Squarepusher: _Go Plastic_

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Anyone else heard this? Are people still completely over the Squarepusher vibe, or has this new release rekindled interest? And how great is "I Wish You Could Talk"?

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

ok, My Red Hot Car is brilliant, a real surprise, probably the best thing he's ever done. but the rest is the same old squarepusher story. promises much, doesn't really deliver.

gareth, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Have to agree with Gareth, it seems like everybody welcomes the idea of Squarepusher having a hit single with 'My Red Hot Cock' (sorry, car), but as a whole the album is depressingly retro, those fidgety drum'n'bass fills just sound really dated now.

I'd recommend anyone contemplating this release to buy something by DAT Politics or Scratch Pet Land instead. Those groups are the sound of 2001, Squarepusher, alas, is stuck in 1997.

Momus, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Why is it wrong to sound like 1997, particularly if you do it well?

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

God, what sort of a denouncement is that? What does it say about technology and techno music, if to sound "so 1997" in 2001 is a fate worse than death? Would it have been so terrible to sound "so 1797" in 1801?

masonic boom, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

momus, what DAT politics should i buy? i have Sous Hit but don't like it very much, felt like a poor mans Schlampeitziger

gareth, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Sounds can easily sound stale within four years. Oasis sounded mildly fresh in 1994. By 1998 it was the sound of stagnation.

Nick, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Oasis didn't even sound fresh in 1994. They might have sounded fresh in 1974, but I doubt it. I know that genres or music or even sounds can become dated, but it just seems to me to become increasingly quick. A song from 1980 would sound dated to us. But it would not have sounded that dated in 1984.

masonic boom, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Oasis sounded like a fresh pile of shit. I haven't heard the new Squarepusher but I will say that bands like that who make their name by sounding new and interesting will surely fall when the needle gets stuck on the same old samples.

Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

OK, Oasis was a bad example. Trip hop then.

Nick, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

This whole 'so 1997' issue does also lead me to wonder if the people who make such denouncements actually listen to electronic music for any other reason than 'because it sounds cutting edge'. The sidelining of the new Orbital record because it sounds 'dated' is a case of point, but in a dance scene when records are rendered obsolete by the time they even hit the record shops, should we really give a shit?

Personally, I just don't get the new album, although I like some of his previous work. I don't understand why this kind of aural scribbling is considered avant-garde, or intelligent, or anything like that. In any right thinking world, a lot of the stuff on that album would be vilified as a drum solo played at double speed, but because it's been made using computers, it's automatically the future.

Matt D'Cruz, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Maybe I'm a little oversensitive to certain sounds being 'dated', but if I am it's because I make music, not just for myself as an artist, but for others as a producer. For instance, I made an album for Laila France in 1997 which mixed lounge strings with drum 'n' bass-ish rhythms. At the time it was the right thing to do. On Thursday I'm going into Cornelius's studio with a Japanese artist, Emi Necozawa, to make a new record. If I were to say 'Right, we're going to give this a bit of a drum and bass flavour' I think the label and the artist would, quite rightly, question my competence and even my sanity. Kahimi Karie wept actual tears when I did a slightly drum and bass mix of 'The Seventh Wife Of Henry VIII' in late 1999 and I had to pass it off as a joke, saying it was for the Korean market. One of your jobs as a record producer is to avoid giving your artist last year's sound.

Now I may just be a magpie, a pop maven, a jumper on other people's bandwagons, a fairweather friend, a johnny come lately. It's the misfortune of Tom Jenkinson (aka Squarepusher) that he helped to define the d+b genre. He has every right to continue living there and enjoying rent control. But, I ask myself, did Picasso stick to Cubism all his life just because he helped invent it? Should David Bowie have stuck to Glam Rock, just because he was in at its spangly dawn?

Lightning does strike twice. Tom is talented enough to spawn some other styles, so I wish he'd get out on some new limb.

Momus, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Of course, the other thing you do with styles which have outlived their avant garde status and fallen behind the cutting edge is popularise them. And 'Red Hot Car' sounds like exactly that: an attempt by a genuine pioneer to cash in on his own innovations. I like to see innovators getting paid (rather than falling victim to Madonnas or David Bowies a-sniffing for fresh blood), but almost by definition popularity arrives when they're no longer innovators. It's always sad to see someone who was once blinding becoming merely.... bright.

Momus, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

"One of your jobs as a record producer is to avoid giving your artist last year's sound."

