smashing pumpkins -- pisces iscariot: classic or dud?

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_pet sounds_ for the 90s?

sundar subramanian, Sunday, 10 September 2000 00:00 (eighteen years ago) Permalink

Oh God, Pisces Iscariot.

I reviewed PI for my student newspaper, a joint review with a girl who had bloody apalling taste in music but who I rather fancied. So I'm ashamed to admit to my FT readership that I let my journalistic integrity be UTTERLY COMPROMISED and I wrote not only some faintly favourable things about it but I also did it in the floweriest prose I could muster, which impressed her marginally but not (thankfully I think now) enough. The harsh lesson one of music journalism was learned: nobody will cop off with you because of what you write in a pop review.

Anyway, I vaguely remember this B-Sides collection from the Official Worst Band In The World (blame the readers, not I) being much less bad than their actual albums but still a bit of an interest vacuum. DUD.

Tom, Sunday, 10 September 2000 00:00 (eighteen years ago) Permalink

Their B-sides collection? A _Pet Sounds_ for the nineties? *deeply confused* I'm an insane hyperfan for them...but it's a very strange comparison to make.

That said, it's fragmented but wonderful and a half. ;-)

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 10 September 2000 00:00 (eighteen years ago) Permalink

Is this question supposed to reflect badly on _Pet Sounds_? :) When I was a Pumpkins fan (never listen to them anymore), I didn't really prefer _Pisces_ over _Siamese Dream_ most of the time. So, whatever that indicates... if I were to go back right now and listen, though, I'd probably prefer _Siamese Dream_ just because it's got the bigger hitz, and thus would trigger more nostalgia (I listened to both a lot, but radio made _Siamese_ less escapable).

Josh, Sunday, 10 September 2000 00:00 (eighteen years ago) Permalink

Not to say that this is where the rot set in, as the rot was always there (in Corgans head) waiting to spread. Nevertheless, if you think its a Pet Sounds for the Nineties you must really hold Pet Sounds in low esteem. Perhaps its a bit like the pet sounds on Pet Sounds. I'm no lover of the Pumpkins, but a B-sides / odds and sods album is surely only interesting as a chronicle of the bands development. If that development is from promising to pompous shite, then I suppose as a case in point of deterioration it might hold some rubbernecking charm.

Pete, Monday, 11 September 2000 00:00 (eighteen years ago) Permalink

well, ok, so the machine demanded i write a message (my real question clearly articulated in the subject line) and i typed what came to mind. a somehwat strange comparison in retrospect, i'm willing to concede. the comparison was re the frail fey heartache evoked by both records.

the stripped-down simplicity of these songs works magnificently, as my main obstacles to liking most sp stuff are the obnoxious guitar leads and arena-rock theatrics (though i just started rediscovering _siamese dream_ so so much for that, maybe). the ballads, which take up at least half the album, nearly reach perfection sometimes: fragile, haunting, Beatlesque in the case of "blew away." corgan's voice hadn't yet deepened to a croak and was still a glorious light, androgynous, temperamental, nuanced, vulnerable instrument. "landslide" almost always choked me up when i was 15. the guitar lines on these tracks are masterful. the primitive rock tunes carry all the immediacy and excitement of the scrawny teenager in the basement who's realized his revenge through rock.

sundar subramanian, Thursday, 14 September 2000 00:00 (eighteen years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
Pet Sounds for the '90s? I'd say it's more like the Soft Parade. The following should clear some more up:

Gish: the You Can Tune a Piano... for the '90s Siamese Dream: the Agent Provocateur for the '90s Mellon Collie: the Tusk for the '90s

Sorry, I haven't heard any Pumpkins post-Mellon. Tangentially, I'm still recovering from a moment years back when I went to listen to the Grunge Beatles/Backbeat disc and was greeted with the opening notes of Cherub Rock. I got Silverfuck instead of Good Golly Miss Molly, and Today instead of Bad Boy. Nice one, Virgin.

Andy, Sunday, 15 October 2000 00:00 (eighteen years ago) Permalink

Sorry for the jumbled text above, but I thought of something else to add -- What's up with them doing Sandoz? I figured Sky Pilot was more up their alley, especially for the double meaning and the drummer's former hobby. "How high can you fly/ You'll never reach the sky..." etc. Goes well with the whole Aeroplane Flies High theme, no?

