SHISTY - "I Luv U"

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it's the dizzee rascal answer record!

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 June 2003 15:20 (eighteen years ago) link

the garage rap "no pigeons"!

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 June 2003 15:20 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm not sure if a.) it's the girl from the original "i luv u" or b.) it's actually any good, but this record is hella exciting to me for some reason this morning

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 June 2003 15:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Same beat/music?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 June 2003 15:34 (eighteen years ago) link

mm hmm

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 June 2003 15:36 (eighteen years ago) link

I be intrigued.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 26 June 2003 16:03 (eighteen years ago) link

D to the itto

stevem (blueski), Thursday, 26 June 2003 16:05 (eighteen years ago) link

it's on slsk

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 June 2003 16:06 (eighteen years ago) link

is it good

robin (robin), Friday, 27 June 2003 00:06 (eighteen years ago) link

yes

nick.K (nick.K), Friday, 27 June 2003 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link

shystie has done stuff w/entice & from what limited amount i know of her rap style--which is generally on the faster, cutting staccato and high-toned side--she's def. not the lady on the original. She's kinda young and had some maje labes in her grille in britain earlier this year and apparently she's worked w/mike skinner?, but don't know who she signed with. if you're still operating within the vinyl idiom, you can order the white label of this from puregroove.

truant (truant), Sunday, 29 June 2003 09:28 (eighteen years ago) link

Yes. It good.

Shisty will make the word 'prat' hip.

jadrenos (jadrenos), Sunday, 29 June 2003 09:51 (eighteen years ago) link

Lady on the original was a girl from Dizzee's neighbourhood called Janene or sumting. I don't think she's releasing singles.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 30 June 2003 00:07 (eighteen years ago) link

it is good and its quite mad how they've got a new girl and guy with mostly completely new lyrics over the same track but using the same hey hooks and patterns from the original vocal...this isn't even that common in hip hop or dancehall is it? i mean doing it in the same way as this cover version/karaoke/remix/response style does it.

stevem (blueski), Monday, 30 June 2003 02:08 (eighteen years ago) link

see: debreca - 21 questions

minna (minna), Monday, 30 June 2003 03:38 (eighteen years ago) link

Haven't heard this yet Steve but what you describe doesn't sound that different from Lady Saw's "Son of a Bitch" (her brilliant answer record to Shaggy's "It Wasn't Me").

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 30 June 2003 05:59 (eighteen years ago) link

the lyrics on Shisty are arguably as good as the ones on the Dizzee track and its arguably as strong a record, thats the exciting thing.

stevem (blueski), Monday, 30 June 2003 11:48 (eighteen years ago) link

better quality mp3, smaller in size than the one on soulseek

stevem (blueski), Monday, 30 June 2003 17:33 (eighteen years ago) link

she's not the girl from I Luv U...

check for her as part of a female MC feature in the new issue of Deuce magazine.

martin (martin), Monday, 30 June 2003 20:25 (eighteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...
er....it srruck me that shisty isnt really that good.
although i like the men in the answer bit, laughing.

ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 08:16 (eighteen years ago) link

this record still makes me very happy.

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 08:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Shisty sounds fine - but the men's voices almost rival the girl from the Dizzee track for excellence

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 10:31 (eighteen years ago) link

dunno, i just think she sounds a bit crpa, and kinda...clumsy.
on a totally different note, it sounds like shes asian; dont know why i think this but...are there any asian mcs in garage that are getting any props/being played on pirates?

ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 10:37 (eighteen years ago) link

pff, dizzie's original was more feminist. by the by ambrose is right, she clatters all over the beat but it coulda still been good

Chip Morningstar (bob), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 11:34 (eighteen years ago) link

like what is she answering anyway?

