what is post-rock - seriously?

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I'm totally familiar with the term; but I've been reading all through the post-rock/death of indie thread, and I now doubt my own conception. For instance, Stereolab (who seem very much a retro act to me) are named throughout; also named are Fugazi, Oneida, and others who I just think of as rock. Tortoise I know we can agree on...

Seriously, though, can someone offer a useful definition as a corollary to the thread currently humming, or just link me to one that's useful?

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:30 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

math-rock with vibraphones

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

oh, and no vocals

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

it's like a kind of find yourself thing, part of the musical journey

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:34 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

lose yourself in the moment

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:34 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

... just a rock band who's vocalist got stuck in traffic on the way to the recording studio.

Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:35 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

lose yourself in the 65 minutes

Ronan (Ronan), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:35 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

With the exception of the first answer (heh, like I said, we can agree on Tortoise), I'm don't get what makes these qualities "post-rock" -- losing oneself in the moment is pretty ecstatic, right? This stuff seems equally applicable to jazz and dance music.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

"non-traditional rock music made with traditional rock instruments"
usually instrumental

robin (robin), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Take a search for Simon Reynolds article about post rock, that is where I first came across the term.

earlnash, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Maybe it would help to get more specific. Is there a post-rock canon? What are the 5 or 10 essential post-rock releases, if there are that many?

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:40 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

go to: AMG
http://www.allmusic.com
type post rock into search box and select styles

DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

post-rock cannon:

Led Zeppelin, I - IV, Houses of the Holy, Physical Grafitti, Presence, The Song Remains the Same, In Through the Out Door, Coda.

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Well, if we're onto AMG and Simon Reynolds, I'm not so interested anymore.

Here's some wonderful AMG genre-wisdom, all actual entries I just looked at on their "style" tab:

Liars = United States of America [??!?]
Oneida = Stoner Metal
Ex Models = Alternative Pop/Rock
YYYs = Garage Rock Revival

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:46 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

10 essential post-rock releases:

1. disco inferno - the five eps
2. disco inferno - di go pop
3. disco inferno - technicolor
4. seefeel - quique
5. seefeel - polyfusia
6. bark psychosis - hex
7. bark psychosis - scum
8. main - hydra-calm
9. main - above axis
10. techno animal - re-entry

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:47 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

as i linked to on other thread:

Scaruffi - Post-Rock 90s
http://www.scaruffi.com/history/cpt521.html

DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:49 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

So post-rock is: jam bands with friends at indie labels and Magnet magazine?

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:50 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

no Wire magazine and the defunkt Options mag in the 90s.

DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:53 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

and lizard magazine, the finest brit music mag of the 90s.

DJ Martian (djmartian), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:53 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The Scaruffi thing confuses me again. I am obviously hopeless, feel free to give up on me. Soul Coughing, Six Finger Satellite, and Trail of Dead are post- rock?

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:55 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

There used to be a website that had a hand-drawn "Squirrel Bait Family Tree"! I can't find it anymore...

But this overview of post-rock ain't too bad:

http://altmusic.about.com/library/weekly/aa021301.htm

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:55 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Post-rock? Post-good.

Brandon Gentry (Brandon Gentry), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 15:59 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Actually, that About.com thing makes a way better case than the other ones. I get it -- although I disagree with the value judgments placed on the bands, that's my own issue. It seems like the history proposed in that piece is hardly a shared vision, though, given the disparaties in what folks are saying here.

Post-good I agree with. Ho ho.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I think Mouse on Mars are pretty post-rock. Ditto the Sea and Cake. And most of the Thrilljockey catalogue. Anything in which Bundy K. Brown plays a part.

Brandon Gentry (Brandon Gentry), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:05 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Post rock is for people who seriously think "Future Days" is the best Can album. Prog rockers in other words (ducks for cover)

Dadaismus, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:09 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Damn, I thought I could go happily on my way, hating on post-rock...but I love Future Days! Seems less prog than Tago Mago, the one every seems so excited about. You know, the one where side 3 is like an overamplified yawn, or something?

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:12 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I think mentions of Fugazi on the other thread were purely comparative, no?

