What's to dislike about Norah Jones?

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Her voice is flawless. Is that it, is that a reason to hate her?

― Famous Athlete, Sunday, 29 December 2002 20:36 (twenty-three years ago)

I'm not really sure why people dislike her either. Something about her being "fake jazz" or something... usually a criticism from people who'd be hard-pressed to explain what would make Jones more "real."

But then I've only heard the one song.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 29 December 2002 20:58 (twenty-three years ago)

Flawless technique in any form just doesn't really matter when push comes to shove in Pop, Rock and Jazz.
Besides that, her choice of material leaves a lot to be desired.

― Venus Glow (1411), Sunday, 29 December 2002 21:14 (twenty-three years ago)

It's better than "no technique," which is my problem with a lot of contemporary pop/rock/jazz acts.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 29 December 2002 21:16 (twenty-three years ago)

Her fanbase.

― Gibby, Sunday, 29 December 2002 21:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Gibby is OTM. My brother likes her = automatic dud.

― Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 29 December 2002 21:19 (twenty-three years ago)

then you dislike her fanbase, not HER...its not like you love bands/artists because their FANS are so great after all

― stevem (blueski), Sunday, 29 December 2002 21:56 (twenty-three years ago)

Norah Jones isn't really objectionable at all. Her songs do little for me, but they're quite pleasant anyway. However it is always tempting to dislike the middlebrow consensus records whether they're good or bad.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 29 December 2002 22:16 (twenty-three years ago)

I saw the two songs she played on SNL last night, and didn't hate either one. Best suited as background music for Starbucks, perhaps, but certainly not awful.

I'd think she was cooler if "Come Away" was an ESG cover.

― mike a (mike a), Sunday, 29 December 2002 23:53 (twenty-three years ago)

I dislike it because in my workplace (a music store) I have been subjected to this album more times than I have listened to any album I own and actually want to listen to, and once through this album was more than enough. She strikes me as striving TOO hard for that honey-and-smoke vocal feel, or whatever it is people call it. I just know I have a biological objection to her music.

― Damian (Damian), Monday, 30 December 2002 09:40 (twenty-three years ago)

JBR is a shining star of reason.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 30 December 2002 14:18 (twenty-three years ago)

Something about her being "fake jazz" or something... usually a criticism from people who'd be hard-pressed to explain what would make Jones more "real."

These people believe the "glossy = inauthentic = BAD" fallacy. I don't like her simply because she's so bland, but let the Starbucks crowd have her.

― j.lu (j.lu), Monday, 30 December 2002 14:44 (twenty-three years ago)

Bland isn't always bad. The Carpenters were bland, and they wrote some of the most beautiful songs of the rock 'n' roll era.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 30 December 2002 14:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I don't dislike NJ, rather I'm indifferent to her work. I was looking forward to hearing the album but it left me completely underwhelmed.

Dan, I've seen you comment v. favorably on the album elsewhere but don't think you said why you liked it so much. Could you explain?

― H (Heruy), Monday, 30 December 2002 14:49 (twenty-three years ago)

But, see, all you folks that hate the music / performer to spite the crowd can actually REMOVE the music / performer from those surroundings and make it your own thing. That's the beauty of them there wax cylinders, see.

I think Ms. Jones' music is quite nice (and not in that backhanded venti chai latte way, either) & well essayed (tho I'm not an expert on where the bar for "jazz standards" actually sits nowadays, and at least 10 of the tracks on the record are written by members of Norah's band, so standard schmandard) (the Hoagy Carmichael song - "The Nearness of You" - is gorgeous).

Then again, I willfully exposed myself to this stuff, having avoided most, if not all, of the overexposure & hype (lucky me) - anything forcefully drilled into one's head can cause violent spillage.

Also - see Dan's comment re: Jody.

