Mahavishnu Orchestra C/D/S/D

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The Inner Mounting Flame is phenomenal. What else is worth checking out? Other things in a similar vein?

sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 17 May 2003 00:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Some rate Birds of Fire as equal to Inner Mounting Flame, but I don't. It's similar, but the themes aren't as epic, the guitar work not as blazing, the overall record not as rocking.

Sean (Sean), Saturday, 17 May 2003 01:04 (nineteen years ago) link

Inner Mounting Flame really is great. the first track in 3/4 (or 6/8 or something, i'm no theory buff) is amazing. i don't own any other Mahavishnu records. but some stuff that's pretty similar, in a heavy fusion mode are:

there's a great album of John McLaughlin and Carlos Santana called "Love, Devotion, Surrender" in which they do a tribute to John Coltrane. it's super duper beautiful and heavy. they're all wearing white outfits and hanging out with their guru Sri Chinmoy on the cover.
Santana was hanging out with Mrs. Alice Coltrane around this time and put out and album with her called "Illuminations" that's not too shabby.
Matching Mole - Robert Wyatt's band after Soft Machine. even though they're considered prog, this is more jazz influenced. the s/t album is my favorite.
Return to Forever - chick corea's band. very fast & complicated stuff.
Tony Williams' Lifetime - ex-Miles drummer. his mid 70s stuff is da bomb. Allan Holdsworth's guitar puts eddie van halen to shame.
The first couple of Weather Report albums kick serious ass. not as heavy as some of this other stuff, but still great.
Michael Urbaniak - Polish fusion with violin as the lead instrument. his wife, Urszula Dudziak sings some wacky shit on a bunch of his albums.
and lastly a modern album - Raoul Björkenheim's "Scorch Trio" with Ingebrigt Haker Flaten and Paal Nilssen-Love on Rune Grammofon. one of my favorite albums of last year. guitar, bass & drums. super heavy modal fusion

JasonD (JasonD), Saturday, 17 May 2003 01:17 (nineteen years ago) link

RUINS do a mahavishnu medley on their last record. they are the best prog after mahavishnu (when mahavishnu are on , like inner mounting flame) but more magma at 78rpm kind athing. one of tatsuya yoshida (ruins' drummer) 's other bands KOREKYOJIN gets quite mahavishnu at times but also slightly surf rock / meters / beefheart too. i like the cheesy mahavishnu w/ orchestra album whatever that one's called.

bob snoom, Saturday, 17 May 2003 07:39 (nineteen years ago) link

I absolutely love those first two Mahavishnu Orchestra albums, and the "lost" third album that finally got released a few years ago is quite good too.
You might want to check out the live album from that period as well.

Later stuff is a different affair, I've only heard "Apocalypse" which has an orchestra and everything... Didn't hit the spot at all for me.

Incidentally I'm listening to Shakti's self titled live album right now, which I think might be even better; pure acoustic madness.

Øystein Holm-Olsen (Øystein H-O), Saturday, 17 May 2003 07:43 (nineteen years ago) link

"extrapolation". less ecstatic. more bluesy. john surman.

gaz (gaz), Saturday, 17 May 2003 08:26 (nineteen years ago) link

I actually like the Lost Trident Sessions album that came out a couple of years ago quite a bit. It's definitely an end-of-the-band type album where nobody wanted to collaborate on songwriting and so the themes aren't generally as memorable as the earlier albums, but they take all these riffs and motifs that they had left over and just burn through the whole album. Also, there is a tune near the end of the album where Billy Cobham is seriously laying down some dn'b in the mid-70s, I kid you not.

Jordan (Jordan), Saturday, 17 May 2003 18:45 (nineteen years ago) link

MAHAVISHNU ORCHESTA
Inner Mounting Flame- Classic, of course, though a bit jammy for me.

Birds of Fire- I think it's their best, Jan Hammer expands with Moog (okay, maybe a tad cheesy, but I love it anyway)...Generally better music, IMO.

