Jefferson Airplane

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I've ended up with the first 4 albums box set - swopped for a load of unwanted stuff at R&TE. I'm struggling - it's horrible. It's shit. How does one approach Jefferson Airplane? I HATE the harmony vocals, I hate Grace Slick. 'Someone To Love' is one of the two songs of theirs I've heard before and it's a good song ruined by Slick's shrill, strident nag. No mystery there, no shade.

The first album is OK in a Leaves, Byrds, sub-Arthur Lee kind of way. The other three - ugh! SUCH a thin production, even for the times, the guitars flop and wallow when they need to drive and push. Kankonen does a few interesting things and I like someo f Casady's bass ideas, but really they're just weak. I can't really comment on the lyrics/sentiments expressed as they may as well be singing in swahili for all the sense the make.

So - am I missing something?

Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 27 June 2003 06:31 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Nope. They have, I think, about 3 1/2 good songs. 'White Rabbit' is a boring novelty song, blah blah.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 27 June 2003 06:35 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Yes. "Lather" is great

dave q, Friday, 27 June 2003 06:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

That's one of my 3 1/2. Also 'Won't You Try', the live version, and I can't remember the others.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 27 June 2003 06:41 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Lather is awful - she sings like a schoolteacher leading the class through 'all things bright and beautiful'. And as for the wierd noises and voices-off....

Dr. C (Dr. C), Friday, 27 June 2003 07:26 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

What, didn't you have a HAWT music teacher when you were 10?

dave q, Friday, 27 June 2003 07:30 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

ah, so THAT'S why you're so talented

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 27 June 2003 07:32 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I like "White Rabbit," mainly because Alice in Wonderland (and haha Go Ask Alice) is one of my favorite books evah. Otherwise, by far the most overrated hippie band in the world. Grace Slick's voice is like having an ice-pick repeatedly jammed in your ear and the other singers are just bleh. The songs are widdly go-nowhere shit, except the one I just mentioned and "Someone to Love," which was better when it was done by S*y St*ne, who's so great he doesn't even deserve to be named in the same post as JA.

They're even worse than the Grateful Dead - at least the Dead didn't evolve into some horrible genetic mutation like "Dead Starship."

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 27 June 2003 07:52 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

It's strange, because I can "stand" Surrealistic Pillow in a way that I can't stand the Dead. I think it's just cause I'm so used to that "wailing women" style of hippie singing because my dad listened to so much of it.

kate (kate), Friday, 27 June 2003 07:54 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

TS: Grace Slick vs. Genya Ravan vs. Sandi Robinson vs. Mariska Veres

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 27 June 2003 08:10 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Surrealistic Pillow is OK. I don't really see what's so annoying about Grace Slick's voice, but then again I love Joni Mitchell so I'm probably immune to wailing hippies. Some of the accoustic stuff on it is pretty pleasant

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 27 June 2003 08:39 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Grace Slick is a "wailing hippie"? I always thought she was some kind of pre-deathrock ice queen with a booming intimidating voice.

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 27 June 2003 08:49 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

cf. "White Rabbit" as covered by the Damned

Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Friday, 27 June 2003 08:50 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i think they didn't "record" well

i heart "white rabbit", its songform is ABCDEFGHI.....

mark s (mark s), Friday, 27 June 2003 08:51 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I still adore that song, maybe cuz I heard surprising late (ie. 3 years ago!)

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 27 June 2003 08:56 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

what JBR said re Slick. I like her almost as much as I like Nico. Which = 'a shitload'

dave q, Friday, 27 June 2003 09:25 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I like the "2400 Fulton Street" compilation - I think that's probably mostly stuff from the first few albums.

My favourite song of theirs might be "Comin' back to me".

James Ball (James Ball), Friday, 27 June 2003 09:40 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

my problem with jefferson airplane was always balin's irritating, keening voice - i can get into just about any grace-dominated song but it took me quite a while to learn to ignore him enough to enjoy their stuff.

i still say "surrealistic pillow" and "after bathing at baxter's" are masterpieces, nuts to you all.

your null fame (yournullfame), Friday, 27 June 2003 13:30 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Embryonic Journey, thats about it.

Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 27 June 2003 13:36 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

i thought Santana was "embryonic Journey"

dave q, Friday, 27 June 2003 13:40 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

nope.

Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 27 June 2003 13:40 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Technically Jorma Kaukonen

Chris V. (Chris V), Friday, 27 June 2003 13:42 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

At least for a while, a great great band. And Grace and Marty are two of my favorite singers evah.

Sean (Sean), Friday, 27 June 2003 14:22 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Jefferson Airplane + Clash = X

Grace also beat Courtney to (Man)hole.

Chris Clark (Chris Clark), Friday, 27 June 2003 14:45 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah, you guys are high... or should be - Surrealistic Pillow is a gem, a perfect snapshot of a time and a place - the production rules, the playing is excellent, and they were the one SF band that actually had HITS. Moby Grape made a better record, but 'Pillow' is pretty subversive stuff to actually get played on the radio.

andy, Friday, 27 June 2003 17:21 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I love JA,'After Bathing at Baxter's','Crown of Creation'& 'Volunteers' are all suberb.Much more interesting than any contemporary rock.

Paul R (paul R), Friday, 27 June 2003 18:05 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

their third album ('baxters') is fucking amazing. give it a try and report back.

j fail (cenotaph), Friday, 27 June 2003 18:32 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
"I Saw You" and "Today" are brilliant (the latter was sampled to great effect by Black Sheep)

eman (eman), Monday, 7 February 2005 08:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

oops "I Saw You" = "Comin' Back To Me"

eman (eman), Monday, 7 February 2005 08:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Here's a chance to laugh at one of my absurd changes of mind - I am really enjoying Airplane now!

Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 7 February 2005 09:57 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Try Hot Tuna next, then. (Especially if you still like Jorma & Jack's bits.)


Actually, if Grace's autobiography is to be believed, Jack's bits were enormous.

Mooro (Mooro), Monday, 7 February 2005 17:17 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I love them too much to be objective, but I think Crown of Creation is their most consistent, Baxter's their most interesting, and Bark their most wild-cardy. I noticed that Kantner's input hasn't been brought up yet: I enjoyed his "historical period" (Bark, Long John Silver) when his lyrics seemed like an intro Joseph Campbell course.

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Monday, 7 February 2005 17:35 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"White Rabbit" and "Mexico." I like those songs.
They're so embarrassing in that footage from "Gimme Shelter," up there. Pretty fucking awful band.

edd s hurt (ddduncan), Monday, 7 February 2005 17:42 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

after bathing is the one

'rejoyce' is incredible, as is 'two heads' (it invents the first throwing muses lp, which is high praise AFAIC)

it's all about slick

also that shrill, treble-bright, highly-strung feel running through the record seems a lot closer to the acid experience than more blissy gambolling through the meadows type stuff

blissblogga, Monday, 7 February 2005 17:43 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"white rabbit" is corny and overrated.

eman (eman), Monday, 7 February 2005 18:08 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

The more you listen to Amon Duul II, the more you realise how much they owe to Jefferson Airplane - but I still prefer ADII. The vocals are a big problem with Jefferson Airplane, I like Grace Slick (tho in small doses) but I hate those songs where everybody in the band bellows along regardless of harmony, tune, metre etc etc etc. "Baxters" has good things on it but too many of the songs sound alike and the noodling experimental stuff on it is shite - "Spare Chaynge"? Give us a break.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 20:56 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Apparently, The Jesus and Mary Chain used to cover "Somebody to Love" live, but I've yet to find a recording.

Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Tuesday, 8 February 2005 21:00 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

jefferson airplane make 90% of the current "psych" glut completely superfluous. you can feel the fuckedupedness in every drum hit, guitar stutter and hippie wailing moment. classic.

deru, Wednesday, 9 February 2005 07:31 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

at this point, it's very easy to take the entire JA career out of context, thanks to time and what they did after. which kinda sucked.

BUT, if you can look beyond what they became and trim away the tripe, there's gems in there. personally, i only have the '66-'70 stuff. so, they go from stoner-hippie to LSD laced acrobatics to neo-revolutionary types in the scope of 4 years and make some great tunes. alot of "takes off" can be forgetable based on the sentiments, but it's actually pretty solid. "pillow", as much as it's overplayed, still has some highlights on it. "baxters" is my favorite, as it's the most tripped out stuff. "crown" has some holdover from that."volunteers" also has moments, but is also the last JA album where everyone's contributing, and for me, that's where it ends.

eedd, Wednesday, 9 February 2005 17:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...
just got "after bathing at baxters", it's excellent.

eman (eman), Saturday, 5 March 2005 04:41 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Better than the Beatles.

Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 9 March 2005 23:45 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

I've loved "We Can Be Together" ever since its use in the 1979 documentary The War At Home. That song is a thing of beauty no matter what came before or after...

Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 10 March 2005 22:17 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Listened to "After Bathing At Baxter's" again recently - rubbish for the most part, worse than I remembered, they just aren't very good songwriters, the vocals are intensely irritating all the way thru the album and tho Jorma Kaukonen is an excellent guitarist I wish he'd play a little less. Right after it I played 13th Floor Elevators (2nd & 3rd albums) and they are just so much better in every single department, save boring ones like professionalism, technique and stuff like being able to play and sing in tune. Plus, I've realised all the bands who copied Jefferson Airplane (e.g. Fairport Convention, United States of America and Amon Duul II) are all light years better than them.

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 11 March 2005 10:29 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

frank, please explain.

J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 11 March 2005 10:47 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Yeah really, do.

A Viking of Some Note (Andrew Thames), Friday, 11 March 2005 12:28 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Dadaismus - the bass lines on every track of Baxter's are what do it for me. none of those bands you listed, Amon Duul 2 excepted, have such great bass playing.

eman (eman), Friday, 11 March 2005 13:46 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

He is a good bass player but do you honestly listen to Jefferson Airplane for the bass playing? Very odd.

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 11 March 2005 13:48 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

heh, i don't mean that's the sole reason i listen to them, but it gives them a trademark sound (at least on baxter's) that those other groups don't have.

eman (eman), Friday, 11 March 2005 18:49 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Can anyone point me to a well-written explanation of how they went from psychedelia in the 60s to slick synth-pop in the 80s? Because I just don't understand how one goes from "White Rabbit" to "Nothing's Gonna Stop Us Now".

Tantrum (Tantrum The Cat), Friday, 11 March 2005 19:25 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Oh, it's easy, it's the same way one goes from "Children of the Future" to "Abracadabra", or from "Paper Sun" to "Back in the High Life Again", or from "SWLABR" to "It's In the Way that You Use It". It's real easy.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 11 March 2005 19:30 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

i found Volunteers and Bathing At Baxters thru my grandma's record collection (she's a yung one), and it was one of those mind-expanding moments for me—both in terms of my own listening habits and also realizing what my older relatives had been exposed to

austinb, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 21:29 (eight months ago) Permalink

like turrican said, neither of them get as much attention as Pillow, but to me they're huge validations of that time when psych was evolving into prog as something more than just "transitional"

austinb, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 21:31 (eight months ago) Permalink

Pillow is my least fave of that run actually (and I'm not saying that to be "interesting" or whatever, as I know it's the canonical choice; I've just never listened to it as much as the others). I think "Takes Off" is way underrated, love that one...

absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 21:33 (eight months ago) Permalink

Baxters has been one of my favourite lps for the last few decades.
They were pretty great live in 68 too.

& I love the song Good Shepherd from Volunteers. As well as Hey frederick & Eskimo Blue Day. Gun Club covered that last one too.

I think Spencer Dryden is one of my all time favourite drummers. I don't like Joey Covington much seems to be too heavy handed and not as fluid or something.

Spencer was Charlie Chaplin's nephew apparently too.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 21:42 (eight months ago) Permalink

There's so much to like about them, but I think Paul Kantner's songwriting is really my favorite aspect of the group. I haven't really studied it, but he seems to have a style that is very intricate and very much his own. He is so brilliant throughout the Baxter's album.

timellison, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 21:59 (eight months ago) Permalink

Yeah, those vocal lines are so distinctive... I don't think I was really attuned to his songwriting "voice" until I got into the Kantner/Slick/etc. offshoot stuff.

absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 22:20 (eight months ago) Permalink

Seems like by this point the hippie dream was dead, songs veering from flimsy idealism (like the living on a farm track) to the bleak war commentary “hey Frederik”.

