The Monkees: Classic or Dud?

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According to the search, this vital question has never been asked. I think they were stone genius which probably couldn't have existed without the Beatles but was about five hundred bazillion times more entertaining. How can you deny the genius of tracks like "Pleasant Valley Sunday", "Words", "Last Train To Clarksville", "Randy Scouse Git", "Star Collector", "Girl I Knew Somewhere", "I'm A Believer", "Goin' Down", "For Pete's Sake", "She", "Mary, Mary", "What Am I Doing Hangin' Round", etc etc etc.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 14:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

shit, you even have to ask? CLASSIQUE. until 1970 or so. "sweet young thing" is my personal favorite.

your null fame (yournullfame), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 14:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

"sweet young thing" = drone pop before just about anyone else.

your null fame (yournullfame), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 14:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

Absolute CLASSIC but you'd have to be a pretty strong anti-Beatle to find them more entertaining. Name some Monkee girlfriends!

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 14:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

Headquarters was fantastic .. but "Daily Nightly" is a great song with Moog - I always wished The Fall or Pere Ubu would cover it.

dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 14:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

monkees are grebt.

Chris V. (Chris V), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 14:49 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've been thinking of doing this for ages - in fact ever since we had a discussion about the first use of the Moog in pop. (Can't remember the thread - sinkah might). Can't remember the track - ha! It was either Daily Nightly or Star Collector.

Anyway, back to the question - Classic, of course. My favourites would have to be Headquarters (You Just Might Be The One/Shades Of Grey/For Pete's Sake/Early Morning Blues and Greens), and PAC+J (Salesman, Door Into Summer, Pleasant Valley Sunday, What Am I Doin'..), but I love virtually everything they did.

Favorite Monkee : Micky Dolenz.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 14:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

NO! Mike Nesmith!!! Weren't Daily Nightly/Star Collector on the same recod anyway?

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 14:59 (twenty-one years ago) link

the monkees invented hip hop. search: "zilch" & "mary mary".
the monkees invented punk & boy bands. search: "stepping stone", "daydream believer" & the template for both the sex pistols and the backstreet boys.
the monkees invented music videos. not just because of their TV show, but mike nesmith invented the precursor to MTV anyway, for real.
davy jones forced david jones to invent david bowie.

there's a wicked davy jones can't dance thread on the "i hate everything" board, by the way.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 15:02 (twenty-one years ago) link

for a bubblegum band, the Monkees had a strange aptitude for haunting, yearning sounds, mostly carried on Mickey's beautiful white soul voice. Through the filter of 35 years, a lot of their stuff has developed the same poignant and elegiac feel that the Carpenters are regularly praised for.

"As We Go Along" is so perfect it almost makes me swoon, particularly when coupled with the footage from "Head" of Peter walking into the snow. Even after Nesmith and Tork had left they could still achieve moments like "Ticket on a Ferry Ride", a shivering, crestfallen lament that matches up to anything from the early years. In between was a lot of fun and possibly too many syrupy Jones ballads.

the Monkees are everything!

pulpo, Wednesday, 18 December 2002 15:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

**Weren't Daily Nightly/Star Collector on the same recod anyway?**

yes, but I can't remember which was recorded first.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 16:04 (twenty-one years ago) link

Classic, as long as Mickey, not Davey, is singing lead. Davey sings crap. Best song in the world: "(I'm Not Your) Steppin' Stone"

Nick A. (Nick A.), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 17:57 (twenty-one years ago) link

Classic, I think, though I don't have much desire to hear them most of the time, so maybe not that classic.

Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 18 December 2002 18:00 (twenty-one years ago) link

I'll go with Nick A. Mickey was the shit. Though Davey does have "Daydream Believer" and "Daddy's Song" to his benefit.

Pool it!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 19:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

I want so bad to say "dud", but good God their songs are catchier than herpes in a whorehouse.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 19:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

What's with the Davy-hate? Yeah, he was pandering to the heart-throb set, but he sings lead on "Valleri" (home of the most self-consciously fiddly guitar solo EVAH), "Star Collector", "Daydream Believer", "Look Out! Here Comes Tomorrow", and "A Little Bit Me, A Little Bit You".

