TS: Sleater Kinney's "Call the Doctor" vs Sleater Kinney's "Dig Me Out"

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So?

(Note: This thread can happily devolve into a Sleater-Kinney Classic or Dud/Search and Destroy donnybrook, if thats what you prefer...)
Subthread: Bratmobile vs Le Tigre vs Bikini Kill....catFITE!

Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 12:06 (sixteen years ago) link

oh call the doctor. its more raw. "taste test" and "good things" kick the ass of anything on DMO

di smith (lucylurex), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 12:29 (sixteen years ago) link

Bratmobile kill all

schnellschnell, Wednesday, 16 April 2003 12:30 (sixteen years ago) link

Dig Me Out. Janet Weiss is a HUGE difference-maker. Call the Doctor might have their greatest moment ("Good THings"/"I Wanna Be Your Joey Ramone" back-to-back), but Dig Me Out holds up way better

Chris Herrington, Wednesday, 16 April 2003 12:45 (sixteen years ago) link

I've got both of these. Listened to Call the Doctor loads but bought DMO in a big spree and haven't even heard it yet.

I'd take their first album over CTD any day though.
I've just made a mix CD for a friend with Turbonegro's 'I Got Erection' followed by SKs' 'A Real Man'.

mei (mei), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 12:49 (sixteen years ago) link

As a total album (not just scattered songs), I'd say DMO is the winner. CTD is definitely more feral and I prefer it over DMO, but I do think the latter is a more admirable musical accomplishment. Goddamn, I love that band.

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 13:55 (sixteen years ago) link

i have listened to DMO constantly since getting it however many years ago. CTD is definately more fierce, but only ever listen to a few songs. And agree, Janet Weiss makes all the difference

rkl (rkl), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 14:17 (sixteen years ago) link

but laura mcfarlane is a fucking incredible drummer as well. granted janet works slightly better with how they've turned out. I love both albums.

simon 803 (simon 803), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 14:32 (sixteen years ago) link

Call the Doctor has the underrated Laura MacFarlane, whom I think is one of *the* most expressive drummers there is. Janet, while great in her own right, is also more of a "rock" drummer. I don't know; while I like pretty much every S-K CD I've heard, their early stuff is really special to me.

mike a (mike a), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 14:34 (sixteen years ago) link

Maybe this TS should be expanded to Sleater-Kinney v. ninetynine.

mike a (mike a), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 14:37 (sixteen years ago) link

Dig wins for me--my favorite of theirs up till One Beat, which I like better than any of the others (take this one offline, Jeanne!)

M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 15:52 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm pretty much with Jeanne on this. CTD is far more vicious, the iconography and lyrical intent just rip everything later to shreds. But Corin didn't really get her voice under control fully until All Hands (even tho it's otherwise weak mainly, I think) and Dig Me Out was when they really began to flesh out the songs. But all that stuff is also what stripped away the free-associative smack-smack-smack of trax like "Little Mouth".

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 17:51 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm with Matos on this, though The Hot Rock was my fave until One Beat

Chris Barrus (Chris Barrus), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 19:26 (sixteen years ago) link

Side 2 is more consistent on Dig Me Out, though both are great.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 21:51 (sixteen years ago) link

Maybe this TS should be expanded to Sleater-Kinney v. ninetynine

Ninetynine's latest stuff is really nothing like S-K anymore. Especially the tracks written/sung by Cameron their drummer. Bizarre stuff.

electric sound of jim (electricsound), Wednesday, 16 April 2003 22:45 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm not going to say CtD is a better album, because when I try to think about what that means these days my head explodes. Also, I listen more to DMO, which is revealing. But, to rip off Xgau/Marcus (as always), I find hearing them discover their voices/power on CtD to be more exciting/affecting than getting the vicarious thrill of their full exploitation on DMO.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 17 April 2003 02:31 (sixteen years ago) link

Seen 'em three times, have the CDs, still stumped. I'm going to make it a point this year to figure out why I'm just not a huge fan. I really love "Anonymous," though, and since JW annoys me, I vote CTD.