― David R. (popshots75`), Monday, 30 December 2002 15:22 (twenty-three years ago)

To be honest, I haven't heard the full album yet. I've been captivated by her voice since I heard it, largely because it seems to be all of the things everyone wishes Macy Gray's voice was (and possibly could be if she'd put down the bong and sing in the higher mezzo range that she can actually support; the fact that your voice is raspy doesn't mean that it is also low, and now that the novelty has worn off, she could do a lot to continue distinguishing herself by going for higher songs, turning herself into the whiskey-blunt soprano). Norah has a weathered and weary tone to her voice which also manages to sound inviting and warm; it's like a lullaby sung to you by that one aunt who's life hasn't been the easiest, yet always has hugs and kisses just for you when she comes over for Sunday dinner.

Maybe she caterwauls like Nikka Costa on all of the other tracks on the album; I don't know. I do know that I've loved what I've heard so far.

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 30 December 2002 15:42 (twenty-three years ago)

I was a little saddened to learn that she didn't write "Don't Know Why" -- "I feel as empty as a drum" is one of my favorite lyrics from this year.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 30 December 2002 15:52 (twenty-three years ago)

Is that a heartbreak song, because she sounds rather indifferent about the whole affair. Still fairly pretty though (the song that is, and Norah too I suppose).

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 30 December 2002 16:21 (twenty-three years ago)

She sounds somewhat sad. Maybe it's not a recent heartbreak... maybe she's wistfully looking back on past events, in which case the distance she's projecting seems appropriate.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Monday, 30 December 2002 16:24 (twenty-three years ago)

She sounds saddest in the bridge, there's a bit of strain in her voice. She stays very comfortably within her range for the rest of the song, maybe that's what gives it the blase feel.

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 30 December 2002 16:33 (twenty-three years ago)

Cause unlike Nytol, Norah doesn't always help you get your zzz's. Sometimes she just makes you cranky and fidgety.

I don't want a lover with a slooow band.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Monday, 30 December 2002 17:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Just wait for the Cowboy Junkies to start doing covers of her. If they could suck almost all the life out of a VU tune, just think of the immense soul-vaccuum thye could do to Norah's big hit.
I suspect the end result would have military applications.

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Monday, 30 December 2002 18:04 (twenty-three years ago)

Cowboy Junkies + Norah Jones = Morton Feldman?

― Amateurist (amateurist), Monday, 30 December 2002 18:04 (twenty-three years ago)

yeah, at one quarter speed.

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Monday, 30 December 2002 18:09 (twenty-three years ago)

her playa-hataz

I was a little saddened to learn that she didn't write "Don't Know Why"

Didn't her guitarist write it? I was impressed that's it's an original at all. Like when bnw insisted to me that Elvis Costello had written Fastball's "Out of My Head," even with me shoving the liner notes under his nose.

― felicity (felicity), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 01:42 (twenty-three years ago)

Fiona Apple's "Paper Bag" = Norah Jones' entire repertoire, five or six times better

― My name is Kenny (My name is Kenny), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 05:02 (twenty-three years ago)

That's not an Elvis Costello song - it's a SQUEEZE song!

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 05:39 (twenty-three years ago)

PS to Jody - Norah wrote "Come Away With Me", and that song's just as gorgeous as "Don't Know Why", PLUS it makes a bit more sense - I still don't get that line re: "house of fun".

The #1 stunna for me re: "I didn't know her band wrote THAT" is "The Painter's Song" - I kept on thinking that was the Hoagy Carmichael track I loved loved loved. Loved, that is.

― David R. (popshots75`), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 05:46 (twenty-three years ago)

Fiona Apple's "Paper Bag" = Norah Jones' entire repertoire, five or six times better

OK, why?

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 19:04 (twenty-three years ago)

I just posted the following on this thread:

I'm seeing a lot of "Well, Norah Jones isn't really jazz" -- which to me isn't a reason not to like her (why can't a jazz fan like pop music with a little jazzy phrasing? Why be a genre-snob all the time?), but it's more helpful if the critic can say exactly what jazz is and why Norah Jones is such a big scam. Also I wonder why it's so important for critics to point out that she isn't jazz -- it seems to say a lot about the critic wanting to protect himself from allegations that HE'S not jazz either.

― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 19:05 (twenty-three years ago)

Norah Jones = singlehandedly keeping Blue Note afloat = CLASSIC.

