A Certain Ratio

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Could someone recommend some of the better ACR tunes to look for? The only tunes I have heard by them were kind of weak. I constantly see references to them, so I thought I might of missed some of their better material.

Frank Booth (Frank Booth), Monday, 4 August 2003 17:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Shack Up!

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Monday, 4 August 2003 17:22 (eighteen years ago) link

do the du, knife slits water... uh...

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 4 August 2003 17:31 (eighteen years ago) link

I also have only heard a few, but I really like "The Fox"

Sonny A. (Keiko), Monday, 4 August 2003 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link

Shack Up, Do The Du, Flight, Lucinda, Knife Slits Water

M Specktor (M Specktor), Monday, 4 August 2003 17:53 (eighteen years ago) link

just buy the Early Compilation on soul jazz records. it's easy to find and 2cds full of winners (with the occasional duds too)

JasonD (JasonD), Monday, 4 August 2003 18:43 (eighteen years ago) link

just buy Section 25 records instead.

factoryfan, Monday, 4 August 2003 18:54 (eighteen years ago) link

i wouldn't recommend the compilation to someone who finds what they have heard so far to be weak. imo, their three most-played tracks (do the du, shack up, knife slits water) dwarf everything else, and the quality drops vertiginously from there. i was pleasantly surprised by some of the tracks on the peel sessions/rarities disc of the "early" set, but that's about all.

lauren (laurenp), Monday, 4 August 2003 18:57 (eighteen years ago) link

you mean 'buy the section 25 records as well.'

your null fame (yournullfame), Monday, 4 August 2003 18:57 (eighteen years ago) link

b-but a certain ratio are kind of weak!

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 4 August 2003 19:22 (eighteen years ago) link

the double 12" with "flight" and "do the du" is probably the best thing they ever did, but "all night party" and that later album where they try to get all freaky deaky with the timbales have to be some sort of nadir for western society.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 4 August 2003 19:26 (eighteen years ago) link

everyone's so harsh on ACR, but I think all of their first 2 LPs(To Each... and Sextet) are cool(see the orig version of Choir for how good they could've been if they followed the post-punk route and not the brazillian disco hip-hop direction), and I even like the 3rd, I'd Like to See You Again, but I also like lots of bad 80s electronic funk made by white people, so it's a matter or perspective. But dissing them for All Night Party is just not fair.

Dan Selzer, Monday, 4 August 2003 19:39 (eighteen years ago) link

What do you hate about All Night Party, strongo? And which version are you referring to?

Andy K (Andy K), Monday, 4 August 2003 19:47 (eighteen years ago) link

if it's what i'm think of, it's the one with no rhythm section? already owning heart and soul, my need for joy division has been met many times over.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Monday, 4 August 2003 21:54 (eighteen years ago) link

All Night Party we there first single and it's dour and poor post-Joy Division drudgery. Yeah, no drums. From a band known, primarily, for there drums. i think it was made before Dennis Johnson joined. BTW, for more mid 80s white funk, check out the new LTM Be Music comp, which is all dance productions by various members of New Order, some done with Dennis Johnston(was is DOJO?) Killer stuff by Quando Quango, 52nd Street etc. Like Looking From a Hilltop Section 25 type electro-funk.

Dan Selzer, Monday, 4 August 2003 22:55 (eighteen years ago) link

the Early compilation is pretty good, but yeah most everything else is inessential at best. i loved "won't stop loving you" at some stage but these days it sounds wimpy and washed out

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 4 August 2003 23:12 (eighteen years ago) link

what got into their heads? why did they decide to be an "authentic" whiteboy funk band? was that their intention all along, but they were too inept on the early records?

(btw: whats "bootsy" like? never heard it)

gaz (gaz), Monday, 4 August 2003 23:18 (eighteen years ago) link

i had the single but i could tell you what it was like even with a gun to the head

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 4 August 2003 23:23 (eighteen years ago) link

couldn't

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 4 August 2003 23:23 (eighteen years ago) link

no yaaabaadaaabbaadooo's then?

gaz (gaz), Monday, 4 August 2003 23:47 (eighteen years ago) link

I think everybody needs to hear "Lucinda" RIGHT NOW.

Douglas (Douglas), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 01:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Actually, I think I'll watch that film that's on the second disc of Early, still haven't seen it yet.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 01:44 (eighteen years ago) link

The "Flight" and "Du the Du" EPs (also available as "The Double 12 inch" I think...) are pretty good. "To each..." could have been ok, but unfortunately sounds like it was recorded somewhere beneath the surface of a tidal mud flat. From there it was all downhill, and fast, "I'd like to see you again", "Force", "Bootsy", "The Big E" etc...

steve, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 01:48 (eighteen years ago) link

hi steve!!!