Pete Scholtes, Thursday, 17 April 2003 03:40 (sixteen years ago) link

I recommend reading, if you have not, Greil's "Sleater Kinney Give Punk a Voice". It used to be on Addicted to Noise, but no longer, and I can't find a copy anywhere on the web.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 17 April 2003 03:51 (sixteen years ago) link

I've only heard All Hands On the Bad One. What are these like, in comparison?

sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 17 April 2003 04:12 (sixteen years ago) link

more riot.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 17 April 2003 04:13 (sixteen years ago) link

All Hands is a lot more pop, and more polished. It was my favorite for a long time but I've gotten a bit bored with it. Lately I've been thinking that The Hot Rock is very underrated: the tunes are subtler biut they stay with you longer.

I'll still stick with my old opinion: I think every Sleater-Kinney album since DMO is stronger than the last, tho I love them all.

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 17 April 2003 05:36 (sixteen years ago) link

Justyn: Strange, Hot Rock is the highest rated on ILM.

Leee (Leee), Thursday, 17 April 2003 07:44 (sixteen years ago) link

Matos, Matos, Matos. It's not that I don't like One Beat -- I DO. It was my #4 Pazz and Jop pick. It's just that as a *whole* album, a continuous listen, I find holes. (ABSOLUTELY NO LESBIAN JOKES, MATOS.) I find myself skipping certain tracks. That didn't happen with The Bad One, CTD, or DMO. The Hot Rock and One Beat had some of SK's most amazing *songs* ("Oh!"; "One Beat" knocks the wind out of me whenever I hear it, same goes for "Don't Talk Like" and "The End of You" -- hell, I even adore "Get Up"). But I don't like the entire albums. Still, SK *says* more than any other band out there, and for that, they've got me.

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Thursday, 17 April 2003 19:44 (sixteen years ago) link

Everyone adores Get Up. Even if they say they don't, they secretly do.

jm (jtm), Thursday, 17 April 2003 20:08 (sixteen years ago) link

Get Up is the best song on the album! what's this "even" nonsense?

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Thursday, 17 April 2003 23:39 (sixteen years ago) link

New poster--huge S-K--

I love all their LPs, but 'Call The Doctor' still reigns supreme. No, it doesn't have Janet or steller production, but it's like some kind of mid-90s post-Riot Grrl 'Zen Arcade'-in-miniature and the emotion and emerging songcraft (not that I'm dissing the S/T, mind you) beats the shit out of most other records that decade...

(Note: Jimmy is everwhere, isn't he?)

John 2, Friday, 18 April 2003 01:53 (sixteen years ago) link

That's because I never post more than one line. It makes it easier to spread one's self. As it were...

jm (jtm), Friday, 18 April 2003 03:23 (sixteen years ago) link

This also makes me disposable. Which is very in the spirit of ILX.

jm (jtm), Friday, 18 April 2003 03:28 (sixteen years ago) link

I gotta go with DMO primarily b/c I think it shows them shedding the DIY riot grrl feel and becoming true rock goddesses. (and janet does wonders)

That Girl (thatgirl), Friday, 18 April 2003 03:50 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah is loving "get up" really something people are ashamed of? theres only one sleater-kinney song i don't like, and thats "sympathy". it really makes me cringe. hey TS: heavens to betsy or excuse 17?

di smith (lucylurex), Friday, 18 April 2003 07:20 (sixteen years ago) link

b-b-b-but Jeanne you always make the lesbian jokes before I can! (speaking of which, hung out w/a bunch of them tonight in Seattle after the FAP, and they were nice but too in-jokey, as drunk people who've known each other a long time tend to be. the FAP was way fun, incidentally)

M Matos (M Matos), Friday, 18 April 2003 08:07 (sixteen years ago) link

The acronyms on ILXOR are *killing* me. What's FAP? I don't appreciate "in-joke" humor and odds are I'd have no clue what those lesbians were talking about either, Matos.
P.S. I have no idea why I said "I *even* like 'Get Up.' " Please disregard the "even." I can't be perfect all the time, damnit.

