Indie Rock: What's Going On?

anyway, there are some worthwhile indie rock bands around right now. i don't think any one would disagree that The Dismemberment Plan and Les Savy fav are two extremely likable yet challenging indie rock that are almost single-handedly saving the genre. if you are just getting into or trying to understand indie rock in the late 90's, they are the bands to start with. listen and love!

the guy who posts a response to every thread

As to why there's so much indie rock crap on the web, or why there's so much indie rock crap on college radio, or why there's so much indie rock crap in zines, the answer is clear. The indie rocker is the modern hippie, and the internet is his LSD (or more appropriately perhaps, his public television).

Where did this notion come from that college students listen to indie rock (or any sort of postpunk music)? Does *anyone* sincerely believe this? As far as I can tell, most students with whom I go to school and work are more likely to listen to Britney Spears, Tupac, or Treble Charger and have never *heard* of Sonic Youth let alone Samiam. In a town with two major universities the Dismemberment Plan pulled in maybe 50 people (not all of whom were students) when they came.

Camera Obscura, whom I saw the next night, were equally phenomenal live. At moments created a Branca-esque guitar smear. Were so loud they had a shimmering wall of noise going the whole time. Grinded like Swans at other moments. Again, the CD was a bit of a letdown from the live show but has its great moments all the same. Much more of a typical rocking hardcore sound much of the time with synths and samples thrown in. Still, the second track is possibly the best shoegaze song I've heard that wasn't done by My Bloody Valentine. A brief Branca moment manages to creep in on one track. A fine drum sound and great biting vocals.

Black Cat 13 played with CO and were great both live and on record. Superfast no-wavey hardcore with squealing synths and female vocals.

Take into account the schools I'm talking about. Someone at Hampshire really is more likely to be into free-jazz than Britney. You got thousands blasting Eminem and Phish daily at UMass, but that's offset by two ladies colleges where you're more likely to hear not only Sarah McLachlan but, just as likely, Bikini Kill (nay, Le Tigre) and the Magnetic Fields.

Point I guess being that my area is so new-grass hippie progressive that it wasn't really a good example, except to chime in that there are communities where people who listen to the Pixies are as prominent as kids who spin DMX.

can someone explain to me the british use of the term 'indie' since it appears to have little to do with independent labels? is it equivalent to 'alternative?'

First of all, dance music hit and independent labels popped up to release this stuff. It sold very well and the independent charts were full of it, much to the consternation of many fans of "indie" the style. Secondly, a lot of the then 'big names' from "indie" the style were signing to major labels. In fact when I started buying the NME there was a sense of an immense crisis in indieland because the likes of the Darling Buds were signing to whichever vast multinational they signed with.

But meanwhile they were still playing much the same music and you had to call it something. And also the indie charts were "meaningless" because independently distributed people like Kylie were on them (this before it became cool to like Kylie, and well before it became uncool to like her again). Or so the dance/pop-hating kids said. So gradually the style definition took over from the label definition, though there's still a sense that Belle And Sebastian, say, are more 'indie' than Coldplay, though maybe not in the eyes of the Brittania Music Club which is surely the only standard that matters...

By the way, nice to see Lee (or as I remember him, keyserfleck) around these parts. That zine you write for looks swank, I may just buy an issue!

or maybe it's just because i went to a Versus/Yo La Tengo concert two weeks ago, since Versus is my fav band of all time, only to get a buncha people i *supposedly know* saying "but Versus doesn't have the genius and brilliance and genius YLT has" just because i went specifically for Versus. i didn't even say i didn't like yo la tengo. yeah. sure. and "YLT" doesn't have the "brilliance and genius" that thelonius monk had... and i'm sure people can debate me on that point as well. the point is... who really CARES? i grew up with Versus, and, as cheesy as it may sound, i found them to be inspirational partly because of the fact that richard, james, and ed were asian-american like me. woopty-freakin' doo. i got insulted like any good fan should. give me my credit.

i like what i like only because i like the music. that's that. maybe i have supposedly "conformity problems", or maybe i'm listening to this band or that band becuase they're the "indie genius du jour". whether or not i am or i am not is irrelevant. all these "conformists" people make fun of seem to have this one quality about them.... they LIKE the music, no matter how "good" or how "bad" it is. if they flip sides to another genre altogether, who are we to judge? i'm not gonna waste my time whining about that.

oh, oops, wait, i just did. my bad.

indie rock, as opposed to the british "indie" (which never seems to be suffixed with "rock"), refers to all american independent postpunk rock music. evolved out of the hardcore scene, which privileged the diy, indie-label, community-oriented ethic and the lo-fi aesthetic. frequently new hardcore isn't included these days. you'll frequently notice nasal vocals low in the mix and drony guitars with a thick overall sound and sometimes notice alternate tunings, guitar noise, or a busier-than-average rhythm section. the bands mentioned so far in the thread should provide examples. emo is a subgenre.

Rob Crow will soon be given his due. With songs this perfectly catchy it's inevitable.

And does anyone willingly use "indie rock" as a flattering descrpitive term anymore? I implement it only when stuck trying to describe music to folks when I run out of pretentious similies. (Wait a sec - there was that thread where Nitsuh brought up Pinback...)

That said, most of the bands that qualify/ied I still love dearly. And there's plenty of music/bands (Small Factory, for one) that was lost in the IR glut of the mid 90s that should be rediscovered and reconsidered.

Ian's point re: college music is spot-on. Sure, the radio stations might be charting the Shins & Rainer Maria & the Dis Plan, but it's the non-"indie" rock stuff that's really moving.

