Midnight Oil: Classic or G'dud!

ubiquitous down here in late 70s - early 80s and, i suppose, the acceptable face of stadium style rock. i couldn't stand them but, at least, they weren't Inxs.

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/pic200_web/drp100/p151/p15173bocj2.jpg

I'm glad Garrett's decided to stop talking the talk but keeping walking the walk. Though I don't want to see him do that funny walk ever again.

* -- That's "The Angels" to all you marsupials in the land downunder.

Having a video does not equate with having a "hit". Ask John Q. Public on the street to name a Midnight Oil song, and if they can do it, it'll invariably be "Beds Are Burning." Yes, they had other songs (so did Devo), but the only one anyone seems to remember is that one.

nope, not SURE -- that's why I said "I think." I mean, I've never seen them mention it in an interview. But there's definitely some stuff on those Angels albums that sounds proto-Midnight-Oil to me.

Best two albums: Head Injuries (1979) and Place Without a Postcard (1981) -- neither of which saw a US release until 1990, after many people quit caring about the Oils at all.

See, that's why I miss your music writing Lee.

Remember when that Screaming Blue Messiahs dude was around and it seemed like bald people were about to seize control?

I've never been a fan of them much, but the Guitarist (called 'Bones'), is a family friend of a friend of mine, so I got back stage passes to what turned out to be their last show at The Forum in Melbourne late last year.

Garret gave a big speech at the Feb 14 Anti-War Rally in Melb (200,000), one day before the Feb 15 rallies the world over. So yeeea...

yeah i think this album is the best set of tunes, and heavy only in a very artful way -- the production emphasises the subtle and non-repetetive elements -- i still love it though i know it completley (and the only song that sucks would be called "US Forces")

ok they dumbed down later for all their big arena hits (and when i saw them live there was just one good song guitar solo etc. in the whole show, in the encore, v. dissapointing) but they'd changed for u2 type demographic by then

CLASSIC!!! I mean, who else dances like Peter Garrett! haha

The Oil's 1979-1985 albums are absolute cult classics down here in OZ. Some of the songs on 'Red Sails...' are like nothing I've ever heard before, like 'When the Generals Talk' and that huge explosion of beautiful sound at the end of 'Kosciuscko'! Brilliant! My favourite Aussie band, bloody legends.

http://www.alp.org.au/people/nsw/garrett_peter.php

(they did seem to think that the story was funny, so bully for them for having a sense of humor.)

10,9,8... = OK Computer
Red Sails = Kid A

fucking classic, until the bottom fell out with that tired-ass-sounding blue sky mining.

That's great.

Similar to Colin Hay's story about someone requesting the "one about the goats".

My favourite track is "no time for games" from the Bird Noises EP.

I think the political stuff and the rock gelled well for them.

The drummer (Rob Hirst?) is phenomenal too, one particular huge solo on Power in the Passion.

I'd have liked Blue Sky Mining to have been recorded with less gloss, but a lot of the songs on there are good and therefore a keeper. The only studio album of theirs I don't care if I ever hear again is Redneck Wonderland... it had no ambition, no direction, no anything. Capricornia was a commendable swan song, though.

"Stars Of Warburton" sounded really nice today. BSM has aged a little better these days (and D&D probably hasn't)

Dud. I threw on Diesel And Dust the other day and it was basically mediocre "college rock" with some guy obnoxiously yelling vague platitudes or suggesting we give the land back to the aborigines. "Sometimes" worked the best as far as the vague platitudes go. I need to listen to my copies of Blue Sky Mining and Earth Sun And Moon to see if they've aged just as horribly. And every time I see them on VH1 Classic they scare me even more.
I'm glad Garrett's decided to stop talking the talk but keeping walking the walk. Though I don't want to see him do that funny walk ever again.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, March 17, 2003 5:12 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark

this is perhaps Miccio's most perceptive post ever.

I'd disagree. D&D really sort of embraces its own timeframe without becoming a victim of it. On the other hand, I hear BSM and all I hear (aside from a few good songs) is 19901990199019901990!

What else do I need to listen to? And I don't have a really good handle as to where they were coming from…they were too old to be inspired by punk…

Saints first single came out over a year before the Oils recorded their first album tbf, but they probably got loud and fast mainly through a) being young and b) trying to grab the attention of drinkers.

10 to 1 is their second-best and second-most interesting album; as everyone else says, Red Sails is the best and most. After that, the Species Deceases EP is the same type of super-tight songwriting and incredibly clean production, but solely on fast rock songs.