Andy, Sunday, 15 October 2000 00:00 (eighteen years ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...
Aren't these guys breaking up soon???

Nate Ernst, Thursday, 2 November 2000 01:00 (eighteen years ago) Permalink

two months pass...
Dud, everything post-Gish is a dud. When Bill shaved off his hair he became a whiny bastard and somehow with his hair went the dreamy post- Jane's Addiction sound.

o.munoz, Monday, 15 January 2001 01:00 (eighteen years ago) Permalink

nine months pass...
classic, def. they endured, damnit.

chameleon, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Dud, everything post-Gish is a dud.
You are quite right Mr Munoz. But maybe you exaggerate a bit here. Mellon Collie was something like the Exile on Main Street of the 90s.

alex in mainhattan, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

Listening to the bits of "Tonight, Tonight" that Fox Sports co-opted for their coverage of the MLB playoffs here in the US, I find myself liking the strings and such much better without Billy whinging all over them. This might actually apply to ALL Pun'kin songs.

Smashing Pumpkins: The grunge Limp Bizkit?

David Raposa, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

I find myself liking the strings and such much better without Billy whinging all over them. This might actually apply to ALL Pun'kin songs.
You are spot on there David. The weakest point in their music has always been that whiny voice. SP started as a kind of hard rock band and hard rock bands usually have singers with high-pitch voices. Maybe that is why Corgan sings in that way.

alex in mainhattan, Thursday, 18 October 2001 00:00 (seventeen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
God, this is so totally my favorite Pumpkins album.

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 21 December 2003 04:37 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

two years pass...
oh no doubt the best pumpkins album, the only that breathes...bill'ys ambitions strangled his muse (i'll bet you wish that his muse's ambition was to strangle his vocal chords, but that's neither here nor there) I don't know if Gish is any good because I can't listen to it anymore, but I do know that the songs on Mellon Collie with a few exceptions (Muzzle, Bodies, Stumbleine) tend to crumble into dust with the merest touch. SD had the strongest songs out of all the big albums, but after listening to it for 13 years (Pumpkins used to be my favorite band in high school) I can start to see what haters mean when they say they're all slight variations of the same song.

Maybe I just have a thing for its more lo-fi production style, but Iscariot really seems like the roller coaster ride that Siamese only wishes it was. I mean, Frail and Bedazzled is better than every song on SD except Mayonnaise. It has more spirit, better solos, a catcher melody, (I could go on about the album but I'll choose not to)...Contrary to his own and popular belief Billy was at his best just tossing things off. That's the poignant irony of his Pavement kissoff, Cherub Rock. A little more Indie Rock would have saved the man's soul.

George Lochinski (Destroy A. Monsters), Thursday, 28 September 2006 19:38 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Frail and Bedazzled is better than every song on SD except Mayonnaise Soma.

Best song on Pisces is "Obscured." That percussion sound + Billy's voice at its dreamiest(!).

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Thursday, 28 September 2006 20:10 (twelve years ago) Permalink

But maybe you exaggerate a bit here. Mellon Collie was something like the Exile on Main Street of the 90s

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn (Alfred Soto), Thursday, 28 September 2006 20:40 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Now who's trashing sacred ducks?

I love the Pumpkins but MCIS comes nowhere near anything remotely considered classic. I mean where do the Pumpkins approach Soul Survivor, or Let it Loose, or Tumbling Dice or Torn and Frayed? Nowhere; Billy could not do it, he didn't have the verve.

As far as Soma vs. Mayonnaise, Soma has Billy's best guitar solo anywhere except for Starla (ambition was not good for Billy, but excess....) and the melody's pretty but too blunt. Ditto with the lyrics. Mayonnaise is lighter and the melody is more playful, and to steal from M. Prindle, that squawk that comes in in the middle of the chorus absolutely rules. i'd say Soma was the 2nd best track on SD but shares a little in that sort of ambitious blandness that the whole album suffers from.

You're right about Obscured though. Absolutely angelic track.

