'Loathsome New Yorkers'?: Strokes, Nas, Jay-Z & Patti Smith

Needs even MORE adjectives and phrases like "tired hack"!

He’s four-hundred-feet tall, he’s got flowing blond locks, he’s shirtless, his pubes are showing and you can almost hear him saying: "Yeah, and what are you going to do about it, bitch?" Life in this city is difficult enough without having to navigate a path to work every morning through a forest of giant, pouting supermodels.

how could the authors(s) survive in LA?

Oh no! CAREERIST!! OH NO!!!

isn't he australian anyway? or can you be included on the list if you even thought about NY one time in your past?

I believe he's included because his image is inescapable.

and anybody who can make a career like that (ie doing what she does as well as mother, homemaker, wife etc. etc.) is doing more credibly than ny "careerist" journalist stymied by their own editors -- surely these journalist are (privately) joking so as to specifically re-draw attention to what patti smith has been able to achieve recently, which would be a hard act to follow for most "careerist" media types -- given the mccarthy-esque landscape, these journalists' careers might well be at risk, so isn't this the only way they can actually put patti smith up in lights ?

dylan tours with patti smith in this part of the world too. he tours with jewel in this part of the world also.

and ditto to what mr. blount said -- how is a list where Ann Coulter is (rightly) skewered evidence of "neo-mccarthyism"?

how else would smith get mentioned ? won't ny city dwellers in particular be pushed the iraq as revenge angle most by the media, even if the people don't like it ?

isn't it easy to find trivial ways to discredit smith ("old rocker", "careerist sellout", "recycling the same material" ..).. all hopeless hack cliches

maybe the same old history is repeating itself ? is there something wrong with her merely suggesting these things ? don't you pride yourselves on your world-distinguished "democracy" ? and was she wrong the first time ?

another name thrown into a maybe somewhat credible list -- this proves nothing about that person -- guilt by mere editorial association -- and "commercial nullity", jeez there's a really important consideration

and, just a tad more,
"rants" serve a purpose, if we presume that's what you think this is, even if you might believe (using the same criteria ?) that what you've said isn't

didn't patti smith show that sometimes "babbleons" or "rants" have there place (even if she's meeting you half way by using those overloaded words in the first place) ?

patti smith might be the same old news ("the u.s. is the imperialist aggressor/ invader/ cynical warmonger"), but isn't it just that it's so uncomfortable for u.s. citizens to admit that it might all still be true that some don't like discussing it ?

i respect her as a person, but i never liked her music much.

i love some music, and when we can see patti smith using music however boringly to try and do something or say something or just present some opinion about what the u.s. is doing right now, whether for domestic u.s. consumption or to show that the media/rock machine can have some performer from the Vietnam times consistent and so maybe somewhat more credible than in a simply cynical industry/protest sense simply getting up and taking the flak for saying something controversial, that's good, even if you don't agree with her

look at hollywood not knowing how to handle it's demographic during the moore speech -- i'm sure smith would sell more records if she was for the war, and i'm sure rumsfeld would love some rock star to come forward and take a pro-war position, but she hasn't and can you think of anyone that has ?

a dixie chick gets records burned in the u.s. for simply offering an opinion -- isn't that what democracy is all about ? these record burnings resemble witch burning from the middle ages or something from the taliban -- while the u.s. is doing illegal unilateral invasions, selective uses of the geneva convention, "with us or against us" bully boy rhetoric and seemingly doing everthing possible to de-stabilise the middle east, one wonders whether it is so cool to venture an opinion about this openly in the u.s.

u2 always wanted to save the world, but they're always sitting on the fence when it comes to their backbone constituency in the u.s. -- however effective an advocate you find patti smith, i find i have to at least admire her bravery
(given the climate the u.s. is pulling down on the u.n., the e.u., turkey/ syria/ russia /saudi arabia etc. etc.) -- who's next ?

