Search & Destroy: Sun Ra

The only jazz record that ever seemed too freaky was Dave Holland's Conference of the Birds---not the gentle title track, of course (which was even covered by a band I roomed with, who played what was then called "The New Acoustic Music," like Oregon, various students of Fahey-Kottke-Lang, that first Grisman Quintet LP). And not the cute "Q&A"---but otherwise, Braxton times Rives=OMG! Despite enjoying both guys/ own records as leaders (also Rivers on Miles Davis Heard Round The World). Usually, if I got lost for a second, just listen to the drummer, but didn't work here---nothing against Altschul; I even liked Circle, his group w Chick Corea, and I'm usually meh on post-Miles Corea. But I finally gave up, put it away for a few decades, tried again, and immediately loved the whole thing.

Wikipedia:
Holland's compositions for the album had been performed at a New York City concert by a group including Randy Brecker on trumpet, Michael Brecker on tenor sax, Ralph Towner on guitar, Holland on bass, and Barry Altschul on percussion; "Braxton and Rivers, however, were chosen for the recording as better able to respond to the opportunist disjunctions offered within Holland's compositions."(No lie, Max Harrison!)
... Stuart Nicholson writes: "Conference of the Birds emerged as a definitive statement of swinging free expression. It was, in essence, a return to the rugged discipline of early 1960s free improvising by working off melodic foundations using the 'time, no changes' principle to achieve greater control over that elusive quarry, freedom."

is it too late to disown him?

eh she's got pretty good taste so far -- this is her favorite record currently
https://igcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t51.2885-15/11101966_1621360338077261_1996988635_n.jpg

"all the music with no words!"

haha THIS why do kids require narrative all the time!

Tylerw that is an amazing photo

haha, yeah i like that they both have bedhead. only one of them is totally hung over though.

yeah the narrative thing -- it might have something to with not quite understanding how music is made, like recognizing instruments, etc (though she's kind of getting there with that). the voice/singing is something to latch on to because she can sing and she knows where that's coming from.

this is maybe for another thread but yeah I had this, well idk if it was an "argument" really, but my daughter was complaining about something I was playing that didn't have words (Chet Baker maybe?) because "what's the point?" Good question! But what's the point of any music really... I guess in her mind the point of music is to relay an idea or a concrete feeling or a story, and she doesn't get how abstract/non-literal music can do that. She does like "Rhapsody in Blue" so there's hope...

(she is also cool w Sun Ra btw - because he is FROM SATURN)

ok, she gets a pass for nilsson schmilsson :)

Ha I have a picture of myself from roughly the same age with my Popeye soundtrack! Kids love Nilsson.

I first heard Ra when there was a wave of ESP (?) reissues and the promos were sitting in the bin of freebies at the store where I worked. I took all of them, gave a few to my friend Rebecca and kept a few, can't remember which. The feeling that something isn't as far out/incomprehensible as I thought it would be is also v familiar. I thought that about jazz, metal, everything.

Search!!

Gilles Peterson's Sun Ra compilation is out on Strut at the end of the month. Looking forward to it, the Marshall Allen volume on the same label was pretty great.

my brother hooked me up w/ a bunch of sun ra records a few weeks ago

he's always been kind of a blind spot for me, all i had before was "heliocentric worlds vol 1" which is okay but i never understood why it was always heralded as the best

here is what he gave me:

on jupiter
cosmos
sleeping beauty
strange celestial road
cosmic tones for mental therapy / art forms of dimensions tomorrow
live in cleveland
lanquidity
my brother the wind vol 2

first tune off lanquidity is satisfying a search i've been on for a long while

heliocentric worlds is "heralded as the best" by people who like raw free jazz ... personally, i prefer just about every one of the ones you listed to it (w/ the exception of "live in cleveland" ... never heard it)

yeah I only know the Cosmic Tones/Art Forms twofer, SCR, and Lanquidity. I think SCR is a compilation on Blast First?

Haven't heard a couple of those (never heard of the Cleveland thing...what year is it from?). Cosmic Tones/Art Forms is one of my favorites of his, sounds decades ahead of its time.

listened to the first track off "live in cleveland" (1975 btw) this morning and the sound quality isn't great at all unfortunately but it's a pretty amazing black gospel chant about the "astro nation of the united world" w/ an underlying funk groove

I'll have to check that out; thanks for that info.

Sound quality is definitely an issue on some live Ra stuff. Most of the Transparency sets sound fine (Detroit 1980-81 residency, All-Stars 1983 set), but some are disappointing (a set with an inaudible Milford Graves supposedly in the lineup).

to be honest with you i hardly ever listen to any of his nyc stuff. i like free jazz, but i just don't think "heliocentric worlds" is up there with, say, "ghosts".