Between Nothingness and Eternity- Hmmm...maybe this is their best one, actually. The live one. Sound is not great, but if I could've attended one concert, it probably would have been this one, from the sound of it. All the songs on Lost Trident Sessions are bested by the versions here. Ending of "Sister Andrea", with Hammer's spiraling Moog and McLaughlin burning that final note is fantastic. "Dream", however, once it gets going, is absolutely fucking insane.

Apocalypse- The beginning of the ensemble version, recorded with an orchestra. Probably their overall least album, despite the talent involved.

Visions of the Emerald Beyond- Excellent; my favorite after Birds of Fire. Very eclectic. "Eternity's Breath 1" is a stunning opening, "Lila's Dance" is also beautiful. The closer, "On the Way Home to Earth"...whoa.

Inner Worlds- A contract fulfiller, too much encroaching Narada Michael Walden (great drummer, but...). However, "All in the Family" and the funky Miles one ("Miles Out"?) are killer.

Lost Trident Sessions- Again, bested by Between Nothingness (except in sound quality), but fans will want to own it anyway.

SHAKTI
Shakti - Live album, hair-raising, ridiculously fast climax at the end of "Joy".

A Handful of Beauty- Nice, but still probably their least.

Natural Elements- I think this was their best, more diverse in sound (non-Indian percussion, etc.), excellent scalloped guitar from McLaughlin. Check out the amazing "The Eagle and the Daffodil" and also "Get Down and Sruti" w/ superb Kanokol (sp?) scatting at the end.

Joe (Joe), Saturday, 17 May 2003 20:32 (nineteen years ago) link

i second the shakti love

there was a recording of mcclaughlin stuff pre-mahavishnu/pre-sri chinmoy, when he was still part of the hangdog brit blues boom, which i was always faintly intrigued by

but i never heard it

mark s (mark s), Sunday, 18 May 2003 10:31 (nineteen years ago) link

I guess I prob. prefer McLaughlin's early solo albs 'Extrapolation' and (esp.) 'Devotion' to any of the Mahavishnu discs. I have a bit of a prob. w/ electric violin as an instrument/sound - and avoid ANYTHING w/ Jean-Luc Ponty (or Carlos Santana, come to that) as a point of principle - tho' I do still love 'Inner Mounting Flame' and 'Birds of Fire'.

Yeah the first two Shakti albs are super-killer - Speed-Bhangra! Sadly, the recentish reunion discs are not specifically too gd.

Andrew L (Andrew L), Sunday, 18 May 2003 17:28 (nineteen years ago) link

one year passes...
Inner mounting Flame is incredible. That 1st track really is awesome.
Is the live album Between Nothingness & Beauty worth getting or should i get some bootlegs off slsk of them?

Andy Jay, Saturday, 5 February 2005 08:05 (seventeen years ago) link

wots that track sapphire bullets of pure love or sommat? that was the headfuck track when i was a kid. i love the mclaughlin/clapton parable on koon=michaelangelo now.

bulbs (bulbs), Saturday, 5 February 2005 08:09 (seventeen years ago) link

I just got an incredible-sounding bootleg of a 1973 concert McLaughlin and Santana did together. The band was McLaughlin, Santana, Larry Young on organ, Doug Rauch on bass, Billy Cobham on drums and Armando Peraza on percussion. There are several existing bootlegs of this show - the guys I got mine from took all of 'em and combined the best parts to create a really, really clean-sounding double disc that contains the entire 2 1/2-hour show. Amazing stuff - seven tracks, all but one running between 15 and 30 minutes.

pdf (Phil Freeman), Saturday, 5 February 2005 16:06 (seventeen years ago) link

What's funny is I've come around to thinking that everything McLaughlin did was great except for Mahavishnu Orchestra. Devotion roolz.

sundar subramanian (sundar), Saturday, 5 February 2005 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link

everything McLaughlin did was great except for Mahavishnu Orchestra

Sundar, you're insane!! ;)

Joe (Joe), Saturday, 5 February 2005 21:45 (seventeen years ago) link

caught some footage of them last night (thought this wz the reason for thread revival) - one thing I wanted to ask is: what's the point of the two neck I saw mclaughin with? is it just that it looks gd? (also the first time I caught D***k B**l** footage and it was hilarity; no mention of the name, just a bit of free improv to show how jazz had left its audience towards the mid-to-late 70s).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 5 February 2005 23:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I like the acoustic album he did about the time of Mahavishnu Orchestra and Shakti as well. It's called "My Goals Beyond" and has a gorgeous version of "Goodbye Porkpie Hat" as well as a bunch of other niftestuf.