Chip Morningstar (bob), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 11:37 (eighteen years ago) link

this record is a real dud...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 11:38 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah it's not feminist enough for my tastes

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:05 (eighteen years ago) link

fucking english

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:10 (eighteen years ago) link

come on lets slap their sunburnt shoulders

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:16 (eighteen years ago) link

let's argue about how feminist their hip-hop is

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:17 (eighteen years ago) link

it's not hip hop... you americans miss the point at every turn w/ this stuff...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:24 (eighteen years ago) link

been reading too many dizzee interviews I guess (or paying attention to his wardrobe)

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:28 (eighteen years ago) link

it's feminist emo

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:28 (eighteen years ago) link

...(or listening to the music)(or watching the videos)(or reading daft comparisons to tupac)...

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:29 (eighteen years ago) link

whats your problem with Shisty then Dave?

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:29 (eighteen years ago) link

his problem = it's not dizzee rascal?

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:30 (eighteen years ago) link

i just think it's a duff record - the mcing grates on me something rotten

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:33 (eighteen years ago) link

Dave that "it's not hiphop" line is ridiculous

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:39 (eighteen years ago) link

how is it ridiculous?

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:45 (eighteen years ago) link

IT IS NOT HIP HOP
what's more i have been involved with this music for a v long time and can catergorically say it is not. if you say it is, then you leave the door open for someone else to say it's techno, which it plainly isn't either.

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:45 (eighteen years ago) link

next someone will say it's pop music

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:46 (eighteen years ago) link

i think the problem is that a lot of people have heard dizzee rascal in isolation from the rest of the garage/grime scene and lump, in the same way indie kids would call the streets garage

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:48 (eighteen years ago) link

exactly, americans particularly...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:51 (eighteen years ago) link

haah - so comparison's between this and the roxanne sagas is apples and oranges?

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:52 (eighteen years ago) link

meanwhile, one of you should really tell dizzee he ain't making hip-hop before he does another interview

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 12:53 (eighteen years ago) link

actually i quite like listening to it in a sort of masochistic way, but mainly just for that laugh.

ambrose (ambrose), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:01 (eighteen years ago) link

"if we say it's this or that, then that settles it"

Awesome! Hey you guys: The White Stripes are gabba

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:02 (eighteen years ago) link

Jesse Colin Young is NYHC

J0hn Darn1elle (J0hn Darn1elle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link

i reckon americans might well believe that last statement john...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link

But in your original post you were pretty much doing the same thing bludd

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 13:04 (eighteen years ago) link

oh man, my sympathies mato!

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link

haha

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link

i said i was guessing! jesus, can't you limeys read.

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:36 (eighteen years ago) link

it's like some mass cultural myopia since they finally got an mc who can actually ride a beat! go on, kill us with your big dicks!

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:38 (eighteen years ago) link

SHUT UP FASS DONT U KNO STEVIE HYPER D

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:41 (eighteen years ago) link

i also call him a cross between ghostface and paddington bear

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:43 (eighteen years ago) link

Boy In Da Corner could just as easily be a 'South or North London album' i think, whatever that even means, heh

apart from the bit where he's yelling about being from bow e3 and bigging up the hackney massive (of which i am one)...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:45 (eighteen years ago) link

you won't understand! you can't understand!

James Blount (James Blount), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:46 (eighteen years ago) link

Boy In Da Corner could just as easily be a 'South or North London album' i think, whatever that even means, heh

apart from the bit where he's yelling about being from bow e3 and bigging up the hackney massive (of which i am one)...

i also call him a cross between ghostface and paddington bear

that's fair enough, but he's still not hip hop...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:46 (eighteen years ago) link

would it have been better if i had called him a cross between the ragga twins and the gay one out of "are you being served?"

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:48 (eighteen years ago) link

THE GAY ONE?!?!?

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:48 (eighteen years ago) link

john inman's the name yr looking for and yes, yes, bloody hell yes it would have been!

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:50 (eighteen years ago) link

newsflash to dave: no one in america knows who the ragga twins are

hell, i don't even know if the ghostface reference will pass the "american-readers-are-idiots" alarm

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:52 (eighteen years ago) link

i realise that and was kidding as much as you, it's just a great juxtaposition and made me laugh

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:53 (eighteen years ago) link

i will probably have to settle for "benny hill and mc hammer"

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:56 (eighteen years ago) link

haha just4ulondon: But this isn’t a hip-hop record either, despite the fact that it foregrounds beats and rhymes. (Big deal, so a does a Celine Dion record.)