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 01:49 (eighteen years ago) link

*waves* :-)

steve, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 02:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Possibly the worst ACR release is the "Looking for ACR" remix album (on Creation... erm?). Uniformly dreadful, with occasional overdubbed pop vocals. Egad!

steve, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 02:10 (eighteen years ago) link

I think everybody needs to hear "Lucinda" RIGHT NOW.
-- Douglas (il...), August 5th, 2003.

Seconded. Most people aren't aware of this amazing song? Or do they just not like it?

colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 02:11 (eighteen years ago) link

it already got mentioned, i love all of sextet. two bass players!

gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 02:59 (eighteen years ago) link

It was DONALD Johnson, not Dennis!! And yes he is/was Dojo when in the producers chair. A bloody fantastic musician - plays most of the slap bass where ACR use it as well as being an amazing drummer. On stage they used to swap instruments with Dojo taking bass and Moscrop taking over the kit for songs like 'Touch'.

I don't understand what all the controversy is about the production on 'To Each...'. I remember it got pretty bad reviews because of it at the time but to me it sounds great - crisp and funky with a good drum sound and some nice atmospherics. Underrated track that everyone should hear : Loss.

For me To Each, Sextet and Graveyard+Ballroom are essential as are the Knife Slits Water and Waterline 12 inchers. From later on 'Force' is brilliant as are the Wild Party and Life's A Scream 12 inchers. I really like 'I'd Like To See You Again' but I can see why most people don't.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 10:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Don't lump "Force" in with the rest of the stuff around that time. That was an admittedly crap period of ACR, but "Force" is superb! And it's on Factory which is always a boon.
"Touch" and likeminded tracks on "Early" aren't a million miles from the "Force" tracks.

Anyway, they came out of the crap period and went great again with the "MCR" album.


Johnny Jarvis, Tuesday, 5 August 2003 15:02 (eighteen years ago) link

I saw ACR play the Sheffield Leadmill in late 88 (it was their warm up gig for the New Order / Happy Mondays / ACR G-Mex concert) and they played all the "Good together" material then and it sounded far better in concert than on record. I think the problem with "GT" was that it was over-produced to make it sound sort of contemporary, which didn't really work. Some of the material is great anyway, but the "Four from the floor" EP (which became "MCR") was far superior.

As to "To Each.."'s production, I think the band and Hannett slagged it off simply because the early mixes were far better before the engineer in the US cleared the mixing desk (or whatever, the story is in "Early"'s notes). I think it sounds a bit murky, but it suits the material really. And come on... "Winter hill"!!! What a track!

Rob M (Rob M), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 15:28 (eighteen years ago) link

The best ACR track is Kether Hot Knives which was the 12" b-side to Knife Slit's Water.

Mike Taylor (mjt), Tuesday, 5 August 2003 23:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Legend has it that after completing the recording of "To each" the band and Hannett left the studio intending to return the following day and mix the album. Upon their return they were greeted by a friendly cleaner who had "helpfully" reset all the controls on the desk for them...!

steve, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 00:29 (eighteen years ago) link

The Castle Communications album "ACR live in America" is a complete classic. Anyone got it?
The beginning of the record, with Intro/Sounds Like Something Dirty/The Fox is fantastic.

Johnny Jarvis, Wednesday, 6 August 2003 07:24 (eighteen years ago) link

I have a copy of it, I need to break it out.

Mike Taylor (mjt), Thursday, 7 August 2003 01:42 (eighteen years ago) link

seven months pass...
Well then -- The Graveyard and the Ballroom has been reissued on CD with a couple of bonus tracks and whereas before I've been sorta appreciative of them, *now* I think I definitely like them, if only for this rather than most of where they ended up. Perhaps they're one of those bands that shouldn't've grown/changed with time.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:12 (seventeen years ago) link

i stand by my earlier contentious statements

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:19 (seventeen years ago) link

!

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:20 (seventeen years ago) link

No timbales on this release (that I can hear). It's 1979/80 dour vocals/groaning bass/death disco. Ergo, brilliant!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:21 (seventeen years ago) link

No timbales, no play.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:22 (seventeen years ago) link

I did suspect that would be a turnoff for you, good sir.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:27 (seventeen years ago) link

oh wait i did like "life's a scream" because it's supposed to be like their mid-80s synth-MOR move but they couldnt even sell out right

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:29 (seventeen years ago) link

also sfj's description of "shack up" - "still sounds like someone's dad trying to catch wreck" - is one of my favorite, like ever. so they have that going for them.