Austin (Austin), Sunday, 6 February 2005 00:09 (seventeen years ago) link

If you like "Extrapolation", be sure to check out Miroslav Vitous' "Infinite Search" as it is of a similar vein and features McLaughlin as a sideman. The rest of the band isn't too shabby, as it is Herbie Hancock, Joe Henderson and Jack DeJohnette. This one was originally put out in 73.

Another notible McLaughlin appearance is on Larry Coryell's "Spaces". The band also includes Billy Cobham and Chick Corea. There is some furious playing on this one. This album also has a couple of acoustic duets that kind of foreshadow the stuff McLaughlin did with Paco DeLucia and Al DiMeola later on. This one came out originally in 74.

Earl Nash (earlnash), Sunday, 6 February 2005 02:00 (seventeen years ago) link

six months pass...
After having the main hook from track 1 of IMF pop into my head inexplicably, I've started listening to it again. I can't deny there's some truly great, blistering stuff there, lines coming together and blazing apart. Parts of it can still be a little difficult, e.g. all that arpeggio twiddling in track 3.

Sundar (sundar), Monday, 22 August 2005 16:14 (sixteen years ago) link

You're talking about "Noonward Race", one of the giddiest thrill-rides in recorded history. I just love hearing McLaughlin play those flurries of 16th notes at the end of his solo, only to fuck up and leap headlong back into the song proper before he can do any more damage. That whole track (whole album) owes way more to rock than jazz. (And so what?)

Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 22 August 2005 17:13 (sixteen years ago) link

McLaughlin's tone on those first two albums is quite a heavy lead tone, especially for the time. Jazz needs some more guitarists that are gainiacs.

earlnash, Monday, 22 August 2005 17:16 (sixteen years ago) link

Ack, Jan Hammer actually is the same guy who did the Miami Vice theme, isn't he?

Sundar (sundar), Monday, 22 August 2005 18:46 (sixteen years ago) link

Yep! I'd prefer to remember him as the keyboard player from 'Stratus', though:

http://www.lp-cd.de/2/B8334_01.jpg

Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 22 August 2005 18:49 (sixteen years ago) link

ten months pass...
IMF is so fucking good!

Abbadavid Berman (Hurting), Thursday, 22 June 2006 03:53 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...

mclaughlin seems really fucking high in this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J88Ep3_vKIk

god, they were really pretty sick and weird and ahead of their time, weren't they?

Jordan, Thursday, 24 January 2008 02:39 (fourteen years ago) link

So fucking awesome, holy shit they were good.

Bill Magill, Thursday, 24 January 2008 15:05 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah, when they were good, they were as good as any prog band going (tho my jazz loving dad hates them for that reason). however, when they weren't good = also the reason I don't listen to that much fusion.

Dominique, Thursday, 24 January 2008 16:36 (fourteen years ago) link

true

Jordan, Thursday, 24 January 2008 16:39 (fourteen years ago) link

one year passes...

MILES BEYOND

cool app (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 27 March 2009 00:08 (thirteen years ago) link

I don't think you will ever see a group quite like this one come together again, I was amazed by some really low quality video (though the sound was OK) live clip of Mahavishnu on You Tube a couple of days back. Billy Cobham is a freak of a drummer in a band of freaky good players.

earlnash, Saturday, 28 March 2009 03:54 (thirteen years ago) link

two years pass...

man Visions of the Emerald Beyond is so fucking sweet

You're talking about "Noonward Race", one of the giddiest thrill-rides in recorded history. I just love hearing McLaughlin play those flurries of 16th notes at the end of his solo, only to fuck up and leap headlong back into the song proper before he can do any more damage. That whole track (whole album) owes way more to rock than jazz. (And so what?)
― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, August 22, 2005 1:13 PM (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

This is a brilliant description of this song. The end of McLaughlin's solo he just abrubtly changes gears into the main riff is one of my favorite musical moments. It sounds like he was greasing his strings beforehand with WD-40.

