Simple Minds, classic or dud?

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Okay, we had the search and destroy thread and a U2/Simple Minds war but now it's time for a proper C/D setup. This is in no way influenced by the fact that I picked up the reissues of the first six albums over the weekend and that I'm listening to Sons and Fascination/Sister Feelings Call right now and considering how brilliant it is once more.

In my mind, never has a band been so easily divided between use and uselessness:

USE: the debut (hell, even the pre first album stuff, it gave the Cocteau Twins their name after all) through Sparkle in the Rain, slightly flawed as that might have been (it still has "Waterfront" and a great cover of "Street Hassle," that works for me). Reel to Real Cacophony is one of the most bizarre and wonderful sophomore albums ever, like if, I dunno, Radiohead released Amnesiac after Pablo Honey or something, and Empires and Dance through New Gold Dream is as close to a surging imperial procession through a time and sound as anything else, post-punk scaled for arenas that unlike U2 placed the prominence on the music over the voice and the 'message' (no, really -- Jim Kerr so often sounds like he's being carried along by the music or is cutting across it instead of trying to dominate it).

USELESS: they record some other guy's song, score a hit with it, I learn to hate it from the moment I first heard it, and then Once Upon a Time and everything else from there on in, maybe a couple of songs aside, is a grueling extended disaster. I still have a copy of Street Fighting Years around and it's probably one of the most bombastic and utterly ridiculously over the top albums ever. They started out transcending whatever the Dublin foursome could bring to the stadia and by that time were doing even more damaging things than them, frightening. The recent covers album...oh god, don't get me started.

Trying to think of what influence if any they had is interesting. Jess inadvertantly made me thought of this on the Radiohead round table debate thread because I thought that Echo was a poor comparison to Thom and company and I realize that SM might be a better one, a band who has a public profile in the States but might not be seen as at the center of things, despite many obsessed fans...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 June 2003 03:58 (seventeen years ago) link

As our president likes to say, I'd call them a gentleman's C. But then, the only albums I ever had were New Gold Dream (the gold vinyl edition! I don't know what happened to that), Sparkle in the Rain and Once Upon a Time. So I was only a browser. And they seemed browsable.

JesseFox (JesseFox), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:06 (seventeen years ago) link

yup. your right. too comprehenzie first post leaves me with no where to go.

didn't they get sampled by raven maize a few years back. sorry thats all.

gallantseagull, Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Classic for albums two (Real to Real Cacophony) three (Empires and Dance) and three (Sons and Fascination) and a mini-album of sorts (Sister Feelings Call) and I'd start with the last two cuz they are collected on one--very long admittedly--disc. New Gold Dream 81-82-83-84 (wtf was with those numbers btw) still has good moments, but they are beginning to move into the realm of suckiness (some people claim that Sparkle in the Rain is still listenable, but I don't remember liking it much at all). For some reason they have the worst greatest hits collections ever (For example: their 81-92 COLLECTION has nothing before 1983?!?!?). Easily the best fusion of Euro-disco/Kraftwerk and postpunk and an obvious precursor to the sort of dance punk experiments which DFA produces every other month.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Um Sons and Fascination is album number four. D'oh!

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Reel to Real Cacophony is one of the most bizarre and wonderful sophomore albums ever

I can't argue with that...at all.

Paul Cox (paul cox), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Good summary, Ned -- I was just thinking to myself today, if ever there were a band that needed a tightly edited Best Of, it's Simple Minds.

Even in the good old days, though, quality control wasn't really their thing, and I'm tempted to say they were a singles band: "I Travel," "Love Song," "The American" -- those first few where they're flirting with the New Romantic movement are so great, and hold up much better than most of the club-rock of that era. And "Themes From Great Cities" should be recognized as one of the great instrumental rock tracks of the '80s (I actually used it in the early '90s for some public access cable show, and after we screened it ten different people asked me, "What was that amazing music?")

After that... well, I think they were always going to do whatever they had to do to make it big, and if that meant hopping on the Celtic Rock bandwagon along with U2 and Big Country, then so be it. So my expiration date is a little earlier than yours, though again the singles off New Gold Dream and Sparkle in the Rain were pretty fine. I still get that descending keyboard riff from "Up On The Catwalk" stuck in my head at odd times, and "Waterfront" and "Someone Somewhere in Summertime" make artsy pomposity seem so damn soulful.