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 20:37 (twenty-three years ago)

fiona danced around with little kids in the video. that's a plus. Norah Jonezzz just kinda talked about me sweeeeetly very charmingly but then I started to drrriffttt awaayy....so...tired.

I'm with you on the stupidity of the not-jazz argument though. Genre-snobbery is dumbkoff.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 21:08 (twenty-three years ago)

I think Jody, Jordan, and Anthony are OTM. I think Norah Jones might be very important, in her own way, more so than someone like Diana Krall, though I might be talking out my ass on that one. Controversy is good. Sorry to ask a somewhat unrelated question, but does anyone recall what the reaction was when George Benson started making pop music? I seem to remember the guitar magazines in the early eighties thinking it was the worst thing that had ever happened.

― Bryan (Bryan), Tuesday, 31 December 2002 22:59 (twenty-three years ago)

Heard Robert Elms on the radio saying that when she played in London in 2002 she arranged that the bar at the venue would be shut for the duration of her set. Jazz + abstinence = suXor.

As for her music, I find it pretty dull. She pushes all the right 'tasteful' buttons, but somehow doesn't come close to Cassandra Wilson, or Diana Krall at her best.

― bert, Wednesday, 1 January 2003 02:14 (twenty-three years ago)

Is she just a female Harry Connick, then?

― Lord Custos Omega (Lord Custos Omega), Thursday, 2 January 2003 13:39 (twenty-three years ago)

unless she can't act.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 2 January 2003 15:48 (twenty-three years ago)

I think all I've heard is her "The Nearness of You," but I think that's enough on which to base the following...

"My Name Is Kenny" dispatches her sufficiently afaic, but i'll hazard a justification or two.

for one thing, her packaged ingenue-ness

but really, her vocal style. i dislike her in the same way i dislike most Broadway singing today (other than excessive amplification) - too much over-vocalization, applying contemporary (r&b?) style to material that was not written with that in mind (it not having remotely existed yet). it's distasteful. i imagine that her fanbase is made up of people who like the style and say 'oh, this material is old and i am a classier person for listening to it' and people who like the material and don't notice the style and say 'oh, she's an attractive young person and i will be more in tune with the kids if i can say i listen to her'.

no, she is 'not jazz', but one can say that Cassandra Wilson is not jazz either (i'm not sure), and I love her. Diana Krall is probably liked by people for similar reasons, but she at least has respect for her material and has worked out a certain distinctive, if minor, style (tho I find her a bit too cold, and more interesting as a piano player than a singer).

― gabbneb, Sunday, 5 January 2003 08:25 (twenty-three years ago)

oh, and as far as technique goes (what exactly does "her voice is flawless" mean?), i'd rather listen to mariah carey any day.

― gabbneb, Sunday, 5 January 2003 08:31 (twenty-three years ago)

seven months pass...

To you "critics", "she's not jazz", "her voice/music is or isn't this or that"....what the HELL does it matter? She doesn't have a terrible voice, it nice actually, and her music is nice....why does she have to fit into a ceartain genre or compare with other jazz musicians....hey, she won eight grammys and has sold more than 10 million worldwide...so that should say enough. ;) Stupid-os!

― nef, Friday, 15 August 2003 16:51 (twenty-two years ago)

thank you google.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 15 August 2003 18:27 (twenty-two years ago)

i find her voice and music fairly bland. i've heard the album a few times and the aforementioned "underwhelming" description fits perfectly. Plus, it really bothers me that she's probably sold more records than nina simone's entire catalog almost solely due to the Grammys' taking a pot-shot at trying to establish some kind of "credibility" bull shit.

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 15 August 2003 18:32 (twenty-two years ago)

stupid-os!

― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 15 August 2003 18:33 (twenty-two years ago)

maybe she's sold records because people like listening to her music. the grammys came on the heels of her success, it didn't instigate it.

stupid-o's are cheerios laced with ritalin.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 15 August 2003 18:37 (twenty-two years ago)

all i know, is on amazon.com, she was lingering somewhere around 10th place for daily sales pre-grammys. the day after (and many weeks following) she was 1st. i understand that amazon.com isn't an exact microcosm of the music purchasing world, but surely you can understand the reasoning behind my conclusion.