George Lochinski (Destroy A. Monsters), Thursday, 28 September 2006 20:53 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Let me get back to everyone on this.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 28 September 2006 21:13 (twelve years ago) Permalink

I don't know what I was on about, considering I've never heard Pet Sounds. Probably still like the album, although the original "Landslide" is better (Pumpkins' > Dixie Chicks' though).

Sundar (sundar), Thursday, 28 September 2006 22:51 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Please do, Ned. Pisces Iscariot is without a doubt classic. Practically this whole album is angelic. Not only brings back good, heartfelt memories but still has a dozen standout tracks. Wonderful.

Gerard (Gerard), Thursday, 28 September 2006 22:59 (twelve years ago) Permalink

Best song on Pisces is "Obscured."

nailed it. i also recal blissfully drifting to sleep everynight for weeks to the "landslide" / "starla" section of the album. i gotta go dig this up.

just a personal, unrelated factoid: my older sister was hanging out with corgan daily, roughly at this time. He signed a copy of 'Pisces..' for me, which is somewhere around here...lucky me.

J. Grizzle (trainsmoke), Thursday, 28 September 2006 23:22 (twelve years ago) Permalink

my boredom has outshined the sun

Fetchboy (Felcher), Friday, 29 September 2006 00:06 (twelve years ago) Permalink

one year passes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPOv3iyy1qo

Curt1s Stephens, Sunday, 23 March 2008 01:15 (eleven years ago) Permalink

sundar has NEVER HEARD pet sounds??????

akm, Sunday, 23 March 2008 02:35 (eleven years ago) Permalink

jesus, gish is alright, sort of catchy in parts, but pretty limited

siamese dream is obviously the most accomplished, lush, captivating thing they ever put out. adore is also pretty moving in parts, and their second best record, i think.

listened to this pisces thing a few times back in the day. sort of alright

Charlie Howard, Monday, 24 March 2008 08:16 (eleven years ago) Permalink

seven months pass...

is this album the good pumpkins (quiet, melancholy, sentimental) or the bad pumpkins (mindless guitar rawk with heavy, forgettable riffs that go nowhere)?

Pantheism F. Mohair (res), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 01:49 (ten years ago) Permalink

good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good good

ban or astroban? (Curt1s Stephens), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:01 (ten years ago) Permalink

yeah this is the only one i've played since like 1996. pretty much classic.

flyover statesman (will), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:19 (ten years ago) Permalink

which songs would you compare the sound to?

Pantheism F. Mohair (res), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:20 (ten years ago) Permalink

it's kind of in its own little world, really - it's all Gish and Siamese era material but it's more varied sonically than either of those albums. If you like the dreamy side of the pumpkins you need this album ("Obscured" is their dreamiest & best song with great sighs from the Corgz, and the heavy rockers are full of psyched-out goodness)

ban or astroban? (Curt1s Stephens), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:24 (ten years ago) Permalink

the dreamy stuff ("33", "1979", "Mayonnaise", "Tonight, Tonight") is best. The worst is crap like "Jellybelly" and all that faceless pseudometal bullshit sthat littered the whole 'Melancholy' album.

Pantheism F. Mohair (res), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:27 (ten years ago) Permalink

i'm awful with song titles, but it's got a bit of the quiet melancholia and guitar rawk -- but I rate the three or four rockers on here above a lot of the ones on SD and what I remember from MC&TIS (Frail & Bedazzled, Pissant, Sandoz)

xxpost

flyover statesman (will), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:30 (ten years ago) Permalink

(but i know what yr talking about wrt forgettable riffs going nowhere)

flyover statesman (will), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:32 (ten years ago) Permalink

this shit couldn't even keep my attention when i was super-into this band, and that was like 13 years ago

Whiney G. Torture Garden (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:33 (ten years ago) Permalink

To me SP is a very good singles band (maybe a couple non-singles like "Mayonnaise"), but everything else is completely disposable. But then I haven't heard this AMAZING ALBUM THAT'S GOING TO CHANGE MY LIFE FOREVER

Pantheism F. Mohair (res), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:37 (ten years ago) Permalink

it's probably not going to change your life forever, but it's the best smashing pumpkins album

ban or astroban? (Curt1s Stephens), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:45 (ten years ago) Permalink

interesting. I remember middling reviews at the time, which is why i never bothered buying it.