But after that, toss it all: I saw them on the Once Upon A Time tour in '85 or whenever, and they were pretty bad. Shriekback opened, and wiped the floor with 'em. If they haven't called it a day yet -- and Jim Kerr doesn't seem the type to stop flogging that horse -- I say we punish him with dudness until he relents, or at least commisions a decent Best Of.

Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:43 (seventeen years ago) link

i unreservedly love "don't you (forget about me)." in my mind, at least, it's the perfect example of a mid-eighties pop song. aside from the cultural-archeology aspect, though, it features some of the best aspects of that period -- shimmering production, muted guitar, echo-ey vocals, a nice melody and sing-along chorus. it's also nowhere near as bombastic as SM (or U2) would later get. lyrics are kinda dopey, but who cares about lyrics? :-) i also still have a soft spot for once upon a time -- which pours syrup on the "don't you" production -- and half of the songs ("alive and kicking," "all the things she said," and "ghostdancing") are solid. the rest is tarted-up bombast (esp. stuff like "sanctify yourself"), so i suspect my fondness might be as much mid-eighties nostalgia as anything else. i do agree that everything after that is unlistenable crap, though.

the stuff pre-"don't you" is somewhat hit-or-miss, but mostly pretty solid and just about every record from that time has at least something to recommend it. real to reel cacaphony, empires and dance, and new gold dream had an interesting roxy music-meets-kraftwerk sound to it. and something like "theme for great cities" was the greatest kraftwerk song that ralf und florian never made. things started getting a little bombastic around sparkle in the rain, though it's still quite good (a bit like what echo & the bunnymen would've sounded like if ian mccullough wasn't so whiny).

Tad (llamasfur), Thursday, 5 June 2003 04:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Half very classic, half dud (more dud if they don't pack it in soon).

I just tried to order a couple of the re-issues online and the bastards sent me the old versions, so my reacquisition of their back catalog is on hold until I get that sorted out.

I have Sons and Fascination here on vinyl however, and I love it. It somehow complements American architecture perfectly, it's such a modernist building of an LP. A huge empty sound that fills up all that concrete and nothingness. I'm continuously surprised that freeway interchanges don't sprout from the ground whenever I play "Themes for Great Cities."

Anyway, I like the Breakfast Club theme, but agree it was their downfall. I'd try and make the case for Once Upon a Time though... I don't like the album so much, but I love the double live release that has many songs from it.

Also search "Hunter and the Hunted" from New Gold Dream.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 5 June 2003 06:01 (seventeen years ago) link

I should probably qualify American architecture with "stuff built west of the Mississippi after World War II."

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Thursday, 5 June 2003 06:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Sons & Fascination/Sister Feelings Call has to be their best. Everything pre-that is good, as is New Gold Dream. I love the goofy first album stuff when Charlie played like a post-punk Brian May. Even the bad lyrics are funny : "Is it true you're running round now/Is it true they're calling you the Chelsea Girl?". (Chortle!)

I recently played 'I Travel' for the first time in about 10 yrs and was astonished by how bloody thunderously good it is.

Oh and I really love 'Don't You Forget About Me' - even though Kerr's hooting is pretty silly.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 5 June 2003 06:07 (seventeen years ago) link

Huh? They covered "Street Hassle"? Never knew that, but then I only now post-Don't You... Simple Minds and never felt the urge to seek out older stuff. After reading the thread, I'm thinking maybe I'll pick up something from the library.

willem (willem), Thursday, 5 June 2003 06:25 (seventeen years ago) link

All know my feelings on this: albums 2 through 5 super fucking k-classic.

That is all.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 5 June 2003 10:07 (seventeen years ago) link

The first House of Love album reminds me of New Gold Dream.

Pripton Weird (flowersdie), Thursday, 5 June 2003 10:14 (seventeen years ago) link

Life in a Day is highly underrated. I too love the first half of their career.

Patrick South (Patrick South), Thursday, 5 June 2003 11:21 (seventeen years ago) link

Agree with Alex in SF: 2 thru 4

R2RC would probably still make it as one of my 25 favourite albums - jagged and carnivalesque with that last-gasp-of-the-70's electrourban concrete-subway harshness & alienation scattered through it

E&D has a looming thunderous quality and depth of sound which anticipates the best that 80's production was to offer (eg Fear Of Gods sounds like prototype-Propaganda to me)

S&F/SFC was like listening to big-idea architecture
(+ great as accompaniment to overnight motorway drive - nr-empty urban stretch of M6 level with Manchester/Liverpool at 4am while 'theme for great cities' or 'sound in 70 cities' blasts out = wonderful)

their swelling up into tinselled plum puddings starts on some of NGD
(albeit glorious title track uses those tendencies in a way that works)

the rest should probably have been silence

Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Thursday, 5 June 2003 12:06 (seventeen years ago) link

"Sons & Fascination/Sister Feelings Call has to be their best. Everything pre-that is good, as is New Gold Dream."