Great great band.

Bill Magill, Friday, 15 July 2011 17:37 (ten years ago) link

anybody heard any of Billy Cobham's solo stuff? his drumming on Birds of Fire is fucking insane.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HNHy2x3a8fo/SdvXe-rkvyI/AAAAAAAAACQ/xuNuW4CrpOM/s320/billy.jpg
this one's pretty ok, tho it's not really mahavishnu-ish, as the title implies.

tylerw, Friday, 15 July 2011 18:42 (ten years ago) link

"spectrum" is immortal. haven't heard much besides that, and the stuff i have heard is forgettable. get "spectrum"!

hardcore oatmeal (Jordan), Friday, 15 July 2011 18:52 (ten years ago) link

yea spectrum

puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Friday, 15 July 2011 18:56 (ten years ago) link

i found this one on the street. i need to relisten to it, but i remember digging it. the title track is a really long, freaky, avant krauty, synth weirdo track.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41NZES9E3VL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

and you should know this one if you listened to mid 90s hip hop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3E9vx5vVck

jaxon, Friday, 15 July 2011 18:57 (ten years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg86di2p34c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cda693NGOc

^flying lotus is repping this vibe hard these days

hardcore oatmeal (Jordan), Friday, 15 July 2011 19:00 (ten years ago) link

anybody heard any of Billy Cobham's solo stuff? his drumming on Birds of Fire is fucking insane.

― pathos of the unwarranted encore (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, July 15, 2011 2:39 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Only Spectrum, Tommy Bolin's finest moment (which is saying a lot). The guy is fucking amazing on that record.

Bill Magill, Friday, 15 July 2011 19:28 (ten years ago) link

thanks guys grabbing spectrum! that track "heather" that jaxon posted is gorgeous too though so mellow & dialed-back

Wow, George Duke rocking the Minimoog and ARP Odyssey both - I thought those fusion guys generally had loyalty to one or the other

Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Friday, 15 July 2011 22:41 (ten years ago) link

Apparently McLaughlin and Santana reunited at this year's Montreux Jazz Festival. It probably sucked, but I'm gonna see if any bootlegs are floating around.

that's not funny. (unperson), Saturday, 16 July 2011 00:37 (ten years ago) link

Whaddya know, here's some footage of them doing "The Creator Has A Master Plan"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=230YzDsAUMs

that's not funny. (unperson), Saturday, 16 July 2011 00:40 (ten years ago) link

four years pass...

I just got an incredible-sounding bootleg of a 1973 concert McLaughlin and Santana did together. The band was McLaughlin, Santana, Larry Young on organ, Doug Rauch on bass, Billy Cobham on drums and Armando Peraza on percussion. There are several existing bootlegs of this show - the guys I got mine from took all of 'em and combined the best parts to create a really, really clean-sounding double disc that contains the entire 2 1/2-hour show. Amazing stuff - seven tracks, all but one running between 15 and 30 minutes.

Would love to hear this. There's a great concert on YouTube of the Santa Monica show I believe.

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 5 September 2015 04:14 (six years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgz4ESqjj98

cock chirea, Saturday, 5 September 2015 04:37 (six years ago) link

Awesome – thanks, cock. Phil, if you can hear me, I'd love to get my hands on those files if possible.

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 7 September 2015 20:03 (six years ago) link

The band was McLaughlin, Santana, Larry Young on organ, Doug Rauch on bass, Billy Cobham on drums and Armando Peraza on percussion.
The same band as on "Love Devotion Surrender" of course.

Noel Emits, Monday, 7 September 2015 20:48 (six years ago) link

I'm sure it's easily locatable online. The CD-R version I have was given the title With Loving Devotion to John Coltrane by the assembler.

the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Monday, 7 September 2015 20:59 (six years ago) link

I will hunt this down!

Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 8 September 2015 01:11 (six years ago) link

two years pass...

Getting into The Lost Trident sessions this morning, which is one I have not heard much. "Sister Andrea" is a really, really good track. The section on that tune when they break it down low you really hear McLaughlin channeling his inner-Miles Davis ala Sketches of Spain. It certainly sounded like a nod to me.

earlnash, Sunday, 4 February 2018 17:06 (four years ago) link

Who was in his band when you saw him?

I don't remember all their names, but I wrote about the show for Stereogum in November.

grawlix (unperson), Sunday, 4 February 2018 22:34 (four years ago) link

I like the last track on inner worlds a lot

sleepingbag, Sunday, 4 February 2018 22:39 (four years ago) link

Cobham is insane. I read a story once that when Cobham was a kid, he and his friends would have competitions to see who could keep a quarter pressed against the wall the longest with a roll.

Agree that he holds that group together, but Narada Michael Walden was a solid replacement. So crazy that he became this slick hitmaker. I saw Aretha Franklin this summer, and Walden was playing drums with her, and I kept thinking, huh, the same dude who did "Freeway of Love" and Whitney's "How Will I Know" was in Mahavishnu Orchestra. Anyway, he was a joy to watch, having so much fun. Here's a bit of him backing her at the show I saw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzPHaRowxu0

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 4 February 2018 22:52 (four years ago) link

So cool to find this, this is a set I saw McLaughlin do in Spain in 1993, with Dennis Chambers and Joey DeFrancesco!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po_toT6n9aE

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 4 February 2018 22:55 (four years ago) link

Who was in his band when you saw him?

4th dimension: ranjit barot, gary husband, etienne mbappé

mbappé was so sick. not only was he an insane bass player but he wore god damned gloves

scoff walker (diamonddave85), Sunday, 4 February 2018 23:02 (four years ago) link

JUst checking out Where fortune Smiles which is McLaughlin either just before he started mahavishnu or a little after. Alongside John Surman, Dave Holland, Karl Berger nad Stu martin.
JUst seen that Esoteric reissued it recently. Sounds interesting so far.

Stevolende, Sunday, 4 February 2018 23:22 (four years ago) link

This is p much the sickest thing ever imo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10a45mgMGcY

Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive), Monday, 5 February 2018 05:32 (four years ago) link

What can you say? Wow! I wish more 1970's drummers kept their solos that short n sweet. And of course his technique is absolutely phenomenal. Nice clip.

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Monday, 5 February 2018 06:55 (four years ago) link

"Sunflower" by Milt Jackson, w/Ron Carter, Herbie Hancock, Freddie Hubbard, Jay Berliner and Billy Cobham: a fantastic record.

mahb, Monday, 5 February 2018 10:10 (four years ago) link

He's pretty good in the core unit band on the CTI Allstars first live lp. Tracks like Red Clay on that are really great.

Stevolende, Monday, 5 February 2018 15:21 (four years ago) link

Agree that he holds that group together, but Narada Michael Walden was a solid replacement. So crazy that he became this slick hitmaker. I saw Aretha Franklin this summer, and Walden was playing drums with her, and I kept thinking, huh, the same dude who did "Freeway of Love" and Whitney's "How Will I Know" was in Mahavishnu Orchestra.

He’s also the dude who did this:
https://youtu.be/Rz1GVwLwH2M

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 8 February 2018 05:33 (four years ago) link

"Agree that he holds that group together, but Narada Michael Walden was a solid replacement. So crazy that he became this slick hitmaker."

i'm still a little flabbergasted whenever i realize that michael tilson thomas was the guy who did the orchestral stuff on "apocalypse" (and it wasn't very good...)

ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Thursday, 8 February 2018 14:21 (four years ago) link

three months pass...

Didn't expect to get into Between Nothingness & Eternity at all but I enjoyed more of it than I thought I would. Cant be bothered with getting into the rest of it right now, so I'm shelving it for now. Didn't think this was so highly thought of.

