S/D Peter Brotzmann

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
so i just d/led a few albums by the guy, namely the new release FMP130 on atavistic. dear lord. it seems to be along the same lines of borbetomagus, yet more jazz structures than noise (keep in mind i have no freggin' idea what i'm talking about, but this seems to be what my ears are telling me.) does anyone have suggestions on what to seek out? has anyone heard the new album?

brock (brock), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 02:49 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm no authority myself, but "machine gun" is the classic brotz release. hyper-intense skronk that could possibly rend the flesh from your bones. it's an experience.

Jay Kirsch (Jay Kirsch), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 03:26 (eighteen years ago) link

machine gun seconded. hans bennink. o my. imagine if fire music had been fueled by vodka and fierce german humour.

gaz (gaz), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 03:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Machine Gun, Balls, Couscous de la Marquesse. FMP130 is a good place to start too.

hstencil, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 04:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Thirded, even. Machine Gun is just classic.

Atavistic has rereleased various records from the same period, and the reviews have been favorable to them as well.

The first Last Exit record is swell (c. mid 80s), and worthy of attention. (Bill Laswell, Ronald Shannon Jackson, and I believe Sonny Sharrock make up the rest of the band.)

Joshua Houk (chascarrillo), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 04:54 (eighteen years ago) link

I like his live album Fuck De Boere, also excellent. I think it was recorded in 1970.

ham on rye (ham on rye), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 07:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Peter Brotzmann: Already started, need more!

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 07:55 (eighteen years ago) link

You need to get 'For adolphe sax', 'Nipples' and the follow up of unreleased material 'More nipples'. 'Fuck de Boere' is another great piece of group improv but it also has a live version of 'machine gun'.

I also have his 'no nothing' solo rec and '3 points in a mountain' is also pretty varied, not a blow out: has bennik and misha mengelberg (sp?) in it.

I have to get FMP130 one of these days but its just been released.

Has anyone heard him playing with Carla Bley? It sounds pretty funny from what I've heard abt it but i think that has the earliest Brotzmann on tape.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 08:03 (eighteen years ago) link

''Weirdly I have only ever seen Brotzmann live the once - back in '79 at the Third Eye Centre in Glasgow, with his trio featuring Harry Miller and Louis Moholo.''

since then I have heard a few recs with harry miller/moholo as the rhythm section and they were pretty special so hopefully they'll reish that trio rec they made with brotzmann.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 08:08 (eighteen years ago) link

I have lots of Brotz. Aside from the stuff mentioned already, good ones include: Berlin '71, which features him with Bennink on drums, Fred Van Hove on piano and Albert Mangelsdorff on trombone (this is a 2-CD set which incorporates the above-mentioned Couscous de la Marquesse and two other albums); and the recent releases Nothung (with William Parker on bass and Michael Wertmuller on drums) and The Cooler Suite (with Thomas Borgmann on second sax, Parker on bass again and Rashid Bakr on drums).

Excellent Last Exit discs include the first one, Headfirst Into The Flames and Cassette Recordings 87 (also sold under the name From The Board).

Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 09:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Check out some of the Die Like a Dog stuff -- Peter Brotzmann (clarinet/sax), Toshinori Kondo or Roy Campbell (trumpet), William Parker (bass), and Hamid Drake (percussion). Their New York show earlier this year as a trio (sans trumpet) was amazing.

All the stuff I've heard with Bennink, van Hove, et al. is great; I tend to reach for _FdB_ more than any of the others for some inexplicable reason.

The _Shadows_ album with Keji Haino and Shoji Hano is a pretty wild ride as well.

Rokovoko (Rokovoko), Wednesday, 27 August 2003 12:40 (eighteen years ago) link


i like fmp130 the best. the machine gun and for adolphe sax stuff is brutally amazing... i just tend to dig fmp130 more cause it's a little more varied in a sense. those others are almost "required listening" though.

?
m.

msp, Wednesday, 27 August 2003 13:07 (eighteen years ago) link

five years pass...

PB minus TWO HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Full Metal Slanket (Oilyrags), Thursday, 30 April 2009 22:54 (twelve years ago) link

ten months pass...

Saw him last night. They were giving out cotton wool, behind the bar, for people who were finding it too loud! Jazz, eh?