Pantheism F. Mohair (res), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 02:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

Did "Eye" ever show up on an album?

rubisco (Abbott), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 03:27 (ten years ago) Permalink

Nope, just the hits album.

I say classic, if only for "Starla", "Obscured", "Frail and Bedazzled" and "La Dolly Vita".

jon /via/ chi 2.0, Tuesday, 4 November 2008 03:44 (ten years ago) Permalink

hey, the 1st thread I ever posted to...:)

absolute classic...pumpkins at their most lo-fi & hookah-woozy. even the RAWKers sound dreamy...Frail & Bedazzled and Hello Kitty Kat are absolute classics...as well as Obscured, Plume, Whir, Starla, La Dolly Vita, Spaced...

After having given it some thought, I kind of see where sundar was going with his initial post. Pet Sounds is a concept album about the innocence of childhood is it not? and the struggle to preserve it. A lot of these songs are about the same thing but updates the context for the grunge era (=world not just perplexing but also hostile). Example: Frail and Bedazzled sounds to my ears like it tells the story of a young boy going through a painful divorce. I don't know if this makes PI peculiar in the Pumpkins' catalogue; preserving one's innocence in a hostile world is pretty much a trademark theme for Corgan's songs.

Whatever. Best Pumpkins album, fer sure.

^ban with extreme prejudice (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 03:57 (ten years ago) Permalink

...a young boy getting divorced from his child bride. now that is some hard-hitting material, bro.

Pantheism F. Mohair (res), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 04:11 (ten years ago) Permalink

LOL yeah, i'm a moron...the divorce is his parents' obv.

^ban with extreme prejudice (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 04:12 (ten years ago) Permalink

hey abbott: they're using 'eye' for the watchmen (?? i think?? i was watching a whole bunch of previews on hulu).

also: curtis' description of PI otm

undiscovered cuntry (Rubyredd), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 04:40 (ten years ago) Permalink

Not "Eye" -- the slow version of "The End is the Beginning" etc.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 4 November 2008 05:42 (ten years ago) Permalink

duh i'm an idiot - for some reason i always get those two songs mixed up

i think 'eye' is on rotten apples?

undiscovered cuntry (Rubyredd), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 06:03 (ten years ago) Permalink

eye is on the lost highway sdtrk, i think

^ban with extreme prejudice (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 4 November 2008 18:46 (ten years ago) Permalink

one month passes...

this is on my top 15 alltime albums list...PI's only flaw = no drown or glynis

Hipster Loser-Loser (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 7 December 2008 21:52 (ten years ago) Permalink

Its definitely worth checking out, there's a lot of great stuff. However, if you were an obsessive back in the 90s, there isn't a whole ton of new material. It's cleaned up and much cripser than the original demos that were floating around (Real Time demos, the WZRD stuff, etc). You've got the "Cinnamn Girl", "Jackie Blue", and "Venus in Furs" covers, cleaned up "By June", "Glynis" (from No Alternative), and other pretty well shared stuff. The only real revelation to my ears was the 15 minute studio demo, "Why Am I So Tired", which sounds great.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 July 2012 18:47 (six years ago) Permalink

Pitchfork's review is, er, smashing.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 July 2012 18:52 (six years ago) Permalink

lol, it is great to see people still stanning for the classic material despite the trainwreck the band is now.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 19 July 2012 18:57 (six years ago) Permalink

I totally need to get this

that one guy (loves laboured breathing), Thursday, 19 July 2012 18:57 (six years ago) Permalink

"Whirl" is the one that most impressed me today.

a regina spektor is haunting europe (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 19 July 2012 19:09 (six years ago) Permalink

It's definitely not up there with Gish, Siamese Dream or Mellon Collie And The Infinite Sadness, but then I wouldn't have ever expected it to be. It's definitely as far from dud as you can possibly get without reaching classic.

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Friday, 20 July 2012 01:35 (six years ago) Permalink

Got my copy earlier in the week, will be giving it all a proper ear this weekend. The cassette demo's good fun to see.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 20 July 2012 01:42 (six years ago) Permalink

bummer there isn't more siamese dream outtake material, like cleaned up versions of some of those demos that leaked a few years ago. the heavier "set the ray to jerry" for example

windjammer voyage (blank), Friday, 20 July 2012 01:45 (six years ago) Permalink

The only real revelation to my ears was the 15 minute studio demo, "Why Am I So Tired", which sounds great.

