When you find out a musician is a prick, can you still listen to their work?

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I had this conversation with a friend, who was a huge Brian Jonestown Massacre fan, up until he saw them in L.A. Apparently the lead singer/guitarist berated the soundman incessantly for various reasons that had nothing to do with the sound, and the band's tambourine player went after a girl in the audience when she told him that he wouldn't be heard if he played with his back to the audience.

After scolding him for a) listening to such a boring band and b) listening to a band with a name that stupid, I wondered if I would lose interest in a band I liked under similar circumstances. I've yet to be faced with such a dilemma.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Sunday, 15 June 2003 22:17 (twenty-three years ago)

rock stars are supposed to be a-holes. it's in the manual.

― keith (keithmcl), Sunday, 15 June 2003 22:21 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah, Anton and company. Many of us can tell stories, and I believe there are general threads on this topic already in the archives. As I was listening to BJM earlier today and because there are a HUGE number of bands lurking in my collection involving people who are pretty well awful, my answer remains unchanged to before -- yes I can, however disappointing that can be.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 15 June 2003 22:23 (twenty-three years ago)

After a particularly unpleasant interview with John S. Hall of King MissileI did for a crappy music mag in the early 90's (he spent the entire interview bitching about how crappy his label treats him), I couldn't listen to King Missile with an open mind again.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 15 June 2003 22:38 (twenty-three years ago)

If I can listen to R. Kelly, despite the fact that he pisses on schoolgirls, I can certainly listen to somebody who has a sour disposition towards their fans.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 15 June 2003 22:40 (twenty-three years ago)

if i'm on the fence about a band, it will make all the difference. but a band of nice people don't mean shit if the music doesn't do it for me.

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Sunday, 15 June 2003 22:41 (twenty-three years ago)

If I narrowed my music selections down to those by people whom I think might actually be reasonably "nice", it would be a very narrow selection indeed.

― JesseFox (JesseFox), Sunday, 15 June 2003 23:07 (twenty-three years ago)

p.s. A friend in L.A. passed along a bit of Hollywood wisdom: If you've heard of him, he's an asshole.

― JesseFox (JesseFox), Sunday, 15 June 2003 23:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I can't. Weird, never realised it before.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Sunday, 15 June 2003 23:38 (twenty-three years ago)

bjm aren't boring.

― keith (keithmcl), Monday, 16 June 2003 01:08 (twenty-three years ago)

Sure, I can. I'll just lose the respect or admiration I had for those people. Not like they care.

― Francis Watlington, Monday, 16 June 2003 01:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't think it really matters if an artist is a bad person, it doesn't make their art any less worthwhile. As Jesse says, if you start cutting out all the art made by anyone who can be considered a jerk or a bad person, you will be left with a rather small selection of art to experience.

It's also important to remember that everyone has good and bad qualities, and that one is in the public eye, their negative traits and bad behavior is often blown out of proportion because most people like to hear bad things about successful people.

― Matthew Perpetua (Matthew Perpetua), Monday, 16 June 2003 01:27 (twenty-three years ago)

I've heard plenty of "Simon LeBon is an asshole" stories before, and I personally haven't exactly been treated 100% warmly by him, but that still doesn't stop me from being a fan (of either the band he's in or his voice). Although, you know, his asshole-ness has been balanced by the fact that Nick Rhodes has an almost-perfect track record in regards to how well he treats the fans. (You wouldn't know it by looking at him, but he is truly a warm and down-to-earth person.) And Warren Cuccurullo is so nice that I have not one but two autographs from him, because every time I've encountered him he's been willing to give out autographs.

Er, I've been kinda spoiled, huh?

― Dee the Lurker (Dee the Lurker), Monday, 16 June 2003 01:30 (twenty-three years ago)

It is nice to be important, but it is important to be nice.

― Mike Taylor (mjt), Monday, 16 June 2003 02:20 (twenty-three years ago)

Way I see it, if B.B. King is kind enough to set aside 10 minutes to talk to me and a friend of mine on his tour bus (apparently not an uncommon experience even for mere fans like myself), some fop like Anton what's-his-name acting like he does is almost laughable.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Monday, 16 June 2003 04:01 (twenty-three years ago)

i'm a nice guy but my band sucks

― duane (doorag), Monday, 16 June 2003 04:12 (twenty-three years ago)

when it comes to Ryan Adams solo work, tolerance levels are severly tested.