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 March 2010 10:15 (eleven years ago) link

It's standard practice to give out earplugs at rock concerts in mainland Europe, but that's the first time I've heard of it being done in the UK or at a jazz gig. I can understand why they did it, though. This Hairy Bones quartet is Brötzmann's most intense and unforgiving configuration at the moment. When I saw them last year in Vienna there was, unusually for Brötzmann, no interval. Just a savage 90-minute squall of sound.

anagram, Thursday, 25 March 2010 10:31 (eleven years ago) link

Yah, we lucked out, it was supposed to be two different gigs, 10 quid each, but I assume they couldn't sell enough tickets so instead it became a 3 hour gig with a 1 hour interval

The Oort Locker (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 March 2010 10:35 (eleven years ago) link

six years pass...

Brotzmann is on fire recently, his Full Blast trio album Risc and the album with Portuguese band Black Bombain are both brilliant imo.

calzino, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 12:28 (four years ago) link

Yeah, the Black Bombaim album is great. I haven't heard Risc yet, but I like Full Blast a lot.

Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 13:11 (four years ago) link

oops Black Bombainm even.

I've not heard any other Full Blast albums to compare it with, but I will definitely be seeking them out because it is glorious.

calzino, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 14:07 (four years ago) link

If you can find the version of their album Black Hole that's a 2CD set with a bonus live disc, grab it.

Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 14:09 (four years ago) link

I saw him earlier this yr, and while may have hung back slightly a few times (he did admittedly play two set w/ two different group that night) when he hit it, he still hit it hard.

In fact the first twenty minutes or so of his set with Steve Noble/John Edwards/Jason Adasiewicz was close being about the very best improvised music I have ever heard.

He's also played a set with Heather Leigh where he uncorked a brief flurry of notes, so fluid and pretty and smooth that I was dumbstruck.

Dude is the best. The best.

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 16:55 (four years ago) link

Glad to finally get a cd of Iron Path by Last Exit over the last year. Do love that lp. Would love more like that.

Do love PB's son Caspar's Massaker especially Home too.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 16:58 (four years ago) link

I haven't seen him live in at least 15 years—one of the shows I saw was recorded, and the other was a Die Like A Dog set at Tonic with Roy Campbell subbing in for Toshinori Kondo. I need to see him live again if/when he ever comes back to NYC. Seems like he mostly tours the middle of the country these days.

Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 17:13 (four years ago) link

i seriously debated going to philly for the brotzmann/heather leigh set, lack of nyc shows was a huge drag

totally agree on the black bombaim album, it rules

adam, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 17:51 (four years ago) link

I drove from Mpls to Chicago to see him, in part cuz I really wanted to see the duo set Heather Leigh, I love that record and it was totally worth it.

chr1sb3singer, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 18:50 (four years ago) link

three weeks pass...

just picked up born broke the other day, brotzmann + uuskyla, it's awesome, i was very impressed. i haven't listened to much brotzmann since never too late but always too early w/ william parker & hamid drake. on second disc of born broke he gets almost lyrical at times

marcos, Friday, 21 October 2016 14:52 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

Fantastic color footage of the Brötzmann/Van Hove/Bennink trio on German TV. The performance is from 1974, but it was broadcast much later (I can tell 'cause the announcer talks about Last Exit during the intro, so it's gotta be from at least 1986 or '87).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1T-Pxkp6SY

Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Tuesday, 22 November 2016 21:06 (four years ago) link

whoa - thanks for this!!

Wimmels, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 03:02 (four years ago) link

"Machine Gun" is one of my go-to things to freak people out. "Hey, have you ever heard this?" [Everyone runs screaming from the room.] I once listened to the whole thing while riding the subway, it was surreal.

birthday party, cheesecake, jelly beans, boom (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, 23 November 2016 05:29 (four years ago) link

thank you

billstevejim, Wednesday, 23 November 2016 07:25 (four years ago) link

Brilliant! I have been in love with his Die Like a Dog Quartet a lot this year. I could have sworn the German presenter says something about Mahler in the intro.

calzino, Thursday, 24 November 2016 08:04 (four years ago) link

... Gustav or Horst?

The Doug Walters of Crime (Tom D.), Thursday, 24 November 2016 08:12 (four years ago) link

dunno, but much prefer Gustav.

calzino, Thursday, 24 November 2016 08:16 (four years ago) link

This was broadcast a couple of months ago and I saw it completely at random -- he mentions Last Exit because they also showed a Last Exit gig directly afterwards.