what's "head in my ass" mean ? cowboy talk ? can't you think of a more polite and precise way of explaining what you think ? you're talking to someone from another country/culture here -- how about just a suggestion more care when it comes to non-americans ?

i also fail to see how what patti smith is doing is particularly "brave," since patti smith is commercially and artistically irrelevant (unlike the dixie chicks) and in any event confines her schtick to the already-converted (again, unlike the dixie chicks). and even if ms. smith were "brave," that still doesn't mean that her art is worth a hot damn nor does it mean that she's above reproach in any way.

however, to the extent that she elucidates something to an audience using rock'n'roll means, in these circumstances (the message is important), i think the end possibly justifies the means

i'm not a big fan of smith's music, but to the extent that it engages a maybe hitherto ambivalent rock audience in these issues with maybe different perspectives i think has to be justified -- ok if her message somehow convinces no-one or even alienates, annoys or palls, ok it it completely fails then that's a bad thing for the media, the public, the truth etc. -- but if it falls short of completely failing then it must be doing a good thing, even in a small way, ie it must be going in the right direction

it is hard to imagine smith of all people cynically milking this stuff, and all her behavior over the years seems to indicate passion first and foremost, with little evidence of cynicism except to the extent that she will try and push an issue into the rock media as any passionate person would using all means possible ie i don't care how well she's doing it, just that she is doing it

in the environment evidenced by what happened to the dixie chicks, let's say then, ok forget p smith, who's going to tackle this issue in light of what happened to the dixie chicks ? preaching to the converted provides the base of strength that the dixie chicks didn't have to take these issues to the public -- a catch 22 perhaps, but who else can you point to that's even trying to handle this issue musically ?
i ask this because during the vietnam war protest music was amost common compared to these ultra-conservative times -- today the music industry is so de-radicalised and normalised, so generic, are there real artists ? do we have to rely on an "old punk" because hollywood/music are more interlinked and trenchant now than ever ? because it's a "psychological war" ? because propoganda can include pop music ? because media on both sides are complying to military demands to win hearts and minds ? to what extent did these entrenched patriotic considerations within the media effect precisiely the sort of pre-emptive strike on smith that this list inclusion could be seen to be ?

and where are the rest of the artists ? do you keep your head down ? this war is as wrong as Vietnam or Palestine, but u.s. artists shy away from the Palestine issue consistently -- is criticism of the israeli regime simply commercial suicide in the u.s. ? by extension, is artistic reaction to this campaign in the middle east to be left to people like smith, who you might say have nothing left to lose ?

The Dixie Chicks = a group with ridiculous amounts of commercial appeal (over 850,000 tickets have been sold for 26 upcoming U.S. Dixie Chicks concerts, with each arena selling out in less than an hour), not to mention that their latest album has probably sold more copies than all of Patti Smith's recorded output put together. They've got widespread recognition among (I would hazard a guess) a largely conservative demographic. Natalie Maines' antiwar statement was far more potent and revolutionary and anti-establishment than anything Patti Smith could have ever said. (Too bad the Dixie Chicks had to eat their words later, though.)

It's really not though (and I like P Smith).

35 Jason Sehorn, Athlete

The underperforming underwear model with declining skills is soon to be an ex-New Yorker, having been cut by the Giants few weeks back. Sehorn was the poster child for the phenomenon of overpaid athletes who want all the idiotic trimmings of sports celebrity without having to do the very occasional "hard" part—in his case, providing run support on 2nd and 6. While more than happy to let Michael Strahan and Kenny Holmes do the dirty work up front, Sehorn never missed a chance to be in a shirtless workout video, ring the starting bell at the Nasdaq or show off his coif while bopping around town with his hideous non-actress wife, Law & Order catastrophe Angie Harmon. The cornerback position apparently being insufficiently glorious, he once begged for a job returning kicks in pre-season and immediately ripped up his knee, dooming his team’s defense for the season.

FUck you Seawhore!

Sorry, I have nothing to say about the Strokes, the rap feud, or Patti Smith so I'm resorting to making fun of athletes.

