TS: Radiohead vs Burzum

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Guitar rock bands that totally changed their approach!

― dave q, Sunday, 22 June 2003 11:59 (twenty years ago) link

Do 'societies' (as manifested by selected cultural products) have a tendency to get more arsey and nihilistic when all evidence points to their being in decline? (ie, "globalisation is going to turn us into Third World countries" = "oh no soon the Third World will be granted the same value as US"?)

― dave q, Sunday, 22 June 2003 12:00 (twenty years ago) link

Isn't it a manifestation of societies sensing a lack of spirituality in a world of cold ultilitarianism (globalism), and forced by the bankruptcy of religious morality react by embracing romanticism/nihilism?

(if only my english was better, I could express this better...)

Also, isn't it typical that for all the controversy surrounding Vikernes, Hail To The Thief is a far more politically tinted album than any album Burzum ever released.

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 22 June 2003 12:30 (twenty years ago) link

"sensing a lack of spirituality" <<< "ppl are doing stuff for no reason I can understand and even worse, it's benefiting them and might be dangerous to me!"

― dave q, Sunday, 22 June 2003 12:33 (twenty years ago) link

so i thought this was abt radiohead vs Burzum ;-)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 22 June 2003 13:58 (twenty years ago) link

whats wrong with nihilism?

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Sunday, 22 June 2003 14:01 (twenty years ago) link

cuz you can't understand the words! Even worse - sometimes there aren't even any!

― dave q, Sunday, 22 June 2003 14:04 (twenty years ago) link

in the new british nihilist future words will be meaningless, and replaced with cold bruatl acts.

ok seriously, i live in britain, we're generally a relaxed folk, cynical sometimes (but i like that), but its hardly nihilism. anyway, bout radiohead, i havent heard their new album, ive been record shopping a couple of times since it came out, but you know, do i really need a new radiohead album? bearing in mind im no radiohead obsessive (i do like some of their stuff though), i just want to know if HTTT is gonna be worth my while.

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Sunday, 22 June 2003 14:13 (twenty years ago) link

Its solid but get a Burzum record instead.

― original bgm, Sunday, 22 June 2003 14:47 (twenty years ago) link

but im shit scared of viking metal people. especially viking metal arsonist murderers!

― Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Sunday, 22 June 2003 14:53 (twenty years ago) link

Confront your fears! Start with an Enslaved album and work from there!

― original bgm, Sunday, 22 June 2003 15:10 (twenty years ago) link

Hail To The Thief is good. Not a life-altering experience but you're not likely to get very disappointed. And indeed, it's not nearly as good as Filosofem or Hvis Lyset Tar Oss.

Burzum never really approached the old Norse culture thing like Enslaved or the other "Wotan rules ur all gay" viking-fetishists did - it was always those endless depressive repetitive drones with the typical "oh, how I long for ancient times/oh, we have lost our spirituality/oh, how beautiful the night is" lyrics. Shoegazer Metal, really...anyway, that was before he started to make depressive, shoegazer instrumental ambient/folk.

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 22 June 2003 15:52 (twenty years ago) link

radiohead = better coz they are not racist, have never murdered anyone, never set a place of worship ablaze etc...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:05 (twenty years ago) link

Was 'setting a place of worship ablaze' dud due to nobody being in it at the time?

― dave q, Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:07 (twenty years ago) link

how very funny when people are burning synagogues in france, mosques in northern england etc for similarly fucked-up, shit-headed reasons to Vikernes...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:20 (twenty years ago) link

"When those in power use violence against the people, that's bad. But when the people use violence against those in power, that's good!" - Michelangelo Antonioni

― dave q, Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:22 (twenty years ago) link

The reasoning behind it all isn't the problem, but this strategy is completely counter-productive. Getting rid of Judeo-Christianity is a very worthy and defensible goal, but burning a church, although undoubtedly a very satisfying symbolic act, will not help that cause one bit.