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 18 April 2003 13:36 (sixteen years ago) link

Fap = "Fancy a Pint" = ILX regional meetup.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Friday, 18 April 2003 13:40 (sixteen years ago) link

Don't worry, Jeanne. You'll be at one soon enough.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 18 April 2003 14:28 (sixteen years ago) link

I would have never have figured FAP out. I'm usually good at acronyms, too. Thanks for the enlightenment.

Jeanne Fury (Jeanne Fury), Friday, 18 April 2003 14:41 (sixteen years ago) link

Ah, I just meant you are all over the 'net, on all sorts of S-K (or just music) related sites...

John 2, Friday, 18 April 2003 19:04 (sixteen years ago) link

Jeanne, my birthday party doubled as a FAP, so you have been to one before.

M Matos (M Matos), Saturday, 19 April 2003 00:59 (sixteen years ago) link

one month passes...
Hey Di, EXCUSE 17! As far as the thread I GUESS CTD cos its good bits are better, but side two is pretty patchy and DMO is kinda better overall but sadly features emo anthems "Buy Her Candy" and "Jenny". Everyone should diss the s/t, though yelling for "A Real Man" live was fucking funny. To us. We were drunk. On their beers, actually.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Monday, 19 May 2003 12:49 (sixteen years ago) link

I've always found Call The Doctor, Dig Me Out and The wildly underrated Hot Rock make a hell of a trilogy, no one part less crucial than any other. Call the Doctor feels like the first fully functional post-rio grrrl album anyone made, Dig Me Out refines the aesthetic into a spotless collection, and the Hot Rock experiments with skills and sounds they've already mastered. I adore all three like children: for completely different reasons, all equally.

Joe Gross, Monday, 19 May 2003 12:58 (sixteen years ago) link

four months pass...
hahaha assdrew i am still annoyed they didn't play Fuckin A.

i listen to dig me out a lot more at the moment cos its the only sleater-kinney album that i haven't lsitened to way too much. but i still say call the doctor is better. another clincher - laura's haunting backing vocals on songs like taste test.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Saturday, 20 September 2003 23:03 (sixteen years ago) link

Was anyone else mystified when Greil "Sleater-Kinney's publicist" Marcus dissed One Beat? What was he listening too?

I LUV them all, but would currently rank them like this:

1. One Beat
2. Dig Me Out
3/4. Call the Doctor/The Hot Rock (tie)
5. All Hands on the Bad One
6. Sleater-Kinney

chris herrington (chris herrington), Saturday, 20 September 2003 23:25 (sixteen years ago) link

I wasn't wrong on this thread, but my preferences have changed - One Beat is my clear fave now, Dig Me Out second.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 21 September 2003 00:20 (sixteen years ago) link

christ, greil marcus really can't win, can he? if he praises sleater-kinney, it's "oh write about someone else for once you old perv!" and if he criticizes them it's "whatta jerk, how dare he say that?"

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Sunday, 21 September 2003 05:48 (sixteen years ago) link

1 - One Beat
2 - Call The Doctor
3 - Dig Me Out
4 - All Hands on the Bad One
5- The Hot Rock
6 - Sleater-Kinney

(but they're all pretty great).

I was severely disappointed in One Beat when it came out, I played it a bit this spring, but I found it in a misplaced binder this week, and there are just no bad songs on it.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 21 September 2003 06:39 (sixteen years ago) link

I think Dig Me Out has more striking songs on it - that stand out and make you go "wow," - but as an entire album from start to finish, Call the Doctor still seems to harbor the power of an avalanche clobbering you continuously, since I don't think there are any sub-par or flow-destroying songs on it, which imo is just not true for DMO. Yes CtD lacks "fun songs" and may seen unbalanced (compared to latter day SK), but it has this uninterrupted intensity that really does it for me, a visceral force that flows really well, and I don't really care who's drumming. It still seems like their most coherent, powerful musical/political statement from start to finish and the sequencing also really works for whatever reason; it seems timeless.
That's my opinion; my own ranking is something like this at the moment even though this list is meaningless since the positions are kinda interchangeable - I like all four a lot, really:
1) Call the Doctor
2) All Hands (really underrated - textured songs like "Pompeii" were really nice)
3) One Beat
4) Dig Me Out

7) Hot Rock...(not that I dislike it, just didn't effect me as the others and I hardly ever isten to it, but should probably reinvestigate - I really liked the first half, but then it lost me, if I remember right)

Vic (Vic), Sunday, 21 September 2003 07:01 (sixteen years ago) link

hey vic, ctd has "wanna be your joey ramone", its fun!