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, July 19, 2012 6:47 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hasn't this already been released on Earphoria, or is it a different take?

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Friday, 20 July 2012 01:45 (six years ago) Permalink

You know, I'm not sure if its the same or not. That track never played on my copy of Earphoria for some reason, it would always skip from the day I bought it, so I'm not sure I ever heard the full thing.

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 20 July 2012 03:00 (six years ago) Permalink

Liner notes seem to indicate it's the same. Similarly "Slunk" is the Japanese TV performance from said collection as well. Kinda odd that those are thrown in as ringers, I agree.

Just listened to/ripped the cassette demo. Might be my copy but "Jennifer Ever" sounds kinda muddy as does "East" for halfway through, when it suddenly and clearly brightens up for the rest of the tape.

Ned Raggett, Friday, 20 July 2012 03:30 (six years ago) Permalink

That I couldn't confirm either because, as I learned last night, I no longer have a single way in my house to listen to cassettes. Ha. Still love that that was included though!

heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Friday, 20 July 2012 03:51 (six years ago) Permalink

bummer there isn't more siamese dream outtake material, like cleaned up versions of some of those demos that leaked a few years ago. the heavier "set the ray to jerry" for example

In the absence of that

http://thepumpkins.net/music/647-music-quiet-and-other-songs

Ned Raggett, Friday, 20 July 2012 04:54 (six years ago) Permalink

Meantime, as I just posted on the Frogs thread, here's their take on Pumpkins songs from a 1997 rehearsal:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL345D3F4CAFD406A5&feature=edit_ok

Ned Raggett, Friday, 20 July 2012 05:20 (six years ago) Permalink

love that version of Rhinoceros

mississippi joan hart (crüt), Friday, 20 July 2012 05:52 (six years ago) Permalink

yeah that version is great

that one guy (loves laboured breathing), Friday, 20 July 2012 13:40 (six years ago) Permalink

five years pass...

(seventeen years ago)

Erotic Wolf (crüt), Friday, 22 September 2017 04:32 (one year ago) Permalink

is it still your fave?

Karl Malone, Friday, 22 September 2017 04:56 (one year ago) Permalink

yes

Erotic Wolf (crüt), Friday, 22 September 2017 04:57 (one year ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnjegcYZVfs

Erotic Wolf (crüt), Friday, 22 September 2017 04:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Hadn't listened to that song in years and got goosebumps the whole way through. Thanks for the thread bump, Curtis. I'm gonna have to dive back into PI. Starla has my favorite Corgan guitar and Blew Away is maybe James' best song.

Fetchboy, Friday, 22 September 2017 05:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Hello Kitty Kat is an awesome song, so brutal, & it came very close to being on Siamese Dream (in place of or after Quiet iirc). the promo cassettes of SD have Hello Kitty Kat on them, and it's a different mix than the one on PI.

record rules, still stunning what a prolific & consistently great songwriter Billy was in the Pumpkins' prime

flappy bird, Friday, 22 September 2017 05:35 (one year ago) Permalink

xp yeah Blew Away is the only James song that I listen to (somewhat) regularly. The Boy is pretty cool too - here's a sick live version from a Starchildren show from June 1994. it's a lot faster than the one on TAFH: https://archive.org/details/tsp1994-06-18.shn/tsp1994-06-18t04.shn - also there's a pretty sweet cover of Cars. that's a cool show. early version of Here is No Why, too.

flappy bird, Friday, 22 September 2017 05:37 (one year ago) Permalink

Neither classic or dud, but has some stunning must-hear moments on it.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Friday, 22 September 2017 05:51 (one year ago) Permalink

Damn, the outro to Obscured is so gorgeous.

Fetchboy, Friday, 22 September 2017 05:55 (one year ago) Permalink

Ahhh, "Whir"....still gorgeous and the lyrics have meant different things to me as I've gotten older.

Sam Weller, Friday, 22 September 2017 09:39 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, 'Whir' is easily one of my favourites. That and 'Frail and Bedazzled' ...

