REM: Classic or dud?

And I've honestly not really been able to listen to them since. Memory tells me that the first album or so is OK. The myth of REM, that they came along and saved American rock or something, always struck me as odd - did American rock need 'saving'? I'm not that up on my history of early 80s US rock, but the ecstatic reception of REM strikes me as being a kind of reaction to punk - OK the need for new music is appreciated, but does it have to be this noisy and nasty? Ah, here come some 'proper songs', good. A similar thing happened in the UK with the - perceived - difference between new wave and post- punk, maybe.

We'll give them dud, for kicks.

Tom, I think the way college radio (and students) embraced REM in the 80s was more of a reaction against new wave than it was punk. Something about the Byrdsian harmonies/guitars was so firmly "rock" (and more specifically American rock) and yet also perceived as "different" (probably due to the muttered vocals and murky production.) That's a powerful combination when you're talking about an American pop music movement. I always felt like REM existed beside the punks pretty easily, touring w/ Husker Du and The Replacements and so on.

That said, having missed out on REM the first time round, about from the indie disco classics, I've been having a go at their early records. So in two months I may be a fan, but on current form, probably not...

Basically REM sucks eggs. "Real World" by Matchbox 20 is a lot better than any REM song. The best thing about REM is that they still show "My Breakfast with Blassie" sometimes on TV.

I like everything pre-Green - I think that LRP and Document may be the masterpieces, for all their US80srock flourishes. The repetitive jangle of things like 'Cuyahoga', 'Welcome To The Occupation' or 'Heron House' is the sort of predictable thing I like (but I could never have predicted it). I must admit, I do like a lot of the 90s material too: I liked Out Of Time when it came out, recognize that there are good tracks on Automatic (but it got so grotesquely overrated), even have a soft spot for Monster ('I Don't Sleep, I Dream' is splendidly large, thudding and echoing), despite its lack of melodic quality. The real clunker, in my book, is New Adventures In Hi-Fi - BY FAR the worst REM record ever. After that, Up could only be a move up, and it has its moments (none better than 'Daysleeper', as far as I recall). Still, by the mid-90s there was something sadly insufferable about the tone, the image, the projected persona(e) of REM.

Rock and roll is deader than jazz, anyway. The answer to all your questions is, yes, REM really does suck as much as it seems, now that you've emerged from your childhood. Christ, I'd rather hear the Cowsills on any given day than those smarmy assholes.

Just my humble opinion...

REM "reveal" melodic side once more

There seems to be an awful lot of hatred quietly sedimented into those otherwise meaningless claw-quotes, or am I just projecting?

As opposed to apparently every critic around the world, I'm quite disappointed by Reveal. The last thing we need now is another apathetic 'Hey, everything will be alright' album. The tunes are pretty enough but I can't hear anything with the passion of Murmur or Lifes Rich Pageant. Maybe the computers just took it out of them a little.

Records I like in the zero decade include: Lloyd, The Negatives; 6ths, Hyacinths & Thistles; Costello / Mutter, For The Stars; B&S, FYHCYWLAP. Of these, I think Lloyd's is the best. EC does what he does. 6ths and B&S are patchy by their authors' standards. I can't think of many others.

Yeh, anything after 'document' or even 'lifes rich pageant' for that matter is supsect but ya kind of had o be there to understand the significance at the time.....

I but them at this time at of sentimentality

xpost:
tim, i think that post could cut both ways...

still classic, even if i hardly ever take these discs off the shelf any more. i used to debate the merits of gardening at night with my trig teacher.

I thought The Great Beyond was a lovely single, as was Imitation of Life (even Bad Day fits into this category), but those seem more like lucky accidents than an indication that they could record an entire album as consistent as those 15 years ago.

If "Hi-Fi" had ended with "Be Mine," it'd be classic REM, probably in my top four or five.

having missed the monster tour - which would've been awesome as a high schooler - i was equally thrilled to see them on the UP tour as a college senior. they were ecstatic and did their best to include some older stuff...that the crowd booed!

once they moved from dance clubs to theatres

Gehman* obv

Gehman otm. The band got what it wanted: "Fall on Me" on AOR radio, their first gold album, etc.

Having skipped the last few albums, Every Day Is Yours To Win is a lovely discovery for me. Good pick, Mike.

Reckoning was treated worse, and the Murmur picks are odd.

here's a half assed theory: from having listened to many REM bootlegs from the early years up through Green they played those Reckoning/Murmur songs soooo much, the ones I see here (We Walk, So Central Rain) stand out as being either not a song they played a lot live, or are a little different than the rest of the album. We walk stands out on Murmur because of the beat, So Central Rain stands out because it's the catchiest poppiest song on the record. I dunno. I'm guessing they like playing the hits like Fall on Me, but great songs like Harborcoat got worn out by playing them so much

bet you’re right

Bertis Downs adds a few more

Ten more, Bertis’s version:

Gardening at Night
Turn You Inside-Out
Life and How to Live It
Walk It Back
Horse to Water
Photograph
Green Grown the Rushes
Maps and Legends
Carnival of Sorts (Boxcars)
Monty Got a Raw Deal

Waiting for Kate Pierson's top 2 list.

I’d wait for Jefferson Holt’s Top 10, but I guess the terms of his settlement make that unlikely.

Bertis gets it re: fables!

https://xpn.org/2023/06/29/a-28-year-old-r-e-m-song-gets-a-new-life-in-the-bear/

Saw that show tonight with Michael Shannon and friends, including Jason Narducy and John Wurster (and my guitar teacher) covering"Murmur" in its entirety (plus some deep cuts). It was for the 40th anniversary of the Metro; REM had played the club's first ever show. Super cool icing on the cake, Mike Mills showed up to sing on about a half dozen or so songs! Shaking Through, 1,000,000, Swan Swan H, These Days ... He was having a blast, and the whole night ruled. I'll post some videos once other people put them up.