(Weirdly for this switch to a more straight-ahead record, it was produced with François Kevorkian - Nick Launay did the previous two albums.)

Rob Hirst a near peerless percussionist

NB to vm: they're one of those bands where everyone writes at least a bit, sometimes with other members, but Hirst is one of the two main songwriters (vying with the lead guitarist; Garrett is in a distant third, sometimes contributing to the others' songs).

OK, then: so if Garrett ia distant third in the band as a songwriter, is he the leftist of the band, and the rest of the guys are kinda "we're okay that shit, but he's the one that goes to the mat"; like one of the times I interviewed Tom Morello, I asked him "you and Zach have these beliefs, and they are the raison detre of the band; do the mopes in yr rhythm section care about leftist principles?" He answered noncommitaly that they did, but he clearly didn't like the question and wanted to move onto something else…

I don't heard what the antecedents would be… the Who?

I'm with the consensus on 10, 9, 8 ... and Red Sails, both terrific and unpredictable records. I like Diesel and Dust and Blue Sky Mining fine, but those earlier two are the ones I listen to when I want to hear them. (Which is not that often, but I'm always happy when I do.) I have never gone back to the pre-10,9,8 albums.

Plenty of leftist lyrics in Hirst's not-Garrett-cowritten songs, and he even sings lead on When The Generals Talk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNL3xhxGpK8

I felt that after 10-1 and Red Sails, they kind of fell off a cliff

SPE. CIES. DE. CEA. SES.

(Diesel & Dust totally goes, but Blue Sky Mining was "what if Diesel & Dust but boring?" so tainted it retroactively.)

I know, I keep forgetting about Species Deceases. Also Bird Noises.

I never gave this band a good listen until now. I don't even think I listened to any Australian bands the last time I checked them out, and that feels relevant given how topical their best music can be. For example, one of my favorite Paul Kelly songs, "From Little Things Big Things Grow," doubles as a history lesson on the Gurindji strike - an extraordinary story that became my gateway into the history of Aboriginal Australians. It won't change whether or not you like Midnight Oil, but I'm sure some of their songs won't feel as sharp if the context is completely lost.

Anyway, I just went through 10,9,8,7... and Diesel and Dust. 10,9,8,7... isn't bad but it didn't really do anything for me musically speaking. However I liked Diesel and Dust quite a bit, including "Beds Are Burning" (which I never hear played anywhere, even though it's supposed to be the "hit"). It's stunning how much of the album deals with Aboriginal land rights, and it does so without feeling limited or monotonous - just the opposite.

Both albums sound very different though, and there's something about the latter that feels like it's more accessible to anyone with a taste for mainstream American rock while the former sounds a bit more daring - I'd normally favor that, but on a basic level the songwriting on Diesel and Dust feels more engaging.

Looks like I gave my opinion on this thread back in '03 and it still holds. If anything, I enjoy Diesel and Dust more now (not a track I don't like). The next two albums are weaker versions of it with some moments that work. I've had 18 years to listen to their pre-Diesel albums and still haven't done it - time to remedy that!

Yeah, I think "Diesel and Dust" is start-to-finish great, and definitely more accessible. Aside from the singing it's even sometimes hard to believe it's the same band, and in that regard it reminds me of (in concept) "Laid" by James, a concerted but successful decision to strip things down and back and focus even more strictly on songs. The previous Midnight Oil albums are so full of ideas, not least because the prog-like approach and context didn't force them to discard any of them. Usually for the best, since those albums are rad, but I think there was no good next step further in that direction. Downshifting was inevitable, and D&D was a great example of a band doing so at its peak, not when it ran out of ideas or steam or suffered some setback or failure.

FWIW, I like "Earth and Sun and Moon" better than "Blue Sky Mining." The latter is so sterile and over-considered, the former is a bit looser and more organically band-in-a-room. Both albums have some great songs on it, but "Earth" delivers them better, imo.

I also prefer the more organic sound of E&S&M to the one on BSM, but I don't recall liking one album much more than the other. it's been years since I listened to either though

I haven't listened to Blue Sky Mining in ages, either. I remember liking it well enough, and I do like the title track (the only thing that sticks in my head at the moment). But all the dismissals of it itt make me wonder how it would hold up if I listen again. My sense of liking it is also related to having seen them play on the BSM tour, and they were really good.