1. bonnie prince billy - i see a darkness
2. talking heads - sand in the vaseline
3. new pornographers - mass romantic
4. cat power - the covers record
5. various artists - city on a hill
6. r.e.m. - murmur
7. johnny cash - love, god, and murder (box set)
8. radiohead - kid a
9. widespread panic - another joyous occasion (live)
10. jane monheit - never never land

i want to go to ian's school. heh. and who buys r.e.m. albums online when you live in athens, fucking hermits? i walk two feet outside my door every day and there's r.e.m. getting shoved in my fucking face. jesus christ.

Not a pop title in the lot! Probably because there are so many huge record stores here. The UC Berkeley top ten is a bunch of stuff I haven't heard of and Fiona Apple. The number one DVD in Berkeley is Pierrot Le Fou, but almost the entire top ten for the UC Berkeley campus is anime. It's so predictably weird!

maybe you should ask on the rolling teenpop thread.

How about.... tunes? You know, actual ones, not just miminalist repetition?

I mean, I am no big fan of My Chemical Romance, but compared to hip-hop or R&B they are a huge leap in the right direction.

You tell 'em Geir! Ha. Thank god they do not cover songs by African-American artists like the Beatles did.

I'm being sarcastic to make a point.

End of Cold War = End of Rock Music.

Simple.

usually what Geir says is at least halfway sensible or (if nothing else) well-thought-out, but MCR better than "hip-hop" in general? nigga please.

off-topic: Geir, have you read the SFJ piece that's had a lot of discussion here lately?

He's commented on the thread about the SFJ piece, and is hoping the New Yorker (or at least some Scandinavian publication) will let him publish his rebuttal--"No Rock in 2007 is Melodic Enough---And Hip-hop and R'n'b Are to Blame"

What do people get out of this 'emo' music anyway?

-- Curt1s Stephens, Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:39 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's pop music Backstreet bullshit for kids from big cities who want to think they're 'hip' but lack the essential imagination to abandon the music of their parents.

-- That one guy that hit it and quit it, Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:49 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

Um guys, good music can be found both on and off the charts, and dismissing entire genres is not exactly a strong way to make an argument.

A lot of rock (and pop) in 2007 is melodic enough. Which is exactly what ILM'ers and SFJ are bitching about as they wish it was less melodic.

Naah, it's melodically drab too. A good melody is inseparable from a good rhythm anyway, due to the importance of phrasing.

lol curmudgeon we were just c+p'ing shit.

obviously one would need to listen to hours and hours of emo music before deciding it's all rubbish.

are we really going to turn the first ever ilm thread - boring as it generally is - into another Argue-With-Geir-About-Something-He's-Already-Made-His-Mind-Up-About thread.

It's what kept ILM going through the years.

This is really the "first ever ilm thread"?

Songs About Quitting Your Job? is.

I just got fired, what should I listen to?

What are some recent-ish indie rock records that are actually worth hearing for someone who doesn't listen to this stuff anymore? I guess I want more art school kid indie rock (that ISN'T ANNOYING!) rather than indiepop, though tunes are a good thing sometimes too. No gimmicks unless they're really good ones. But not boring either.

I dunno. I mostly listen to astrology records.

Who are they? Do they sound like the pixies?

I was hoping this would be an all-star tribute line-up with Steven Malkmus and Isaac Brock and Doug Martsch trading off verses, all like "Mother, mother..."

I did a search, trying to find the rolling 2k11 thread, and stumbled upon this. I lol'd a bit to find out this is the first ILM thread. I just assumed it was a "Sun Ra - C/D" or a "Steely Dan - S/D" thread that started the madness.

u missed Songs About Quitting Your Job?

the rolling 2k11 thread you were looking for.

but seriously, did anyone see Reynols before they cancelled their tour? If anyone's gonna save indie, it's a band like that.

lol reynols

life goes on

obla-di obla-da

― Tom, Saturday, 26 August 2000 00:00 (10 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Damn!

sadly, nothing has happened in indie rock since 26 august 2000 00:00.

reynols jeez

none more indie. Reynols/No Reynols is the shit

props to Otis breaking down the Five Colleges w/ the old Scooby Doo analogy

emo existed back in 2000?

yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJzAoxvWizw

^good song but I tend to use EMO to describe nasally, whiny, childish, dramatic and/or flowery vox that really grate on me. And apparently I am more prone to hating these voices as apparent by various indie threads on ILM. Then again, even I like a few singers with nasally, whiny, childish, dramatic and/or flowery vox. Just not as many as everyone else.

Heady days, heady days:
http://www.fourfa.com/

i find that when i speak to younger people (I'm 32) they have a wildly differing idea of what "emo" means than I do.

!: http://xconditionedx.blogspot.com/2008/05/90s-emo.html

tylerw OTM

and then i'm like: "young people! let's get our emo facts right!"

'emo' should remain an insult imo. even in conjunction with music

how in the living hell is rye coaltion emo???

i think i have a braid record on vinyl.

emo changed again after this thread. What generation of emo is it now?

Did we really let the twentieth anniversary of this thread go entirely unmarked? I suppose we were all a little distracted.

There's an analogy between the Five Colleges and Scooby-Doo, with each school a different character. Hampshire is Shaggy. Will Oldham is an alum; he's probably as close to the stereotypical Hampshire student as anyone (hyperintellectual, violently odd, stupidly pretentious).

Sorry to correct 20-yr-old misinfo, but Oldham didn’t go to Hampshire. (He attended Brown, but didn’t graduate)

(Maybe this was pointed out later in the thread, I stopped reading at that point)

Lol

they were probably mixed up with Elliot Smith.

Tom's blog from the first post is still archived: https://web.archive.org/web/20001206155500/http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~tewing/2000_08_20_singlesa.html

Apparently the offending emo bands were Get Up Kids and Samiam.

what is indie rock's "What's Going On"

^"Float On"