Dr. C is OTM as always. I remember the po(m)p and drama of New Gold Dream came as a pleasant surprise at the time but their subsequent descent into U2-style bombast and vacuity was sadly rapid.

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 5 June 2003 12:52 (seventeen years ago) link

I like "Themes" (which I only have on 1980's Maxell 190 Minute tape cassette, or something of that sort). I haven't heard enough of the other stuff, or don't remember it, to say. Obviously, I'm not a big fan of many of the bands asssociated with them and that time, but I would be curious to hear more.

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:03 (seventeen years ago) link

Has any other band risen so high to fall so low?

(I could find an analogy in history yesterday when my friend asked me this question: "Is you going on about early Simple Minds the same as Jode going on about early Whitney Houston?" (!!!) (or should that be (??)).

Cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:03 (seventeen years ago) link

.. uh, the cover of Street Hassle is absolutely horrible. Other than that, I think Sparkle in the Rain is a decent record.

Once Upon a Time - a huge letdown. Joined the ranks of OMD.

dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:10 (seventeen years ago) link

I couldn't find an..."

Cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Has any other band risen so high to fall so low?

No.

Ned has summed it up pretty well. I used to like "Don't you forget about me" when I was a kid, but now it seems silly and I can't help but associate it in my mind with some horrible 80s yuppie aesthetic.

Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:12 (seventeen years ago) link

(Just reminding myself on amazon: maybe not.)

Rockist Scientist, Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:13 (seventeen years ago) link

I've stated my intense love for pre-foghorn SM elsewhere.

Andy K (Andy K), Thursday, 5 June 2003 13:28 (seventeen years ago) link

I still listen to New Gold Dream (yes, gold vinyl edition) every now and then. And yeah, Sparkle in the Rain is total bombast, but I still liked some somgs in it. At the time I was embarassed by Once Upon a Time, and haven't thought of it in over a decade; if it weren't for a few mentions above, I wouldn't have been able to name a single song on it. They really did crap out.

Sean (Sean), Thursday, 5 June 2003 14:00 (seventeen years ago) link

(I think I'll add, given Sons and Fascination another listen this morning, that the contrast between the verse and chorus in "Seeing Out the Angel" is simply breathtaking.)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 5 June 2003 14:28 (seventeen years ago) link

The video for "I Promised You a Miracle" was on VH1 Classic during lunch.... that's a good tune.

Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 5 June 2003 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link

I (like most everyone else) would go along with Ned's summary. I have a soft spot though for Once upon a time, which is really the same album as New Gold Dream but with added Bob Clearmountain drum 'woomph'.

Sparkle in the rain is execrable apart from Waterfront which is one of the records from that period which tried to take on U2's bombast and actually suceeded.

Aren't they back to doing some trancey electro stuff now?

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Thursday, 5 June 2003 20:43 (seventeen years ago) link

Based solely on formerly owning that Glittering Prize best of, DUD DUD DUD DUD DUD DUD. I don't know about this early years hoo-ha, but when these guys turned arena they were pure opening-act-for-U2 all the way (and I got my problems with U2 as is). Hell, CREED's messianic trip has more of an effect on me than Jim Kerr's (I'm shocked Chrissie Hynde let him touch her).

I totally disagree with Ned, "Don't You Forget About Me," while totally cheesy, is the only Simple Minds song I'd care to hear again (ok, MAYBE "Alive And Kicking" if I get to dance around Bono-style to it).

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 6 June 2003 00:16 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know about this early years hoo-ha

See, this is the problem, which you must overcome. ;-)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 June 2003 00:24 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm only gonna find out about the early years when someone hands me a copy and five bucks (or asks please). You're OTM about Kerr being carried by the music. Anytime I'm bitching about Bono, somebody just bring up Jim Kerr so I can put it in perspective. Hell, after Hail To The Thief, you might even bring up Thoooooooom Yooooooorrrrrrrrrrke.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 6 June 2003 00:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Arrangements will be made.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 6 June 2003 00:35 (seventeen years ago) link

I hate "Alive and Kicking" so much. SO much.