I really liked Midnight Oil in like 7th-9th gr. I had Diesel & Dust + bought Blue Sky Mining the day it came out! I loved everything about both of those albums and revisited both recently. I hadn't listened to either in aaaaaages and it was a fun time capsule. My memories of being a little righteous crusader all came back. I never really got into the band beyond those albums.

This thread title always literally makes me lol bc I picture someone posting simply "G'dud"and that's funny.

I can't remember now if I became aware of them circa Diesel & Dust or if I had Red Sails in the Sunset first, but I definitely liked Red Sails more.

i definitely only became aware once they had a big single. they probably became uncool because kids like me liked them lol

A friend of mine grew up in Perth and told me that Midnight Oil was so huge in Australia in the '80s that you could literally stop a random person on the street and sing, "US forces give the nod" and they'd immediately respond, "it's a setback for your country." I have no idea how true that is, but I've always wanted to go to Australia to test it out and/or make a fool of myself.

Playing Diesel & Dust, I'd forgotten that I bought a bullroarer because of this album. Will have to search that out, if I still have it.

they were really smart to go pop because I've been listening to their cool early stuff and they were a mediocre post punk band

XXP: That's probably not too far off the mark, Tarfumes. I'd not be surprised if tracks from the first half of the 80s ("Armistice Day", "US Forces", "Short Memory", "When the Generals Talk", "Power and the Passion", etc) are *still* prominent rock radio fixtures in Aus. Possibly more so than later stuff?!? They certainly were when I was last force-fed daytime commercial radio in the workplace.

growing up in Oz, the Oils were pretty ubiquitous. it wasnt really a question of liking them or not, everyone sort of accepted them as decent? some ppl prob found them annoying maybe idk.

the question was more if you were INTO them.
i know in high school the ppl who were super into the Oils were mostly dorky farm boys

i don’t think i fully got their impact until i was at university and the relevance of their message became much more clear - but i still dont know if i fully appreciated them musically etc wholly until my 20’s

when a band is THAT ubiquitous it takes a long time to critically assess them on their own merits imo

How popular were Paul Kelly and the Go-Betweens back in the day? In the U.S. they remain more or less critical favorites with a small but devoted cult following. I always wondered if they did that well in Australia - it wouldn't seem logical for a local artist struggling for a hit in Australia to get major label distribution in America, but I could be wrong.

Paul Kelly had the same ubiquity — was very well known & most everbody knew his music just from radio etc

again - the question was *how* into his music you were, not whether you were into him at all

GoBetweens for me was a bit different - i knew Cattle and Cane but not much else until i started hanging out w cool ppl at university
they didnt the same kind of broad radio play where i grew up (country town, limited to commercial radio for a long time until the broadcast strenth of indie radio improved in early-mid 90’s

and to guard against sicbot corrections
talking abt personal experience in rural victoria, i am not speaking for country as a whole

when a band is THAT ubiquitous it takes a long time to critically assess them on their own merits imo

That all sounds like growing up with the ubiquity of Springsteen in the US in the ‘80s. At a certain point — years, or maybe decades later — those who generally accepted him, but weren’t necessarily fans, stopped and said, “wait, WHY is he so beloved? I should look into that.” And I think the Spin piece in 1985 called the Oils the Australian equivalent of Springsteen.

The Midnight Oil 1984 documentary was tremendously illuminating in terms of their politics/convictions. But that’s where the Springsteen comparison falls apart: Reagan mentioning Bruce in an ‘84 campaign speech was strange: a president is using a rock star to woo voters?! The idea of Springsteen running for office, as Garrett did, at any level would’ve been utterly bizarre and unthinkable.

yeah Springsteen comparison re Oils’ ubiquity in Australia is a really good example.

i think with Garret at some point we all just assumed he’d run for political office eventually, it was mors just a question of when lol

*more

if we can just play "ask vg how popular bands were in australia", how about Little River Band

VERY

i think with Garret at some point we all just assumed he’d run for political office eventually, it was mors just a question of when lol

*beep boop* he ran for office in 1984!

I suspect quite a few people are over Garrett now, post-actual-parliamentary career. But the description of '80s ubiquity seems very OTM.

Paul Kelly was perhaps wise to avoid public office. I've seen no evidence of anyone actively disliking him, ever. It feels like each Xmas every male in Aus confesses to getting misty-eyed over "How to Make Gravy", at the very least. LOL.