The agreed-upon center of post-rock seems to = the Chicago bands: Tortoise, Gastr del Sol, Sea and Cake as pop-post-rock adjunct. BUT the stuff Jess mentions is the stuff Reynolds originally applied the term to, if I remember correctly: this sort of post-shoegaze dubby/ambient British "Lost Generation," Bark Psychosis and Seefeel and the last Slowdive record -- trace back to Talk Talk and Durutti Column, even.

Stereolab wind up getting included partly because they kept working with the Chicago axis and because their late-period records started to sound like that stuff -- but mainly because early use of the term "post-rock" was also maybe meant to encompass the stuff on Too Pure in the early/mid 90s. Seefeel were on it; Laika and Pram were on it. Mouse on Mars were on it, and they sit the margins of the post-rock umbrella, coming from a different genre but obviously working with and around the edges of post-rock proper. (Post-shoegazers like Th' Faith Healers and Long Fin Killie were also on there, and probably initially thought of as a new direction, but they seem to have been retrospectively and probably accurately cut out as just late-period shoegazing with some early post-rock impulses.)

I think the focus on the Chicago guys is sometimes counterproductive, cause you get these "post-rock is just jam bands for grad students" barbs that don't take into account the other/initial conception of what post-rock encompassed. For a completely different idea of what "post-rock" is, was, or could have been all about, there's stuff like the Slow Death in the Metronome Factory and Pop: Do We Not Like That? comps: Pram, Colin Newman, Scenic, UI, Sugarplant, Moonshake, Seefeel, Laika, Mouse on Mars, still early and more entrenched in just "rock" than the late-90s stuff, but definitely a slightly different direction to the whole post-rock "project" than things wound up taking by the end of the decade.

nabisco (nabisco), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:13 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Actually, I'm not sure I agree on Mouse on Mars being post-rock, even though they did title that one album Rost Pocks. I feel like they, and other similar German acts (like To Rococo Rot), might occasionally use guitars and live instrumentation, but approach things fundamentally from an ambient electronic background. Whereas the idea behind the Chicago axis is to use conventional rock instrumentation (plus a vibraphone or three) to create a decidedly unrock sound. That's Robin's definition upthread, and it's probably the best single-sentence summary, in my mind.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:13 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The B*ndy thing is interesting because he kind of rejected the whole thing by going and making what is really just a sort of plain old rock album with the Directions thing, though it maintained the lack of vocals. He claimed (disingenuously?) he just wanted to make something that sounded like the Allman Brothers. It actually sort of sounded maybe like an old Toiling Midgets record (Toiling Midgets first post-rock band?)

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:14 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

not a canon, but a list of stuff I own that could be considered in the post-rock Chicago axis (with a few exceptions):