One of the first thangs I wrote ever. About patti smith.

you point out the feeling of death popping up at times throughout this smith album -- if it's about these harsh realities, then such an album will feel directionless or bothersome -- the need for music to balance the words and somehow make the experience of listening palletable versus the need to reflect or carry the words, so that the words ring true

i think p smith is impassioned with pointing out these things accurately, truthfully -- being a rock "punk" "poet" is to be honest, so the story the journalist is reporting here doesn't sound fun -- it isn't -- but sterling seems to be noting that the feel of the music works for the words, so the message feels right

being a punk poet might sound fun (and i take "rock n roll nigger" to be an advertisement or life-style job description of it, as well as an admission that the other side of sex/rock/art is the harder fem-rock job of nururing, cultivation, creation, motherhood), but being a cultural inbetween reporting such truths that it is often polite to avoid in conversation will leave you in the "rock n roll nigger" position -- she's quite right (i presume)-- a hard job

(and thanks sterling -- so few patti smith albums in the first place, so not wishing to satiate myself in smith-ville (hang in the moral high ground to the extent that i don't properly notice these political intractibles, or maybe i'm scared to really hear it ..) i've not got around to hearing the album you're reviewed, and now i feel like i've been there as a tourist (yeah, must listen to that other "gang of four" album one day too)

clearly 'mccarthy-ist' is a fair measure of the hard-talk coming from the bush administration, especially after 911 and expecially in the pro-war propoganda double standards (like the parading of iraqi POWs on u.s. tv) -- it's a term for the atmosphere towards perceived un-patriotic behaviour -- so it doesn't have much to do with the rest of the list, so what ?

the list itself is as much fashion as fact, as you'd expect from weekend papers -- i don't think the list on smith (as completely reprinted in the header to this thread) has anything particularly informed, interesting, new or revealing to say, but the i wouldn't have expected anything better from an editorial smear sheet masqerading as a somehow "informed" or "anecdotal" "poll"

maybe people do like her elsewhere more than in her hometown -- it still has resonance for people, and people still like her '70s work for what it did -- the supposedly credible female rock message most people i know are bored with is kim gordon's -- in this part of the world, patti smith hasn't overstayed her welcome -- she's an american who seen as not afraid to criticise the generic patriotism that often seems to be the root cause of the bad stuff america does (stuff like "home of the brave" or [america is the greatest democracy in the world])

the way i see things, the ny post finding another new take on john cage is a much greater example of old rope, but then you'd expect me to be bored with gordon and cage wouldn't you ? but america "putting the world to right" invading one country and ignoring the 50 year old human rights abuses and un resolutions relating to just-about neighnour israel is worse than boring -- and the u.s. media is complicit in this !

smith being anti-war is nothing if not consistent -- america turning on her when convenient and lumping her in with what look to be really quite bad people however.., jeez, why do you think it so easy for iraqi people to distrust the u.s., and for them to believe the real motivation is zionist ?

does gosset still post here?

Bashing Yoko Ono is pretty much as lame as it gets. Sure she's a bit loopy sometimes but pick other targets PLEASE!

I heard Yoko Ono had a piece in MOMA that was a camera pointed at the sky outside going to a TV. If that's true, I really don't mind if she gets made fun of, that's the most didactic bullshit I've ever encountered.

How is that didactic?

How is that didactic?

Even though it's not explicit, it just seems like a terribly heavy handed way of saying 'go outside.' Maybe there's more to it, but ughha.

Actually I read about it and it says it's about looking at the sky for hope or something? I don't have a problem with Yoko, I'm not familiar with her at all, that just seems really inane to me.

Yeah, but her pop albums kill!

I heard Yoko Ono had a piece in the MOMA..

I heard Yoko Ono drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls.

I heard Yoko Ono drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls.

Whatever, man! I've got more important things to do than argue, like apply more lip balm.

"I heard Yoko Ono drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls."

I heard she broke up the Rolling Stones.