Henry Cow C/D and S/D

I'll give a listen tonight, time permitting, but just wanted to clarify I got this disc as the teaser for the big live box set order... so if you ordered the box set re: the deal above, you should be getting your Stockholm CD shortly!

stockholm is pretty good but it may pall in comparison to some of the rest.

1st review (and it's extensive) of the whole thing at allaboutjazz:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=31544">=http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=31544

I can't wait for that DVD.

Also: apparently there is a very slight delay in despatch due to another new find being added to the special disk for subscribers.

let's try:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=31544

I can see why they chose Stockholm / Goteborg as the lead CD -- they way they edited those two shows together to feature almost of all of the compositions that didn't make it onto their last record, it basically becomes an approximation of what their 5th original studio album would have sounded like, so it's a good choice to have it available seperately -- the first time I heard the CD, I was pissed they faded out the (incredible) live version of 'Ruins' from the Stockholm show, but since they played that at almost every one of their shows, making a listenable box set means they had to

But I agree, it's the live improvs that's going to wake people up. this band's studio albums were great, but they didn't touch what they got up to live.

most of the sets are available online for the people who want every last second of what happened & don't care as much about fidelity, but that review confirms that every one of these discs has been sequenced like an album

I mean the whole reason I'm into this place is the cleared playing field where Asmus Tietchens threads pop up right next to Billy Joel but if you guys can't keep a thread on the best prog band in the world in new answers for more than a day I'm seriously going to give up on this place

I don't own any Henry Cow -- some Frith. But this set looks incredible.

i'm glad there's no more version of "erk gah" (although i'll be happy to see it on the dvd). it still annoys me for whatever reason and it makes the stockholm disk a lot less appealing. the version of "no more songs" is terrific.

I'm into it, but it's pretty clear why the group broke up over that piece, it defines uncompromising at the exact moment that cutler & frith were getting into writing songs. the freeform noise sections of the disc are incredible and 'No More Songs' and the Frith march at the end bring the tunes.

I like this version of 'Erk Gah' a lot better than the studio version Hodgkinson put out later, so maybe it's just relative

The '74 Halsteren gig where they loop and stretch out on all the chords & riffs that ended up being 'Living In The Heart Of The Beast' shows that even Hodgkinson's trickiest compositions have very catchy melodies all over them, he just goes for density instead of repetition so the choicest bits only come out on repeat listens

i always heard the melodies in "living" but "erk" just doesn't seem to have them for me: i've listened to the solo hodgkinson version many times and various bootlegs too. i'm sure it's just one of those pieces i'll never like. but, yes, the improv tracks are terrific and i'm sure there'll be lots more of those in the package. if there's anything as good as "udine" from "concerts" i'll be well pleased.

it's interesting that hodgkinson also went to a more song driven group - the work - after a little while. they all seemed to keep this going in the 'post-punk' years, even lindsay cooper to some extent. maybe we should blame georgie born for the insistance on long-form stuff? but how could you with that fabulous cd-tray photo of her in the stockholm disk - completely blissed out whilst playing live.

the box has been despatched, apparently.

YES YES YES YES

(at the news of the box sets being sent out. This might be the last time I drop money on a limited box like this, but o how great this will be.)

http://www.rermegacorp.com/images/products/ReR/HenryCow_Box_Set.jpg

Lumme

Classic classic classic. Gave me a whole new appreciation for sox.

got it today - the DVD is fantastic. dagmar is mostly still throughout the 60 mins but ecstatic nonetheless, frith is on the run from one piece of equipment to another; cooper is quiet and concentrated, born is even more so, cutler is just magnificent, the kind of drummer any band would want and hodgkinson actually smiles from time to time - completely unexpected. much more visceral when you can see them play. 3 guys, 3 women, playing extraordinary music. the amount of sideburns on display takes hirsute to another level.

of the discs i've listened to - they're well worth the price: excellent selections from their whole timespan that expands their current suite.

more later, no doubt.

So those of us who only have the studio albums should plunk down for box 1 & 2 I take it? Or is there some reason to get box 3 beyond "ooh, matching boxes" completist enthusiasm?