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:57 (eighteen years ago) link

eminem and quentin crisp

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:58 (eighteen years ago) link

frank spencer and method man

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 15:58 (eighteen years ago) link

(Big deal, so a does a Celine Dion record.)

spesh when she's doing dancehall - my spine still crawls w/ horror at the memory of listening to this...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 16:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Ol' Dirty Bastard and The Wombles

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 16:01 (eighteen years ago) link

don't forget to mention how it's really dark, humourless, is made by a teenager, he's the voice of a generation (a bit like kurt cobain), 2pac was also a rapper and a black man

sean g, Wednesday, 16 July 2003 16:01 (eighteen years ago) link

John Lydon and Alf Garnett's black tenant in In Sickness And In Health

stevem (blueski), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 16:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Steve is the winner!

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Wednesday, 16 July 2003 16:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Despite being Australian, I'm sympathetic to Dave's line of argument, not because I think that conceptualising Dizzee as hip hop is wrong but because it's just right enough to have a big influence on how garage sees itself. I think that the connections b/w garage and rap are great and healthy, but I equally think that garage needs to retain a level of distance that will allow it to also be open to dancehall, rave, etc. and continue to fulfil its role as the great intersection/market-hall of different black dance music ideas that it has been to date.

Of course US hip hop is actually a lot more like this cross-section now than it has been in a while, but it's been around for long enough that its image of itself is watertight and a couple of bhangra beats aren't going to damage that too much. Garage is too young though to be tied comprehensively to another genre with all its baggage in tow - if garage rap becomes "UK hip hop" I can see it easily drifting towards DJ Premier style hip hop claccisism.

One of the values of the current "riddim" style arrangement is that it helps to remind us that this music is developing on a dual tract - on one hand there's changes to MC-ing, and on the other hand the music is constantly developing and mutating. The sense of the music and the MC being equally valued and emphasised reminds me of dancehall, and like dancehall the scene is caught halfway in development from a former style (let's call this style "rave", but obv. I'm meaning the hardcore continuum up to and including 2-step; in Jamaica's case it's reggae) and hip hop.

I think dancehall has managed to find a really healthy position where it can continue to constantly accrete and accumulate hip hop ideas and influences, while working that successfully into a framework that is firmly tied to the roots of its own culture (I can imagine garage being like dancehall as well in that, despite being MC dominated, the scene will continually produce "throwbacks" to earlier stages of the hardcore continuum in the same way that Sizzla will record lots of "traditional" dancehall/reggae songs). If dancehall hadn't been able to retain this independence, its relationship to US hip hop wouldn't be nearly so interesting or productive, because beyond the Diwali riddim and bhangra beats, the real lure of dancehall from a US Hip Hop perspective is its essential alienness - an alienness that must be stronger than the novelty of regional hip hop stylings (eg. Dirty South), for why else does dancehall sound so utterly fresh every time it makes a periodic assault on the national consciousness?

I think this is the basis for a lot of the anxiety that many feel over garage rap becoming "UK Hip Hop" - the sense that this music taken in context of its historical development has always been sufficiently connected-but-detached that it acts as a continual wellspring for new ideas and new approaches, in a way that actual UK Hip Hop, however meritorious, has not been able to do so. Some may argue that this is because actual UK Hip Hop has not been up to the task, but I think the truth is more fundamental: having defined itself as standing in the shadows of Hip Hop Proper, how can it possibly do anything else?

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 17 July 2003 01:49 (eighteen years ago) link

Actually Tim the problem with 'actual' UK Hip-Hop is that for ages it defined itself as the UK version of US Hip-Hop but wasn't very good, then it realised it needed to stop trying to be American but that also meant stopping trying to be successful, so now it's more like (ahem) 'undie' than anything else with associated suspicion of success. I still like it though!