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I didn't even know they knew about timbales. But I guess I'm the one who didn't know about timbales back in the early 80's.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Do they have one with funny voices?

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:31 (seventeen years ago) link

I think that's the one I like.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:31 (seventeen years ago) link

This band has always been exhibit A in my "if your band's name eats ass, your band will forever seem second-tier" diorama

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:32 (seventeen years ago) link

But I like their name.

Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:33 (seventeen years ago) link

i seem to remember the dead dull "i'd like to see you again" bore the inscription "not recommended for those with a limited thrill capacity"

rockist i think simon wosname (topping?) studied latin percussion in ney york. i have a 12 on factory by him which is well smoochy on the timbales (but still crap)

mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:33 (seventeen years ago) link

oh i like the name!

(and yes i know what it means.)

strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 04:33 (seventeen years ago) link

With the pound plunging further against the euro than Tamira Paszek's neckline, I'll think I will wait for a UK release. Thanks for the review, though.

Jeff W, Friday, 12 December 2008 10:45 (twelve years ago) link

three weeks pass...

4 full songs now streaming on their MySpace page, true believers! I think they're gonna stream the whole LP eventually.

One of the new songs is called "Everything Is Good". I think that sums up neatly how I felt about what I was listening to. :)

Jeff W, Monday, 5 January 2009 19:00 (twelve years ago) link

Oh, nice one. Any news yet on where one might be able to get hold of a copy of this fucker?

Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Monday, 5 January 2009 19:04 (twelve years ago) link

Just leaked.

Johnny Fever, Monday, 5 January 2009 21:27 (twelve years ago) link

where is it leaking?

brotherlovesdub, Monday, 5 January 2009 21:58 (twelve years ago) link

IN MY PANTS.

Special topics: Disco, The Common Market (grimly fiendish), Monday, 5 January 2009 22:19 (twelve years ago) link

you'd get along well with my grandma!

brotherlovesdub, Monday, 5 January 2009 22:53 (twelve years ago) link

just wait til bimble finds out

Pfunkboy Formerly Known As... (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 5 January 2009 22:53 (twelve years ago) link

Playing "Some Day" off Change The Station now...and I'm on clouds. Oh my god. Have we established yet how this band rule?

gods jangle the key change (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Sunday, 11 January 2009 15:58 (twelve years ago) link

Better fucking believe it bitchez

gods jangle the key change (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Sunday, 11 January 2009 16:03 (twelve years ago) link

Flight, live 2005:

DID SOMEONE SAY POST PUNK?

gods jangle the key change (Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You), Sunday, 11 January 2009 16:04 (twelve years ago) link

five months pass...

Sometimes I wonder why I try to talk about this band here when so few on this board seem to even give a flying shite about them.

A Certain Ratio - performing "Wild Party" (probably my favourite song of them ever) and "Inside" in 1985.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_8-ijfZA2w

Subway to Idaho (Bimble), Saturday, 20 June 2009 17:52 (twelve years ago) link

hahhaa I already posted that in January! Oh shit, I'm so sorry LOLOLOLOLOL

Subway to Idaho (Bimble), Saturday, 20 June 2009 17:55 (twelve years ago) link

so few on this board seem to even give a flying shite about them.

seriously? this thread has like 160 some posts.

(jaxon) ( .) ( .) (jaxon), Saturday, 20 June 2009 18:59 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, but there's too much me in here, man. Just sayin'. Thanks for posting.

Subway to Idaho (Bimble), Saturday, 20 June 2009 19:14 (twelve years ago) link

I was watching 24 Hour Party People the other night - I forgot they were all over that. The scene with the shorts was hilarious.

Violent In Design (Masonic Boom), Saturday, 20 June 2009 19:24 (twelve years ago) link

Yeah, but there's too much me in here, man. Just sayin'.

and this is different from any other thread you post in, how?

(jaxon) ( .) ( .) (jaxon), Saturday, 20 June 2009 19:37 (twelve years ago) link

Hahahahha

Subway to Idaho (Bimble), Saturday, 20 June 2009 20:50 (twelve years ago) link

So, I've finally acquired a copy of Mind Made Up (or is/was it A Mind Made Up? Do a GIS for the cover and spot the differences). Do they actively not want people to hear this, or something?