And one of my jobs as a record consumer is to not give a shit about what the common consensus is, and if a great drum'n'bass (or whatever they're calling it these days) record comes out that sounds like last years style, then so be it.

Also, what makes you think that just because something is 'popular' it can't be 'innovative' at the same time. Look at what's happening in hip-hop at the moment - musical genre starts off underground, goes supernova in wake of PE/NWA then reaches critical meltdown around the time of Tupac/Biggie/Puff Daddy in 96 or therabouts, with the hype around the music eclipsing the music itself, which became very tame and commercial. Via a brief flirtation with old-school revivalism, this then opened the door for the next generation, with people like Outkast and the Neptunes fucking with the formula whilst selling vast truckloads of records at the same time.

Maybe you should go in and make an off-kilter post-drum'n'bass influenced record. At this point in time, it would be the most convention-defying thing you could do, because it's what everyone's telling you not to do. Which, I suppose, illustrates what a bullshit philosiphy this is really.

Matt D'Cruz, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

There's really little worse than musicians who do the same thing their whole life. That's not being an artist, thats being a freakin TV Child actor, like Webster or Gary COleman.

Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

This is one of the problems I'm having getting into a lot of electronic music. I'm not prejudiced against it and would like to get deeper into it, but just when it seems I've picked something up, it's "out" and people roll their eyes when you tell them you like this or that. I'm really fed up with it because I'm open-minded and adventurous but I don't have enough money to keep up with this cutting-edge shit and neither does most of the planet. I mean, in my day, it didn't matter what records you had - you could have nothing but 8-tracks and still be "cool", because it was all about attitude and creativity, and not about knowing and owning what the very latest thing is. The economics of all of this just makes me sick, but perhaps my perception is all wrong.

Kerry Keane, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Momus: interesting point, although as a performer in a genre where the most popular pieces are more than 200 years old, I'm not entirely sure I agree. I think there a lot of people out there so obsessed with the concepts of "new" and "innovative" that they forget the concept of "well-executed". Something new that is sloppy and alienating should not automatically be assumed to be better than something that is familiar but done really, really well.

The main criticism I can think of for the new Squarepusher is that a lot of the tracks on the record lack the melodic center that runs through his best work. The tracks that do have it ("My Red Hot Car" and "I Wish You Could Talk" being two immediate examples) are blisteringly hot.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

For Kerry -- well, one of the advantages of mp3 life is that theoretically it's easier to chase down such stuff and get an initial impression without having to spend as much. Napster in its original incarnation was perfect for this, of course, but the alternates are at least something of an option. I think your overall point, and Dan's, are very valid, though.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Worrying about the latest thing, that's a job for 16-year-olds or utilitarians.

tarden, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I feel compelled to mention that I intend to investigate Momus's suggestions, as this is a type of music I tend to go gaga over.

Dan Perry, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I don't think the Timelord was being intirely serious about things being against things"so 1997"....

Mike Hanle y, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

"go plastic" is good. and red hot car is more than just cash-in single. i, for one, was interested to hear his take on garage. "i wish you could talk" is lovely, if a bit familiar. sounds like "tundra part 2" to me. the reason squarepusher works for me is that he suprises the hell out of me at least once an album. granted, this doesn't always make for lasting appreciation, but it's a lot of fun when he catches me off guard. on go plastic that moment was just over halfway through "the exploding psychology" when he pulls that g- funk synth riff out of nowhere. and it was exactly where i least expected it. right after he'd been in some of the most familiar territory i'd heard so far on the album (dropping "champion sound" samples, no less).

regarding the musical-shelf-life problem: artists like squarepusher who espouse a futuristic aesthetic sort of setthemselves up for this kind of dismissal. live by the sword...

Toby, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Yeah, Napster was really good for that. Had it on the computer at work until there was a big expose in the college newspaper about people using Napster at work. Now there's a firewall to prevent Napster-like activities. I do try to listen to internet radio from time to time, however, but I usually end up listening to college radio programs, which aren't focused on electronic music.

Kerry Keane, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

All depends on where you're looking though, Kerry. KUCI, for example, has a number of them, and has done for many years now, and I can't believe we're the only station out there with such a focus. www.hyperreal.org might well have more resources you can check out.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Gareth: you asked what DAT Politics to buy, I'd recommend 'Tracto Flirt'. They have a track on the excellent Ski-pp records compilation (check www.ski-pp.com). Scratch Pet Land released their first album on Mouse on Mars' label Sonig in March, it's called 'Solo Soli iiiii' and is interesting to listen to precisely because they put sounds together in a fresh way (African, electronic, Pierre Schaeffer meets Sun Ra).

