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Obviously Autobahn through to Computer World(with the exception of radioactivity) are undeniable classics(anyone care to disagree?)
BUT what about the little known and unavailable Kraftwerk 1, Kraftwerk 2 (the ones with the cones on the cover) and Ralf & Florian?
Are they worth downloading(since they can never be found in shops unless bootlegs are available)?
And are the guys from Neu! on them? Someone told me they even feature guitar, violins and drums.
Anyone know if these albums are worth checking out?

Jimmy Smith, Tuesday, 24 December 2002 16:44 (nineteen years ago) link

i'd say they're worth downloading, but don't expect anything like the accesible popness of the post autobahn continuum. they're closer in spirit to krautrock stuff like sand, dom, cluster/kluster, etc. ralf und florian is definitely getting closer to the 'autobahn' sound.

i'm not sure about neu! playing on the early stuff - i'm thinking that they might've done some stuff on the first album, but i'm fairly sure the second is just ralf and florian. there is definitely guitar on kraftwerk 2, though, so maybe i've got that backwards. there are a couple of bootlegs floating around and one of them features the kraftwerk/neu lineup in rough fidelity (including a track from the pre-kraftwerk organisation lineup, which you can actually see on the "krautrock" video tape that's floating around).

your null fame (yournullfame), Tuesday, 24 December 2002 16:59 (nineteen years ago) link

i wasnt expecting it to have the pop majesty of later albums, but is it comparable to very early Can and the 1st tangerine dream album(which is magnificent has guitars,violins & drums also)
Or is it just avant garde subpar nonsense?
I just wondered what people thought of a non-synth kraftwerk.
I guess most people havent heard them. It sounds though it may be worth checking out. Will i find them on soulseek?

Jimmy Smith, Tuesday, 24 December 2002 17:10 (nineteen years ago) link

Some of the stuff on those first albums sounds proto-industrial to me. My favorites are the more accessible "Klingklang" (mostly for its mellow passages) and "Ruckzuck" (but I don't like how they come abruptly crashing out of their groove(s) on that track, as though they don't know what else to do, and need to uglify it all to make it more "experimental" sounding). Nice flute work on both these tracks, plus electronics (or electric keyboard anyway). These tracks are both good none academic minimalist works, somewhat Enoesque. The other stuff I am rarely in the mood for, but if you like, say, Throbbing Gristle, you might like.

(I have good sounding copies of these albums on CD that I bought in a store, not even knowing they were officially unavailable.)

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 24 December 2002 17:29 (nineteen years ago) link

yes, they are worth picking up. but only if you like freer more experimental kraut stuff. way more jammy. hardly any electronics on the first two.

the line up on the first one is ralf hutter, florian schnider, andreas hohmann, and klaus dinger (neu!)

obviously "Ralf and Florian" is just ralf and florian.

JasonD (JasonD), Tuesday, 24 December 2002 17:35 (nineteen years ago) link

"Strom" is kind of nice, too (now playing). Jangular distorted guitar sounds and then some bare melody.

Rockist Scientist, Tuesday, 24 December 2002 17:39 (nineteen years ago) link

I've downloaded most of them online, so yes, they are on SoulSeek. "Ananas Symphonie" is a beautiful, beautiful track. A lot of the others are good, too.

Adam A. (Keiko), Tuesday, 24 December 2002 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

ralf and florian is nice, summery, kind of hawaiian

radioactivity is great, i didnt know people didnt like that one

gareth (gareth), Tuesday, 24 December 2002 19:59 (nineteen years ago) link

who don't like Radioactivity?

Paul (scifisoul), Tuesday, 24 December 2002 20:49 (nineteen years ago) link

they're playing live in australia in january. which will be interesting if nothing else.

as for the early things, there's an awfull lot of flute on them which may sway you one way or another. all of these hippy bands just LOVED a flute. it's rampant on the first Kluster album too.

phil turnbull (philT), Tuesday, 24 December 2002 21:05 (nineteen years ago) link

i wasnt expecting it to have the pop majesty of later albums, but is it comparable to very early Can and the 1st tangerine dream album

not can, but tangerine dream's "electronic meditation" would probably be a fairish comparison, in the freer parts. "ruckzuck" is definitely great - it was actually used as the theme for a pop-science for kids program here in the US ("newton's apple") and has a bouncy little groove. if you like neu! and "electronic meditation," yes, you need to hear the first two kraftwerks.

your null fame (yournullfame), Tuesday, 24 December 2002 22:15 (nineteen years ago) link

flute rocks

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 24 December 2002 22:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Ananas Symphonie is probably my favourite song ever. As far as Neu! involvement, I think there might be some Klaus Dinger drumwork on the first LP - Michael Rother joined after the LP was made.