― Chris Radford (Chris Radford), Monday, 16 June 2003 04:38 (twenty-three years ago)

It is nice to be important, but it is important to be nice.
-- Mike Taylor (current31...), June 16th, 2003

Mike, I can now die happy, knowing that someone has quoted Scooter on ILM at last.

― colin s barrow (colin s barrow), Monday, 16 June 2003 04:56 (twenty-three years ago)

of all the 'artists' i've met, 90% have been cool, and i've met everyone from ozzy to cannibal ox to william hooker. generally, if someone is a jerk, it's because they feel they need to be, which is just kinda sad. It's like, if yr so miserable being a fucking rock star and getting your picture taken, there are tin cans to be priced at A&fuckingP asshole

generally, every photographer / journalist is way surprised at how congenial / nice my band is (except dave, who's our quota "be mean to people" guy) so maybe we are an exception to the rule and i've been lucky in all of MY personal interactions with heros. Who knows.

but to answer the question, yes, it really makes no difference.

Anyone remember that episode of Growing Pains where Ben Seaver meets the fictional rock star Jonathan Keith and he's real mean and then Ben goes home and rips the poster down and all? C or D? hahahahahaa

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 16 June 2003 05:25 (twenty-three years ago)

I never particularly cared for Creedence Clearwater Revival, but after watching their behind the music and finding out what a first class dick Fogerty is, I can't stand to hear them at all anymore.

― Dan I. (Dan I.), Monday, 16 June 2003 05:52 (twenty-three years ago)

all my VU/Lou Reed records would be gone if i got rid of music made my pricks ... Lou Reed is, of course, the King of All Assholes.

― Tad (llamasfur), Monday, 16 June 2003 05:57 (twenty-three years ago)

imagine what his crown would look like

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 16 June 2003 05:58 (twenty-three years ago)

my respect for red house painters plummeted a whole lot after kozelek fucked all my friends. I still pick up his releases though, to this day, I can't fathom how such a beautiful voice singing such beautiful sad words comes from such a redneck hick.

― anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Monday, 16 June 2003 06:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Blimey.

― Trayce (trayce), Monday, 16 June 2003 06:37 (twenty-three years ago)

I think I do have a time this occurred to me...there's this DJ in L.A. named Jason Bentley. Very well known for playing coffeehouse dance music, groove music for people who don't like to sweat and think the dance tunes they hear on Mitsubishi ads is edgy. Anyway, I know three different girls (who don't know each other) who each had a slightly sinister/creepy encounter with this fellow. Sometimes he'll pop on the radio here and there and I want to retch...

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Monday, 16 June 2003 06:40 (twenty-three years ago)

i hate jason bently. i still listen to prince all the time. hes the ultimate in assholism.

― chaki (chaki), Monday, 16 June 2003 07:43 (twenty-three years ago)

I wouldn't have much of a record collection left if I followed this philosophy. Or else I'd be stuck listening to nothing but Travis.

I've invariably been disappointed by meeting the people responsible for some of my favourite music. So the best way to avoid the dilemma is not to expose yourself to the risk of disillusionment.

Oh, and don't see the BJM live unless you *want* to go see them for the drama, oh the drama.

― kate (kate), Monday, 16 June 2003 08:34 (twenty-three years ago)

My oh my! I haven't met a musician in a band liked by more than two people who wasn't a dick or dickette.

― such a mess, Monday, 16 June 2003 08:44 (twenty-three years ago)

what about the opposite - meeting a musician you like and they're really lovely - does that enhance your love for them? i will never sell my Spinanes records (i wouldn't anyway, they're rather good) because Rebecca Gates was absolutely lovely when i spoke to her..

― electric sound of jim (electricsound), Monday, 16 June 2003 09:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Yes, except Frank Zappa whose work takes great pains to ensure that you have no chance of forgetting how much of a prick he was.

― ArfArf, Monday, 16 June 2003 12:19 (twenty-three years ago)

I love her music, but even if I didn't, I'd probably hang onto my Edith Frost collections because she was one of the nicest people I've ever met..