Funny to see an old post here where I'm enthusing about Unrest. I just listened to that last week, and that shit still blows me away.
Can't say I have much use for the DVD though, but I suppose it's kind of cool that it even exists.

as a subscriber i got an empty 3rd box but i already have all the remastered releases so they fit in quite neatly. truthfully, the DVD is excellent - you need it.

my favourite recordings so far are disks 4 and 5 - trondheim where "john had just left, dagmar was unwell and the tour was already booked. we had a meeting where we abandoned the idea of attempting a written programme and decided to improvise in the dark instead". tim h, fred f and lindsay c prepared 2 hour tapes that were started at the same time and ran throughout the concert. they then faded them in whenever they though it might be a good idea but they had no real idea what was on the tape at that particular time. over this they improvise superbly with limited equiptment - the overall effect is quite dark and disturbing with snatches of vocals interspersed with stark organ chords, etc.

Unlikely though it may seem, given our general poverty at around this time, we visited -- and contemplated buying -- a giant dairy complex near Stevenage. It had been built, we were told, earlier in the century by an eccentric millionare for his mistress, a vast oval building with a football-pitch-sized open courtyard in the centre, an imposing pair of towers either side of its entrance and a winding covered way leading out into the fields behind. From the air it was designed to look like a cow. I wouldn't dare make this up. For money we were planning to use the generous fee in prospect for composing a third of the soundtrack for Alejandro Jodorowsky's planned film adaptation of Frank Herbert's 'Dune'. Jodorowsky had come to the Rome concert in the Piazza Navona withn Michel Seydoux, his Parisian backer and had told us [as Tim remembers it] that we were the most advanced musicians, he was the most advanced director, and we were going to do something great together. He came again to see us in Paris. The project began to look serious. Now Virgin got involved. At the beginning, each of the three planets in the story would be represented musically by Karlheinz Stockhausen, Henry Cow and Magma respectively. Then Stockhausen pulled out -- well, I don't know what really happened but suddenly Pink Floyd were to be planet three. That's where it all started to go wrong -- from our point of view. Maybe six months into the story I had to go see Jodorowsky at the Savoy Hotel. I was in the middle of seeing if I could go a year without wearing shoes and, to get to the place I had to borrow Richard Branson's shoes (and a tie). Richard waited in the car I think. We were told Pink Floyd's management were pushing hard to get Magma and us booted off the project so that Pink Floyd could do all of it. It dragged on for a while longer but nothing got past talk and hustle until eventually, the whole project was dropped, the rights were sold on, and after Ridley Scott had taken up and then abandoned it, David Lynch made a lackluster, forgettable version of the story. I still have the original -- lavish -- promotional book with highly exotic costume designs, plot resume and storyboard extracts: it would have pipped Star Wars to the post. Salvidor Dali was booked to play the Emperor of the Universe. -CC

I was in the middle of seeing if I could go a year without wearing shoes

lol. if anything was right about the world that movie had been made

I love how they put that freaking sock on everything.

I actually got into an argument with someone who hated the socks and I kind of trusted them a mite less after that.

Box looks RAD but why no sox on the box?

File under Problems You Want To Have, but the third box is useless to me, aside from the "OW" in the outer spine for display purposes, because I already have a cardboard-sleeve box set edition of the studio albums from 2004(?), so none of those fit in the 3rd box anyway. I could put Vol 11: Stockholm in there but that's about it.

I'll use the 3rd box as extra knick knack storage.

(btw, I just got this late last night, so I'll follow up with thoughts once I get through some of this)

there's the mangiest sock ever on the cover of the 11th subscriber-only CD.

I went through the first half of the DVD last night. Seeing Dagmar at full frail power in 1976 sort of threw me for a loop.

xpost you mean you don't have both the remasters and the original early 90's ESD reissues with the remixes? get cracking

sadly no, I just got the plebeian remasters box set with the bonus 3" CD instead. excuse me while I go harvest the potatoes for me lord.

the japanese one with small sleeves? I saw a copy of that one once and god it was beautiful. the family tree poster. what's on the 3" cd?

can you still subscribe for this box or did I miss out?

here's the box I was talking about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Cow_Box

Bonus 3" CD-single: "Unreleased Orckestra Extract"
Contains previously unreleased material taken from live performances in Europe by The Orckestra in April 1978. Given to advance subscribers of the box set.

"Untitled" (Frith) – 3:40
"Would You Prefer Us to Lie?" (Cutler, Greaves) – 8:03

I haven't checked but maybe that 3" CD is obsolete now?