Damian (Damian), Wednesday, 25 December 2002 00:56 (nineteen years ago) link

What's yr second favorite?

Adam A. (Keiko), Wednesday, 25 December 2002 01:15 (nineteen years ago) link

"Ruckzuck" is one of my favourite songs (well there're about 200 but still) - I really like the groovy flute playing. It's kind of "hard" flute, not floaty. I think Kwerk 1 & 2 are both really strong albums and I like Ralf und Florian less, pretty fond of "Tanzmusik" from that though.

spectra, Wednesday, 25 December 2002 05:49 (nineteen years ago) link

My second favourite might be Joy Division's Atmosphere (just ensuring no confusion with the Russ Abbott one). Ananas Symphonie makes me want to buy a steel guitar.

Damian (Damian), Wednesday, 25 December 2002 09:58 (nineteen years ago) link

It's kind of "hard" flute, not floaty.

Exactly. I'm glad someone else figured out how to say this (although I do like some floaty flute).

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 25 December 2002 14:29 (nineteen years ago) link

two years pass...
I swear there was a thread about the supposed reissues for Kraftwerk (hell if I could find it). Anyway....So about the reissue(s)...Rough Trade is now selling Computer World (REMASTERED) vinyl. Out today in fact. Hope this is the beginning of the reissues (and on cds as well).

van nostrum (Buck Van Smack), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 23:56 (sixteen years ago) link

(how do you make long links short, with just a word or two?)

van nostrum (Buck Van Smack), Tuesday, 26 July 2005 23:59 (sixteen years ago) link


Replace "[" and "]" with ""

This is my most "advanced" html trick.

Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 00:20 (sixteen years ago) link

It's not showing up here- should be replacing the square brackets with angle brackets.

Telephonething (Telephonething), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 01:17 (sixteen years ago) link

Hope this is the beginning of the reissues
On that page you linked, they list 1 & 2 as a double package and Autobahn too, all on coloured vinyl.

willem (willem), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 05:33 (sixteen years ago) link

They are all bootlegs.

harvey.w (harvey.w), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 12:51 (sixteen years ago) link

Kraftwerk have been notorious for announcing stuff that *never* happens - earlier this year, they announced that the first three albums would finally get released on CD - no bonus tracks, but "re-mastered" - how can you re-master something that was mever (CD) mastered to begin with? Anyway, the first 3 are great - my favorite is "Kristallo" from "Ralf & Florian", sounds great when played LOUD.

SoHoLa (SoHoLa), Wednesday, 27 July 2005 12:55 (sixteen years ago) link

you need "tone float" by kraftwerk / organisation - which is kinda like a pre kraftwerk hippy drum circle with wiggy violin, flute & hammond organ - at least as good as kwerk 1 & 2 which are their all time best apart from the original tour de france. get it get it get it - it's the best

bob snoom, Wednesday, 27 July 2005 15:12 (sixteen years ago) link

three years pass...


Matt DC, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 10:56 (thirteen years ago) link

The boy Schnieder done good but he has to hang up his boots sometime

Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Tuesday, 6 January 2009 11:04 (thirteen years ago) link

I've been disappointed by how accessible they've been over the past few years. Maybe this will restore a little mystery.

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 11:05 (thirteen years ago) link

But Florian was the weirdo mystery element in the group

Vicious Cop Kills Gentle Fool (Tom D.), Tuesday, 6 January 2009 11:07 (thirteen years ago) link

And now he's not even in it! It's like SUPER MYSTERIOUS!

Tracer Hand, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 11:16 (thirteen years ago) link

This at the bottom of the BBC page...
Cones hotline
The lasting legacy of John Major's much ridiculed plan

snoball, Tuesday, 6 January 2009 11:36 (thirteen years ago) link

what would Florian do?

Hopefully jam with Michael Rother and Jaki L., but probably not. :(

909090909 Rivethed Brikkchin Reverk now DANZ (Mackro Mackro), Tuesday, 6 January 2009 20:02 (thirteen years ago) link

three months pass...