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:36 (twenty years ago) link

but without Judaeo-Xtianity there wouldn't be hot Xtian chicks. come on, is there anybody in the world more annoying than Wiccans

― dave q, Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:41 (twenty years ago) link

"When those in power use violence against the people, that's bad. But when the people use violence against those in power, that's good!" - Michelangelo Antonioni

and the award for of 2003's most dumb-assed bit of pseudo-intellectualism goes to...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:44 (twenty years ago) link

(i mean, Judaeo-Xtians are interesting because they pose a challenge, like 'tell me that the organising principles of our entire philosophical/cultural system are wrong, and better make it good cuz I've got the collective testimony of recorded history on my side'. Whereas new age types are like, "I'm so fuckin' special", ie "I'm a creep")

― dave q, Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:47 (twenty years ago) link

Burning mosques is hostile provocation which is usually and rightly dealt with, burning old buildings that nobody's even looked at for centuries is just kind of silly and inneffectual.

― dave q, Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:49 (twenty years ago) link

(Bamiyan statues to thread!)

― enough with the eurocentrism already, Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:50 (twenty years ago) link

Getting rid of Judeo-Christianity is a very worthy and defensible goal

Many, many Jews and Christians might disagree here... personally I have no real theological problems with setting fire to churches as I am agnostic/veering ever closer to atheist. However, the problem I do have is that it's fucking disrespectful to people who do believe in such things, plus it shows a blatant disregard for any potential loss of life such acts could bring about (the "no one was in the church" argument doesn't cut it at all and is incredibly dimwitted - the fact that there's any potential for anyone to get hurt is all that matters), therefore it's not defensible in any way! These were GROWN MEN doing this for crying out loud, it's just deeply, deeply sad!

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:52 (twenty years ago) link

Great White to thread

― dave q, Sunday, 22 June 2003 16:53 (twenty years ago) link

- Getting rid of Judeo-Christianity is a very worthy and defensible goal
- Many, many Jews and Christians might disagree here

and the award for 2003's most obvious remark goes to...

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 22 June 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link

anyway, i don't want to get into a debate about the specifics of vikernes' crimes, just bringing the old "can art be appreciated independently of its motivations?" question up again... my answer's no... however i do cut other instances of prejudice/points of view a lot more slack than i do racist nationalism, so guess I can get on too much of a high horse. murder i generally consider to be a bad thing to do, also...

― Dave Stelfox (Dave Stelfox), Sunday, 22 June 2003 17:06 (twenty years ago) link

besides, what would radiohead ever inspire anyone to burn down? not even the disco (morrissey beat 'em to that one 15 years ago)

― Tad (llamasfur), Sunday, 22 June 2003 17:07 (twenty years ago) link

'rock on, rock on, no serenade, no fire brigade, just a pyromaniac...'

― d leppard, Sunday, 22 June 2003 17:08 (twenty years ago) link

I'm always a bit saddened to see every Burzum thread descend into a kneejerk discussion of Vikernes personal views/actions, as there's so much to say about the music.

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 22 June 2003 17:31 (twenty years ago) link

Man, that Shoegazer Metal tag is perfect. I was actually thinking of putting something off of Filosofem on a mix I'm making for a friend. Varg'd be sharing room with Slowdive, Gas, Kevin Drumm, Terry Riley, Bark Psychosis, etc. It could work I suppose but Great White probably wouldn't.

― original bgm, Sunday, 22 June 2003 17:56 (twenty years ago) link

haha dave stelfox meet dave q.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Sunday, 22 June 2003 18:16 (twenty years ago) link

i'd say he's a crap singer, crap drummer, crap guitarist, but man do those riffs soar like nobody's business. They just pummel their ways into your brain like a jackhammer. Didn't Vikerne's write an essay on repetitive music or something at one point?