I think they got even bleaker and better after that: there was their 1970 single "Mexico" (rousing, but also bleak and weary), and--I'm probably alone on this--Bark's "Thunk" is brilliant.

clemenza, Tuesday, 3 April 2018 22:48 (eight months ago) Permalink

I'm listening to Baxter's right now - the dual gtr break that comes in at 1:16 is so f'n gnarly

absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 23:11 (eight months ago) Permalink

("Mexico" is an awesome song, btw -- the bridge kills me. "There are brothers everywhere...!")

absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 23:14 (eight months ago) Permalink

I'm listening to Baxter's right now - the dual gtr break that comes in at 1:16 is so f'n gnarly
(^^I was referring to "The Last Wall of the Castle" in this post, btw)

absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Tuesday, 3 April 2018 23:18 (eight months ago) Permalink

...Baxter's is the one I listen to the most... 'Won't You Try/Saturday Afternoon'!

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 4 April 2018 06:52 (eight months ago) Permalink

Can’t say I’ve heard Mexico, will check that out.

Baxter’s is so good - two heads may be my favourite grace vocal other than frederik

Eris (Ross), Wednesday, 4 April 2018 07:05 (eight months ago) Permalink

Mexico is AMAZING

Grace's piano balladry on Baxter's is also AMAZING. it is oddly one of their albums i listen to most now but in the past i was definitely into the earlier stuff.

surm, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 18:50 (eight months ago) Permalink

sorry no apostrophe intended. "two heads" kills me

surm, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 18:53 (eight months ago) Permalink

omg and actually i meant VOLUNTEERS when i was talking about Grace's piano balladry -- HEY FREDERICK is one of my most memorable moments from her.

#geekingout

surm, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 18:55 (eight months ago) Permalink

All the airplane love makes me happy

Eris (Ross), Wednesday, 4 April 2018 18:58 (eight months ago) Permalink

Great Society is worth checking out too, I do love Darby Slick's guitar. Wish there was a lot more of it.
The solo Grunt label lps are pretty great too, or maybe that's trio plus and solo.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 4 April 2018 19:05 (eight months ago) Permalink

Hey Fredrick is such a stunner

bedraggled vorticist (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 6 April 2018 15:50 (eight months ago) Permalink

Surm Im not quite sure this is up yr alley but you ever hear Silver Spoon?

Grace inventing goregrind w a grand piano in 1971, thats all..

bedraggled vorticist (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 6 April 2018 15:54 (eight months ago) Permalink

https://youtu.be/7Is2OeUZ6Sg

bedraggled vorticist (Drugs A. Money), Friday, 6 April 2018 15:54 (eight months ago) Permalink

Sunfighter is a great alb

absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Friday, 6 April 2018 17:37 (eight months ago) Permalink

Haven't listened to the whole thing since I bought it (30 years ago?), but the one song I love and keep on the hard drive is "When I Was a Boy I Watched the Wolves."

clemenza, Friday, 6 April 2018 18:22 (eight months ago) Permalink

I was listening to it a couple of years ago around the same time i was listening to Howlin Rain and thinking it shared some qualities like a near gospel feel.
THink I was really thinking Manhole and Baron Von Tollbooth when I was saying Grunt label stuff. So should listen to it some more.

Stevolende, Friday, 6 April 2018 19:47 (eight months ago) Permalink

Manhole rules. So does Baron Von Tollbooth. And Dragonfly. And yeah, Sunfighter. I grew up on this stuff.

brimstead, Friday, 6 April 2018 23:10 (eight months ago) Permalink

& the very early live sets by Jefferson Starship have the band playing tracks from at least Manhole live. I'm thinking of a few from 1974 that I have.

Stevolende, Saturday, 7 April 2018 06:25 (eight months ago) Permalink

I looked at a bunch of albums over the weekend that a friend's brother was scrapping, and ended up taking about 50. Best of all was a perfect copy of Flight Log, poster/book included. I've got all the JA albums except 30 Seconds Over Winterland, so I already have most of it, but it's something I always wanted and never bought at the time. I really noticed "Have You Seen the Saucers" for the first time--I've had Early Flight for ages, but somehow it escaped my attention. (I love "Mexico" so much, I guess I got sidetracked.) Great song. Christgau praises it in one CG entry, makes fun of it the next. He got it right the first time.

clemenza, Tuesday, 10 April 2018 00:55 (eight months ago) Permalink

Oops--it's not "Have You Seen the Saucers," it's "Have You Seen the Stars Tonite?" from Blows Against the Empire. Which I don't have, so that explains it.