Every time I play the opening minute or two of "Europe Endless" I'm kinda convinced there's no better start to a song -- an album, ANYTHING -- out there. It's such a perfectly realized and precise arrangement, and *then* the beats arrive.

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 30 April 2009 18:32 (thirteen years ago) link


Europa Endlos should be the anthem of the EU.

Suggesteban Cambiasso (jim), Thursday, 30 April 2009 18:35 (thirteen years ago) link

Every time I play the opening minute or two of "Europe Endless" I'm kinda convinced there's no better start to a song -- an album, ANYTHING -- out there. It's such a perfectly realized and precise arrangement, and *then* the beats arrive.

For me, that moment is the keyboard interlude the third time or so it's repeated. For one, I just love the sound of the saw wave and the little modulation accents Ralf plays. But on that iteration, Ralf knocks it up a register — and it just takes off. Easily my favorite Kraftwerk moment, period.

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 30 April 2009 19:10 (thirteen years ago) link

three months pass...

Folks have probably already seen this, but just in case:

Remasters of Autobahn, Radio-Activity, Trans Europe Express), The Man Machine, Computer World, Techno Pop, The Mix, and Tour De France. Available individually or as a box set, in which case they come in those horrible little "mini LP sleeve" packages people seem to like for some reason.

More Butty In Your Pants (Telephone thing), Tuesday, 11 August 2009 05:03 (twelve years ago) link

On October 5 Kraftwerk will release 12345678: The Catalogue, a CD box set collecting eight of their classic studio albums. Newly remastered versions of the albums will also be available individually on CD, vinyl and download.

The release is via Mute; it marks the 35th anniversary of the band's 1974 hit 'Autobahn' and will come mere weeks after they headline the 2009 edition of Bestival. Kraftwerk are arguably more important than The Beatles in terms of profound influence on the evolution of modern music,
.. etcetc...

Mark G, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 09:20 (twelve years ago) link

- 8 x individual CDs presented in special slipcases featuring newly expanded artwork, including many previously unseen images all of which have been reproduced to the highest technical standards.

- CD Box Set containing 8 x CDs in ‘mini-vinyl’ card wallet packaging, plus individual large format booklets.

- 8 x individual heavyweight vinyl LPs with large format booklets.

- Digital downloads.

Mark G, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 09:21 (twelve years ago) link

Any reason to buy these for those of us who own all the albums on CD already? Sounds like extra packaging but nothing in the way of new/unreleased music... not really into those types of reissues.

I just wish he hadn't adopted the "ilxor" moniker (ilxor), Tuesday, 11 August 2009 13:53 (twelve years ago) link

Remastered sound?

StanM, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 13:57 (twelve years ago) link

Oh my god, I'm listening to the original '83 version of "Tour de France" right now and am FLIPPING OUT

claws of jungle red (Stevie D), Tuesday, 11 August 2009 18:54 (twelve years ago) link

for the first time

claws of jungle red (Stevie D), Tuesday, 11 August 2009 18:54 (twelve years ago) link

Remastered sound?

The remastering will be the selling point for me. The CDs that we've been listening to for the last twenty years leave a lot to be desired.

Vast Halo, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 19:06 (twelve years ago) link

will "Techno Pop" be mythical lost album or just "Electric Cafe" with original title?

Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 11 August 2009 21:20 (twelve years ago) link

wikipedia says it's just electric cafe with the original title

elan, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 21:23 (twelve years ago) link

ralf and florian is nice, summery, kind of hawaiian

-- this explains why i like that lp so much!

amateurist, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 21:36 (twelve years ago) link

Techno Pop was basically a failed album that had the best parts remixed into Electric Cafe. I doubt it will ever seen the light of day and I am not too upset about it. It would be neat to hear out of curiosity, but I doubt they have eight Tour de France style joints sitting in the can waiting to be heard.

That being said, I can only imagine what they have in their archives. I would love to hear the demos for songs that didn't make the cut for their studio albums. They will never be heard while Hutter is alive, but it will be interesting to see how his estate handles the music.

It will also be interesting to see who is credited on the box set. I wonder if Schneider will have his name removed like Bartos and Flur.

your original display name is still visible (Display Name), Tuesday, 11 August 2009 21:47 (twelve years ago) link

.. and Conny Plank...