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 19:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

wow i like something that dan perry likes! what a strange day this is turning out to be already.

unknown or illegal user (doorag), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 19:41 (twenty-one years ago) link

YAY! The Monkees = ILM's great equalizer! (I'm amazed that there hasn't been an outbreak of Monkee-hate yet.)

Secret fantastic Monkee's song: "Your Auntie Griselda". How many Peter songs are there, anyway?

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 19:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think Anutie Griselda was it, except for Zilch ...

Davy hataz need to listen to "Early Morning Blues and Greens" ..
..My steaming coffe warms my face/ I'm disappointed in the taste ...

..but in general, yeah, I fuckin' hated Davy Jones. Mickey & Mike were the band...

dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 19:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

that song "daily nightly" off the "pisces/aquarius/capricorn/jones" album is psycho-delphic!

doorag, Wednesday, 18 December 2002 21:20 (twenty-one years ago) link

dr c it wz a byrds thread, i think

fritz you forgot: mike nesmith's mum invented tippex

mark s (mark s), Wednesday, 18 December 2002 22:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

You mean Liquid Paper?

The 33 1/3 Revolutions Per Monkee documentary was a trip.

call mr. lee (call mr. lee), Thursday, 19 December 2002 01:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

The records, of course being manufactured pop, are not particularly immune to filler and otherwise bits of bad taste. But for the most part, I'd say classic. And the film "Head", as well as the accompanying ost, is superb.

And if you haven't heard "Zor and Zam" - from "The Birds The Bees & The Monkees" - do so at once. They do a SPOT-ON imitation of "White Rabbit" by Jefferson Airplane, and Dave (I believe it's him singing it) sounds so much like Grace Slick it's scarey. Shivers are sent to my spine just thinking of it.

Adam Bruneau, Thursday, 19 December 2002 02:52 (twenty-one years ago) link

It's Mickey. The albums they controlled didn't have too much crap on them.

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Thursday, 19 December 2002 04:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

My Top 5:

1) What Am I Doing Hangin' Round?
2) Daydream Believer
3) Sometime in the Morning
4) Love Is Only Sleeping
5) Look Out Here Comes Tomorrow

Joe (Joe), Thursday, 19 December 2002 04:46 (twenty-one years ago) link

The live version of CircleSky = none more punk!

Rayas Blancas, Thursday, 19 December 2002 09:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

other peter songs - "for pete's sake", "do I have to do this all over again". both fantastic.

pulpo, Thursday, 19 December 2002 10:08 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Last Train to Clarkesville has been written & we can only live with our own imperfection" - Robert Forster

Classic of course (apart from "Listen to the Band")

bham, Thursday, 19 December 2002 10:54 (twenty-one years ago) link

And how imperfect they were.

Dr. C (Dr. C), Thursday, 19 December 2002 11:25 (twenty-one years ago) link

They're not bad but I never listen to them. Actually they're pretty much the worst group I'd still say was good - they're kind of like the VU in that they invented everything but it still doesn't make their songs all that great.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 19 December 2002 12:18 (twenty-one years ago) link

Which song is it from Head that has the lyrics "You say we're manufactured/To that we all agree"? I remember thinking that was much more brutal that "Public Image".

Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 19 December 2002 13:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

Leave it to a Carter fan to say the Monkees songs are not that great.

Nicole (Nicole), Thursday, 19 December 2002 13:13 (twenty-one years ago) link

The only band I ever listen to on vinyl (mother's old records). One of the all time greats, obviously, why can't all bands be as good as that? Seriously, all manufactured bands should be this good- you get the best band members, best session musicians, best lyricists... and you get something as deific as "Pleasant Valley Sunday". Nowadays... well, we don't.

The TV show was cack, though.

Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Thursday, 19 December 2002 13:17 (twenty-one years ago) link

"Pleasant Valley Sunday" is smarmy.