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 23 September 2017 09:51 (one year ago) Permalink

speaking of which

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bcvnO-rvjA

flappy bird, Sunday, 24 September 2017 03:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Yep still the best one

constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Sunday, 24 September 2017 04:57 (one year ago) Permalink

Yeah, incredible how Billy was not only prolific, but kept hitting the mark with almost every song he wrote in the '90s. At some point the quality control went and he just became prolific.

more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 24 September 2017 05:29 (one year ago) Permalink

even the songs he threw away were brilliant, "Methusela" being the best example.

flappy bird, Sunday, 24 September 2017 12:54 (one year ago) Permalink

one year passes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JufC-dp5Sw

flappy bird, Sunday, 14 April 2019 06:23 (two months ago) Permalink

Cool album IMO

get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Sunday, 14 April 2019 06:42 (two months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Browsing at Amoeba, I came across a sealed copy of the deluxe reissue (2CD / 1DVD) for $18.98, and bought it on a whim. Did I do good?

get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 21:05 (one week ago) Permalink

It's worth the price for 'Frail and Bedazzled' and 'Starla' alone!

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 21:15 (one week ago) Permalink

Did it come with the demo cassette

flappy bird, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 22:25 (one week ago) Permalink

The back cover does list "First ever SP demo reproduced on cassette" among the inclusions...

get your hand outta my pocket universe (morrisp), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 22:33 (one week ago) Permalink

There's a lot of people in the hardcore that really like their very early work from the late '80s, the pre-Gish stuff. I can't really say I'm one of 'em. That early TV appearance where they play a lot of early material is still worth a watch, though, just as a comparison point between then and Gish.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 23:02 (one week ago) Permalink

Although it's kinda sad to compare it to footage of the Arising! tour for a number of reasons. D'arcy's appearance being one of 'em.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 23:03 (one week ago) Permalink

there are some fantastic riffs among the pre-Gish stuff but yeah not much in the way of good entire songs... I like “under your spell” and “there is goes” though. Were those both Marked tunes?

brimstead, Tuesday, 4 June 2019 23:26 (one week ago) Permalink

'There It Goes' isn't too bad. I think the Oceania-era line-up did a one-off performance of that one just for a select couple of people, but I might be misremembering and it may be a completely different song. Look at how young and fresh-faced they all look in that 1988 video, though - even Jimmy - although he's very restrained on the early stuff. D'arcy looks cool (and cute) as hell.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 23:36 (one week ago) Permalink

Fast forward 11 years later...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x20kajCVzTM

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Tuesday, 4 June 2019 23:37 (one week ago) Permalink

Opened it up, the tape is pretty cool-looking... wish I still had a cassette deck

Theodor Adorno, perhaps the greatest philosopher alive today (morrisp), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:02 (one week ago) Permalink

none of them are Marked songs, those can be found elsewhere... I think when Billy started SP he threw everything he had away. I've listened to some of that Marked stuff, it's pretty bad. there are some good songs among the pre-Gish material. definitely There It Goes, She, Under Your Spell, Razor, I Am My End...

flappy bird, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:09 (one week ago) Permalink

Mashed Potatoes remains an extremely fun listen, imo

brimstead, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:20 (one week ago) Permalink

oh, one of the best. "Cinder" is killer, I always wondered where that was recorded, why there's no other documentation of that song, and why an unrelated song was put out on the PI reissue called "Cinder Open" or something. only the Pumpkins would let something like that die as a almost never played live rarity.

flappy bird, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:28 (one week ago) Permalink

'Cinder' has a great riff, if I remember. That's the one where part of it ended up in 'Silverfuck', right? There's few bands out there that inspire me to hear not just all the officially released recorded work, but the bootlegs and outtakes etc., but the Pumpkins are definitely one of 'em.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 5 June 2019 01:40 (one week ago) Permalink

we’ve never seen the deeep live silverfucks 95-96 all laid out right? i saw (and recorded, and traded) a bunch of them back then and just a few months apart it changed so much, just whole new avenues into song, n ight-to-night variations on themes

alomar lines, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 04:27 (one week ago) Permalink

sounds wanky as shit but in person? powerful

alomar lines, Wednesday, 5 June 2019 04:28 (one week ago) Permalink


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