I was there too! Loved it.

https://scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/364175731_5836574386442069_2206285378740769288_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s1080x2048&_nc_cat=111&cb=99be929b-59f725be&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Sw--mgTRob4AX-xB2uo&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.xx&oh=00_AfBwEjFHZJniZVFHXVbDAw9CiX6q8lnGtjhlNbI_Ib5TvQ&oe=64CD58D0

smh tv shows… for a second there I thought that both REM and Steely Dan had a long lost outtake called “The Bear”

Good god, extreme FOMO (or AAMO, anguish at missing out?) about that Metro show! (I mean, I would have had to go to Chicago, but had I known that was happening and that Mills was showing up, I might have!

Here's one of a few clips I found (this one sans Mills, but the band killing it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjh1TgtG6bg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fymNrKVECg8

Here's a clip from the same dude that has Mills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18eIyXlDvno

they sound great

One fun thing about the show is that it felt like it would be just Murmur start to finish and 1-2 songs for an encore, what you might expect from a pick-up band of this quality. Then they got to the end of the album, did "There She Goes Again" as a quasi-encore, took a short break, and then went on for an hour or more.

Full setlist here. A standout for me was "Nightswimming", with just Shannon singing and keyboards and cello.

Under the Silver Lake used “Strange Frequencies” before The Bear. It plays in its entirety through the end credits

My friend/guitar teacher Curt (manning the Rickenbacker) told me from his perspective that one reason why it didn't feel like a cover band was that focus on early stuff and deep cuts, and no hits.

Had to check to make sure it was THAT Michael Shannon. Had no idea he was a singer and REM fan.

Shannon’s done a bunch of these tribute nights in Chicago, in addition to working with the theater company he’s part of (sometimes onstage, sometimes working the box office). He’s done The Cars, The Smiths, Velvet Underground, a few others I can’t remember (and I never saw one until last night).

He’s doing a live interview tonight for Mark Caro’s Caropop podcast, and when that airs I’m sure he’ll talk about these nights. (And it’s kind of the perfect thing for an actor/musician to do during the WGA/SAG strike.)

It’s also fun that the band felt like basically guys of the same generation, so I imagine they all knew these songs well before rehearsing them for this show (only one rehearsal, according to Wurster’s FB post).

Obviously Stipe has a one-of-a-kind voice, but Shannon fits this very well

This dude has a few more clips:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd8oP3hoRZo

Here's one with Mills (this song ruled):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwqu59yntnU

He also did a Neil Young tribute thing too. I have mixed feelings about all the tributes but I admit at least part of it is the monopoly he holds on such things and the preponderance of men onstage. So my feelings are partially petty but also partially not.

Someone posted most of "Shaking Through," which is a good vantage, especially if you want to see Wurster's sartorial tribute to Berry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn3M3ZBzkJk

For those with access, Tom Breihan just posted his essay on "Orange Crush":

https://www.stereogum.com/2231808/the-alternative-number-ones-r-e-m-s-orange-crush/columns/the-alternative-number-ones/?1690980791

I used to have a great tape of REM's appearance on KCRW's Snap show w/Dierdre Donoghue in 1991, really loose, with lots of chat and impromptu cover versions. Well I lost the tape over time and could only find boots with the chat all cut out but thankfully KCRW have put it up on an online archive, it's a great listen.

https://www.kcrw.com/music/shows/bent-by-nature/rem-out-of-time-acoustic-live-1991

Thought this revive would be about REM tribute act Dead Letter Office, or DLO for short.

good show, MaresNest, thanks for sharing

Ha, I think that interview was on the B-Side of the Bingo Hand Job bootleg cassette I bought in Camden Town, nice to hear it again

I've never heard of this podcast, but the latest ep. = "R.E.M. founding member and bass player Mike Mills waxes nostalgic about his band's iconic 1992 release Automatic for the People": https://ncpodcasts.com/the500podcast

https://www.stereogum.com/2236106/micky-dolenz-rem-covers-shiny-happy-people/music/

Dolenz’s covers EP has the Michael Stipe seal of approval, via RS:

These songs are absolutely incredible. Micky Dolenz covering R.E.M. Monkees style, I have died and gone to heaven. This is really something. ‘Shiny Happy People’ sounds incredible (never thought you or I would hear me say that!!!). Give it a spin. It’s wild. And produced by Christian Nesmith (son of Michael Nesmith). I am finally complete.

Never one of my favorite REM tracks, but this does sound like a good idea.

seems appropriate ... R.E.M. did "(I'm Not Your) Stepping Stone" in a lot of their earliest shows

Dolenz Sings R.E.M. Tracklist:
01. Shiny Happy People
02. Radio Free Europe
03. Man on the Moon
04. Leaving New York

Cool

Daydream BeSleeper

ok, i have to really tip my cap for getting Wuxtry Records into that cover. next best thing would've been the tree that owns itself.

Some commentary by Mike on various songs and other R.E.M.-related things: https://www.vulture.com/article/mike-mills-rem-michael-stipe-superlatives.html

Kind of fascinating how much they (and others) rep for "Reveal." Like, “All the Way to Reno (You’re Gonna Be a Star)” as the best song after Bill left? Really?

Maybe it’s an in-joke

Number six.

Mike talks extensively about Up and other things: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/r-e-m-mike-mills-up-no-reunion-1234867325/

(Mike's a talker these days!)

daaaaamn -- that's a good long interview.

I will now promptly read the whole thing

Thanks for that!