Tom (Groke), Thursday, 19 December 2002 13:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

"(I'm Not Your) Steeping Stone" is very much overrated, especially in its Proto Punk role- it's just a slightly poppier Garage Rock tune that happened to get covered by The Sex Pistols.

The Monkees are endlessly fun to analyse, but pretty uneven as far as pure listening enjoyment goes fer me. Even the Rhino best of has a few stinkers (I mean, "I Wanna Be Free", wtf?)

Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Thursday, 19 December 2002 17:53 (twenty-one years ago) link

I was in the car with my mother once and the radio had a little interview snippet with them about how "Last Train To Clarksville" was intended as commentary on Vietnam. (They were opposed, I guess.) It was the most political they could be without upsetting the suits. My mother and I listened to the song and tried to figure out how anyone was ever supposed to pick up on that. She said it certainly didn't seem political at the time.

Chris P (Chris P), Thursday, 19 December 2002 23:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Monkees = good music/great tv
what since has dared?

horace mann, Friday, 20 December 2002 04:38 (twenty-one years ago) link

I've been playing "auntie grizelda" a ton lately...such a fine song. the only monkeys songs I have are on my gf's tapes from when she was a youngster.. . I have to get some.

anyhow, definitely classic. I for one like the tv show, though I've only seen the same 4 episodes over and over again. I approve of Head.

nick ring (nick ring), Friday, 20 December 2002 06:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

Best connection ever: Listen to the Monkees' "Sweet Young Thing" and then Loop's "Heaven's End"

Chris Barrus (xibalba), Friday, 20 December 2002 06:35 (twenty-one years ago) link

i must get head at the video store.

di smith (lucylurex), Friday, 20 December 2002 08:34 (twenty-one years ago) link

Whenever I say that they throw me out...

Prude, Friday, 20 December 2002 08:37 (twenty-one years ago) link

Gonzo from crawlspace gave me head once, it was great!

Andrew Thames (Andrew Thames), Friday, 20 December 2002 08:48 (twenty-one years ago) link

one year passes...
Private joke that which prob Di didn't even get

Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 10:31 (nineteen years ago) link

No, she would've actually.

Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 10:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Listening to "Birds Bees Monkees" now, "The Poster" is a pretty funny idea, the Beatles did "Mr Kite" so let's do a song about a circus poster too

Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 10:50 (nineteen years ago) link

A Monkees thread without a single mention of Neil Diamond?

shookout (shookout), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link

classic when rodney bingenheimer sits in with them

ken taylrr (ken taylrr), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 19:58 (nineteen years ago) link

The non-Tork songs from Head are beautiful of course but my aboslute favorite, and I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, is Randy Scouse Git from Headquarters. I've always thought of it as in the vein of,though superior,to most Kinks songs. Dolenz' lead vocals on the track are furious and fun. The song has a neat structure as well, nice old-timey piano intro and outro, contrasted sharply by the punk rock chorus.

theodore fogelsanger, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 21:44 (nineteen years ago) link

three months pass...
(Way after the fact I know, but Theodore I mentioned "Randy Scouse Git" in the question text!)

VengaDan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 13 August 2004 14:39 (nineteen years ago) link

hh my...so you did. well I'm sorry I neglected to notice that but I don't regret going slightly further into the subject of Randy Scouse Git's greatness.

herbert hebert (herbert hebert), Saturday, 14 August 2004 04:04 (nineteen years ago) link

The Monkees: Classic or Dead?

DT, Wednesday, 5 January 2022 03:31 (two years ago) link

This river scene is getting old
I’m hungry, sleepy, wet and cold

(I'm Not Your) Steppin' Razor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 04:51 (two years ago) link

The grass is always greener
Growing on the other side

(I'm Not Your) Steppin' Razor (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 5 January 2022 05:20 (two years ago) link

Just saw that and came to post. Good stuff.

The Door into Summerisle (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 10 January 2022 20:16 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

Yesterday was the birthday of Aquarius, I mean Norman MailerPeter Tork.

Solaris Ocean Blue (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 14 February 2022 14:37 (two years ago) link

And today is the anniversary of the day Chip Douglas arranged "Happy Together" for The Turtles.