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 15 August 2003 18:41 (twenty-two years ago)

any artist who has massive grammy exposure is going to have a bump in sales! my point was that she wasn't lacking for sales before the grammys so she isn't a grammy-created phenomenon.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 15 August 2003 18:43 (twenty-two years ago)

thus the "almost"

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 15 August 2003 18:49 (twenty-two years ago)

"almost solely due to" /= "thanks in part to"

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 15 August 2003 18:54 (twenty-two years ago)

''maybe she's sold records because people like listening to her music.''

12 CD ppl to thread!

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 15 August 2003 18:57 (twenty-two years ago)

10th to first(which then lasts for months) isnt just a bump in sales. about 5% of the people i know(and talk to about music) had heard of her pre-grammys. suddenly, everyone wanted to check her out, and thus bought her album(most of whom shortly after sold it back or gave it away). here in new orleans, it certainly seemed like the grammy's are what made her.

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 15 August 2003 19:01 (twenty-two years ago)

even granted that, i don't see the point about "credibility." but i don't feel very strongly about her--i like her fine, but no more than that--so i probably shouldn't get into a big argument about this.

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 15 August 2003 19:09 (twenty-two years ago)

the credibility remark wasn't made to disparage Ms. Jones. It was made in reference to my belief that the main reason the Grammys lauded her to such an extent was in an attempt to retain "credibility" in the eyes of the general populace, since she plays piano, isn't just bubblegum pop, and, if i'm not mistaken, writes some of her own material. the fact that the grammys in the past few years have pandered more to hip-hop, pop, and r&b makes them seem less "credible" to many conservative viewers who want to see their favorite rock acts praised more, though i certainly don't share this view. i'm rooting for TATU next year.

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 15 August 2003 19:23 (twenty-two years ago)

how are the grammys voted on? if it's anything like the oscars you can't attribute any awards to any kind of conspiracy as it's usually just the mean of a lot of different groups of people voting....

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 15 August 2003 19:25 (twenty-two years ago)

it's voted on by people in the industry mainly, but i stopped believing that the results weren't tampered with when Christina Aguilera won best new artist. nothing against her, it just didnt seem realistic.

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 15 August 2003 19:31 (twenty-two years ago)

hmmmmm

― amateurist (amateurist), Friday, 15 August 2003 19:33 (twenty-two years ago)

What would've seemed more realistic?

(Other nominees that year: Macy Gray, Kid Rock, Britney Spears, Susan Tedeschi)

― jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 15 August 2003 19:42 (twenty-two years ago)

voters aren't merely presented with nominees, there's an nomination process as well, also voted on by industry insiders. who knows, maybe major label men make up the majority of those qualified to nominate. that certainly would explain a lot, but i dont think it's the case.

― Felcher (Felcher), Friday, 15 August 2003 19:46 (twenty-two years ago)

Back before her album came out, before I'd ever heard her name, I got this album by Charlie Hunter—Songs From The Analog Playground, or something like that. Anyway, one of the tracks was a cover of Roxy Music's "More Than This." I listened to it, and thought I was gonna lapse into a coma. It was sung by this breathy chick who sounded like she was as bored as she was making me. I mean, she made Bryan Ferry sound like Lee Ving by comparison. I threw the record across the room in despairing horror.

Not much later, that same boring chick is all over VH-1, walking on the beach and gazing soulfully into the camera while her own insanely boring song drones on.

But there are two pluses:

1. The aforementioned singlehanded salvation of Blue Note.

2. Damn, she's fine.

― Phil Freeman (Phil Freeman), Saturday, 16 August 2003 14:33 (twenty-two years ago)

twenty years pass...

Love this, she's a great keyboard player. I'll have to listen to the podcast she did with Brian Blade for sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi5oJVsEVIo

(there are a surprising amount of Norah Jones threads on old ILM, most of which should not be opened, I'm sure)

― Jordan s/t (Jordan), Tuesday, 10 October 2023 14:31 (two years ago)

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