I know I had to actively seek out Go-Betweens stuff beyond "C&C"/"Spring Rain"/"Streets of Your Town" in the hiatus period. They were certainly indie-famous, but far as I can tell only "Streets" crossed over to commercial radio, when it was too late. They are possibly more appreciated now.

xp re Garrett running for office:

then he quit the party six months later because it had been infiltrated by socialists

then twenty years later he joined the center-center-left party on the invitation of a leader who is now a right-wing nutjob conspiracy broadcaster, got elected, and was forced by the party to publicly renounce his opposition to US spy bases and missile sites on Australian land, publicly declare that he would vote in favour of new nuclear facilities if ordered to (and later became the minister with responsibility for, and approved, the expansion of a uranium mine), campaign in another state by lying that the Greens were in allegiance with the right-wing government, and eventually got sacked and thrown under the bus when a bunch of tradies died installing roof insulation under a gov't scheme that was being rorted by private contractors.

Correction: Labor leader who was one handshake away from being prime minister is now NSW state leader of One Nation, sitting in the state's upper house.

As someone else who grew up in not-Melbourne Victoria, vg's recollections ring true.

less of a correction, more of an addition. it's been a whole 3 hours since he posted video of himself talking to Bolta on Sky News:

IDENTITY POLITICS USED BY ELITES TO KEEP THE REST OF US IN CHECK

The claims of victimisation by the Duke and Duchess of Sussex highlight the fraudulent nature of identity politics. By dividing us on race and gender, the “woke” elites divert attention away from their own privilege!

I missed that Latham was actually elected in that capacity! Ewwww NSW!

(xp) Fair enough. I thought that he's an interviewee rather than an interviewer on Sky these days (not watching video to confirm). The difference is negligible, admittedly.

I owned Scream in Blue at one time, and recall that it was a good 'un.

Don’t forget the role Daniel Johns from Silverchair played in Garrett’s downfall

VG: what is the biggest Aussie band in Australia?

AC/DC vs. INXS

oh also is Nick Cave extra big there or just regular high end of indie popularity like here?

also I forgot Divinyls were from Australia!

AC/DC vs. INXS

The Bee Gees formed in Australia, if you want a three-way battle.

Cold Chisel and Powderfinger are secretly the most popular Aus acts within Australia. (A lie, probably, but it would be amusing if the statistically correct answer was something that never really traveled well.)

Cave albums routinely go comfortably top #10 in Aus nowadays, so he's pretty popular. Close to a household name, I'd say. Though my mother, for instance, can only name the Kylie duet. (I inadvertently tested this recently!)

Mum only pays attention to Cave to tease me about how old he’s getting lol

Rural wise i think AC/DC is def more broadly popular, and across most ages over 40’s 50’s etc

INXS maybe more popular w under 40’s idk and prob women? but thats a big maaaaybe bc they kinda fucked themselves w all the stupid shit they did after Hutchence died lol

i dont farkin know tbh

Chisel and Powderfinger def feel like much bigger cultural presences

Don’t forget the role Daniel Johns from Silverchair played in Garrett’s downfall

idk if I knew it to forget. too late if so!

The difference is negligible, admittedly.

yeah this is the thing, whether he's streaming drunk on facebook live on a $100k parliamentary pension, paid less than that (+ parl pens) to host on Sky News, or paid less again (+pp) to guest, it's still his main activity, and legislating isn't.

plus he's how he made himself eligible to that voting bloc (2 out of 42 seats: he ran on stopping immigration, blocking renewable energy, requiring DNA tests for indigenous dole recipients, and banning the burqa; used his maiden speech to argue that ppl shouldn't be fired for telling gays that they are cursed to hell)

According to a Herald Sun article reposted to this forum thread, it's AC/DC over Bee Gees with INXS third, although international impact is considered. Every band mentioned in this revive is in the list.

(xp) Also happy to be reminded of Johns's role!

I grew up in 80s Sydney and all the bands mentioned in this thread were ubiquitous with the exception of the Go-Betweens, who were very niche indie back then and never had a hit, I don't think even Streets of Your Town charted.

it got a bit of TV play at the time, and became one of the two Go-Bes songs guest programmers would pick on rage through the '90s, but only charted in NZ.

(Cattle & Cane ranked at #11 and #27 on the first two Hot 100s, clung on desperately at #96 in the final year when Nirvana and nationalisation broke the poll.)

The Hottest 100 returns have been wretched for at least a quarter of a century