I thought one of the riffs sounded a hell of a lot like Deep Purple's "Smoke On The Water" but I guess people who know better would have made a deal of that if it really did have much resemblance.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 12 May 2018 12:33 (four years ago) link

four months pass...

I liked Apocalypse. Not the whole way through but the highlights are great. Last track has a kind of "You And I" feeling and the soloing at the big climax is fantastic.

But "Smile Of The Beyond" is just gorgeous. Check out this live version with a far more energetic middle portion and added drum solo with good drumming faces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjM-UQ0zVUU

Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, 15 September 2018 11:41 (three years ago) link

That was worth waking up to.

The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r), Saturday, 15 September 2018 13:13 (three years ago) link

dude can shred

hats for sporting the spiritual SG double neck look

niels, Monday, 17 September 2018 08:49 (three years ago) link

That right there is a spiritual custom Ibanez.

Three Word Username, Monday, 17 September 2018 09:23 (three years ago) link

aah, I see!

niels, Monday, 17 September 2018 09:27 (three years ago) link

two months pass...

Visions of the Emerald Beyond is really nice

Robert Adam Gilmour, Friday, 14 December 2018 20:43 (three years ago) link

Narada Michael Walden has had a pretty interesting career starting with Mahavishnu with Aretha (Who's Zoomin Who) and Whitney Houston and many others. From the Ashram to Malibu I would suppose.

earlnash, Friday, 14 December 2018 22:52 (three years ago) link

his drumming on a few songs on Fripp's "Exposure" is ferocious. NYC and Breathless are the two best songs on the album

akm, Saturday, 15 December 2018 02:20 (three years ago) link

You follow Billy Cobham, you better be able to deliver it. Those guys are/were so good, they are like superheroes.

earlnash, Saturday, 15 December 2018 03:06 (three years ago) link

two years pass...

Birds of Fire- I think it's their best, Jan Hammer expands with Moog (okay, maybe a tad cheesy, but I love it anyway)...Generally better music, IMO.

Need to poll Birds against all the other titular objects Of Fire at some point (Chariots of Fire, Wheels of Fire etc) to determine which one is the most awesome.

The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse), Friday, 3 September 2021 17:32 (nine months ago) link

It could be called 'POLL of Fire'

The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse), Friday, 3 September 2021 17:39 (nine months ago) link

Rhapsody of Fire
In the Line of Fire

john landis as man being smashed into window (uncredited) (Matt #2), Friday, 3 September 2021 17:48 (nine months ago) link

Yeah, there's lots. I just worry that some ppl will miss the point and vote for the music they prefer.

The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse), Friday, 3 September 2021 17:53 (nine months ago) link

Was McLaughlin the first real shredder?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 3 September 2021 19:12 (nine months ago) link

He was probably the most technically accomplished and polished player in rock up to that time.

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 3 September 2021 19:20 (nine months ago) link

GW In your opinion, who was the first shredder?

SATRIANI That’s a good one. When you say “shredder,” I would say it’s probably a guy who’s not a great writer but yet can play really well. So that first wave of rock guitarists—people like Hendrix and Page and Beck and Clapton—they weren’t shredders. The fusion guys—Al Di Meola and John McLaughlin and Allan Holdsworth—were doing their own trip; they were fusion guys. So you can put them in another bag. I see shred as a metal thing—someone who listens to Di Meola, who loves the freak-out of Hendrix and the I’ll-do-whatever-I-want nature of Page, and who innocently brought it into a new era. I’m hard pressed to name that person who just played something so simple but really overdid it. [pauses] It might be Alvin Lee from Ten Years After.

Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r), Friday, 3 September 2021 19:25 (nine months ago) link

nine months pass...

That super trill that McLaughlin plays going into some of those speedy runs sends signals up my spine. It's got an effect like sometimes when they play a filtertwist on a really distorted TB-303 in acid music.

The Artist formerly known as Earlnash, Monday, 20 June 2022 01:50 (one week ago) link

What's an example you have in mind?