I finally found a copy of the Dizzee album meanwhile and I'm a bit underwhelmed.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 17 July 2003 07:25 (eighteen years ago) link

thanks Tim. right, let me set out my stall one final time: re garage rap, I think connecting the dots to hip hop, dancehall, drum'n'bass and the rest of hardcore vitally important, necessary and unequivocally correct. the only thing i don't like is the sense of co-option i get from garage rap being simply assessed in terms of us hip-hop without recognition of its independence, sense of self and very specific, complex lineage.
i'm sorry, but james is still wrong because dizzee would be equally unhappy to be seen as pure hip hop as he would straight-up UK garage (cf Vexed on this point). he sees his work as "new british urban music" and this is about right, but not exactly catchy for the neologists among us.
if you stumble across another thread (i can't remember the name of it, otherwise I'd link) you'll see me quite forcefully assert the centrality of hip-hop to the whole hardcore continuum, so i'm not disagreeing about recognising this, particularly in the US where this link will be vital in even getting people to listen to Dizzee et al - but don't let this be your sole interpretive filter, otherwise you're missing many other crucial points.
it's not a matter of me claiming ownership of this music and i have never said people outside its very specific regional strongholds won't understand and can't understand it. all i am doing is bringing a little context to the discussion. after all, it's a fact that i am lucky enough to live where this music is made and have some considerable record of involvement with it. quite simply it's a lot more than a soulseek download to me, it's an entire culture that's right on my doorstep.
i'm overjoyed that dizzee is getting so much support all over the world but i have seen an awful of misguided interpretations and absurd conjecture associated with him on ilm. considering some of the outlandish things that have been stated (my fave being that he is quite probably a fan of gene pitney - solely due to someone mishearing a certain lyric... dare i say a prime case of not understanding?), i think it's important to lend some objectivity to proceedings.

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 17 July 2003 09:36 (eighteen years ago) link

and if i've been defensive abt it, it's only coz this stuff matters to me...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 17 July 2003 09:41 (eighteen years ago) link

'actual' UK Hip-Hop is that for ages it defined itself as the UK version of US Hip-Hop but wasn't very good

but any hip hop from a country outside the US would've been seen that way i think, unless you just mean how British rappers sounded on record - but fake American accents? i dont think this was actually that common - and if you listen to late 80s/early 90s hip hop from London, Manchester or Bristol that doesnt seem to be the case at all. the dismissive assumption that British hip hop has always been crap for whatever reason is a view i do not share (it was at least mediocre dammit)

stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:39 (eighteen years ago) link

I like it a lot now Stevem but the earlier stuff I've heard doesn't do much for me (except Betty Boo of course - Blount WONT AND CANT understand her etc etc). But I'm no expert.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:42 (eighteen years ago) link

UK Hip Hop

C90: UK hip hop - the definitive retrospective


i just keep thinking about that Ruthless Rap Assassins/London Posse/Gunshot period around 10-13 years ago and some good tracks came out of it...they probably wouldn't impress anyone now of course but whatever. i think Roots Manuva may be a tad over-rated just because he's not too versatile, but 'Witness' is still one of the best hip hop (whatever that is) tracks of the last 5 years imo.

stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:45 (eighteen years ago) link

i would say the problem is 'British rap acts can't sell like American ones can' rather than 'British rap acts just aren't as good as American ones' which i don't accept. accept that there are fundamental (if narrow) cultural differences between the two nations when it comes to this sort of thing, but you could just as easily say the U.S. has better rock acts, better pop acts etc. (and you'd be right, except the UK throws up all kinds of gems every year in all these genres - the pop and rock ones sell okay, the hip hop ones don't i guess - but Dizzee's sales figures will be quite encouraging i think)

stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:50 (eighteen years ago) link

You like Betty Boo Tico? I do a lot! dizzee's not hip hop!