Anyway. Looking forward to this, maybe a little unrealistically ...

a tiny, faltering megaphone (grimly fiendish), Monday, 29 June 2009 16:07 (twelve years ago) link

It's great, innit? Everything Is Good is my new favourite ACR song of all time (that won't last, but still).

Seriously, though, what are they playing at? I'm rather hoping we can lure Martin Moscrop back to the thread because, y'know, arguments over distribution notwithstanding: it's the fucking 21st century and there are myriad ways to get an album heard, none of which they seem to be doing.

Certainly better than releasing it in France and hoping for the best.

a tiny, faltering megaphone (grimly fiendish), Saturday, 4 July 2009 10:22 (twelve years ago) link

haha amen, grimly

Just Go Lay A Disco Egg (Bimble), Saturday, 4 July 2009 10:28 (twelve years ago) link

I would probably buy this if I saw it on iTunes. Which it isn't.

I am using your worlds, Saturday, 4 July 2009 10:33 (twelve years ago) link

It mystifies me too why they don't do more to get their music heard. They'd be absolutely perfect on LTM. As a side note, a lot of the original factory crew seem to be undergoing creative renaissances. The last few releases by Durutti Column and especially Section 25 have been good to excellent.

sandcat dune buggy attack squad!! (leavethecapital), Saturday, 4 July 2009 13:26 (twelve years ago) link

Yep: they've been superb (although, in fairness, Vini's never really put a foot wrong).

Apparently Red Turns To ... have reformed: http://www.myspace.com/redturnsto. Fuck me.

a tiny, faltering megaphone (grimly fiendish), Saturday, 4 July 2009 14:39 (twelve years ago) link

I really like that Red Turn To EP. I wish there was more from that era.

sandcat dune buggy attack squad!! (leavethecapital), Saturday, 4 July 2009 15:08 (twelve years ago) link

There probably is and they'll just never let us hear it ;)

Just Go Lay A Disco Egg (Bimble), Saturday, 4 July 2009 17:41 (twelve years ago) link

ten months pass...

Anyone else heard the new album, Mind Made Up? Between that and the new Fall album, late seventies Manchester keeps bringing it.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 20 May 2010 16:26 (eleven years ago) link

Damn, that reissue of Force is so good.

double shyamalan (MaresNest), Saturday, 29 May 2010 23:04 (eleven years ago) link

Iv'e always loved Force even though it was almost universally panned at the time it came out. The record allows me to indulge my secret love of smooth funk-pop without feeling guilty. Has anyone heard any of the ARC stuff that came out on Rob's Records, the label Gretton ran for a brief time in the seventies, is it anything like their other records or is it more dance floor oriented?

i'm a desperate bicycle (leavethecapital), Saturday, 29 May 2010 23:37 (eleven years ago) link

timely revive, considering thread starter's display name

willem, Sunday, 30 May 2010 05:59 (eleven years ago) link

I bought Force when I was a nipper on-spec from HMV in Union Street Glasgow, just simply through the artwork being so damn good, it was on Factory *and* it was a nifty cassette box set. When I played it I was a bit let down that it wasn't at-all like JD or NO, I liked it a bit but generally would only listen to Mickey Way and Fever repeatedly. What an object though! I even rebought it on EBay a few years later even though I don't listen to cassettes.

Nowadays, with the absence of any kind of peer prssure, I am greatly digging those mid-eighties coffee table funk tones and pristine production, Corrine Drewery's (sp) voice on Bootsy is lovely too.

double shyamalan (MaresNest), Sunday, 30 May 2010 10:26 (eleven years ago) link

http://cerysmaticfactory.info/fact166c.html

I've just started James Nice's Factory Book too and looking forward to chewing on that.

double shyamalan (MaresNest), Sunday, 30 May 2010 10:32 (eleven years ago) link

Oh wow, hadn't heard about the book yet!

http://www.cerysmaticfactory.info/shadowplayers_the_rise_and_fall_of_factory_records.html

Ned Raggett, Sunday, 30 May 2010 14:23 (eleven years ago) link

A Factory book by James Nice? Me want now. Oh and Rob's Records were active eighties to early nineties, durr... I'll have to pick up that Rob's Records sampler from LTM.

i'm a desperate bicycle (leavethecapital), Sunday, 30 May 2010 16:17 (eleven years ago) link

the two people with their back to the camera in the bottom photo in that last link are trembling blue stars btw. apparently they were v excited about meeting peter saville, unsurprisingly

lemon lime & butters (electricsound), Monday, 31 May 2010 00:21 (eleven years ago) link

also in the bottom pic, the guy in the orange striped shirt and the bald guy in the long sleeve white button up are Vikings (johnny giles + 'emales' author alan jarvis).

brotherlovesdub, Monday, 31 May 2010 00:30 (eleven years ago) link

oh i thought bald guy was bobby wratten, whoops

lemon lime & butters (electricsound), Monday, 31 May 2010 00:33 (eleven years ago) link

doppelgängers? I suppose I'm not sure. Would be cooler if it was Bobby Wratten so let's go with that.

brotherlovesdub, Monday, 31 May 2010 01:47 (eleven years ago) link

ten months pass...