brise-glace, When in Vanitas… (Skin Graft, GR17) LP
Disco Inferno, D.I. Go Pop (Rough Trade, R3071) LP
The For Carnation, Fight Songs (Matador, ole 131-2) CD
The For Carnation, Marshmallows (Matador, OLE 172-1) EP
The For Carnation, s/t (Touch & Go, tg214cd) CD
Gastr del Sol, The Serpentine Similar (Teen Beat, teenbeat 95) CD
Gastr del Sol, Crookt, Crackt, or Fly (Drag City, DC-43) LP
Gastr del Sol, Mirror Repair (Drag City, DC54CD) CD
Gastr del Sol, Upgrade & Afterlife (Drag City, DC90) 2LP
Gastr del Sol, Camofleur (Drag City, DC133) LP
Isotope 217, The Unstable Molecule (Thrill Jockey/New Beyond, Thrill 049) LP
Isotope 217, Utonian_Automatic (Thrill Jockey, Thrill 063) LP
Isotope 217, Who Stole the I Walkman? (Thrill Jockey) LP
Labradford, Prazision LP (Kranky, KRANK 001) CD
Labradford, A Stable Reference (Kranky, KRANK 006) LP
Labradford, s/t (Kranky, KRANK 013) LP
Labradford, Mi Media Naranja (Kranky, KRANK 023) LP
Labradford, E Luxo So (Kranky, KRANK 037) LP
Labradford, Fixed::Context (Kranky, krank 047) CD
Matmos, The West (Deluxe/Vague Terrain, DLX 212) EP
Mouse on Mars, Cache Coeur Naif (Thrill Jockey, thrill043) EP
Mouse on Mars, Audioditacker (Thrill Jockey, thrill045) 2LP
Mouse on Mars, Instrumentals (Sonig, sonig 01) LP
Mouse on Mars, Glam (Sonig/Thrill Jockey, thrill058) LP
Mouse on Mars, Niun Niggung (Rough Trade/Our Choice/Sonig, RTD 195.3611.1) LP
Mouse on Mars, Idiology (Thrill Jockey, thrill098) LP
Jim O'Rourke, Bad Timing (Drag City, dc 120) LP
Jim O'Rourke, Eureka (Drag City, dc 162) LP
Pan-American, s/t (Kranky, krank-025) LP
Parlour, Octopus Off-Broadway (Terminal Sketchpad, no number) CD-R
Sam Prekop, s/t (Thrill Jockey, thrill061) LP
Pullman, Turnstyles & Junkpiles (Thrill Jockey, thrill 055) CD
Pullman, Viewfinder (Thrill Jockey, Thrill 090) CD
Radian, TG11 (Mego/Rhiz, MEGORHIZ001) CD
The Sea and Cake, s/t (Thrill Jockey, thrill016) CD
The Sea and Cake, Nassau (Thrill Jockey, Thrill 021) 2LP
The Sea and Cake, The Biz (Thrill Jockey, Thrill 026) LP
The Sea and Cake, The Fawn (Thrill Jockey, Thrill 039) LP
Seefeel, Quique (Astralwerks/Too Pure, asw 6123-2) CD
Stereolab, Peng! (Too Pure, Pure LP 11) LP
Stereolab, Transient Random-Noise Bursts with Announcements (Duophonic, D-UHF-D02) 2LP
Stereolab, The Groop Played “Space Age Batchelor Pad Music” (Too Pure, PURE CD 19) CD
Stereolab, Mars Audiac Quintet (Elektra, 61669-2) CD
Stereolab, Emperor Tomato Ketchup (Elektra, 61840-2) CD
Stereolab, Refried Ectoplasm [Switched On Volume 2] (Duophonic/Drag City, DC82) 2LP
Stereolab, Fluorescences (Duophonic, DUHF-D14) EP
Stereolab, Dots and Loops (Duophonic, D-UHF-D17) 2LP
Stereolab, Cobra and Phases Group Play Voltage in the Milky Night (Duophonic) 2LP
Tortoise, s/t (Thrill Jockey, Thrill 013) CD
Tortoise, Gamera (Duophonic, DS33-09) 12"
Tortoise, Rhythms, Resolutions & Clusters (Thrill Jockey, thrill019) LP
Tortoise, Millions Now Living Will Never Die (Thrill Jockey, thrill025) LP
Tortoise, TNT (Thrill Jockey, thrill050) 2LP
Tortoise, Standards (Thrill Jockey, THRILL 089) LP
Turn On, s/t (Drag City, DC131) LP
Windsor for the Derby, Calm Hades Float (Trance Syndicate, TR-46) LP
Windsor for the Derby, Minnie Greutzfeldt (Trance Syndicate, tr 63) LP

there's so many connections in those releases between other types of music, other musicians, other labels, etc.

Also, a question: were the post-punk Rough Trade-era bands looked on with as much scorn/derision as the post-rockers are now? 'Cause I can see a lot of the same arguments being levelled against them, 'xcept of course the hindsight consensus is that they're all classic now....

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:16 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Ack I used up my quota of the word "thing" for the week.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:19 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Agree w/jaymc re:Mouse on Mars. They released 5 albums before putting out anything that could even be considered as 'post-rock, ie 'Niun Niggung'. (not coincidentally the album that made me stop listening to them)

buttch (Oops), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I think the focus on the Chicago guys is sometimes counterproductive, cause you get these "post-rock is just jam bands for grad students" barbs that don't take into account the other/initial conception of what post-rock encompassed.

Well yeah, esp. when you consider that the only member of Tortoise that went to college (I think) is McEntire, and he took forever to graduate!

