Phish C/D

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Phish: Classic Or Dud?
And why do they get compared to The Spin Doctors???

Paul Rees, Wednesday, 12 February 2003 23:50 (eighteen years ago) link

Because there's this miasma of bands from 1992/93 that all of us want to collectively write out of history any chance possible.

"Aye, 'twere all Nirvana back then."

"But the Spin Doctors and Phish and Rusted Root and Soul Asylum and..."

"Shut up, SHUT UP!"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 23:52 (eighteen years ago) link

the drummer is classic for wearing a dress otherwise they never held my attention

chaki (chaki), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 23:58 (eighteen years ago) link

did he wear a dress B4 Cobain?

Oops (Oops), Wednesday, 12 February 2003 23:59 (eighteen years ago) link


hstencil, Thursday, 13 February 2003 00:00 (eighteen years ago) link

too many absolutely excruciating encounters with their "music" in college for me to ever forgive their existence.

And I hate it when bands/fans try to shore up credibility by doing obvious covers of artists many times cooler and more interesting than them. So sad.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 February 2003 00:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Not just covering a song, but an entire album.

brg30 (brg30), Thursday, 13 February 2003 01:45 (eighteen years ago) link

that's because whenever they get an idea to do something, they figure it'll be even better if they OVERdo it. Hence: their entire career.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 13 February 2003 01:47 (eighteen years ago) link

I'd rather listen to jazz

William R Henderson (Cabin Essence), Thursday, 13 February 2003 02:28 (eighteen years ago) link

PHISH is just plain awesome. Again, like the Dave Matthews Band, these guys can PLAY. Trey Anastasio is a sweet guitarist, and with the likes of Paige on piano, Mike on bass, and Jon on drums, I think they can out-jam any rock band.
A definite CLASSIC, they've been around for almost 20 years, and they're not stopping any time soon, especially with an army of devoted fans to answer to.

naga_pampa (naga_pampa), Thursday, 13 February 2003 02:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Can out-jam any rock band: Something to be proud of?

My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Thursday, 13 February 2003 03:09 (eighteen years ago) link

uuuuuuuhhhhh..... yes

naga_pampa (naga_pampa), Thursday, 13 February 2003 03:26 (eighteen years ago) link

I really, really love their first album; quite like the second; don't mind the third; was quite disappointed by the fourth; and have barely bothered to listen to anything they've come out with since. They were wonderful up until about 1992, and then they lost the thread and became guilty of most everything they're habitually accused of.

Still, that first album alone has earned them a permanent place in my heart; it may well be my favorite album of the 1980s, or damn near.

Phil (phil), Thursday, 13 February 2003 03:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Yay. I would have done a Phish thread, but they don't seem to interest the ILxor populace. They are formely my favorite band (I don't really have one these days and they don't interest me as much since I broadened my tastes), and I've seen a number of their concerts that's in the double-digits and begins with a 2.

I like some of their albums lots. The first four and the live ones are all good, at least in part, the others not so much. The fourth, Hoist, is unfairly maligned by fans, and the third, Rift, is unfairly maligned by almost everyone - among other things, the production is fantastic. But live, of course, is where it's at. Yes, they overdo it, but it's a measure of their generosity and willing to take chances - there's bad there, but the good can be really good. Their tradition of putting on "musical costumes" at Halloween concerts (playing an entire album by another artist) is not a bid for credibility but a chance to try something new and give a present to their fans (who initially chose the album). It's one of their many gimmicks, but it also identifies who they really are at heart - your friend's not-half-bad cover band with the monster guitar player who play parties on halloween and new year's eve, etc. Except they have tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of friends. Especially good concerts can be found from the months of August 1993 (8/14 especially), October-November 1994 (especially 11/16), and December 1995 (especially New Years). The next year or two had some interesting stuff, but they started to get a bit stale.