Mark G, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 22:00 (twelve years ago) link

1983 demo version of 'Techno Pop' is utterly different than album version, almost a 70's retrench with the Orchestron vocal choir playing the chord sequence, I like it better than the album version

& there were three new tunes on the 98 tour than remain unreleased, I can see why but I'd still love a studio version of the one that sounds like their take on Basic Channel

Milton Parker, Tuesday, 11 August 2009 22:07 (twelve years ago) link

word! is that demo vers floating around somewhere reachable?
the live versions I've heard of the "Techno Pop" stuff is pretty great ... hard-hitting, muscular stuff

Fox Force Five Punchline (sexyDancer), Tuesday, 11 August 2009 22:21 (twelve years ago) link

Christ, this is as bad as 2016. RIP, Florian. May flights of vocoders sing thee to thy rest.

The multiplying villainies of nature / Do swarm upon him (Vast Halo), Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:07 (two years ago) link

Much computer love :(

jmm, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:12 (two years ago) link

I got to see them in Milwaukee in 2008 - was strange because they did like 2-3 shows a year then and they just happened to randomly pick Milwaukee. Must've been one of the last shows he ever did.

Was a really cool night...I was 22 and there were a lot of people who looked even younger than me. Like high schoolers in custom made Kraftwerk shirts. Although it was basically the same thing as the Minimum-Maximum DVD, seeing and hearing it in person is something else. Feeling the Autobahn bassline in your chest is a hell of an experience.

frogbs, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:20 (two years ago) link

rip florian x

nxd, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:21 (two years ago) link

rip to the god. is minimum-maximum available to stream anywhere?

sleight return (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:46 (two years ago) link

fuck. RIP.

Fizzles, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:50 (two years ago) link

RIP, the most human of the robots and a killer flautist.
this clip of him having fun with his pocket calculator makes me smile every time.

( X '____' )/ (zappi), Wednesday, 6 May 2020 17:07 (two years ago) link

I've probably watched that Taschenrechner clip two dozen times

Florian 'breaks character' there, it's hilarious

frogbs, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 17:49 (two years ago) link

that was awesome


maffew12, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 18:52 (two years ago) link

Think it was a regular routine to have some fun during Pocket Calculator. Florian did it the only time I saw them (on The Mix tour).

everything, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 19:08 (two years ago) link

Radio 3 playing a little tribute to Florian right now which is v moving

Flaneuring Bevan (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 7 May 2020 06:59 (two years ago) link

Florian and Juan Atkins at the liquor store:

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 7 May 2020 17:48 (two years ago) link

aw man, that's amazing

let me be your friend on the other end! (Karl Malone), Thursday, 7 May 2020 17:49 (two years ago) link

What a great photo

paolo, Thursday, 7 May 2020 17:53 (two years ago) link

Florian looks like he just asked Juan to pull his finger

paolo, Thursday, 7 May 2020 17:53 (two years ago) link

A+, but I really wanna know what they bought there

sleeve, Thursday, 7 May 2020 17:58 (two years ago) link

You vill be pulling ze finger, Herr Atkins?

Angry Question Time Man's Flute Club Band (Tom D.), Thursday, 7 May 2020 17:59 (two years ago) link

A+, but I really wanna know what they bought there

― sleeve, Thursday, May 7, 2020

Lays Kettle Chips + a bottle of white zin

TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 7 May 2020 18:04 (two years ago) link

Feel quite emotional looking at that pic.

Dan Worsley, Thursday, 7 May 2020 18:18 (two years ago) link

behind the mask of the machine...a man

methinks dababy doth bop shit too much (m bison), Thursday, 7 May 2020 20:27 (two years ago) link

Lays Kettle Chips + a bottle of white zin

― TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, May 7, 2020

which flavour???

maffew12, Friday, 8 May 2020 01:24 (two years ago) link

wine flavour duh

an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Friday, 8 May 2020 02:34 (two years ago) link


TikTok to the (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 8 May 2020 02:35 (two years ago) link

Level 1:
In tribute, I am trying to dress up like Kraftwerk circa “The Man-Machine.” Problem is, I forgot how to tie a tie.

Can you help? I never knew.
This is how far she's gotten:

dow, Friday, 8 May 2020 04:08 (two years ago) link


June 8 1998 was one of the most important nights of my life. Kraftwerk played a absolutely breathtaking show at the Palladium (the last tour w synths instead of laptops), after EVERYONE was headed Kontrol Faktory - LA's legendary all industrial club. And when I say everyone...