Three Word Username, Thursday, 24 November 2016 08:17 (four years ago) link

Mahler = painter. He's quoting Brötzmann about bringing a painter's sensibility to his music.

Three Word Username, Thursday, 24 November 2016 08:23 (four years ago) link

That's Maler, ofc.

heaven parker (anagram), Thursday, 24 November 2016 09:16 (four years ago) link

Ja ja, stimmt genau, Herr Professor. Gleiche Aussprache, wollte nur klarstellen und nicht angeben.

Three Word Username, Thursday, 24 November 2016 09:32 (four years ago) link

"Machine Gun" is one of my go-to things to freak people out. "Hey, have you ever heard this?" [Everyone runs screaming from the room.] I once listened to the whole thing while riding the subway, it was surreal.

― birthday party, cheesecake, jelly beans, boom (tipsy mothra), Wednesday, November 23, 2016 12:29 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Interesting. It is because of Machine Gun and Nipples that I'd profoundly misunderstood this man's work for many years. In my early days of discovering free jazz (a backward trajectory probably common to a lot of people my age - I had Dave Burrell's Echo on my want list before I'd heard Archie Shepp) and trying to hear the most 'out' stuff, I'd sorta written PB off as a macho, overblowing fire music guy. It really wasn't until seeing him play live, and then subsequently hearing his records with people like Louis Moholo, that I really began to understand how nuanced a player he really is.

I still don't totally 'get' guys like Mats Gustafsson, Paal Nilssen-Love (both of whom I have seen play), though I respect their, err, approach. But Brotzmann is a guy I began getting pretty obsessed with after realizing there was a lot more to him than just firepower.

Wimmels, Thursday, 24 November 2016 13:55 (four years ago) link

I still don't totally 'get' guys like Mats Gustafsson, Paal Nilssen-Love (both of whom I have seen play), though I respect their, err, approach.

I like The Thing, but I view them as kind of a free jazz outgrowth of guys like Red Prysock - there was a compilation series called Honkers and Bar Walkers on Delmark some years back that compiled a whole bunch of 1950s R&B-meets-hard bop stuff, with fairly basic rhythms and big, overblown sax solos, and that's where I trace The Thing back to. Their willingness to cover garage-rock songs only strengthens the link IMO. That said, Nilssen-Love's Large Unit is pretty interesting; I recommend their 3CD box, which I reviewed in 2014.

Don Van Gorp, midwest regional VP, marketing (誤訳侮辱), Thursday, 24 November 2016 18:58 (four years ago) link

this kind of music is so much better live than on record that the records, in the digital age, feel kind of sad to me. like, they existed to help generate some cash flow for the musicians who made them, and to give them something to sell at gigs, and, often & most importantly imo, to document things that had happened in the live arena which would not happen again and which represented growth-points/advances. I don't know, but I'd imagine, that when the bottom dropped out of physical sales, it really really dropped out for free jazz physical sales. but anyway if you happen to live in a town where you can see free improv often enough that it becomes familiar, that's an experience worth having -- I was in Chicago in '95/'96 seeing Vandermark & Gustafsson when he came through & others and the live experience felt like The Actual Deal and the recordings more like souvenirs.

though she denies it to the press, (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 24 November 2016 23:15 (four years ago) link

This is otm. Especially since a lot of great 90s free jazz albums--and reissues--were CD only (I'm thinking of labels like Eremite) and remain so to this day. I'm guessing there aren't a lot of people scouring the racks for Sabir Mateen and Susie Ibarra CDs now, which is a shame.

"Souvenirs" is exactly the right word, and I've certainly bought CDs that ended up as such. I remember coming home from one of the Vision festivals with handfuls of latter-day Alan Silva and Raphe Malik CDs, and I can't say I spent a lot of time listening to any of them. On the other hand, those gigs I witnessed are burned permanently into my brain.

Wimmels, Friday, 25 November 2016 15:38 (four years ago) link

four months pass...
one year passes...