― dog latin (dog latin), Sunday, 22 June 2003 18:30 (twenty years ago) link

Vikernes managed to turn every weakness into a strength:
- crap drummer: play only simple patterns without any fancy fills or variation
- crap guitarist: drown everything in fuzz and reverb, and record layers and layers of guitar lines until it all becomes a thick blur (esp. Filosofem)
- crap singer: only sing a one or two verses per song, write loooong songs and lots of instrumentals
- and finally: go MIDI and dump guitars, drums and vocals altogether

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 22 June 2003 18:47 (twenty years ago) link

I'm always a bit saddened to see every Burzum thread descend into a kneejerk discussion of Vikernes personal views/actions, as there's so much to say about the music.

Replace "Burzum" with "Skrewdriver" and "Vikernes" with "Ian Stewart", and you may have an idea why it is like that...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 22 June 2003 20:07 (twenty years ago) link

or you could replace "burzum" with "stryper" and "vikernes" with "michael sweet." or anything, really, it's a funny old game.

― your null fame (yournullfame), Sunday, 22 June 2003 23:30 (twenty years ago) link

musically speaking, I've found more pleasure in listening Burzum. But probably the aprroach change is far more radical in Radiohead considering that being a part of the media rock circus could have tamed their style and they could have gone for a more linear career...
burzum

― francesco, Monday, 23 June 2003 06:25 (twenty years ago) link

Christian: 'tell me that the organising principles of our entire philosophical/cultural system are wrong, and better make it good cuz I've got the collective testimony of recorded history on my side'.
Me: You base your entire philosophical/cultural ideology on a single book that has

been sloppily retranslated through 4 completely different and incompatable language families. had extra chapters added by Gnostic heretics, who were later hunted down and killed off. been edited at the Council of Niciea. extensively reintrepreted by biased zealots until "the true believers" routinely and reflexively preach notions that run counter to the spirit of the original document. attach linkages to other ideologies which run counter to the spirit of the original document. respond to all attempts at logical debate through shunning (or Inquisition)

Christian: (*plugging ears with fingers*) LALALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! I CAN'T HEAR THE POT-SMOKING UNAMERICAN DEVILWORSHIPPING COMMIE HOMO HERESY OF THE BAD NAUGHTY PERSON! LALALALALALALA! NOPE...CAN'T HEAR YOU!

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 23 June 2003 15:19 (twenty years ago) link

Ooops...point two is ambiguous...
The heretics were hunted down. The chapters were not hunted down.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 23 June 2003 15:20 (twenty years ago) link

Or just point them to this.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:09 (twenty years ago) link

I tried the Nietzsche gambit once already. I ended up getting a T-shirt at christmas that read

"God is Dead" - Friedrich Nietzsche
"Friedrich Nietzsche is Dead" - God

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:14 (twenty years ago) link

custos you base yr whole philosophy on a t-shirt which has:

• a lame joke on it

― mark s (mark s), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:47 (twenty years ago) link

I don't agree with the sentiment, mark. I'm just reporting the incident.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 23 June 2003 19:52 (twenty years ago) link

That joke was already lame in 1903.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:07 (twenty years ago) link

Again:
I don't agree with the sentiment, Siegbran. I'm just reporting the incident.
Someone reacted to my Nietzsche-talk by giving me a gift that mocked Nietzsche. I didn't like the shirt or what it said, I'm just telling you that someone gave me one.
Also: custos you base yr whole philosophy on a t-shirt...
Not only is that NOT my philosophy...my philosophy is currently too complex to fit on a t-shirt. So there, mark s. (*blows giant flatulent raspberry*)

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:46 (twenty years ago) link

enough thread hijack...back to the thread already in progress...

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:49 (twenty years ago) link

this thread made me cry with laughter and the cat thinks I've lost it
more please

― Zora (Zora), Monday, 23 June 2003 20:51 (twenty years ago) link

That wasn't meant as criticism towards you, Custos.

― Siegbran (eofor), Monday, 23 June 2003 21:05 (twenty years ago) link

'kay.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 11:51 (twenty years ago) link

New Thread

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Tuesday, 24 June 2003 11:54 (twenty years ago) link

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