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:27 (twenty-three years ago)

After scolding him for a) listening to such a boring band

< cough> Bullshit < /cough>

b) listening to a band with a name that stupid, I wondered if I would lose interest in a band I liked under similar circumstances.

Please, if Brian Jonestown Mascara is not a good name, what is?

Your story isn't anything close to what they got to at times. Sadly now people started going to their shows just to see Anton flip a switch.

None of the people, aside from Lou Reed can touch G!Y!B!E! in group attitude mode.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:35 (twenty-three years ago)

agreed. what ASSHOLES. At least I don't have to worry about "not listening to them anymore," since i'd never be caught dead with one of their records in the first place.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:46 (twenty-three years ago)

I stopped trying to like Erase Eratta after interviewing them.

Also, the Pietasters were a high school favorite of mine, but my girlfriend hooked up with more than one of them before meeting me, which makes it a bit hard to listen to them now. (This doesn't make them assholes, but still.)

― Tom Breihan (Tom Breihan), Monday, 16 June 2003 17:52 (twenty-three years ago)

After scolding him for a) listening to such a boring band

< cough> Bullshit < /cough>

b) listening to a band with a name that stupid, I wondered if I would lose interest in a band I liked under similar circumstances.

Please, if Brian Jonestown Mascara is not a good name, what is?
------------------------------

Now Brian Jonestown MASCARA would have been a little better, but Brian Jonestown Massacre is just a juvenile joke...

For my tastes, BJM is thoroughly dull. Now if I were to go see them and this Anton bloke murdered the entire front row of the audience, that might spice things up a tad.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Monday, 16 June 2003 18:01 (twenty-three years ago)

I though this thread was going to be about Momus.

― Carey (Carey), Monday, 16 June 2003 18:30 (twenty-three years ago)

Forgot to mention, your completely forgiven if you've had to suffer though some of the later stuff only.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 16 June 2003 18:38 (twenty-three years ago)

Ah see there's my conundrum. I've been told that the "Brit flag album" (whatever that is) is good, but I've only heard their more recent work.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:08 (twenty-three years ago)

rock stars are supposed to be a-holes. it's in the manual.
Fame brings out the inner asshole in even the most civilized person.

― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:28 (twenty-three years ago)

"Brit flag album" (whatever that is) is good, but I've only heard their more recent work.

Take it From The Man. I like Ride so I'd push the first album, Methodrone and the wierd trippy second

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Monday, 16 June 2003 19:32 (twenty-three years ago)

the last bjm record is very nice. does that make it important?

― keith (keithmcl), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 00:34 (twenty-three years ago)

I though this thread was going to be about Momus

I am actually the nicest person on ILX. For some reason my dreamy Candide-like opinions turn the competition into truly horrible people who go round shouting 'fuck' and 'cunt' and 'I like Bush!' and 'arghh, my eyes!'

― Momus (Momus), Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:16 (twenty-three years ago)

It's... tough to say. I've never had personal encounters with rock stars in which they've acted like dicks. From rumor and the like, though, the answer would be no. Steve Albini's a dick, but that doesn't mean I like his work any less. On the other hand when I don't like a person's music to begin with, them acting like dicks (Earth Crisis, for example) just makes it easier to laugh at them.

People being NICE makes me more inclined to enjoy their music, though. For example, I can listen to a Rah Brahs album and think it rules because the guys are so nice even though based on the musical elements alone it's not typically my thing. Probably not the best criteria for judgement, though.

― Ian Johnson, Tuesday, 17 June 2003 02:32 (twenty-three years ago)

Steve Albini is one of the nicest, if not the nicest, rock people I've worked with/interacted with. Anyone who says he's a dick has never met him or interacted with him in any significant way.

I don't have a problem with listening to music made by jerks, unless it's music made by people who have been jerks to me, personally. Thus I don't listen to the Magnetic Fields anymore.

― hstencil, Tuesday, 17 June 2003 05:41 (twenty-three years ago)

This question is to me, you know, the ULTIMATE. So important. And it's NOT just a question of narrowing down your range to only the 'nice' people - obviously that would only be .05 percent of the world. The point is, what about the people who aren't penitent in their work? The Marquis de Sade question - and all the postmodern idiots who wear him on their sleeve - to me this is the real question of art. This is the question we should all be thinking about.

― Jody C, Tuesday, 17 June 2003 07:13 (twenty-three years ago)

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