Alan, this is the RER direct link to the recent live box set

http://www.rermegacorp.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RERHCBOX1&Category_Code=COW&Store_Code=RM

Karlheinz Stockhausen, Henry Cow and Magma respectively

this seems utterly plausible

I'm bringing the DVD to your party tomorrow night and we're going to watch it while everyone else at the party is having fun

ha ha, the moment on 'Hamburg 3' where the band is just playing increasingly spaced out diffuse noise ala 'Deluge' and Dagmar just quietly comes in whispering the melody to Slapp Happy's 'A Little Something'

still only 4 discs in. it's a slow build, the first disc is more interesting for being early than compelling, but the 11th subscriber-only disc is 60 minutes and it's all pretty great & freeform.

that note in the liners about how these have been edited... yes these have really been edited. usually transparently / plausibly, but the aesthetic here is that the original tapes are just raw material, these were all trimmed down for repeat listening

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_40th_Anniversary_Henry_Cow_Box_Set

just about every disc is fantastic, but yeah, 4/5 Trondheim is really something

Chris Cutler answering questions on AAJ:

http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=37642

UK ilxors, Amazon currently have The Studio box set (5 CDs) for £14.47! Looking forward to it as the original CD versions I have sound a bit gash.

that is a criminal bargain

both volumes of 'the road' box set is beyond belief really. the first two discs I don't return to all that often, yeah, but the real surprise is the amount of completely composed material throughout, they had enough for 3-4 additional studio albums. the other thing is just how much absurdly ON IT they were as a live band, the live versions of familiar pieces are just completely on fire, they just tear it all to shreds

so anyone worried that this 10 disc box set is mostly like the ambient / completely abstract side of what they do, nope, it is split 50/50 between abstract freeform & compositions that are so good it is just confusing that it took until the 30th anniversary for them to come out

proof my paragraph for me ok? ok

UK ilxors, Amazon currently have The Studio box set (5 CDs) for £14.47!

Thanks for the heads up, duly ordered. Not restricted to UK either as they are shipping it to Europe for me for only £2 p&p!

revive!!

did anyone read the Chris Cutler letter in the new issue of the Wire? it's pretty epic: http://thewire.co.uk/articles/6715/

For what's worth, I think he's obviously right.

Kinda teasing fans there with the prospect of a reconstituted Cow

He's not 'obviously right' at all. Some of the things he says are right, but certainly not all, and the conclusions he draws from some things do not necessarily follow.

This piece from Records on Ribs is a great contribution to the debate as far as I'm concerned: To Free or Not to Free. (Full disclosure: I do know them, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything they say here - I just think it's a very well considered addition to the subject.)

"As Cutler notes, plumbers do not work for free. But capitalism is not the end of history and perhaps one day plumbers will work for free"

Thanks for the tip; while I can appreciate the effort put in the label, phrases like this are a bit puzzling, at least for me.

Not sure if this is being patronising, but the 'end of history' thing is a reference to Fukuyama's book, in which he claims our state of Western capitalist democracy is indeed the end point of cultural evolution.

No problem - for what's worth, I find Fukuyama and his Hegelian mannerisms pretty simplistic too.
Still the idea of a society based on "gift economies, common ownership and mutual aid" seems to me wishful thinking, at the same time beautiful and slightly terrifying.

Cutler's response was actually written a few years ago in response to filesharing and repurposed as a response to Kenny's column but it's still a live topic

"As Cutler notes, plumbers do not work for free. But capitalism is not the end of history and perhaps one day plumbers will work for free"

this struck me as a slightly patronizing tone to take towards the individual who wrote the lyrics for "In Praise Of Learning" & "The World As It Is Today" but the Internet means that the conversation usually gotten started before a round of formal introductions. I agree that RoR's (ha ha) idealism is kind of charming but Cutler's been living in the real world for a few decades

as the owner who started what I basically consider to be the most important independent art music label of the 80's and early 90's, Cutler gets to hardline his points -- I learned the canon of most of what I consider to be important through Recommended Records' catalog during that time, and there was no one -- no one else keeping this music in print at that time.

is there really not a RIO thread?

Posting here then: http://www.indiegogo.com/RomanticWarriors?c=home

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVxon0Dd2Rg

Anyone interested in Henry Cow, Univers Zero, Samla, Magma...basically any experimental prog, needs to watch this and contribute to this documentary. They have all the major players, and the story needs to be told, and out there for all to see.