Sean (Sean), Friday, 6 June 2003 01:31 (seventeen years ago) link

And yet I recall an atrocity on that same album named "Oh Jungleland," which made "Alive and Kicking" seem like a sweet spring breeze in comparison. (Cue foghorn: "OHHH JUNGUUUUUUUULLAAAAAAAND...")

Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Friday, 6 June 2003 01:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Jim Kerr never danced like Bono! Have none of you seen his kung-fu dancing moves in the video for "Up On The Catwalk?"

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 6 June 2003 01:55 (seventeen years ago) link

I love the everything through Sparkle in the Rain, especially that. Since then, it's been bad. Although there are some really good instrumental b-sides. And they're still exciting live.

ara, Friday, 6 June 2003 02:54 (seventeen years ago) link

The last couple albums (Cry, Our Secrets Are The Same) have actually been better than I expected. And I still love New Gold Dream.

blutroniq (blutroniq), Friday, 6 June 2003 04:32 (seventeen years ago) link

Ned basically summed everything up at the beginning. I like New Gold Dream and Sparkle In The Rain a lot. Really the only thing I'd add is that SM is the poster child for the "if the road to hell is paved with good intentions" phrase.

I'll defend Real Life somewhat - couple of the songs on there are OK and are mostly salvaged by Mel Gaynor's incredible drumming (he's #1 on my unheralded drummer list)

Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Saturday, 7 June 2003 06:05 (seventeen years ago) link

Ned - I got R2R + E&D on vinyl, then S&F/SFC on cassette, back in the days before all this digital tomfoolery -
I've bought the first & last of these on CD within the past couple of years, and am tempted to get E&D too....but are there any extra tracks on these 'reissues' you refer to ?
(cos then i'll look for the latest E&D CD instead of what i see around at present)

Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Thursday, 12 June 2003 12:29 (seventeen years ago) link

No extra tracks on the reissues, for better or worse -- this is why I'm glad I've got those Themes collections that came out back in 1990.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 12 June 2003 13:31 (seventeen years ago) link

the early stuff they did was much better than anything they did past 1982. new gold dream was their so-so album. and the beginning of their pompous arse phase.

frenchbloke, Thursday, 12 June 2003 13:53 (seventeen years ago) link

I love New Gold Dream but I listened to Reel To Real Cacophony again yesterday and was reminded of how much it just blows everything else out of the water. Best post-punk album evah!*

* This may not be true, but I can't prove that it's untrue either.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:22 (seventeen years ago) link

I just want to say "dud" again. I'm worried that next time someone says their name in public I'm just gonna spontaneously yell "DUD!" at them.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Best post-punk album evah!*

Definitely one of the best in my book, though choosing between it and Empires and Dance is nearly impossible.

Andy K (Andy K), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:26 (seventeen years ago) link

So as someone who just bought (and is loving) E&D, how does Reel to Reel differ?

Sean Thomas (sgthomas), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Hm...it's one of those albums that is simultaneously structured and fractured.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:36 (seventeen years ago) link

Empires and Dance (Talking Heads, PiL, Moroder) is more dance-oriented, hypnotic and spare than Reel to Real (Magazine, Devo, Kraftwerk).

Andy K (Andy K), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:40 (seventeen years ago) link

"Hm...it's one of those albums that is simultaneously structured and fractured. "

What in tarnation?

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 13 June 2003 00:42 (seventeen years ago) link

I totally disagree with Ned, "Don't You Forget About Me," while totally cheesy, is the only Simple Minds song I'd care to hear again (ok, MAYBE "Alive And Kicking" if I get to dance around Bono-style to it).

TS: Miccio's Bono-dancing or Paul Stanley's foxy-dancing!

Tad (llamasfur), Friday, 13 June 2003 01:57 (seventeen years ago) link

i wish they'd re-release the themes collections.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Friday, 13 June 2003 02:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Sons and Fascination is probably my favourite, so in my opinion YES THEY DO

Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Monday, 18 June 2012 16:46 (eight years ago) link

One thing I love about those early Simple Minds albums is Derek Forbes' bass playing. Respect to him for jumping ship at the right time, though.

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Monday, 18 June 2012 20:34 (eight years ago) link

blasted I Travel on the way to work this morning

buzza, Monday, 18 June 2012 22:25 (eight years ago) link

to follow up my earlier post : things do indeed get better.
this stuff is absolutely fantastic.
the 1st two albums i need to live with a little longer i think before the penny drops, whereas the rest of this boxset is superb.

mark e, Monday, 18 June 2012 22:31 (eight years ago) link

I think the band themselves were disappointed by the way the first album turned out. Best thing on Real To Real Cacophony is Changeling.

Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Monday, 18 June 2012 22:53 (eight years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbvwKqotIAY

Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Monday, 18 June 2012 22:53 (eight years ago) link

this fear of god : the missing link between shriekback and crackdown era cabaret voltaire.

mark e, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 10:23 (eight years ago) link

good spot!

Zaireeka Badu (NickB), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 10:31 (eight years ago) link

so according to mojo article, derek was never supposed to be bass player, but due to his les paul getting half inched ended up doing the bass lines.

how f*cking lucky is that as i totally agree that his presence in the bands sound is a large factor as to why i have fallen hard for this stuff.

if this is the result then more guitarists need to be a victim of theft, and pick up the bass guitar.

(actually thats not that bad a piece of advise for 2012 .. )

mark e, Tuesday, 19 June 2012 17:31 (eight years ago) link

Empires And Dance = Real To Real Cacophony > Sons And Fascination > Life In A Day > Sister Feelings Call

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Tuesday, 19 June 2012 22:58 (eight years ago) link

Nice to see the early Simple Minds stuff getting its due. There was a while there where I would only listen to Empires and Dance alone because I was tired for having to explain myself.

The recent box set is excellent and it's definitely nice to have those bonus tracks more widely available.

I have a question for those of you who bought the 2003 remastered CDs and the x5 box: how does the remastering differ between the two, if at all?

It's also got me eyeing that copy of Sparkle in the Rain at my local used CD place. It's one that I've never heard, writing it off years ago as something from the "new" (read: more produced) version of the band that I was not interested in.

Austin, Wednesday, 20 June 2012 02:47 (eight years ago) link

three years pass...

EUROPE HAS A LANGUAGE PROBLEM!

Turrican, Friday, 11 December 2015 22:54 (four years ago) link

Currently spinning Empires and Dance after not listening to it for a while, and once more wondering why 'I Travel' wasn't the huge smash hit that it deserved to be.

Turrican, Friday, 11 December 2015 22:55 (four years ago) link

Where I come from I Travel was nauseatingly ubiquitous. It's cool though. Decades have passed.

everything, Friday, 11 December 2015 23:00 (four years ago) link

one month passes...

Holy cow, the X5 box is going for $75 and up. I guess print runs these days are miniscule.

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Sunday, 24 January 2016 02:36 (four years ago) link

And even more on Amazon! Glad I picked it up.

Austin, Sunday, 24 January 2016 02:52 (four years ago) link

one year passes...

Listening to the 5x5 live album. I'm not a big live album guy but this is shockingly fun. Whoever's doing the bass lines is killing it. It's more guitar focused than the studio takes but it all sounds great and the song choices flow really well.

Gerald McBoing-Boing, Sunday, 20 August 2017 19:52 (three years ago) link

the bass player was some guy from danny wilson if you can remember them. can't be easy filling derek forbes shoes though

plp will eat itself (NickB), Sunday, 20 August 2017 21:19 (three years ago) link

It's an enjoyable album if you can overlook the fact that Jim sings songs like Factory and Calling Your Name like they were on Street Fighting Years

PaulTMA, Monday, 21 August 2017 14:36 (three years ago) link

love that bass guitar ZAP sound that occurs at the end of every (other?) measure during "seeing out the angel".. simple but badass..like getting electrocuted but funky

brimstead, Monday, 21 August 2017 23:38 (three years ago) link

simple minds, demigods of bass slappage and poppage

brimstead, Monday, 21 August 2017 23:39 (three years ago) link

two months pass...

So there's a new album, and there's a new promo photo.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPGfT72VQAIzOrV.jpg:large

This has garnered various reactions. A friend made an edit:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPGslppVoAALtpb.jpg:large

Ned Raggett, Monday, 20 November 2017 21:06 (two years ago) link

Oh yeah, this band are still going and didn't break up in 1984 like I often pretend they did.

Gholdfish Killah (Turrican), Monday, 20 November 2017 21:11 (two years ago) link

rotten bastards - surely one of them could have helped jim up off the floor?

damian green is people (NickB), Monday, 20 November 2017 21:12 (two years ago) link

Charlie's not paid enough for that now.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 20 November 2017 21:13 (two years ago) link

after all jim's done for him too

damian green is people (NickB), Monday, 20 November 2017 21:14 (two years ago) link

four months pass...