To those who grumbled about 'dated' music, I'd simply ask: if sounds can't grow stale, how can they ever be fresh? I know my ears twitch and stretch when they're hearing something that can't quite be placed, can't be filed under any of the pre-existing headings in my brain. That's called listening, and we do surprisingly little of it. Habit, as Samuel Beckett said, is a great deadener.

Momus, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Actually, DAT Politics' 'Villiger' sounds good too, must get that:

http://pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/d/dat-politics/villiger.shtml

(for rather ponderous Pitchfork review).

Momus, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

On the whole dated thing: strange that someone would finally complain about this when the criticism is used *constantly*. My favourite example of the diss (although I agree with it) is Tom's entire review of Mya's 'Case of the Ex' in the Pop Focus Group, as follows:

"If this had come out in 1999, I'd have given it 10. If I'd heard it in early 2000, I'd have given it 8. Now, 6, but let us have no more of this sort of thing."

It's not a question of whether the sound has dated so much as whether the idea's rehashed. '77 punk did sound dated by '81: not only had punk split up into the critically praised post-punk and the sneered at Oi!, but even post-punk was starting to be superceded by New Pop. Someone still making first wave punk would have in effect missed two boats.

My point being: this is not exclusively a dance music thing, and it's not even as common in dance music as some might think - Orbital's new album isn't really "dated", it's just not particularly good compared to their previous work.

Squarepusher especially can be guilty of sounding rehashed. Drill & Bass is basically one wacky idea ("hey, what if we made drum & bass totally weird and undanceable!?!?")... it's a very funny idea, and there's been some great music in this style (Aphex Twin, Plug, mU-Ziq, Squarepusher himself on occasions), but it's an idea that derives much of its appeal from its wackiness. Which tends to fade over the course of five years if nothing new is being done. Unsurprisingly maybe, drill & bass's creative cul-de-sac has pretty much mirrored that of drum & bass itself.

Squarepusher, more than any of those other artists, has barely changed his original sound (a few more jazzy frills, maybe?), and since he's also perhaps the most prolific artist of his type he has the least excuse. Which is why "My Red Hot Car", which actually does do something new, seems like a breath of fresh air in comparison. Under the circumstances the question of innovation becomes sort of irrelevant - Squarepusher doesn't want to advance, he wants to the satirise the advancements of others - but the whole point of satire is that it's supposed to be topical ie. current.

What bugs me slightly about the rush to praise "My Red Hot Car" (and yes, I do like it, but that's hardly the point) is that so many people are assuming that it is (again) such a wacky, inspired idea to do to garage what he initially did to jungle, when I would have thought it was the most obvious move to make if you were an artist desperate to extend your aesthetic and commercial lifespan just a few more months. Squarepusher's take on dancehall... now that's what I'd really like to see.

Tim, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Meant to say: "although i disagree with it". "Case of the Ex" is ace.

Tim, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Masonic Kate said: I know that genres or music or even sounds can become dated, but it just seems to me to become increasingly quick. A song from 1980 would sound dated to us. But it would not have sounded that dated in 1984.

I think it's the other way round. A song from 1980 would probably sound pretty fresh to us, but would have sounded terrible in 1984. It's not that either impression would be more 'objective', just that style and fashion tend to move (I won't say advance) by reaction against what immediately precedes, and by revival and recontextualisation of what's a little further away.

I'd say this has a lot to do with familiarity breeding contempt, and over-exposure robbing recent art of the mystery it needs to appeal to us. (See Denis Donoghue's Reith lectures, 'The Arts Without Mystery', for a good discussion of the importance of strangeness and unfamiliarity in art.) Hype, trendiness and over-exposure in the media can all rob pop music of its mystery and hasten its demise. Music stripped of mystery in this way seems to be 'killed' but is only stunned. It will be back in about ten years in the guise of retro and nostalgia. Music under-exposed and under-hyped in its time will also be back, if it was in any way visionary, in the guise of tomorrow's curated, saluted cult pioneers.