You'd think with the number of undergrads and grads who post here, the anti-higher education slant of a lot of these posts would be challenged a little. I mean, shit, in America lots of non-rich, non-middle-class kids go to college. Ever hear of scholarships? Grants? Loans? The GI freakin' Bill? ROTC?

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:20 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

B*ndy went to the U of C.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:21 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

hstencil, I'm thinking the Rough Trade bands (and the like) were far more into a sort of energy, aggression, or immediacy than most of what's being proffered here. All this Chicago stuff seems tied together by the *mellow* aesthetic, where This Heat and Swell Maps et. al. were far more aesthetically confrontational.

I don't think my mom would bat an eye if I put on a Tortoise or For Carnation or Stereolab record while we were fixing Christmas dinner and drinking in the kitchen, but A Trip to Marineville would be something else altogether.

Hurlothrumbo (hurlothrumbo), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:23 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

You all forget the Louisville sound again. :-(

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I'm not talking about the sound per se, hurlo (if I may call you that), but the product or perhaps the design. Were the Rough Trade bands not looking for a musical vocabulary beyond that of mere three-chord punk? And can that be characterized by being motivated by not wanting to be associated with said punk? And isn't that characterization just as lame as what's been posited about post-rock?

I keep forgetting about BundyKen, since he quit Tortoise. Great fucking guy, great musician. If his music's bloodless, his shirt isn't: he's a paramedic.

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:29 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

what about slint? i thought they officially started this whole thing???

Jay K (Jay K), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:29 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

you and Sterl are confusing post-hardcore for post-rock!

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

i think it's pretty clear that the two aesthetic forebears of the "two sides" of post-rock are 4AD and slint, tho

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:35 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

and Live Evil.

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Is anyone familiar with the Chicago band Volta Do Mar? (I know 'em mostly because a friend of mine went to high school with them.) I feel like to some extent they bridge a gap between the harder-edged math-rock stuff and jazzier post-rock (two basses; a marimba on one song). Still frenetic as shit, though. They've been described as "King Crimson meets Tortoise," and get a lot of flak for their "chops." (i.e., "Yeah, we get it. You took twelve years of guitar lessons.") But very good.

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:38 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

h-hardcore wasn't rock?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:40 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

well it's not called post-punk-rock, is it?

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

What Jess said on the original hawd-koah definitions, pretty much. I'd throw Main in there but I would and always do.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

and king crimson

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

post-hardcore = post-post-punk?

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:42 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Polvo's "Rock Post Rock" sounds like Led Zeppelin.

hstencil, Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I fear the convoluted genre names of the year 2150.

buttch (Oops), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

post toasties

jess (dubplatestyle), Wednesday, 23 April 2003 16:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

re. Nate: "I think you're right about this turning out to be as hard to pin down as "post-modernism"... Both terms are defined in terms of what they are NOT. But lots of things are NOT modernism, just as lots of things are NOT rock. Therefore, before too long you find the term can be applied to just about anything."

well the comparison to post-modernism is completely valid, but I don't think that makes it useless. AT best, you could say that post-rock is a way to define a method or a mindframe rather than an actual recognizable signature sound. Maybe in that case the term cannot qualify as a "genre" but I'm happy with that.
As with post-modernism, some guys reached the conclusion that there was really nowhere/nothing to look ahead and therefore started to look sideways (or in many cases looking behind). In other words, as with most other art forms, a general consensus emerged at some point in the 90s around the idea that linear musical "progress" was futile and that, to grow, rock had to incorporate approaches from other genres (and here i'm not talking about merely borrowing sounds or production tricks from other styles of popular western music, ie. "adding a dance element to your music")
I guess the idea is not that new and that's why some of the post-rock stuff doesn't sound all that fresh (hello Can, jazz-rock, ...) but, hey, I still see a point in having a term for it.
oder?

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Thursday, 24 April 2003 09:09 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The difference between post-punk and post-rock is that, in general, post-punk bands weren't listening to shit like King Crimson or the Mahavishnu Orchestra or Weather Report or prog or jazz rock...

Dadaismus, Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:12 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Dadaismus, yeah right they weren't listening to prog or jazz rock, even though Robert Wyatt was on Rough Trade?

hstencil, Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:17 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Robert Wyatt is a tricky case, is he really prog rock? You would have to define Prog Rock - my definition is simple, Prog Rock = Shit.