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Tuesday, 21 June 2022 16:59 (one week ago) link

Oh the big one that has always raised neck hairs was that first run after the riff on "Meeting of the Spirits". His picking is just so super speedy and clean. It's like Dick Dale on steroids. There are plenty of that double picking on the live record, especially on "Dreams". JM does some crazy picking matching the high speed tabla runs on acoustic with Shakti.

As my garage band mind understands, some of this is McLaughlin doing his take on 'sheets of sound' by Coltrane using altered pentatonics. The one I came across was using the minor pentatonic raising the 5th up to the 6th

The Artist formerly known as Earlnash, Tuesday, 21 June 2022 21:50 (one week ago) link

Ah yeah, those are magnificent.

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 02:35 (one week ago) link

Sounds like that’s a mode of mixolydian pentatonic, If you start from the 4th. Like the unison lines on Eternity’s Breath.

29 facepalms, Wednesday, 22 June 2022 14:49 (one week ago) link

Did McLaughlin invent shredding?

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 22 June 2022 14:54 (one week ago) link

The one I came across was using the minor pentatonic raising the 5th up to the 6th

I'm trying to parse this: so a minor pentatonic would be A - C - D - E - G, raising the 5th would make the E an F, so you'd just be using a different pentatonic scale (F - G - A - C - D, but favouring the A as a tonic)?

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 22 June 2022 15:02 (one week ago) link

I think it was proven on another thread that Alvin Lee invented shredding, but McLaughlin sure did it faster and more accurately.

roadie wanders onstage, roadie wanders offstage (Matt #2), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 15:22 (one week ago) link

I always get Alvin Lee, Albert Lee, Albert King, and Albert Collins confused.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 22 June 2022 15:26 (one week ago) link

Of course. Surely that has come up before on some other threads

Ride into the Sunship (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 15:30 (one week ago) link

I saw one of them on The Everly Brothers tribute this weekend. Can’t be 100% sure, think it was Albert.

Ride into the Sunship (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 15:31 (one week ago) link

Albert Lee, that is.

Ride into the Sunship (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 15:31 (one week ago) link

Dick Dale invented shredding.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 15:38 (one week ago) link

GW In your opinion, who was the first shredder?

SATRIANI That’s a good one. When you say “shredder,” I would say it’s probably a guy who’s not a great writer but yet can play really well. So that first wave of rock guitarists—people like Hendrix and Page and Beck and Clapton—they weren’t shredders. The fusion guys—Al Di Meola and John McLaughlin and Allan Holdsworth—were doing their own trip; they were fusion guys. So you can put them in another bag. I see shred as a metal thing—someone who listens to Di Meola, who loves the freak-out of Hendrix and the I’ll-do-whatever-I-want nature of Page, and who innocently brought it into a new era. I’m hard pressed to name that person who just played something so simple but really overdid it. [ pauses ] It might be Alvin Lee from Ten Years After.

GW I was just about to name him!

SATRIANI Yeah. And it’s totally innocent, that moment from Woodstock that everybody refers to [Ten Years After’s performance of “I’m Going Home”], because Alvin Lee is a great blues guitar player. But as a shred moment…it could be that. He might have invented the genre right there.

https://www.guitarworld.com/features/joe-satriani-shred-ache

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 15:40 (one week ago) link

Iirc, Satriani was a lot more positive/defensive of shred in 93 and defined it more as someone who plays what they believe in regardless of the trends or the industry (?)

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 15:56 (one week ago) link

someone who plays what they believe in regardless of the trends or the industry

Shredding as masturbation — you're doing it for your own pleasure, and if you care at all what other people think, you're taking the wrong approach. Of course, this also means you shouldn't do it in front of other people without asking first.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 16:52 (one week ago) link

The shredding at the end of "Hymn To Him" is just incredible. There has never been a film epic enough to justify using that music for the ending.

Robert Adam Gilmour, Wednesday, 22 June 2022 20:44 (one week ago) link

Whoever paid the $3.75 admission sure got their money's worth

The 25 Best Songs Ever Ranked In Order (Deflatormouse), Wednesday, 22 June 2022 22:20 (one week ago) link


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