clemenza, Tuesday, 10 April 2018 00:59 (eight months ago) Permalink

That whole LP is klassic!

absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Tuesday, 10 April 2018 01:19 (eight months ago) Permalink

that album is great! it's a trip!

brimstead, Tuesday, 10 April 2018 01:47 (eight months ago) Permalink

Blows really is a great album - I especially get a kick out of 'Mau Mau Amerikon' cause it's like everyone assumed 'We Can Be Together' was the pinnacle of Kantner's revolution-speak lyrics and he went 'pff, I was just getting started', haha. "Rabid lover-feelin' the starch in your grin Callin' for acid cocaine and grass" etc

whitehallunity, Tuesday, 10 April 2018 02:39 (eight months ago) Permalink

Just listened to Manhole for the first time. This is killer! I feel as if - especially on the title track - this is how I always wanted to hear Grace Slick sing. Her obsession with Spanish music is right up front on those first two tracks.

Josefa, Friday, 13 April 2018 21:32 (eight months ago) Permalink

five months pass...

RIP Marty, goddamn what a voice.

brimstead, Friday, 28 September 2018 23:01 (two months ago) Permalink

RIP, gonna spin "Coming Back To Me" when I get home

sleeve, Friday, 28 September 2018 23:03 (two months ago) Permalink

What a voice, yes.

clemenza, Saturday, 29 September 2018 00:40 (two months ago) Permalink

Today...I feel like pleasin you...more than before
Marty!

calstars, Saturday, 29 September 2018 01:45 (two months ago) Permalink

If you only you believe in Miracles...such a smooth yet haunted sounding voice.

earlnash, Saturday, 29 September 2018 04:50 (two months ago) Permalink

so long marty, will always love those airplane records

I'd Rather Kecak (NickB), Saturday, 29 September 2018 06:07 (two months ago) Permalink

Really saddened by this... such an amazing, smooth, sultry, sweet voice - whether on his own or as such a perfect counterpoint to Grace Slick. And an excellent songwriter too.

Lee626, Saturday, 29 September 2018 10:35 (two months ago) Permalink

Damn, RIP

The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r), Saturday, 29 September 2018 13:16 (two months ago) Permalink

There's a nice Facebook post from Jorma Kaukonen that showed up on my wall twice removed. It's a little long...would it be a breach of some sort to post it here? It looks like it was meant to be widely disseminated.

clemenza, Saturday, 29 September 2018 14:19 (two months ago) Permalink

Easily my favorite vocalist of that group. Grace tends toward stridency and Paul couldn't sing a lick. His was a fine, blue eyed soul voice. Besides the obvious JA material, i always liked, nay loved his mid to late 70s JStarship tunes also. And even his solo hit Hearts, which would make a fine song for Al Green himself!

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Saturday, 29 September 2018 14:24 (two months ago) Permalink

Went down into the crowd to try to stop things at Altamont and got punched

timellison, Saturday, 29 September 2018 19:49 (two months ago) Permalink

Not only that, it looks like he got shoved off the stage @ around 4:40 in the clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLWhRDkJSWE

Ubering With The King (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 29 September 2018 20:10 (two months ago) Permalink

I love his voice, yeah. The combination of his and Slick's really makes some of the early Jefferson Starship stuff for me.

The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r), Saturday, 29 September 2018 23:04 (two months ago) Permalink

Seems like the world would have had a lot fewer people had "Miracles" not been written.

Ubering With The King (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 1 October 2018 03:08 (two months ago) Permalink

It's an amazing song, the way it builds and swells, and yeah the sexiness of it. Very unique. I remember precisely where I was when I first heard it and probably so do a lot of people

Josefa, Monday, 1 October 2018 03:16 (two months ago) Permalink

Today and With Your Love are my faves. eerie transcendent power of love.

Paul, Thursday, 4 October 2018 10:29 (two months ago) Permalink

Old enough that I bought Spitfire on release, just as I was beginning to love the Airplane via Worst Of.

clemenza, Thursday, 4 October 2018 11:50 (two months ago) Permalink

After Bathing at Baxters is yer man innit.
Quite quite scrumptuous.

Stevolende, Thursday, 4 October 2018 13:54 (two months ago) Permalink


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