Dadaismus, Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:24 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

... the obvious answer is that the boring bits on Soft Machine and Matching Mole are the prog rock bits, on which Wyatt was merely drumming.

Dzdaismus, Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:30 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

see no prog, hear no prog, speak no prog.

hstencil, Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:30 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

H - prog rock is a dirty word to anyone old enough to remember it. Funny but I was talking to a guy I know at the weekend who's been working on a history of Prog Rock for a while. He said: of course I cover the big three in detail then move on to the other bands. The Big Three being: Yes, Genesis and ELP. Which says it all, I think.

Dadaismus, Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:36 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I remember reading somewhere that the guy from TV Personalities (too lazy to look up name) was shunned for appearing in a photo with his fave records, which included Zappa. Not quite Mahavishnu, but still not what some expected/approved of at the time.

arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I guess the idea is not that new and that's why some of the post-rock stuff doesn't sound all that fresh (hello Can, jazz-rock, ...) but, hey, I still see a point in having a term for it.

If "post-rock" exists at all, it exists as a common tendency that is visible in a number of otherwise dissimilar bands of the mid to late 90s: the tendency to downplay certain traditional elements of the rock sound (loud guitars, riffs, blues influence, short songs, emotionally direct lyrics) and to deliberately adopt elements of other genres (tropicalia, jazz, classical, exotica). The bands that went the furthest in this direction are the ones to whom the term applies best (e.g., Tortoise), but for most bands that get tarred with the "post-rock" brush, these tendencies were only one part of a sound that still remained solidly within the confines of a recognizably "rock" style.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Part of the joke of the term "post-rock" is that it sounds like countless other terms that have been applied to different sub-genres of rock (e.g., krautrock, lite-rock, indie rock, etc.) while at the same time it's literal meaning suggests that it is somehow a different animal.

o. nate (onate), Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

TV Personalities (too lazy to look up name) was shunned for appearing in a photo with his fave records, which included Zappa

You're thinking of Mark Perry on ALternative TV's first album. He has a lot of albums spread out on the floor and they're all fucking great, I think he has Beefheart, van Dyke Parks, Gil Scott Heron, lots of stuff.

Dadaismus, Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Yep, there you go. post-rock before his time!!!!!

arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:47 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

... so post-rock is just being in possession of an eclectic record collection? Hmmmmmmmmmm, could be. He has the "Notorious Byrd Brothers" on there too - of course mean that doesn't mean that his band are any good or not.

Dadaismus, Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:49 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

whoops, the sarcasm must not have come through. Add several more exclamation points to the end of my last post. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

arch Ibog (arch Ibog), Thursday, 24 April 2003 14:51 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

my favourite album in that mark perry photo is "blues for allah"

duane, Thursday, 24 April 2003 15:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

post-rock is (for the most part) taking prog, tropicalia, jazz and making a big mess of it.

There is no substance to this label (but then again that applies to a lot of labels).

There isn't much substance to the music either.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 24 April 2003 15:59 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Best definition I've heard: Post-rock is prog without capes

original bgm, Thursday, 24 April 2003 16:22 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

It would be good if people could get the definition of prog rock right - almost no "progressive" music that was any good in the 1970s was actually prog rock: I'm thinking of Beefheart, Eno, John Cale, Can (most good Krautrock in fact), Miles Dsvis et al.

Dadaismus, Friday, 25 April 2003 11:18 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

not even some shades of it on 'Paris 1919'?

Fabrice (Fabfunk), Friday, 25 April 2003 11:31 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

"Paris 1919"? Not even remotely prog.

Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 25 April 2003 11:34 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Best definition I've heard: Post-rock is prog without capes.

I can't stand these historically revisionist inaccuracies! We ALL had capes, but they were strictly for religious ceremonies.

Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Friday, 25 April 2003 11:42 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

there's plenty of great progressive rock from the 70's, at least i think so.

what about henry cow? area? 'lark's tongues in aspic'?

j fail (cenotaph), Friday, 25 April 2003 15:59 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I can't believe Genesis were mentioned but Geir hasn't even posted yet

M Matos (M Matos), Saturday, 26 April 2003 05:33 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

You know, I saw Sea and Cake live the other week, and thought, "Hmm... pretty cool jazz rock with a guy on a labtop..."