I'm not awake or thoughtful enough to really get into what's good about them (yes, I'll admit some bad), but some of it includes: big rawk hooks with a sense of humor about themselves, compositional structure without classical pretentions (well, impressionist ones, maybe), bliss with funk (well, boogie, at least). Also, the arena phenomenon and the lights (if you've never seen these, you're verily missing something; I say this as someone who has never had much interest in seeing a Pink Floyd show) and the dancing and the gimmicks.

Of course jazz is better. I don't listen to Phish for jazz (but maybe for 'fusion' - they sure beat Santana). The Dave Matthews Band may be able to "play" (not so sure about that), but it usually chooses not to demonstrate it. Trey can play. Mike and Fish too. Page (nb - no "i") less so, but he's functional. Also, ask me about my unashamed like of the Spin Doctors. Did I mention I'm a lawyer?

Yes, the drummer wore a dress before Cobain.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 13 February 2003 06:58 (eighteen years ago) link

I think Falling James wore a dress before the Phish guy.

Namechecking this Onion story before someone else does.

Chris Barrus (xibalba), Thursday, 13 February 2003 07:18 (eighteen years ago) link

That Onion story = classic. That Phish fans love it is instructive.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 13 February 2003 07:27 (eighteen years ago) link

"I think Falling James wore a dress before the Phish guy."

I think Antennae Jimmy Semens wore a dress before either of them

Stewart Osborne (Stewart Osborne), Thursday, 13 February 2003 09:55 (eighteen years ago) link

I actually saw them once, must've been early '95. They were pretty good; they reminded me of some sort of Mahavishnu/They Might Be Giants fusion. The guitar player was the most annoying member of the band; his tone was totally weeny and he seemed to keep playing the same thing over and over. Dave Matthews Band opened for them. They were better!

Kris (aqueduct), Thursday, 13 February 2003 16:28 (eighteen years ago) link

The fourth, Hoist, is unfairly maligned by fans, and the third, Rift, is unfairly maligned by almost everyone

Wait, you're counting differently than I am:

(1) Junta (2) Lawn Boy (3) A Picture of Nectar (4) Rift (5) Hoist

-- was what I thought the order was?

The production on Rift is exactly what I don't like about it -- it slicks everything up to a glossy sheen I find uncompelling. Also the compositions are mostly forgettable, with a couple exceptions, and the lyrics have become more and more obnoxious. Junta is my favorite in part because the lyrics are so often so basic -- "Boy man god shit", "Let's go out to dinner and see a movie", et al. Phish's lyrics are problematic at best, so when they keep them simple and out of the way, I find they generally sit better with me.

Phil (phil), Thursday, 13 February 2003 20:42 (eighteen years ago) link

Dude, wheres my hackeysack?

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 13 February 2003 20:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Damm, Chris beat me to the Onion article, but I got a CNN article.

Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Thursday, 13 February 2003 20:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Any of you ever listened to STORY OF A GHOST? That's my favorite album of theirs.

naga_pampa (naga_pampa), Friday, 14 February 2003 17:59 (eighteen years ago) link

(putting in shame hat)

I hate to say it, but, well...I really like Phish. Not everything they've done, but a good 80 - 90% is in my "I like" mental-file.

In concert, that's where they shine. I've seen them and the Dead, and I don't think the comparison is fair at all...when Phish "jams", it always feels like it's moving towards something, their jams have momentum, whereas The Dead, jamming, just seemed to be this unbound floatilla just lazing around in a stream of tonal and riffular mediocrity.

The only thing I really dislike about Phish is most of their lyrics; I mean, sure there's an interesting novelness about getting tens of thousands of people singing "David Bowie!" over and over, but compared to some of their lyrics that actually seem to be worth something (such as in "Theme From the Bottom" or "Maze"), it get's SO FRIGGIN ANNOYING.

If you want to listen to a good Phish album, I highly recommend Rift and Billy Breathes above all others; there's something very focused and (for lack of a better word) "deep" about these albums than any of their others.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:14 (eighteen years ago) link

(okay that should have read..."putting ON shame hat")

nickalicious (nickalicious), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:15 (eighteen years ago) link

and they're not stopping any time soon

That's what I was afraid of.

