mos def- quasi homosexual?

Seems a little...gauche.

well what does he mean then?

Well, having not heard the whole passage in question, I can't really answer that with any conviction.

But judging by the other people/businesses - viacom, cocaine, aol and time warner and MTV etc - you say Mos Def mentions, there doesn't seem to be any actual complaining going on. Perhaps he's commenting on the gay:straight ratio in the world's media companies, or maybe he's having a go at those who think it's big and clever to camp it up when not actually gay at all (which seems a little harsh, given the amount of gay men who play it straight).

Either way, I'm not convinced there's anything untoward about *bringing ones attention to something of which he's recently become aware. Just observations, no?

Then again, maybe (just maybe) he's resignedly conceding his lot. I mean, it's not like he's suffered unduly at the hands of Viacom or MTV...has he? A strange combination of stating the obvious ("oooh, big corporations run the show SHOCKAH") and, er...yeah, you're right, there is something a little unsavoury about the juxtaposition.

Wow, that didn't scan too well.

I hope he's not a bigot, I really do. Dammit. It's never occurred to me before that he might be, but then I don't listen to hip-hop for the lyrics...

Casting aspersions on someone's sexual preference in this manner seems like antagonism, not simply observation.

Yeah, but only because it was said in the same breath as the other stuff. If it had been on its own we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Or...

...which is a lame quasi-insult at the end of the day.

Charlie No. 4, I'd like, as a woman residing in New Yawk, to take issue with the stereotype of gay men being effiminate.

I never said that. Of all the gay men I've met, I reckon the split is 50/50 gay acting/straight acting. The only *genuinely* effeminate man I've ever met isn't gay at all.

What I was trying to illustrate, albeit pretty clumsily, was that *if* Mos Def were indeed taking issue with the sexuality (or more specifically, the outwardly perceived sexuality-based mannerisms) of certain people who may or may not run "this rap shit", he's on extremely thin ice because just as many gay men act (yes, stereotypically) "straight" as straight men act (stereotypically) gay, to fit in, to get ahead, or for whatever other daft-headed reason. So he has no real target.

I didn't mean to imply that acting effeminate=acting gay! Different ballparks, different games, different *continents*, surely?

Kate to thread...

What I've never understood is why hip hop has had the biggest problem of all musical genres acclimmating to 21st century social norms? Well, okay. Hip hop and death metal.

Who knows? Mos prob'ly feels some credibility heat. Which is stupid but not surprising. But being Mos, he can't go all the way, which just makes him end up sounding worse. The curse of the crossover artist.

I currently have a theory that only educated black people understand AND like "Bamboozled".

Regarding the main thrust of the thread, yeah, that's a pretty awkward covering-yr-ass line. I would hope he regrets it.

Oh yeah, and is Mos ever going to come out with a proper followup to Black On Both Sides, or is he putting all his energies into becoming an Actor now?

50 cent: oiled-up, shirtless, muscular man

LL Cool J: oiled-up, shirtless, exaggeratedly lip-licking, muscular man

puffy: lip glossed, man-servant havin', oiled-up occasionally shirtless man

fabolous: lip glossed, elvis-sneering man

busta rhymes: lip glossed, oiled-up shirtless man

B2K: lip glossed, oiled-up, shirtless, elvis-sneering little boys

pharrell (neptunes): shirtless, oiled-up skinny man

the VIDEO/PHOTO image that is presented by many of these artists is definitely created with homo-erotic sensibilities; that is, in addition to the obvious target demographics, created to be APPEALING to men who find other men appealing. billy woodruffe had a major influence in the look of contemporary 'urban' videos, and he definitely tried to make sure that the men he directed were appealing to the little girls and the grown boys. so it COULD be (aaaah, speculation...) that mos def was commenting on the fact that many popular urban artists are designed to appeal in ways that fly right over the head of the average 14-21 yr. old 50 cent fan.

in my opinion, he could have just as easily said "quasi pedophiles..." and meant the same sort of thing (avril, britney, etc. are designed to appeal to your inner pedophile, as well as the pedophile next door)

ps. there was an article in the village voice about the whole "homo-thug" movement, but i can't remember when it came out

pps. lets not forget about: hair band/new romantic/show tune culture; hell, as a kid i was clueless as to freddie mercury & george michael

ppps. if 50 cent was oiled-up, lip-glossed and wearing designer halter/tank tops while selling crack in queens, then my theory is damaged- that's just his steez and has nothing to do with designers & image consultants guiding his look.