Solaris Ocean Blue (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 14 February 2022 18:44 (two years ago) link

As We Go Along is such a beaut. Mickey slays on this. I’m surprised there aren’t more covers of this

OG Bob Sacamano (will), Saturday, 26 February 2022 22:25 (two years ago) link

Take the sound collages out and Head may well be the best EP of all time.

Max Hamburgers (Eric H.), Saturday, 26 February 2022 23:20 (two years ago) link

otm (on the monkees)

class project pat (m bison), Sunday, 27 February 2022 00:29 (two years ago) link

Keep seeing reminders that it's Micky's birthday today.

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 9 March 2022 03:12 (two years ago) link

three weeks pass...

Mickey along with Coco and some others rehearsing "Valleri" in a tiny cruise ship room: https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=499444991737376

Never Mind the ILX, Here's the Blecch Pistols (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 31 March 2022 18:38 (two years ago) link

Aargh. Micky.

Never Mind the ILX, Here's the Blecch Pistols (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 31 March 2022 18:39 (two years ago) link

This footage popped up in the new Linklater:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3iMP0SFIqA

As does a Monkees LP on the <SUNDAZED> label. I really hoped somebody got fired for that blunder.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 4 April 2022 23:59 (two years ago) link

!

Came Here to Roll the Microscope (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 5 April 2022 00:04 (two years ago) link

WIthout clicking, looks like they are singing "Nine TImes Blue."

Came Here to Roll the Microscope (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 5 April 2022 00:04 (two years ago) link

I'm watching Richard Linklater's new rotoscoped film Apollo 10 1/2 - which I'm enjoying a lot - and something unintentionally funny happens about 55 minutes from the end. One of the characters puts on a Monkees record...and the label says "Sundazed," a modern day reissue label, not one that existed in the '60s. So I guess when they shot the movie, the art or props department bought a Sundazed reissue thinking nothing of it, and then the animators rotoscoped that reissue label.

birdistheword, Wednesday, 6 April 2022 03:10 (two years ago) link

Ahhh, I really need to scroll up before I post...C. Grisso/McCain caught it.

birdistheword, Wednesday, 6 April 2022 03:10 (two years ago) link

Even funnier is thst one of the other records one of the sisters handles is the first Souther Hillman Furay Band album, a dollar-bin staple released in the mid-'70s.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 6 April 2022 03:16 (two years ago) link

Furay's Buffalo Springfield buddy Neil sittin' in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvN6LA0dCQs

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 6 April 2022 03:30 (two years ago) link

LOL. Cameron Crowe would never make this mistake!

(But Linklater's a far better filmmaker and the movie's highly entertaining so I'll let it slide.)

birdistheword, Wednesday, 6 April 2022 03:36 (two years ago) link

Ahhh, I really need to scroll up before I post...C. Grisso/McCain caught it.

― birdistheword, Tuesday, April 5, 2022 8:10 PM

I'm glad you did, because now I understand what "the new Linklater" refers to. I also assume that the Cash show episode came after the movie's period, correct?

nickn, Wednesday, 6 April 2022 16:13 (two years ago) link

The core of the film takes place in 1969, so the Cash episode should be correct in terms of the period. (They also make a reference to Tork's departure, with the narrator asking "why is there only three of them?")

It's a really good film, FWIW. On paper, I thought it was going to be Linklater remakes The Wonder Years but that does a huge disservice to what he's done. It's deceptively light, but it really is about pop culture, growing awareness and shared, ephemeral experiences - themes that run through a lot of his best work. It never devolves into self-involved or self-pitying nostalgia.

birdistheword, Wednesday, 6 April 2022 16:27 (two years ago) link

In the YouTube description they say it was filmed in Nashville on May 6th (two days after the Monkees played in Houston, where much of the Linklater film takes place), and aired on July 19th.

The weird thing about the kids wondering why there were only three of them is that the group had already put out its first trio album in February.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 6 April 2022 16:41 (two years ago) link

Although I imagine if one didn't necessarily read the fan mags or go to the concert or buy Instant Replay, one wouldn't know. Isn't it one of the brothers who asks about it?