Sean (Sean), Friday, 14 February 2003 18:59 (eighteen years ago) link

this thread is useful only because it outs several ILMers as Phish Phans (which means I will never take them seriously again)

Dave M. (rotten03), Saturday, 15 February 2003 02:37 (eighteen years ago) link

The fourth, Hoist, is unfairly maligned by fans, and the third, Rift, is unfairly maligned by almost everyone

Wait, you're counting differently than I am:

(1) Junta (2) Lawn Boy (3) A Picture of Nectar (4) Rift (5) Hoist

-- was what I thought the order was?

Yes, that's the order. Sometimes I scribble addresses too sloppy when I jot 'em.

Any of you ever listened to STORY OF A GHOST? That's my favorite album of theirs.

I think it's their worst. Gnomic, depressive. A good song or two at best.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Saturday, 15 February 2003 03:18 (eighteen years ago) link

four years pass...

First Tube is probably one of the most hilarious songs ever:

three handclaps, Friday, 21 December 2007 03:04 (thirteen years ago) link

I still kinda like Phish.

I have a Trey double-disc live album in my car.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 21 December 2007 03:15 (thirteen years ago) link

i saw 15 phish shows in high school!

69, Friday, 21 December 2007 03:17 (thirteen years ago) link

kids wont know the meaning of drugs without bands like phish and grateful dead. it's a disaster.

CaptainLorax, Friday, 21 December 2007 04:16 (thirteen years ago) link

and why is that guy so funny looking? you tell me that.

CaptainLorax, Friday, 21 December 2007 04:17 (thirteen years ago) link

Classic. True originals, even if you do hate the "weeny guitar tone" (as mentioned upthread, which is kind of OTM and funny even though I like some of his playing) and the goofy tunes and hippie nonsense.

I have a soft spot for many of their hallmarks (again, not even factoring in the music or the 'scene'): genuine grassroots success; never-the-same-show-twice setlists; a deep back catalog that always gets dipped into; a fondness for weird venues; relentless showmanship.

Savannah Smiles, Friday, 21 December 2007 10:37 (thirteen years ago) link

I pulled the witch from out the ditch and turned to face the furry thugs,
The sheep they smiled with teeth agleam,
The weapons in their hooves revolved I detected a prostatic ream,
I gulped and felt my loins dissolve

Make of that what you will.

kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 21 December 2007 10:51 (thirteen years ago) link

kinda dud, i think, and not just for the all the phishheads. just not my bag, i guess.

though i was way into phish in a period in high school, but not to the extent of a lot my friends (i knew a lot of tape traders/collectors.... i could never understand the point of needing so many damn phish tapes).

i can still kind of enjoy parts of junta though, which is the only phish album i hung onto (when i was 17 i used to have all the major studio releases and a few live albums, including that hampton box set).

Mark Clemente, Friday, 21 December 2007 14:40 (thirteen years ago) link

You know what, I think I hate Phish more than DMB. I mean seriously I'll take Bela Fleck, Widespread Panic and Leftover Salmon over these dorks.

wanko ergo sum, Friday, 21 December 2007 14:44 (thirteen years ago) link

since when does DMB not have some good random tracks, as does phish?

CaptainLorax, Friday, 21 December 2007 22:19 (thirteen years ago) link

Hoos I like the way you represent. I always wanted to be able to get into these guys a little more, because I can really enjoy noodly jam stuff sometimes, but the singing - something about the timbre of dude's voice - always keeps me away.

J0hn D., Friday, 21 December 2007 22:25 (thirteen years ago) link

look at all the nude spocks posting here

gabbneb, Friday, 21 December 2007 22:27 (thirteen years ago) link

one month passes...

gabbneb, Sunday, 27 January 2008 07:36 (thirteen years ago) link

gabbneb, Sunday, 27 January 2008 07:36 (thirteen years ago) link

gabbneb, Sunday, 27 January 2008 07:48 (thirteen years ago) link

:( :( :(

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 27 January 2008 08:08 (thirteen years ago) link

man why you gotta post the youtubes and make me be like "ahhh yeah" and then hit me with that

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 27 January 2008 08:09 (thirteen years ago) link

harshin my steen

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 27 January 2008 08:10 (thirteen years ago) link

one year passes...