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:53 (eighteen years ago) link

;-)

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Greatest female rapper ever now writing songs for Girls Alahd shockah...

stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 July 2003 10:54 (eighteen years ago) link

i fancied her quite a bit though not a great fan at the time...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 17 July 2003 11:04 (eighteen years ago) link

i've used up all my tissues, cos there's more serious of issues

stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 July 2003 11:11 (eighteen years ago) link

she was the UK roxanne f'real

stevem (blueski), Thursday, 17 July 2003 11:11 (eighteen years ago) link

i would like to declare here my everlasting love for roots manuva

Chip Morningstar (bob), Thursday, 17 July 2003 11:21 (eighteen years ago) link

i also had quite a thing for cathy dennis (not hip hop either)

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Thursday, 17 July 2003 11:37 (eighteen years ago) link

i hereby renounce my anglophilia on the charge that you are all fuckin nuts

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:03 (eighteen years ago) link

also tom, the album is a "grower"...i was distinctly underwhelmed the first few times too...i listened to it this past sunday, however, and it sounded fucking great (and this is after i wrote 2500 words about it [which i somehow managed to cut down to 900 for print.])

jess (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Yeah I have to admit sitting on a tube train in London is DESPITE BEING ITS PROPER CONTEXT YOU YANK KNOW-NOTHINGS perhaps not the best circs for a first listen.

Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Thursday, 17 July 2003 15:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Maybe you're supposed to listen to it drunk? (I liked it well enough on my one listen, haven't been compelled to relisten.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 17 July 2003 16:03 (eighteen years ago) link

I think I meant re: UK hip hop that whether it's great or not or whether its chart or undie, it's still never going to have the same *impact* that dancehall (or potentially garage rap) will - it's still hip hop. It's doing better to assert itself as a force these days, but only in much the same way that any regional variant of hip hop might.

The value of a semantic separation from hip hop is the chance to form or retain separate core musical values - see for example Miami Bass, which couldn't really have developed the way it did if it had come under the umbrella of hip hop. Of course, its development filtered back into hip hop via dirty south/bounce, but would that shift have seemed as exciting as it had if there wasn't that level of distance and separation beforehand?

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 18 July 2003 04:02 (eighteen years ago) link

i hereby renounce my anglophilia

this coming from a man that thinks, and i quote, that we're "a funny little island"!

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 18 July 2003 08:12 (eighteen years ago) link

and if you think having a thing for cathy dennis is nuts, well, you're gonna love this one. for a while i lived in a town called norwich. it's a bit like the english version of poughkeepsie (not that i've ever been there but it sounds like a dud place to live). this is where cathy dennis is from. my friend was also a big fan. it was his 21st birthday and there was a huge display of cathy dennis stuff in the local hmv including a life-size cardboard cutout of her. i went to the shop, explained the situation and they lat me take cardboard cathy home. i gave her to rob on the day of his birthday. he proceeded to fold her into a sitting position and drove around town with her in the front seat of his car for about a month...

Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:33 (eighteen years ago) link

and then, he ditched her, like all the others...Cardboard Cathy hit the bottle pretty bad but now works in the Lowestoft branch of Aldi.

stevem (blueski), Friday, 18 July 2003 09:40 (eighteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...
Shisty's still good.

jadrenos (jadrenos), Tuesday, 12 August 2003 15:16 (seventeen years ago) link

one month passes...
SHYSTIE
http://www.rwdmag.com/gallery/images/120x120/shys1197rwd.jpg

did anyone buy the 12 of i luv u?

"A whole album is in the pipeline. The b-side to ‘I Love You’ was produced by the Streets and I’m working with him again, as well as going on tour supporting him, I’m really looking forward to that."

sean., Friday, 3 October 2003 19:01 (seventeen years ago) link

hey, wow!

(also: maybe this has been mentioned before, but i was reading an interview w dizzee somewhere and he said he almost titled the album "dizzee new heights" - maybe just an obvious pun but maybe an explicit streets reference?)

mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Friday, 3 October 2003 19:08 (seventeen years ago) link


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