I really don't think that stylists are oiling up MCs in order to make them appeal to Homosexuals, but then again I'm not a stylist/manager/record label owner.

I'm pretty sure other social/racial groups apart from white liberals (a group i do not belong to) have the worldview that homophobia is the last refuge of the fucknut.

as far as who the 'oily nude man' is supposed to appeal to, i did state that the homo-erotic appeal was "in addition to the obvious target demographics". yes, the all-important 15 yr. old squealing teen is the bullseye, but there are definitely guys who dug brad pitt in "fight club" for his physical beauty & sex appeal as much as for his acting.

gotta confess though- my narrow excuse/explanation for mos def's comments has been influenced by conversations i've had with brothers here in dc, as well as some inside info i got from a friend who used to work with billy woodruffe

so- even if i haven't accurately decoded mr. def's intent, i always did wanna kick these concepts around with others who spend an inordinate amount of time examining the imagery in pop culture.

ps. homophobe or not, there's a definite sense of mos def back-pedaling from the "conscious/positive rapper" tag.

How many degrees separate "quasi" from "pseudo"? One? Two, maybe? So Mos Def made a comment that fake homosexuals (partly) run the rap game. That is, not actual homosexuals, just folks that feign homosexuality to appear legitimate?

Does that make Kevin Kline (see: In & Out homophobic, too? And what about Daniel Auteuil (see: The Closet?

Unbunch your pants and relax kids, I'm sure you won't find Mos Def gunning down gays with his Tek-9.

(Oops. Does that comment make me racist?)

cheap shots about some guy acting as though hes gay = almost institutionalised homophobia???/

i mean, i guess not, but in answer to yr question, i take issue with the idea of homophobia = this sort of formula (you say this, do that etc - your homophobic), and its reverse (hey just put in these qualifiers and make sure you dont say XY or Z, and its not homophobic). what i really mean is, basically the same thing that nabisco said on this 'in the ghetto' thread thread - maybe its not homophobia, but it betrays a sort of implicit 'gay = supafunny' sort of thing. hence my use of 'institionalised' even though i know its wrong. whats the term for when its seemingly buried deep in the er...sort of societal consciousness?

anyway this makes me sound like a raving "16 years of age or hyper-sensitive members of their campus' Politically Correct to a Fault club." type.

but thats mainly because even if Mos Def is convinced that a sort of cartel of camp-acting shadowy figues were running hip hop, like why the fuck would he think that?

Gays are normally not seen in a positve light in hip-hop and I was curious as to what Mos Def was getting at. It's pretty obvious to me that camp guys are not running hip-hop, so it looks like its a comment that homosexuals (ie not gays but those who are not real men, suckers, bitches...fill in any derogatory statements used by ignorants) are running hip-hop.

If you truly believe Mos Def has stumbled upon the gay illuminati...then i give up.

also,

"Gays are normally not seen in a positve light in hip-hop and I was curious as to what Mos Def was getting at. It's pretty obvious to me that camp guys are not running hip-hop, so it looks like its a comment that homosexuals (ie not gays but those who are not real men, suckers, bitches...fill in any derogatory statements used by ignorants) are running hip-hop.

If you truly believe Mos Def has stumbled upon the gay illuminati...then i give up."

good point- if you think that all homosexuals are campy men

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0005/trebay.php

ultimately, somebody needs to ask mos def what he meant in order to get to the bottom of your question- if i see him before you do, i'll try to get an answer

anyway. "side b freestyle," "re:definition," and "next universe" randomly came up near each other this morning. has there ever been an mc who tracked such a steep, early upward curve and then seemingly walked away? sure, there's still guest shots and he keeps threatening blackstar 2 and a follow-up to black on both sides, but will any of that ever really surface? mos seems to have moved comfortably into movie star/hip hop statesman role very early. not a problem with that, honestly, hello ford prefect but!

i kind of overlooked "next universe" at first but mos is in fire. he can barely restrain himself, hitting the end of each line so hard he's almost shouting, switching up and doing funny things like the choke ("like 'oh!'") and just running straight into a perfect semi-old school chorus. his verse on "re:definition" is fantastic too, though pertinent to this thread he throws in that "cats who claimin they hard be mad fags" line that, while not totally objectionable, just doesn't sound great coming out of a guy who's so quick. then he drops blue gelatin, duke ellington and barrington levy in succession and why doesn't this guy make records anymore?

was mos supposed to be the proto-kanye link between (self-determined) underground and (self-determined) overground? who didn't want him on their record in '99?