So this new one isn't bad, as far as Phish studio albums go. I really like Trey's playing.

Size-zero-brigade-embrace-token-chubby-chops (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 13:05 (eleven years ago) link

nine months pass...

I was just reading about Phish covering Neutral Milk Hotel on Stereogum and, you know, I think it make me love them a little bit more for pissing off a whole bunch of those annoying people that hold up NMH as something holy. Some choice comments:

"No one should be allowed to touch this song. This hurt my ears."

"Keep your jam bands off my favorite album. TAKE BACK THE MUSIC!"

he's always been a bit of an anti-climb Max (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 1 July 2010 15:06 (eleven years ago) link

I've never heard the original, but Phish's version sounded pretty decent.

kkvgz, Thursday, 1 July 2010 15:10 (eleven years ago) link

Won't you STEP into the FREE-ZER

Trip Maker, Thursday, 1 July 2010 15:12 (eleven years ago) link

eight months pass...

Dud, because of scenes like this.

thirdalternative, Wednesday, 23 March 2011 17:10 (ten years ago) link

lmao, j. sam, thank you for telling me to listen to the mike gordon solo record, i was expecting very little and i kind of love it?????????????????

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, 24 July 2021 02:37 (one week ago) link

plasma was so good i added a full trey concert to the list (10/25/02). gonna put it on at some point today

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, 24 July 2021 12:36 (one week ago) link

i'm also listening to the vida blue album and it's lovely. not sure i love page's voice out of phish context strangely enough

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, 24 July 2021 12:38 (one week ago) link

xp haha I'm glad you like Inside In. It's such a fun, unassuming record

J. Sam, Saturday, 24 July 2021 17:03 (one week ago) link

round room: very frustrating album tbh, functionally their st. anger, recording their rehearsals in a blatant attempt to put together an album that was looser, rawer, and more related to who they were live, and... it sure sounds like it, for better and worse. marshall's lyrics are getting, how do you say, too dense. mike gordon should be prevented from writing lyrics for this band, even though both of his songs are very good. "mexican cousin" is a terrible song. "seven below" is a perfect phish song, down to only having one verse. trey sounds like shit. really the whole thing would be improved from being just slightly more produced. then again, not sure "slightly more produced" would allow for the transformative jams that "pebbles and marbles," "walls of the cave," and "waves" all morph into. it's also 80 minutes long. ugh. the millennial a picture of nectar (even though it's better than that record)

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, 24 July 2021 18:05 (one week ago) link

the last three tracks of round room on their own are prob the best studio phish i've heard yet tbh

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, 24 July 2021 18:41 (one week ago) link

unfortunately they are attached to another 50 minutes of album

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, 24 July 2021 18:41 (one week ago) link

the victor disc: overwhelming feeling is i didn't have to listen to this, and i get why they didn't release it. someone needs to edit down these jams into siket disc form, and no one has, and as they are they just kind of sit in place for a while until they're different. sometimes it gets interesting? idk. it's so long

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, 24 July 2021 22:08 (one week ago) link

For a number of reasons my family ended up spending Friday night at a remote cabin with no internet or cell service where the only kid-friendly media was a DVD of "Scooby Doo and the Loch Ness Monster" which we of course ended up watching with my 6 year old and it had this scene:

joygoat, Sunday, 25 July 2021 14:31 (one week ago) link

A couple friends in our group chat were kicking around the idea of rallying for Deer Creek, but nixed the idea when reminded that the tour kicks off this week in three straight states with the some of the lowest vaccination numbers in the country (Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia). Really hoping this doesn't turn into a super spreader tour.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 26 July 2021 17:37 (one week ago) link

Couch tour time.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 26 July 2021 17:37 (one week ago) link

thankful that my show is outdoors but yeah

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 26 July 2021 18:40 (one week ago) link