This is the game we play, as I know it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Momus, Tuesday, 10 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I think Tim makes a very good point with his lovely turn of phrase "creative cul-de-sac", though I might add that it wasn't the death of the novelty of drill- or even drum-n'-bass as much as the complete inability of the people making it to take it in new directions. Other movements have survived because they could evolve, ie. hard rock = heavy metal because Sabbath took Zeppelin and made it their own, and it was good. Drum and bass kind of painted itself into a corner because the evolution was infinitely less interesting than the genesis. I don't even know what drill and bass evolved into. My point is that it wasn't the datedness of the sound that killed dnb, it was the boring dark nonsense that nobody liked. If Big Loada had never happened until today, we'd still like it, but you can't make a Big Loada II without doing something interesting to the sound. And if Momus were to make a vocal record that hinted at that older sound, the problem would not be that he referenced drum and bass, it would be that he didn't do anything interesting to it. If he did, then it would be a good mix, and we all would rush out and buy copies. Case in point: what's worse, rappers that use old school-sounding beats a la J5 with Cut Chemist, or shitty singers who use old school-sounding beats behind their acoustic guitars to sound hip? People will accept "dated" sounds provided they're done right. The fact that anybody was able to get away with doing uninteresting drum and bass mixes seven years ago just proves that there are a lot of trend hoppers out there.

Dave M., Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

The concept of 'doing things right' = equally spurious as being "current" = yet more ways of justifying that which need not be justified (subjective reactions). How can anything be 'current' when everybody's experience of time is different anyway? I think many people believe that everyone in the world receives the same music at the same time and reacts to it with the same speed.

tarden, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

couple things:

i think its a myth that drill'n'bass is the idea of making it all undanceable, tim. i mean, going to Nesh (rip) and there's, lke, Ovuca and Bogdan R and stuff and everyone is dancing. squarepushers new one does sound dated. this isn't a bad thing per se but i don't think its working for tom j. the one track that does sound fresh (my red hot car) is him coming to terms with garage (a bit late in my view but he pulled it off so fair play). the rest sounds exactly like hard normal daddy and feed me weird things. the thing is, they weren't great records either. each track got boring too quickly (whereas rdj and mike p didn't - more invention). there are other breaks besides the amen break you know!

but sqrpshr did try other things (music is rotted, maximum priest, er, that other one!), but that fusiony thing he was trying just didn't come off.

the thing is, he can do it (My red hot car, journey to needham, iambic 5 poetry), just not that often...

will check out villager and tracto-flirt. thanks for the recommendation.

gareth, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Thanks Gareth, that reminds me of the bit that I was going to say, but forgot: Squarepusher's modus operandi is only a certain strain of drill & bass, and said strain is usually too close to novelty/undanceability/wackiness to have a long shelf life. When he's more serious (although not too jazzy) he can be excellent eg. Theme From Ernest Borgvine.

Examples of artists who have co-opted drum & bass for non-dancefloor purposes that I think still sound pretty fresh today: Aphex Twin, Mouse On Mars, Plaid, (some) Plug, Jega, Hrvstkai (or however you say it), Orbital, Kid 606, (some) Alec Empire, mu-Ziq, Bogdan. In other words: most of them, it seems!

Tim, Wednesday, 11 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

just so everyone knows, Momus was incredibly slow to pick up on the Scratch Pet Land CD, heh heh heh. it's been out for months.

all kidding aside, i haven't heard all of the new SqP LP yet, but red hot car was catchy, but i got tired of it quickly. the new oval, scratch pet land, and mouse on mars albums all thrilled me a lot more. actually, as blasphemous as some people may find this, i thought the new autechre was a bit disappointing also... perhaps my tastes are changing, or perhaps i'm starting to hear more artists who make the sounds i hear in my head... though i liked the new Prefuse 73 album, which is essentially mildly abstract hip hop tracks... not innovative, but funky as all hell. i love the new air album mostly because when i first listened, it was nothing like i'd imagined it to be... and it was still catchy as hell.

it may be important to be trendy, but it can also be liberating to be nonchalant about your listening tastes- which usually starts new trands anyhow.

mike j, Saturday, 14 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Orbital's new album doesn't sound dated. It sounds pants, apart from about three tracks. David Gray? Why?! WHY?!!

Great art transcends it's status as a commodity, and probably it's chronological creation also.

Sly Stone stilkl sounds fresh to me, so does Aphex Twin's ealy ambient stuff, just 'cos it's wicked.

Nick Southall, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Yeah, "Selected Ambient Works 85-92" could come out today and much of it would still be mindblowing. But I don't think that's because it's "art" vs. generic dancefloor fare. I think it's more that the music strenuously avoided any references to anything else going on at that point - the music has this really greyscale featurelessness/genrelessness about it - and the sequel album even more so. Also the pure strain of ambient it peddles (none of the eco-bliss trappings of balearic/chill out, much closer to Eno) has been around for so long and has been so stylistically consistent that it's virtually impossible to "date" the music, much less find it dated.