Well the Brotzmann/Haino show tonight in SF was a hell of a thing.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 9 August 2018 06:30 (three years ago) link

hey did you see any other librarians there? a librarian friend of mine was there.

the late great, Thursday, 9 August 2018 06:54 (three years ago) link

he was very excited to be there and i am not a big fan of either but i was kinda jealous because it sounds like quite an experience

was it like just endless intense free skronk blowing?

the late great, Thursday, 9 August 2018 06:56 (three years ago) link

Saw them together a few years ago - Haino definitely wasn't playing at his normal peak volume, and at times they were almost like a mutant version of Sonny Rollins/Jim Hall - that's to say the whole thing was jazzier than I maybe would've expected. Still plenty fierce in places of course, w/ Brotz more than holding his own.

Ward Fowler, Thursday, 9 August 2018 10:42 (three years ago) link

two years pass...

Happy 80th to the Brotz! (Tomorrow, actually.) I wrote something.

but also fuck you (unperson), Friday, 5 March 2021 14:29 (six months ago) link

Great piece, HB Brotz, thank you for yr huge and endlessly rewarding discography

chr1sb3singer, Friday, 5 March 2021 15:30 (six months ago) link

Speaking of which I am just now getting around to this trio with Maâlem Moukhtar Gania & Hamid Drake that came out last yr and is just great

https://idischidiangelica.bandcamp.com/album/the-catch-of-a-ghost

chr1sb3singer, Friday, 5 March 2021 16:43 (six months ago) link

Holy shit I didn't know that existed somehow, the WELS concert is a desert island disc for me, I'm losing it.

it's like edging for your mind (the table is the table), Friday, 5 March 2021 23:53 (six months ago) link

six months pass...

So...this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_vruhZkAO4

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 9 September 2021 17:26 (one week ago) link

Making fun of free jazz like it's 1965. (To be fair, it's probably one of the larger audiences Brotzmann has reached.)

Sounds like Brotz (per his exchange with Heather Leigh that she posted) doesn't really care, which isn't a big shock.

Like I mentioned on Twitter, if this same thing had happened when I was in high school and Jay Leno played a bit of "Nipples" and said it was awful, I would have hit the ground running the next morning trying to find a copy and I'm sure kids are doing the same thing today.

And for the record I hated Fallon before it was cool

chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 9 September 2021 17:47 (one week ago) link

I'm just surprised that Questlove sat there and chuckled along without saying anything, that dude knows Brotzmann's legacy/collabs for sure.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 9 September 2021 17:49 (one week ago) link

The jazz "jokes" would have been dated during the Steve Allen-era Tonight Show

chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 9 September 2021 17:53 (one week ago) link

Re: Questlove, not entire surprised as it reminds me of why Wynton Marsalis quit The Tonight Show - he got sick of having to suck up to a smarmy ass wipe like Leno. Fallon is basically Leno-lite.

birdistheword, Thursday, 9 September 2021 17:56 (one week ago) link

*entirely

birdistheword, Thursday, 9 September 2021 17:56 (one week ago) link

Yeah, I guess it's not his place to push back on the boss' stupid bits like that, just bugs me knowing he has a much deeper appreciation for music than that dumb skit allows for.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 9 September 2021 18:06 (one week ago) link

if this same thing had happened when I was in high school and Jay Leno played a bit of "Nipples" and said it was awful, I would have hit the ground running the next morning trying to find a copy and I'm sure kids are doing the same thing today.

I doubt very much that they are

Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 9 September 2021 19:11 (one week ago) link

You don't think there are weird kids these days who like dissonant music? There might not be a lot of them but I'm positive they exist.

chr1sb3singer, Thursday, 9 September 2021 19:23 (one week ago) link

I'm just going to guess that weird kids who like dissonant music aren't watching Fallon at all now that shit like that is easily avoided (until something like goes viral, that is).

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 9 September 2021 19:28 (one week ago) link

The problem is that now social media is full of cranky middle-aged fuckers typing in all caps about HOW DARE JIMMY FALLON MAKE FUN OF THE GREAT PETER BRÖTZMANN and nothing makes a teenager/young person LESS likely to investigate something than seeing an old person rave about it.

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 9 September 2021 19:35 (one week ago) link

The funny thing to me is I literally played Machine Gun for my older kid just last week. He dug it.