But Corin didn't really get her voice under control fully until All Hands

personally i wish corin had NEVER had singing lessons, she used to sound much more expressive.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Sunday, 21 September 2003 07:17 (sixteen years ago) link

I dunno, I think she's incredible on "Sympathy" and "Far Away," from One Beat.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 21 September 2003 07:21 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah di, but joey ramone still seems to have the same "mood" as the other songs for me, like it doesn't sound out of place at all, you know? like a dark little fun song they put in there that still has a point; it doesn;t break the flow of the record. actually all of their albums sound pretty coherent (well the last two a lot of contrasts, I guess), but say, "little babies" still is very different mood-wise from "jenny" - at least to me. ok i'm babbling, i'll stop. if there are any two songs on call the doctor that i skip when i play it, it's the title track and joey ramone actually - the ones that everyone else really likes!

Vic (Vic), Sunday, 21 September 2003 07:29 (sixteen years ago) link

I just find the Marcus thing inexplicable. I don't understand how he could be so head-over-heels for them and then when One Beat comes out -- which I think is their best but which is almost certainly in the same ballpark as their best -- he acts like its a grand disappointment. If he'd written the same stuff about All Hands on the Band One, I wouldn't have been perplexed.

Inspired to listen to the first one again for the first time in a few years -- maybe I should bump it up over All Hands on the list above.

chris herrington (chris herrington), Sunday, 21 September 2003 14:21 (sixteen years ago) link

Justyn I feel justified in disliking him cos A) if can dislike "One Beat" as strongly as he seems to in relation to the others he's a gimp ("All Hands" is much worse, for a start), and B) he doesn't like the Fall

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Sunday, 21 September 2003 14:29 (sixteen years ago) link

then i named like four other songs and they wouldn't play any of them! we finally settled on "ballad of a ladyman."

Justyn Dillingham (Justyn Dillingham), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 11:37 (sixteen years ago) link

I hate the bloody "Swimmer"

HERESY

the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 11:40 (sixteen years ago) link

i reckon assdrew is just pretending to hate those songs. either that or hes a robot.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 12:13 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah it's a scam, try and work out what I hope to gain by it!

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 12:14 (sixteen years ago) link

a high flying political career?

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 12:20 (sixteen years ago) link

No, I'm trying to get excommunicated from the Order of the Divine Jim

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 12:21 (sixteen years ago) link

HERESY

Doctrine!

Leee (Leee), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 17:43 (sixteen years ago) link

Vic I have t-shirt with all 3 members on it ergo I'm best fan ever.

Leee (Leee), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 17:44 (sixteen years ago) link

hey what'd i do?

the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 23 September 2003 22:06 (sixteen years ago) link

I would just like to state that I ADORE "Leave You Behind" and "The Swimmer." Pompeii and #1 Must Have are just too didactic and the latter is pretty damn limp musically too.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:16 (sixteen years ago) link

Dig Me Out gets extra points for having one of the best covers of all-time. Too bad that KRS doesn't have the posters of it anymore.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:30 (sixteen years ago) link

One Beat is actually the album that made me reconsider the band. Always found them overly-dramatic and just plain annoying before. Somehow, the lusher arrangements and the cute backing vocals on One Beat make it easier to appreciate the band's virtues by distracting from a vocalist/lyricist who (I assume this won't be controversial) can be off-putting if you're not already converted. I had One Beat on at the gym yesterday, and it really is incredibly solid. Actually raised goose bumps not once but twice.

dlp9001, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 02:36 (sixteen years ago) link

leee i have a sleater-kinney t shirt too.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:18 (sixteen years ago) link

We should hook up.

Leee (Leee), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:21 (sixteen years ago) link

Additionally, "Jenny" is a helluva way to end Dig Me Out.