I go on the internet a few days later, and apparantly they have SURPASSED rock. Wow.

David Allen, Saturday, 26 April 2003 05:41 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Post-Rock = "Oh shit, what now?" except they answered it too quick.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Saturday, 26 April 2003 05:46 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Sterling best answer yet.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Saturday, 26 April 2003 05:49 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
four years pass...

I wouldn't apply it to that album, which I've enjoyed a lot, but it's certainly easy enough to make a tongue-in-cheek post-rock bingo checklist and see it all played out to cringeworthy effect in any number of sub-par uninspiring instrumental bands.

krakow, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 11:51 (seven years ago) Permalink

I would say that statement is pretty true, you do need to attain a certain level of proficiency at your instrument, however once you have, there are a whole mess of songwriting & structural issues that you can completely ignore if you wish.

Play a lot of really vague, noodling open string interweaving guitar with practically no harmonic movement, add occasional noisy guitar effects and some laptop glitch/circuit bent toys for a bit of that modern flavour. If the drummers girlfriend plays violin or cello even better.

Thinking about it Drone music is maybe more applicable to that statement, trouble is both genres are easy and enjoyable to play, hence the surfeit of draggy-arsed post-rock and drone.

MaresNest, Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:21 (seven years ago) Permalink

seven years pass...

fearless
THE MAKING OF POST-ROCK
JEANETTE LEECH

The definitive guide to some of the most groundbreaking music of recent decades, from Talk Talk to Slint to Godspeed You Black Emperor.
Cover designed by Graham Sutton of Bark Psychosis.

Published June 6th 2017

‘The best thing about the so-called post-rock thing was it had this brief moment where the concept of it was to make music that came from the indie scene but had no limitations.’ KIERAN HEBDEN, FRIDGE/FOUR TET

‘There was no earthly reason, no logical reason, no pragmatic reason, to function the way that most bands functioned.’ EFRIM MENUCK, GODSPEED YOU! BLACK EMPEROR

‘The main reason we were coming together to try these songs was as an alternative flavour to being in a rock band. Not to replace that experience, but in addition to it.’ RACHEL GRIMES, RACHEL’S

‘We were young and naïve.’ STUART BRAITHWAITE, MOGWAI

‘When you don’t know anything, you’re much more fearless about it.’ GRAHAM SUTTON, BARK PSYCHOSIS

In 1994, the music critic Simon Reynolds coined a new term: post-rock. It was an attempt to give a narrative to music that used the tools of rock but did something utterly different with it, broadening its scope by fusing elements of punk, dub, electronic music, minimalism, and more into something wholly new.

Post-rock is an anti-genre, impossible to fence in. Elevating texture over riff and ambiance over traditional rock hierarchies, its exponents used ideas of space and deconstruction to create music of enormous power. From Slint to Talk Talk, Bark Psychosis to Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Tortoise to Fridge, Mogwai to Sigur Rós, the pioneers of post-rock are unified by an open-minded ambition that has proven hugely influential on everything from mainstream rock records to Hollywood soundtracks and beyond.

Drawing on dozens of new interviews and packed full of stories never before told, fearless explores how the strands of post-rock entwined, frayed, and created one of the most diverse bodies of music ever to huddle under one name.

Published June 6th 2017 • 392pp paperback, with dozens of rare images

Jeanette Leech is a writer, researcher, DJ, and music historian who contributes regularly to magazines including fRoots and Shindig!. She also writes extensively in the health and social care fields. Her first book about music, Seasons They Change, a history of acid folk, was widely praised as ‘an engaging celebration of music from the fringes.’ She lives in Canterbury, England.

heaven parker (anagram), Wednesday, 5 April 2017 13:11 (four months ago) Permalink

I'll definitely pick that one up. Curious where she ends, on what subset of bands.

On Some Faraday Beach (Le Bateau Ivre), Wednesday, 5 April 2017 13:15 (four months ago) Permalink

seasons they change is dope

reggie (qualmsley), Wednesday, 5 April 2017 14:33 (four months ago) Permalink

four months pass...