Yeah I mean, I'm not shaming anyone for hitting an outdoor show, it just makes me nervous for a big tour to start down there.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 26 July 2021 18:41 (one week ago) link

12/31/02: first set: holy stage rust batman. i should be really down with a 15-minute “piper” as an opener but it doesn’t ever really work or go anywhere interesting, and it sort of feels like the band are out-of-sync, to the point where i wouldn’t call it “loose” or “shambolic” as much as “sluggish.” i know the rehearsed a lot before this show but i think it’s evidence that taking a two-year break from what was a pretty nonstop fifteen-year endeavor kinda makes it hard to get the engine going again. and whereas 1.0 was marked by constant development, even as they were running out of gas in 2000, 2.0 starts off sort of recalling ‘97 through thick gauze. it’s funky but it’s also just a little too blurry to focus on. also playing the cast away clip before “wilson” is soo corny and a momentum killer extraordinaire. highlight: the “bowie” is short but good

second set: oh this is more like it. “waves”!!!! it’s so good and the jam lives up to the potential sketched out on round room, and it leads right into a really fun “divided sky”

set three: i think i have a lot of trouble with the new year’s shows, the momentum is always so faltering, probably bc it’s always three sets and the first two are always a little stocked with goofy phish songs (pls correct me if i’m wrong, i’ve only listened to 3.5 new year’s shows). this third set is the closest they get to 1.0 phish at its stride and it’s largely bc they finally achieve focus. “seven below,” “taste,” “walls of the cave,” all pretty awesome jams, “taste” especially finding its way into a fugue that recalls both ‘94 AND ‘97. really incredible. as much as i found this show frustrating it’s sorta like they regained flexibility in a limb over the course of three hours

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Friday, 30 July 2021 15:04 (four days ago) link

Lol all of these goddamn Phish posts lately and not one single comment on the tour opener?

zacata, Friday, 30 July 2021 15:51 (four days ago) link

^sarah huckabee sanders

2/28/03: wow, three months later and it’s like night and day, they’re phish again, surprisingly they’re as tight and as energetic as they’ve ever been, and they hit upon a perfect setlist here. all-time versions of “gin” and “back on the train” in the first set and… it’s difficult to isolate the highlights of the second set because it is all highlight, one huge flow. i criticized the new year’s show for not really giving us a new form of phish, which is probably an unreasonable expectation, but something is happening here, obviously using ‘97 as a jumping off point but working itself into strange ambient blinkings and hisses, cf. the… jams(?) that crown “round room” and “soul shakedown party.” apparently trey was getting sober for the summer tour(? this is information gleaned from youtube comments so idk for sure) and he’s just playing wonderfully. one of my favorite shows, thanks again j. sam

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, 31 July 2021 15:21 (three days ago) link

in other news i watched the IT documentary and thought “i absolutely have to hear the tower jam” which of course led me to decide to just listen to the entire festival, why not, lol

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Saturday, 31 July 2021 15:23 (three days ago) link

Diving deeper into Phish than I ever have (gee, thanks, Brad!) I have come to the not-very-controversial conclusion that I much prefer Phish when they dispense with even the pretense of having actual songs and just jam. That sounds meaner than I mean it to, as I love "Strange Design" and "Farmhouse" and a few others, but overall, I find I'm most amenable to Phish when I see a song on the setlist that is unapologetically a glorified launchpad for a jam, like "Tweezer," because I feel like when these guys improvise inside a "type II" jam, they're peerless among rock / jam bands.

But so many of the songs, ugh. I'm not nearly enough of a fan (yet?) to understand the songwriting division of labor when it comes to the specific tunes, but I think I may just strongly dislike Tom Marshall as a lyricist? Which may not be enough of a barrier to my becoming a phan. Though my aversion to "Stash" may be, as I'm not sure I could ever be a true fan of any band for whom this is like a a top 5 crowd favorite. I think I may even hate "Stash."

Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 1 August 2021 14:51 (two days ago) link

This is just a guess, but I'm pretty sure the lyrical division of labor is 95% Marshall, 5% other.

peace, man, Sunday, 1 August 2021 16:00 (two days ago) link

That makes sense. I like "Strange Design" enough to go read about it because it seemed like such an anomaly (especially lyrically) and sure enough it sounds like it's a Trey / Marshall tune in name only and was written by Trey. He should write more lyrics.

Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 1 August 2021 16:03 (two days ago) link

Though my aversion to "Stash" may be, as I'm not sure I could ever be a true fan of any band for whom this is like a a top 5 crowd favorite. I think I may even hate "Stash."

― Paul Ponzi, Sunday, August 1, 2021 7:51 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

hmmm maybe so maybe not

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Sunday, 1 August 2021 16:58 (two days ago) link

marshall is an uneven lyricist imo. i think the lyrics to like “limb by limb” are awesome. i also love that “sleep” is the exact same concept as “eid ma clack shaw” by bill callahan, tho it obv pales in comparison

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Sunday, 1 August 2021 17:00 (two days ago) link

the nonsense stuff that he wrote for phish at the start sucks though, and yeah the lyrics for “stash” are soooo dumb

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Sunday, 1 August 2021 17:00 (two days ago) link

anyway the deeper you get the less it matters lol

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Sunday, 1 August 2021 17:04 (two days ago) link

I'm definitely starting to relate to that

Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 1 August 2021 17:08 (two days ago) link

other good phish lyrics: birds of a feather, dirt, sand, brian and robert

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Sunday, 1 August 2021 18:09 (two days ago) link

my verdict is that 03 phish were goddamn fucking amazing, at least at this point. “ya mar,” a song i do not like, transformed and transcended

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Sunday, 1 August 2021 20:27 (two days ago) link

attn paul, re: your question about 2.0 upthread, the “waves” from the IT festival is an open-ended ambient jam

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Sunday, 1 August 2021 23:14 (two days ago) link

Yeah, I always thought I'd love the IT era. I recall roommates watching that DVD a lot back in the day and I remember having to concede that the Tower jam was especially sick, even as a Phish neutral person

I don't think I'm Phish neutral anymore, but I'm still choosing to proceed with caution. Like I've limited myself to watching only every third video itt lol

Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 1 August 2021 23:26 (two days ago) link

i relistened to that "waves" jam this morning, still can't believe it

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 2 August 2021 14:39 (yesterday) link

Man, I'm impressed with this recent start. 4 shows in and they've already dropped in 3 massive jams. I haven't heard last night's "Tweezer" yet, but I was a big fan of the "CDT" from the other night and the kinda dark "Carini" from a few nights back. The "CDT" is up on YouTube for free, worth it.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 2 August 2021 14:41 (yesterday) link

i'm excited to check it out, especially since i just got really obsessed with the stretched-out "chalk dust torture" from IT

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 2 August 2021 20:29 (yesterday) link

There is definitely some rust, if you are pressed for time I would just completely skip the first Arkansas show. The rest of had some rough spots, but the guys are clearly engaged in the jam again, which is great to hear.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 2 August 2021 20:32 (yesterday) link

coming toward the end of the IT festival... and getting turned inside out by the 40-minute "46 days".....

i'm so glad the one phish festival i decided to dwell on was IT, at least this little window of time contains a lot of the best phish improv i've ever heard

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 00:46 (seventeen hours ago) link

i think it's useful to compare a jam like this to the car crash-esque 30 min "tweezer" they included on a live one, where they were constantly collapsing into dissonance and struggling to tie anything they were doing together, whereas here they achieve kind of a continuous flow of dissonances

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 00:54 (seventeen hours ago) link

btw, for anyone who ever considered subscribing to livephish+: the app is very good, if a little buggy, however the desktop experience is godawful

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 13:37 (four hours ago) link

first month was only $1 so my complaints are ultimately minimal

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 13:39 (four hours ago) link