— Das Bunker (@DASBUNKER) May 6, 2020

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 8 May 2020 21:55 (two years ago) link

Great story. Takes me back to many fantastic nights at Kontrol and Helter Skelter

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Saturday, 9 May 2020 06:44 (two years ago) link

Michael Rother remembers Florian from school days, early studio play, enduring inspiration etc.:

dow, Monday, 11 May 2020 19:17 (two years ago) link

A piece from the archives i just re-read, the predictably on point
Pushing Ahead Of The Dame, talking about Bowie, Berlin, Kraftwerk etc

piscesx, Monday, 11 May 2020 19:28 (two years ago) link

xp It still occasionally amazes me that Michael Rother played in Kraftwerk, Neu! and Harmonia.

doug watson, Monday, 11 May 2020 19:28 (two years ago) link

+ I have his first three solo albums ID3 tagged as Rother / Liebezeit / Plank

been going through the 1990 KW bootlegs. last tour with Karl Bartos, though it's Hilpert playing raw live percussion. lots of extremely different versions of the 90's digital retool of 'Numbers', and 'Autobahn' traffic jams are top. probably the last hurrah for them as an actual live band; the only real reason to go through different nights of any given tour after '91 is for fidelity reasons

Milton Parker, Monday, 11 May 2020 19:42 (two years ago) link

That Pushing Ahead piece reminded me that you can draw a straight line from "V-2 Schneider" to Einstürzende Neubauten's "Kalte Sterne" (they have the same underlying pulse):

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 11 May 2020 20:02 (two years ago) link

my little tribute here:

frogbs, Monday, 11 May 2020 20:12 (two years ago) link

two weeks pass...

speaking of Kraftwerk covers, new for Aboriginal / first nations charities, in homage to both Florian and Weatherall - a 15-minute Neon Lights cover (plus 10-minute remix)) by Jono Ma (from Pnau/Jagwar Ma), Jonti (Danimals/live Avalanches), Stella Mogzawa (Warpaint/the XX/Kurt & Courtney), Ewan Pearson (Ewan Pearson) & pals

massage angry pixels (sic), Saturday, 30 May 2020 09:31 (one year ago) link

Ewan Pearson (Ewan Pearson)

thank you for this, I knew the name sounded familiar...

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 30 May 2020 16:03 (one year ago) link

Ah, you’re partial to his arts

massage angry pixels (sic), Saturday, 30 May 2020 19:28 (one year ago) link


Mark G, Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:33 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

^ That Neon Lights cover is rather lovely and would have sounded excellent at ALFOSes I'm sure.

Picasso visita el planeta de los shitposteros (Noel Emits), Wednesday, 8 July 2020 14:48 (one year ago) link

five months pass...

new kraftwerk dropped lads:

mark s, Monday, 21 December 2020 19:21 (one year ago) link

What's at the link?

huge rant (sic), Monday, 21 December 2020 19:53 (one year ago) link

This is really just a playlist of remixes that were previously released. Nothing new about it.

brotherlovesdub, Monday, 21 December 2020 19:56 (one year ago) link


mark s, Monday, 21 December 2020 20:05 (one year ago) link

karl bartos solo material is just as good except his rock release!

xzanfar, Monday, 21 December 2020 20:37 (one year ago) link

honestly p stoked the Orbital remix is finally on spotify

Warmed Regards, (Stevie D(eux)), Tuesday, 22 December 2020 23:58 (one year ago) link

I was all "Oh Oh.... oh."

Mark G, Friday, 25 December 2020 10:27 (one year ago) link

Never mind, I have enough copies of the Vertigo albums...

Mark G, Friday, 25 December 2020 10:28 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

was thinking it would be funny to do a "Bohemian Rhapsody" style biopic of Jean-Michel Jarre. the only scene I have nailed down is Jarre buying Autobahn and hearing "Kometenmelodie 2" for the first time. his mind instantly rockets through the cosmos, like in the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey. you keep seeing him make the faces from the Vince McMahon gif. he wakes up drenched in sweat, comes downstairs and says "Dad...I don't want to take piano lessons anymore"

frogbs, Saturday, 7 May 2022 03:53 (two weeks ago) link

Would watch!

paolo, Sunday, 8 May 2022 15:23 (two weeks ago) link

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