You don’t seem to say much about the song itself (you know, musically)?

absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Wednesday, 28 March 2018 01:16 (two years ago) link

six months pass...

I saw the Simple Minds a few weeks ago. As alcoholic dementia is setting in I'll say it was a fine show (I have no capacity to evaluate quality of live performance for bands covering their own past glory). Worked well enough but I have been obsessed with Simple Minds videos since that night due to alcoholic dementia.

In particular I have been listening to "All the Things She Said, the first line of which I have been trying to parse and can only arrive at "Don't you look back on a bagel or swirl."

This AM I googled the lyrics and apparently it's "Don't you look back on a big lost world." I think that's fucking total BS. Listen to it clearly, he's saying "bagel."

Get fucked, LyricsDB.com

fields of salmon, Friday, 19 October 2018 00:56 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

From our local paper, seems like a nice guy:

The brother of the lead singer of Simple Minds has been jailed for nine years after a judge deemed he was a danger to the public after stalking two fans.

Paul Kerr, brother of rock star Jim Kerr, accused J0hn Fagan of rape and murder and threatened to sexually assault his wife Julie in what started out as an online spat over the Don’t You (Forget About Me) band’s latest album.

https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/18141149.simple-minds-jim-kerrs-brother-paul-kerr-jailed-nine-years-stalking-fans/

Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 09:53 (eight months ago) link

9 years is a long sentence. I was going to say that prison sentences in Scotland are usually a lot shorter than in England when I realized this trial was in England.

Frozen Mug (Tom D.), Monday, 13 January 2020 10:45 (eight months ago) link

yeah it does sound p severe for an online argument, but his previous offences are a bit of a worry:

“I note that your previous convictions both arose out of seemingly innocuous business disputes, one which resulted in the victim’s home being set alight and the second in you breaking into the victim’s home and assaulting them with a weapon.

“I therefore find that you pose a significant risk to members of the public of serious harm occasioned by you.”

Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 10:51 (eight months ago) link

Are we sure he never played drums for the Housemartins?

Frozen Mug (Tom D.), Monday, 13 January 2020 11:47 (eight months ago) link

haha

Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 12:05 (eight months ago) link

the Don’t You (Forget About Me) band

ouch

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 13 January 2020 15:39 (eight months ago) link

fuck. reading the story the spark of the campaign of abuse was mr fagan replying to a facebook post by paul kerr saying the new simple minds album was "pure shit".

bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:11 (eight months ago) link

it's a wonder any ILXors still have unburnt houses

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:13 (eight months ago) link

we don't live in houses -- unless you mean glass houses

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:14 (eight months ago) link

and all fagan actually wrote was:

"I’ve been a fan for more than 30 years and I think it’s a mistake to get rid of the two former band members."

bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:16 (eight months ago) link

I’ve been a fan for more than 30 years

eh, one of the new fans then, he's got no right to criticize

Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:20 (eight months ago) link

haven't dug into this story myself - did anything actually happen outside of the online threats jim?

Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:23 (eight months ago) link

it was a real campaign of harassment, he had became totally obsessed with them, ended with him saying he was coming to their town with a baseball bat to attack them and then him getting arrested because he had emailed two police forces to the effect that he was going to kill them

bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:27 (eight months ago) link

sweet christ

Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:28 (eight months ago) link

It looks as if Fagan was trolling Paul Kerr pretty hard on Facebook, now that I Google around a bit. Not that it merited being threatened and slandered as a pedophile, but it was hardly innocuous comments about the latest Simple Minds album:

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/10/18/simple-minds-singers-brother-was-also-targeted-on-facebook-jury-told/

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:36 (eight months ago) link

the plot thickens!

bidenfan69420 (jim in vancouver), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:41 (eight months ago) link

facebook is making people crazy, wtf

Death to (NickB), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:43 (eight months ago) link

Hate to think what would have happened had got started on the surfeit of bad acoustic, covers and live albums

PaulTMA, Monday, 13 January 2020 17:51 (eight months ago) link

Live in the City of Light is classic tho

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 13 January 2020 17:53 (eight months ago) link

You can take the boy out of Toryglen...

Frozen Mug (Tom D.), Monday, 13 January 2020 19:39 (eight months ago) link

Judge Stephen Mooney asked: “How many mankinis does a man need?”

groovypanda, Tuesday, 14 January 2020 08:02 (eight months ago) link


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