IT (documentary plus 8/2/03 and 8/3/03): these aren't the tightest or most perfect phish shows ever, but there's no question in my mind that this is the best music they've played in the span of time i've covered in this project so far; i could just be talking about the tower jam here but the actual sets are dense and overflowing jungles of sound themselves, only hinted at by the clips i've been posting itt, cf. the underwater pulsings of the "waves" jam are enjoined in a narrative between the (dissociated and strange) "discern" that precedes it and the (relatively normal in a "we've decided to land on earth" way) "david bowie" that follows. i have a few qualms—for instance set 3 of 8/2/03 is nearly perfect until they decide to play "spread it 'round," but even then they invert the good hippie vibes in the small jam it leads into, which is like a terrifying photonegative of the song; and set one of 8/3 takes forever to get going, and only wakes up during the massive "chalk dust" jam

but i think i have an idea of what distinguishes '03 phish, if not 2.0 in general, which is that it's the dreamiest they've ever gotten. set two of 8/3 speaks to my point, i think, from "ghost" to "mountains in the mist" to "pebbles and marbles," each of which is like advancing further and further through a fog-shrouded reality. the doc helped reinforce this, as it gives you a sense of the kind of immersive alternate reality they built here, from the temporary structures that constituted the "sunken city" to their decision to play an hour of totally improvised psych rock in a decommissioned airport control tower

i think i might be getting a distorted and overly-rosy impression of 2.0 because i'm only listening to the great stuff? i have considered listening to their "final" '04 shows at coventry bc legend suggests they are not good or fun, but i don't think i really have time for it, as i'm seeing phish in less than two weeks(?????!!!!!) and i'd like to get through as much of 3.0 as i can before then

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:40 (three hours ago) link

btw pls recommend me 3.0 shows, i have no compass for any of it

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:44 (three hours ago) link

Man 3.0 is so hard to recommend, to be honest. It's so wildly all over the place in terms of quality and ideas.

Off the top of my head, I'd def suggest checking out the full Baker's Dozen run from 7/21/17 to 8/6/17. Tons of great jams and interesting covers and tangents. Honestly, the spirit of those shows is the closest I've felt to the more "playful" old Phish (if that makes sense). Lots of other great individual shows. I like the Kasvot Vaxt Halloween show (10/31/18) and the epic "Tweezer" show from 12/30/19. Mostly more recent stuff, I'll have to think on this a little.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:47 (three hours ago) link

lol i was afraid someone was going to recommend me every baker's dozen show

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:55 (three hours ago) link

Haha, sorry. I could probably whittle it down for you, I just found the high points (of which there are many!) to be so spread out. It's not was easy as naming 2 or 3 specific shows.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:58 (three hours ago) link

it's totally cool, i'm actually excited to listen to all of them, it's just... so much lol

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:59 (three hours ago) link

+1 for Baker's Dozen. I'm not actually too familiar with 3.0 generally, but the Baker's Dozen was what got me back into Phish after mostly ignoring them for like a decade. That run of shows is just an incredible achievement in so many ways, and every show I've heard from it is loads of fun with quality jams, 7/25/17 being the clear standout imo

J. Sam, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 16:48 (one hour ago) link

Also 7/14/19 is really great. Set 1 is packed with rare bust-outs, and set 2 has a "Ruby Waves" with one of the best jams I've ever heard

J. Sam, Tuesday, 3 August 2021 16:57 (one hour ago) link

Yeah 7/14/19 is probably a good call, but tbh I just go back to the "Ruby Waves" and haven't heard the full show since right after.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 17:02 (one hour ago) link

this is all very good thanks y'all! i've figured out a few early '10s shows to investigate just from livephish comments, can already tell i'm gonna spend minimal time in '09/'10 from reading the setlists

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 17:24 (forty-five minutes ago) link

Probably safe to avoid those years for sure. 2013 was when I really got back on board, 6/30/12 was my first Phish show in person since 1.0. It wasn't great, but I was shocked to see them covering "Golden Age" at that point. The following year at SPAC was when I really fell back in love with them again.

a superficial sheeb of intelligence (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 3 August 2021 17:27 (forty-two minutes ago) link

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