Leee (Leee), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:23 (sixteen years ago) link

i have that poster, milo.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:38 (sixteen years ago) link

FEEL THE SLEATER-KINNEY LUV, OR ELSE!!!

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 03:38 (sixteen years ago) link

B-b-but Leee, you were supposed to lez up with me!

jaymc (jaymc), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 04:52 (sixteen years ago) link

i have that poster, milo.

I've been thinking of making my own. A good clean copy of the album cover, scan it into Photoshop, use Genuine Fractals to make it huge, and output at one of the good print shops around here.

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 05:27 (sixteen years ago) link

I don't think a cover of an album cover counts as a GREAT COVER, y'know. Except as a "GREAT COVER". Jim, you accused me of heresy, I figured I should get out before guilt set in.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 14:11 (sixteen years ago) link

jaymc, what color lipstick should I put on?

Leee (Leee), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:00 (sixteen years ago) link

on behalf of the international telepaths, i would like to tell assdrew that a cover of an album cover DOES count as a great album cover. so there.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 20:50 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah it's pretty cool I guess y'know

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:03 (sixteen years ago) link

I really admire the oh so accidental placing of that Black Sabbath poster, too

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:20 (sixteen years ago) link

I don't even mean that, I'm sick of this thread

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:27 (sixteen years ago) link

Nah not really, and besides I do like that cover.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:10 (sixteen years ago) link

i love this thread, haven't you noticed how i'm determined to keep it going?

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:30 (sixteen years ago) link

God I hate this dumbass band

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:32 (sixteen years ago) link

you hate them so much you travelled to melbourne just to see them play.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:47 (sixteen years ago) link

I just felt like going for an extremely expensive highprice season plane ticket trip, they happened to be there too

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:51 (sixteen years ago) link

you are full of sleater-kinney coincidences. like how you just happened to be in the kings arms both nights they played there. its like fate is trying to throw you together.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:52 (sixteen years ago) link

While I'm at, POTS? Melbourne, what's up w/that? "We only have pots" "Dubious frown" Yeah me and Corin's pretty fated, man. I think I annoyed her THREE TIMES actually

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:53 (sixteen years ago) link

sorry to burst your bubble, but she doesn't seem very selective with her glares.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:55 (sixteen years ago) link

Nah when I was talking to her afterwards. Alex in Melbourne thought she was giving him the eye!

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:56 (sixteen years ago) link

what's wrong with pots? do you prefer middies?

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:56 (sixteen years ago) link

MIDDIES??? Yeah, maybe...

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:57 (sixteen years ago) link

whaddya call em in Noisyland?

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:59 (sixteen years ago) link

"Pints"

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:00 (sixteen years ago) link

stupid fucking angeline gave carrie our 10", how EMBARASSING. way to give some rock star a badly-recorded 10" of your band that was only together for 3 months.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:01 (sixteen years ago) link

but 1 pint = 2 pots

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:02 (sixteen years ago) link

In one glass, though! I was more annoyed that once the band started the stagecrush was such that we couldn't get anywhere near the bar. Also I'm annoyed we didn't run into you at all.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:08 (sixteen years ago) link

i was hidden under the stampy feet of cranky looking girls

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:10 (sixteen years ago) link

corin?

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:11 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah they could've stopped being all tough enough to look happy at the amazing performance of their favourite band, don't you think?

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:11 (sixteen years ago) link

damn straight

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:20 (sixteen years ago) link

corin looked quite happy

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:20 (sixteen years ago) link

thats good. i wish she'd been happier in auckland.

The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Thursday, 25 September 2003 07:14 (sixteen years ago) link

fifteen years pass...

personally i wish corin had NEVER had singing lessons, she used to sound much more expressive.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Sunday, September 21, 2003 2:17 AM (fifteen years ago)

j., Tuesday, 6 August 2019 02:24 (four months ago) link

Corin was also literally destroying her voice before she got lessons so

Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Tuesday, 6 August 2019 02:35 (four months ago) link

so much the better for her, so much the worse for us

j., Tuesday, 6 August 2019 02:49 (four months ago) link


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