"springtime again" from sleeping beauty is amazing wow

I really like that space funk electric thing he was doing from tghe late 70s to the early 80s including Sleeping Beauty, Lanquididty and Strange Celestial Road. Tghough I think he was still heavily revisiting the late 40s stuff at the same time on different lps which can also be enjoyable.
But I think it was that deep space funk stuff that is my favourite and may be what most people who are more familiar with the myth than the actual catalogue may be yearning for when they want to explore his work. Could be worng about that 2nd bit. Are people actually looking for the heavily discordant stuff that I find less satisfactory?

may be what most people who are more familiar with the myth than the actual catalogue may be yearning for when they want to explore his work. Could be worng about that 2nd bit. Are people actually looking for the heavily discordant stuff that I find less satisfactory?

rings true to me, i was certainly not looking for heavy discordant raw free jazz and never really felt pulled into heliocentric worlds. i have a lot of noisy raw free jazz already and i'm rarely in the mood for it

Are people actually looking for the heavily discordant stuff that I find less satisfactory?

I am, and the Transparency series suggests many others are, as well. He arranged and orchestrated like no other; as much as I love Lanquidity, it's not the ideal showcase for many of his (or his Arkestra's) strengths.

I try to seek out anything that might approach The Magic City in its majesty...also always hunting for spacious, tape-delay/reverb-heavy things like Cosmic Tones/Art Forms and When Angels Speak Of Love.

On Jupiter, Sleeping Beauty, Strange Celestial Road, and Lanquidity are all of a piece to my ears - Art Yard reissues of this late 70s sorta r&b/space funk period are quite good imo. I agree that this is probably the most inviting/appealing period of his work to non-jazz/free-jazz heads, structurally and harmonically you get a lot of stuff that has a drifting, pleasant quality to it, without a ton of dissonant wailing (although that does pop up). Cosmos I don't have although it's on my want list, and given that's from the same period I would assume it's similar ...?

cosmic tones for mental therapy - this is way earlier obviously and more in line with the kind of free jazz colliding with exotica he was focusing on

I don't have "live in cleveland" or "my brother the wind vol 2"

I do recommend the recent "Space is the Place - Original Soundtrack" reissue from Sutro Park, which is much different from the "Space is the Place" album proper, and is composed of music used in the actual film. It has a preponderance of my favorite Ra elements - lots of chants/vocals, lots of synth-heavy stuff, and it swings

I don't have "live in cleveland" or "my brother the wind vol 2"

I highly recommend My Brother The Wind Vol 2; half is relatively straight-ahead organ-driven work, and the other half is early (possibly his first) solo synthesizer pieces.

"cosmos" is one of his top 5 imo

my brother the wind vol 2 another yes yes vote from me

'Otherness Blue' and 'Somebody Else's World' are totally great. Top June Tyson moments.

really enjoying two of the quartet albums, "new steps" and "other voices, other blues" from 1978 and I think reissued a couple years ago. Great sax playing by john gilmore. never heard of him before.
I can already tell these are going to be with me for a while.

never heard of him before.

have you never listened to Sun Ra before? Gilmore's on p much everything.

I try periodically try to get into Sun Ra, but it often sounds a little cluttered to me. I don't hate it. It just hasn't clicked for me yet.

his catalog is massive and highly varied obviously but I'd say his late 70s period is a great entry point in general

Brian Eno ‏@dark_shark 59m59 minutes ago
Sun Ra: Live at Stache’s, Columbus, Ohio, January 5, 1985 #mp3 #Arkestra #MarshallAllen http://tinyurl.com/hf75yyf

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnH8QG8UEAAn581.jpg:large

Destroy - "It's After the End of the World". I just picked this up for twenty bucks and it's a total rip-off. There's no line-up listed, so I have no way of knowing which tracks Alan Silva is supposedly on. I can't even hear Sun Ra on the first fifteen minutes. The first set has a very generic BYG feel, it could be Don Cherry or Archie Shepp or even the Art Ensemble. The second set has a startling five minute synth solo that sounds like Ra is playing a white noise generator but that's about all there is to recommend it.

― vahid (vahid), Thursday, April 24, 2003 10:37 PM (13 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think this is actually the single disc version of the set taht somebody was asking about at the beginning of the thread and somebody else said was Nuits de Fondation Maecht. I have the Double disc version known as Black Myth/Out in Space.
I haven't listened to it in a while and think it was pretty difficult listening in places but o9ver all pretty good.

My friend John just sent this research update from Brussels (he liked the xpost Marshall Allen-selected In the Orbit of Ra better than the Art Yard anthologies he mentions, but thought they were all somewhat lacking in range)(I especially wanna check that 2-CD version of Disco 3000):

As an antidote or counterbalance to the tastefully selected, beautifully remastered, but arguably overly genteel anthologies on Art Yard, today I went to the OTHER library and borrowed The Solar-Myth Approach vol. 1 & 2, which I'd never heard before, and which to my ears is kind of a continuation of the Heliocentric Worlds material while not quite reaching the degree of outness of Nuits De La Fondation Maeght vols. 1 & 2.
For the more "advanced material" reissued by Art Yard, there's the 2-CD reissue of Disco 3000, with the entire Milan concert, and Media Dreams with the same lineup minus June Tyson, which was also recorded on the same trip to Italy. Both of these are worth hearing because of the creativity & ingenuity they all demonstrate in the stripped-down quartet format -- e.g. no drummer on the trip so percussion duties are split between John Gilmore on drums and Sun Ra operating a drum machine.