Listening to Unrest now for the first time. I think I understand how this is In Opposition; quite clearly, in fact. The very hills, the hedges, the birds, they are all rising to face the oppressor. Ancient, paganistic squalls of defiance; beauty and savage horror.

feels like a plausible alternative soundtrack to Watership Down

What's the cliché about one becoming less radical as one gets older. Being a red at college and more right wing as one faces life.

So these have gone from radical leftist politics to selling NFTs for profit?
Gosh all my dreams shattered, like.

Better go and listen to some of their more idealistic selves.

Do hope if this is a live performance the comment is only temporary. They are getting older but would be nice to see them at sometime.
Oh yeah saw that the one off is in Italy. Remembered that one disc of the 75 live thing with Wyatt was an Italian date. Also that VDGG were particularly popular down there so wondered if The Cow were too. Though not hearing the influence as much on Italian Prog bands as I am with VDGG. Though maybe I'm just listening to bands that would be too early.

Itallian thing from 75 I was referring to is this In The Name of A Freedom
https://i.discogs.com/jLg_LmksdwhMLe6GDuCd33q40Wo380daQRnMY-DRQkI/rs:fit/g:sm/q:90/h:297/w:300/czM6Ly9kaXNjb2dz/LWRhdGFiYXNlLWlt/YWdlcy9SLTM1OTMy/MDEtMTMzNjYwNDQz/NS0xNjgxLmpwZWc.jpeg
https://www.discogs.com/release/3593201-Henry-Cow-Featuring-Robert-Wyatt-In-The-Name-Of-A-Freedom

Other 2 discs are 1 London, 1 Paris
not sure if having an Italian gig here represents any level of popularity or not. Do definitely hear a lot of VDGG in the early 70s Italian Prog so presumably were somewhat open to avant influences from british bands.

I think Halfway was joking about the NFT thing.

Just found this interview with Frith from a couple of months ago in which he talks about the reunion (spoiler alert, he doesn't call it a reunion):

RR: Let's talk about the Henry Now gig coming up later this year in Italy. A reunion?

FF: Not really. We are all in contact in various ways, and have been since the group’s demise. Chris and Tim and I have played together in many different contexts and guises, and I’ve joined forces with John here and there too, Chris and John are in several ventures together. Plus we try to follow each other’s work, which is tough because all of us have been endlessly busy with all kinds of projects in all kinds of contexts.

RR: A one-off?

FF: Well, there was a gig that was cancelled because it’s Italy and they never know until the last minute if the funding will come through, or the venue, or whatever. But our friend Max is not one to take that, so he organized his own concert in Piacenza. Right now it’s a one-off, but who knows?

RR: Old songs? New material?

FF: No old songs, no new material, it will be improvised. But the point of Henry Now, is that it could develop into whatever we feel like and with whomever is available. So anything could happen in the next period as long as we’re all still here!

https://rickrees.substack.com/p/fred-frith-interview

Do I genuinely need to point out that I wasn't taking that overly seriously?

Shame if this is absolutely a one off since teh players must be getting on a bit and in the wake of the pandemic people's temporality or mortality. So opportunities may turn out to unitentionally be the last one. Hope taht is recorded both audio and visually.

Do I genuinely need to point out that I wasn't taking that overly seriously?

― Stevolende

yes please, i'm neurodiverse and have trouble parsing sarcasm

THink I didn't finish a sentence there that people's temporality and mortality must be things that one needs to be conscious of. i.e by the time another opportunity arose may be less participants still around.

Also what goes into preparation for an event like this, is there rehearsal or is people's previous playing together enough for tehm to be familiar with each other's styles and means of instrumental communication . If there is rehearsal one would think that one would benefit from playing another couple of days at any juncture when people could actually get together. Like if there is a space in a diary for one get together one would think one would look into doing a few more when one had the chance or if one had the chance. Though getting older may mean drop in stamina which would mean one could do less concerts in a given time without needing to get energy together. I think David Crosby was talking about that in a documentary I saw on Sky Arts a few weeks ago and he's in the same rough age range.

Crosby's quite a bit older I think?

I had to check. Crosby - born in 1941. Fred Frith - born in 1949.

Huh, I didn’t know Frith was that “young.”

the core of HC were all actual real students when they first played together in like 68 iirc

also lol: "in October 1969 philosopher galen strawson auditioned for the band"

Ooooh

Re: preparation

Frith just shows up and improvises with different folks like 7 days a week he dont need no rehearsal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MndFeU6uf84

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=741797

Full set on yt, for the non-dimeadozen peeps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOVbnHI92Es