And here's an excerpt from the book. Great read

http://thequietus.com/articles/22977-post-rock-fearless-tortoise-bastro-gastr-del-sol-book-review

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 8 August 2017 17:41 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Funny how TNT was perceived - also by McEntire - as a 'difficult' album to get into. It had an immediate 'swing' to it, sounding way more organic than anything they ever did.

The excerpt certainly selling the book, can't wait to read it.

Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, 8 August 2017 18:46 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Which is crazy considering they recorded it one part at a time (was reminded of this in McEntire's Trap Set interview recently).

change display name (Jordan), Tuesday, 8 August 2017 18:53 (two weeks ago) Permalink

By the artists quoted/cited in that books' promo blurb above and this thread generally, "post-rock" houses some of the few "rock" acts from the 90s I still really like (Tortoise, Stereolab, Rachel's, Talk Talk, Slint, that Louisville/Chicago spectrum generally) and the stuff I still viscerally feel annoyed at ever having to hear back then (Mogwai, Godspeed You Black Emperor, Sigur Ros).

I wonder if the divide is between people who listened broadly to music, and then made music informed by eclectic tastes; vs. those who thought they were "post" everything without ever listening to almost anything, such that they just made boring epic rehashes of Universe Zero and Crispy Ambulance and Savage Republic kind of stuff and thought they'd reinvented rock music because they didn't have a singer?

Soundslike, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 02:42 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Is Storm Static Sleep by Jack Schuter any good? Anybody read it?

Stevolende, Wednesday, 9 August 2017 12:33 (two weeks ago) Permalink

McEntire is such a douche and Doug is so cool

Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 9 August 2017 13:53 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Reading Fearless now, unexpected appearance of The Police in the first chapter

Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Friday, 11 August 2017 02:19 (one week ago) Permalink

Funny how TNT was perceived - also by McEntire - as a 'difficult' album to get into. It had an immediate 'swing' to it, sounding way more organic than anything they ever did.

The excerpt certainly selling the book, can't wait to read it.

― Le Bateau Ivre, Tuesday, August 8, 2017 1:46 PM (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That is weird. I remember friends trying to sell me on Tortoise and I just didn't really *get it* until TNT. Then I went back and listened to the first two records and they made sense to me.

the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Sunday, 13 August 2017 02:47 (one week ago) Permalink

Very much enjoying this, am gathering vast playlist of stuff to listen to as I go

Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Sunday, 13 August 2017 09:59 (one week ago) Permalink

q: what do you call a group of post-rock lawyers?

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 13 August 2017 13:40 (one week ago) Permalink

a: the torteoisie

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 13 August 2017 13:40 (one week ago) Permalink

i'm here all week, folks

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 13 August 2017 13:40 (one week ago) Permalink

In the words of James Murphy I was there, so curious what I might get out of a book like this. At the time, I just thought a lot of the groups were kind of proggy and really into Morricone, which was fine with me. I really wished Tortoise, full of jazzbos with good chops, improvised more. But Gastr, I thought what they were up to was totally different. Same, obviously, with bands like Sea and Cake. It's kind of like the CBGB scene, when every band was branded Punk but no two bands sounded remotely similar.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 13 August 2017 13:54 (one week ago) Permalink

That Jack Schuter book Storm Static Sleep is an earlier book on the history of post-rock that I've had turn up on Amazon recommend searches several times.
I think it's been out for a few years so I thought at least somebody on a post-rock thread might have come across it.
I don't think there are an abundance of books on the subject.
So has anybody here actually read it?

Stevolende, Sunday, 13 August 2017 14:06 (one week ago) Permalink

Yes, I read it and I wasn't terribly keen, it felt a little slight although that could just be the spread of bands he chose to write about.

MaresNest, Sunday, 13 August 2017 14:19 (one week ago) Permalink

I read it but can't remember anything about it. On that basis I'd hazard a guess it's not essential.

Thomas Gabriel Fischer does not endorse (aldo), Monday, 14 August 2017 11:26 (one week ago) Permalink

I can't see Savage Republic mentioned in the Fearless index. I thought they were an influence mentioned by several of the bands crucial to post-rock.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 22 August 2017 23:56 (two days ago) Permalink


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