Totally grooving to the "Early" comp tonight. I'm a bit forgiving with some of the lesser tracks on disc 1 but disc 2 is totally ace with some nifty dub experiments. Boy do I lurve me some post-punk dub...

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Tuesday, 5 April 2011 23:14 (ten years ago) link

six months pass...

I can't explain why but these guys kind of remind me of Captain Beyond.

fried chicken makes Alex cry, who'd vote for such a wimpy guy? (Abbbottt), Wednesday, 26 October 2011 19:20 (ten years ago) link

email I just received today:

Strut presents FAC. DANCE, an essential new retrospective covering the dance output of Factory Records, the seminal Manchester record label founded by Tony Wilson, Alan Erasmus and designer Peter Saville.

The album turns the spotlight on some of the label's early dancefloor-based work across key 12" mixes and rarities, from the unmistakeable production style of Martin Hannett to pioneering studio work by New Order's Bernard Sumner and A Certain Ratio drummer Donald Johnson, under their BeMusic and DoJo monikers.

Early Factory experiments like Blurt's avant garde mutant funk blast 'Puppeteer' rub shoulders with the fertile post-Joy Division period as the label's unique, coruscating post-punk sound took shape on extended 12" cuts from A Certain Ratio, Section 25 and more. The album also expressly documents Factory's strong links and cross-pollination with New York's 1980s club culture, as New Order joined forces with producer Arthur Baker, fresh from his pioneering electro work with Afrika Bambaataa, while Quando Quango and Marcel King enlisted NY remixer Mark Kamins for tough-edged club treatments. Factory artists including Quando Quango would also perform at some of the city's seminal nightspots, including the Paradise Garage.

The compilation also touches on some of the wider dancefloor directions explored by Factory during its early years - the latin jazz funk of Swamp Children and Kalima, the cool British soul of Tony Henry's 52nd Street and a track from Factory's only overtly reggae single, the Dennis Bovell-produced 'See Them A'Come' by X-O-Dus. Within FAC. DANCE are contained the grooves that would provide the blueprint for the Manchester scene of the late '80s and Factory's heady later years - Happy Mondays, James, Northside and the rest.

FAC. DANCE is compiled and annotated by Bill Brewster of djhistory.com and produced in association with Factory Records Ltd.

curmudgeon, Thursday, 27 October 2011 04:36 (ten years ago) link

one year passes...

"Do The Du" sounds kind of like "Immigrant Song." (Way worse singer, though.)

xhuxk, Thursday, 28 March 2013 16:36 (eight years ago) link

four years pass...

This is great. More of a new tune than a remix. Wish ACR would go into the studio more often.

https://soundcloud.com/barryadamsonselections/i-got-clothes-acrmcr-rework

Jeff W, Saturday, 23 September 2017 22:02 (four years ago) link

ten months pass...

Oh look they just did.

new:acr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=220&v=wrwjo2v-F3s

Jeff W, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 19:48 (three years ago) link

try again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrwjo2v-F3s

Jeff W, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 19:49 (three years ago) link

also featuring Tony Wilson at the start!

acr:set incidentally is a career-spanning comp that will be released on October 12th

Jeff W, Wednesday, 8 August 2018 19:51 (three years ago) link

seven months pass...

acr:box to be released next month, including:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc_7s3G_IIc
Fairly faithful to the original, sounds great though I wish Grace Jones would have finished her vocal take..

willem, Thursday, 4 April 2019 14:21 (two years ago) link

Two versions as well, I wonder what the difference is?

MaresNest, Thursday, 4 April 2019 14:35 (two years ago) link

two years pass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIRGhm8KKbk

Maresn3st, Sunday, 17 October 2021 23:51 (one month ago) link

one month passes...

This is surprisingly great, not familiar with their 21st century work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vIQafS1RQE

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Wednesday, 17 November 2021 19:29 (two weeks ago) link


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