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 6 April 2022 16:50 (two years ago) link

Yeah, it was one of the brothers who probably didn't follow them that closely. It's very possible they just didn't find out that quickly in an analog world, which is one of the film's charms - I forgot how things were like pre-internet and cell phones.

birdistheword, Wednesday, 6 April 2022 16:59 (two years ago) link

Yeah. It's wild to think about how slowly music news traveled stateside back then. Xgau has mentioned how his columns for Esquire had really long leads (like 3-5 months sometimes) before hitting newsstands.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 6 April 2022 17:09 (two years ago) link

LOL. Cameron Crowe would never make this mistake!

In Almost Famous there's a scene set in 1969 where Joni's Blue appears amongst Tommy and Axis: Bold As Love, among others. On the DVD commentary Crowe acknowledges that Blue came out two years later, but deliberately put it in the scene because he loves Joni Mitchell.

(But the version of the Who's "Sparks" that Lester Bangs yanks off a radio station turntable in 1973 wouldn't come out until 1995.)

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 6 April 2022 17:18 (two years ago) link

Ah k - well at least Blue was intentional and I can see how it was more important to include something like that, especially if it's a record his sister was handing down to her brother.

birdistheword, Wednesday, 6 April 2022 17:35 (two years ago) link

one month passes...
three months pass...

An unexpected development

Huh, Micky Dolenz, the lone surviving member of The Monkees, has lodged a FOIA lawsuit for FBI records related to the band. pic.twitter.com/MAYhKEwAGQ

— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) August 30, 2022

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 30 August 2022 15:06 (one year ago) link

I am having problems getting past George Michael Dolenz Jr

castanuts (DJP), Tuesday, 30 August 2022 15:11 (one year ago) link

Somebody told me
The FBI wants
What the FBI needs

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 30 August 2022 15:27 (one year ago) link

Trying and failing to stop imagining him singing “I Want Your Sex”

The giggles are incapacitating

castanuts (DJP), Tuesday, 30 August 2022 15:29 (one year ago) link

And the wounded skies above
Say it's much, too much, too late
Well, maybe we should all be praying for FOIA

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 30 August 2022 15:29 (one year ago) link

xpost Someone needs to see Head!

'Quiet, isn't it, George Michael Dolenz?'

Blew my mind the first time, for sure.

Beautiful Bean Footage Fetishist (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 30 August 2022 15:47 (one year ago) link

I will file a FOIA lawsuit
Put your documents with mine
Add me to the docket, poppet
Pencil me in any time
I will file a FOIA lawsuit
I am guilty of no crime
I will be restoring my good name
‘Til the end of
Time

castanuts (DJP), Tuesday, 30 August 2022 15:53 (one year ago) link

Daydream Subpoena

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 30 August 2022 17:24 (one year ago) link

I Wanna Be Free (From FBI Scrutiny)

What Are The FBI Doing Hangin' Round?

Buckfast At Tiffany's (Tom D.), Tuesday, 30 August 2022 19:08 (one year ago) link

Listen to the Band (Using Covert Surveillance Devices)

Buckfast At Tiffany's (Tom D.), Tuesday, 30 August 2022 19:10 (one year ago) link

Look Out (Here Comes COINTELPRO)

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 30 August 2022 19:11 (one year ago) link

Habeas Corpus Song

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 30 August 2022 21:41 (one year ago) link

Gonna Bug Me a Dog

Buckfast At Tiffany's (Tom D.), Tuesday, 30 August 2022 22:23 (one year ago) link

lol

Doctor Casino, Tuesday, 30 August 2022 22:29 (one year ago) link

Ladies FBI Society

Last Train to Quantico

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Tuesday, 30 August 2022 23:33 (one year ago) link

"Mary, Mary (Why ya buggin?)"

Hongro Hongro Hippies (Myonga Vön Bontee), Wednesday, 31 August 2022 00:52 (one year ago) link


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