This sort of timelessness is not necessarily a good thing though: the same could be said of house music, which up until very recently had not done anything particularly new in ages. Is this a good thing? I'm not so sure. Compare and contrast with hardcore/early jungle, which was literally built out of cross-referencing with other contemporary productions, and all the better for it I say.

Tim, Sunday, 15 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

hey what about "my red hot car" specificially...i hought it wasnt up to much really. his 'take' on garage? just sounded like: someoone who "hates garage" trying to take the piss out of it a bit, but ending up with something way below the standard of what he is trying to parody, in terms of production anyway.

even if theres no irony intended, it still isnt particualy exciting for me.

i just found it strange that all these (warp-type) people did exciting radical things a few years ago, in terms of beat production, but when r'n'b + garage started to go way ahead, they sort of refused to take it seriusoly and carried on produced the stuff they had been for ages....'selection sixteen"???

but its not bad....

ambrose, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Yeah, the funny thing with "My Red Hot Car" is how late it is - four years after the first fully-formed 2-step tracks. Makes drill & bass's two year timelag seem quite respectable by comparison.

Actually, there was a 2-step homage prior to "My Red Hot Car" - Beta Band's "Sequinsizer", which also managed to be a much better record in and of itself.

Tim, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

it sucks.

ethan, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Welcome back Ethan, if that's you!

Robin Carmody, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

This may be of interest - a couple of weeks ago AFX delivered a double album to Warp, for release later in the year. He's not rewriting the book on UK garage, it's quiet and still, similar to Ambient Works 2, if anything.

K-reg, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

it is indeed, robin. thanks for the welcoming back. i'm ploddingly taking in the huge amount of ilm backlog from my absence, but rest assured i'll be catching up as soon as i can. hello again you wonderful people!

(er, clarification of my thoughts on the new squarepusher: it all sounds the same, unlike feed me weird things, which is rather ecletic and is also glorious. 'my red hot car' reminds me of 'windowlicker' which of course is a far better song.)

ethan, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Cool, Ethan is back.

Patrick, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

EVERYONE LOVES ME

topics i am posting about far too much on my heralded return: 1) the new squarepusher's abject suckiness 2) the new plaid's abject prettiness. but it's okay because I LOVE EVERYONE.

ethan, Tuesday, 17 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

four months pass...
has anyone heard the new untitled 12"?? i heard its really good, but i'm dubious. i don't want to get burned again!

gareth, Tuesday, 4 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

First time I heard the new 12" track (on the radio) I thought it was pure awesomeness. Found it online, listened, thought, "is this the same track? it's not nearly as good as I remember." Listened a bit more, and I think it's pretty good, not as fantastic as I remember but all right. If you liked Red Hot Car then you'll probably like it even if you didn't like the rest of Go Plastic, it's got the mashedup breaks except without the garage vibe, and there's some nice slightly Chris-Clark-ish synths. Still, I preferred RHC... warmer, more exciting, catchier. I don't know, I'm rubbish at describing and reviewing stuff.

Over the Squarepusher vibe? I don't much care for the jazzy bits, but I am so not over drill'n'bass. I sulk at the mere implication it might be outdated, because if I ever release anything in the foreseeable future that's roughly where I'll be. Hopefully Hrvatski will get round to releasing the album he's been promising for ages and show all the drill'n'bass-haters how wrong they are. :)

Rebecca, Tuesday, 4 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Hrvatski's new album is coming out next year on planet-mu, mike paradinas' label. i don't think there has been a definite release date set, yet, but i'm guessing march or april.

todd burns, Tuesday, 4 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

god what a cunt i sound like upthread.

ethan, Tuesday, 4 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

squarepusher owns!

chaki, Tuesday, 4 December 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

one month passes...
You are all stupid fucking cunts. Squarepusher was just rinsing his analogue shit. Wait for the best to come.

again you are all pricks

Phil Thompson, Thursday, 24 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

sorry phil. no offence intended!

gareth, Thursday, 24 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

twenty years pass...

Everyone stil enjoying those old DAT Politics records here in the future?

Go Plastic rools.

feed me with your clicks (Noel Emits), Thursday, 5 May 2022 09:42 (one year ago) link


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