The problem is that now social media is full of cranky middle-aged fuckers typing in all caps about HOW DARE JIMMY FALLON MAKE FUN OF THE GREAT PETER BRÖTZMANN and nothing makes a teenager/young person LESS likely to investigate something than seeing an old person rave about it.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, September 9, 2021 3:35 PM (twenty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes clearly it is the jazz police who are the problem

Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 9 September 2021 20:06 (one week ago) link

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen and I'm placing you all under arrest

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 9 September 2021 20:24 (one week ago) link

Brotzmann feels like a serious outlier among those 4. I suspect Questlove and Dumbass Fallon are probably both fans, testing the waters to see if they could get away with playing difficult free jazz on NBC in 2021. They've become jaded with the monotony of their depressingly bleak programming.

billstevejim, Thursday, 9 September 2021 21:14 (one week ago) link

Heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba Heyba heeba hobba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba

https://www.stereogum.com/2119421/jimmy-fallon-did-a-bit-about-a-song-by-obscure-slint-offshoot-king-kong/news/

Heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba Heyba heeba hobba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba

the 45-year-old gaz coomber (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 9 September 2021 21:24 (one week ago) link

Schwarzwaldfahrt inspired my neighbors to call the jazz police on one occasion.

The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse), Thursday, 9 September 2021 21:31 (one week ago) link

Fallon was so mean about like, literal children. What a prick. Why would you do that? The whole bit is mean-spirited and shitty.

ian, Thursday, 9 September 2021 22:59 (one week ago) link

Schwarzwaldfahrt inspired my neighbors to call the jazz police on one occasion.

was wondering when this fab record was gonna get a mention

sleeve, Thursday, 9 September 2021 22:59 (one week ago) link

^^^ sickest jams

ian, Thursday, 9 September 2021 23:07 (one week ago) link

The whole bit is mean-spirited and shitty.

otm, I've never watched the show beyond the occasional viral musical clip, but that is a seriously low-rent segment, just dunking on musicians. wtf. I thought his whole shtick was that he was like an inoffensive nice guy

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Friday, 10 September 2021 00:04 (one week ago) link

idk, man, it's a cheap bit but then again most Fallon things kind of revel in cheap emotions (nostalgic recognition, juxtaposition, epic baconness, applause) that aren't exactly "jokes" per se.

the 45-year-old gaz coomber (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 September 2021 00:40 (one week ago) link

Heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba Heyba heeba hobba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba

Heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba Heyba heeba hobba hooba hooba hobba
Heyba heyba heyba hooba hooba hobba

the 45-year-old gaz coomber (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 September 2021 00:40 (one week ago) link

whichever boomer hipster on Fallon's staff that got King Kong and Brotzmann played is definitely responsible for getting a Mark Prindle CDR on the segment a few months back

I Occasionally Post on ILX (2x5), Friday, 10 September 2021 13:52 (one week ago) link

Are boomers aware of Mark Prindle? He's in his 40s.

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 10 September 2021 14:19 (one week ago) link

'The Jazz Police' was the original title for 'The Dream of the Blue Turtles' iirc

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 10 September 2021 14:27 (one week ago) link

Thanks ums

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Friday, 10 September 2021 16:24 (one week ago) link

hooba

the 45-year-old gaz coomber (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 10 September 2021 16:34 (one week ago) link

'The Jazz Police' was the original title for 'The Dream of the Blue Turtles' iirc

Wasn't that a Cheap Trick song?

birdistheword, Friday, 10 September 2021 18:31 (one week ago) link

Colbert really put a lot more effort into the same kind of bit: https://www.cc.com/video/o1qorx/the-colbert-report-who-s-not-honoring-me-now-the-macarthur-foundation

JoeStork, Friday, 10 September 2021 18:37 (one week ago) link

Baby hooba hooba
see my little tartie
we'll be talking later we've got plans for you now

I'm a sovereign jazz citizen (the table is the table), Friday, 10 September 2021 18:47 (one week ago) link

'The Jazz Police' was the original title for 'The Dream of the Blue Turtles' iirc

Wasn't that a Cheap Trick song?

― birdistheword, Friday, September 10, 2021 7:31 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

It was a jazzy album Sting made after he left The Police, I was making a crap joke, sorry.

edited to reflect developments which occurred (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 10 September 2021 19:56 (one week ago) link

that is the one weak track on Leonard Cohen's "I'm Your Man" --

sarahell, Friday, 10 September 2021 19:57 (one week ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.