One heavy-duty reissue, also on Art Yard, is the 2-CD version of The Paris Tapes: Live at le Theatre du Chatelet 1971, where the Arkestra comprises 22 people not including the dancers.

I give Art Yard a lot of credit for making it a point to re-release that whole late-70s series like Landquidity, On Jupiter, and especially Sleeping Beauty.

Among the recordings of previously unreleased material that have come out in the last decade, don't overlook the ones on the Transparency label which, contrary to their name, offer next to ZERO information/documentation (at least on the couple that I own).

This page offers a useful overview:
The Sun Ra Arkestra https://www.discogs.com/artist/2219395-The-Sun-Ra-Arkestra?sort=year%2Casc&limit=250&page=1

I love the Media Dreams and Disco 3000 reissues, good stuff

Modern Harmonic to Release Sun Ra's Live Triple LP/Double CD

‘At the Inter-Media Arts’, New York 1991

Triple Slabs of Interplanetary Perfection Available in Limited Pressing on

Record Store Day’s Black Friday, November 25th

Previously Unreleased, From His Archives

A stunning live Sun Ra event, recorded at the Inter-Media Arts Center in New York, April 20, 1991 will be available on Record Store Day's Black Friday event on November 25th. This concert was just two years before Ra’s “earthly departure” – and his keyboard work was amazingly strident and vibrant here. Modern Harmonic presents the tracks for the first time, they are previously unreleased! The Arkestra was in perfect form; this special night also showcased the Arkestra’s vocal magnificence with selections and sections powerfully performed by June Tyson, Michael Ray, T.C. Carney, James Jacson, and John Gilmore. Rarely will you hear the Arkestra with such clarity! Many Sun Ra releases were derived from live performances, but seldom did they have the quality or sonic-punch of this recording. The venerable NYC radio station WNYC were present to record, perfectly capturing the stellar performances.

Check out some music here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLKoSyqmgc8

Modern Harmonic is celebrating this magical evening by releasing the complete performance across three premium RTI LP pressings – or on two compact discs – with both configurations packaged in stunning, tri-fold chipboard jackets. The limited edition release also features extensive liners by noted jazz writer Howard Mandel, and is wrapped in a gorgeous design by legendary album-art icon, Jim Flora.

Triple LP pressed on HQ RTI vinyl and double CD, both with extensive liners.

The body and the spirit are not always one. While Herman “Sonny” Blount’s body was born on May 22, 1914, in Birmingham, Alabama, his spirit originated on Saturn a few years later. Around the age of twenty-two, Blount had a transformative experience during a deep religious meditation: “My whole body changed into something else. And I went up... I wasn't in human form. I landed on a planet that I identified as Saturn. They teleported me and I was down on stage with them. I would speak [through music], and the world would listen. That's what they told me.” Blount emerged from this encounter determined to fulfill their prophecy. Rechristening himself Le Sony'r Ra, he began a decades-long quest to write and play ever-more adventurous music. Blending elements of bebop, modal jazz, free improvisation, and unclassifiable, otherworldly sounds, Sun Ra built one of the most challenging and innovative recorded catalogs in music history.

Modern Harmonic Records: www.modernharmonic.com

nice

S: Other Voices of There, Strange Strings, Heliocentric, The Magic City, Space Is The Place, and go see the currently touring version of The Arkestra (it's a lot of fun)

D: nah

do u mean "Other Planes Of There"? that one's in my "to listen" pile!

re-watched a Joyful Noise, required some spiritual succor

er rewatched it last night because I required some spiritual succor

Missed the Arkestra the other night in DC, but Instagram videos from it looked good. 92-year-old Marshall Allen still at it on sax.

re the new singles collection:
https://daily.bandcamp.com/2016/11/21/sun-ra-feature/

Clips w that article are pretty sweet

There's so much understated genius in this. I don't care what anybody says. (Not that I've ever run across anyone saying anything negative about it, but just in case.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS5u5TU00vM

"out there a minute" was one of the first ra records i heard; an uncle had a copy of the LP (missing "next stop mars" from the CD). it's still one of the ra records i go back to; the stuff on it is among my favorite of his new york stuff (i don't listen to the heliocentric worlds/magic city/atlantis stuff hardly at all).

Out There a Minute was the first Sun Ra album I ever bought and it remains my favorite. (I had heard a fair amount on the radio and seen Sun Ra live at least a few times by the time I bought it.)

https://twitter.com/franckbiyong1/status/816911233400053760