fIREHOSE – Ragin', Full-On/If'n/fROMOHIO vs Screaming Trees – Even If And Especially When/Invisible Lantern/Buzz Factory

Trees by a fair margin

Buzz Factory is my favorite of these albums but fIREHOSE is one of my all time favorite bands. Saw them twice in clubs and they were some of the most fun I ever had. Never saw the Minutemen or the Screaming Trees live.

One of my favorite shows ever was Beastie Boys/fIREHOSE/Basehead at the Troc in Philly c. 1992. Iirc the Beasties came out to do PE's "Sophisticated Bitch" with Watt and crew.

One of my favorite shows ever was fIREHOSE/Blue Oyster Cult at the De Anza Theatre in Riverside. I'd seen fIREHOSE a lot by then, but I didn't want to miss this one. Watt wore his original Secret Treaties t-shirt and was completely amp'ed up to be playing with BOC. The BOC part I wrote about here: Blue Oyster Cult: Classic or Dud?

sick, elvis!

As much as I love the Minutemen, fIREHOSE never really clicked with me beyond ‘Ragin’, Full-On’, which is excellent. At the same time, I love those Trees albums so much. Even If… also has one of my favourite mondegreens: “I walk in Coleraine!”

Is this a fair poll? Well they toured together a lot and they’re both pretty rootsy. I guess?

It was either them or Saccharine Trust (the battle of the ST's on SST) but I changed at the last minute.

Plus I've never really seen much discussion of SST era Trees on here nor that much discussion of fIREHOSE really as its usually all discussion of Double Nickels.

and both had 3 albums each on SST which was good

Did anyone else here get the Screaming Trees - Weird Things Happening LP of the 1986-88 demos?

b/c of this poll I learned that Widespread Panic covered "Sometimes" and it's only slightly better than I thought it would be (i.e. still bad).

Also reminded of the great transition of "Caroms" into "Relatin' Dudes to Jazz".

Ed always had the impossible task of always being compared to D.

If’n was always the lesser of these three for me. Flying’ the Flannel is my favorite by them.

If’n was the first one I heard.

Feel like I'm some kind of SST Loser because thus far in the polls, I've voted Black Flag>Minutemen, Descendents>Husker Du, and now fIREHOSE>Screaming Trees. My REAL controp, though, is fIREHOSE>Minutemen. Unlike my apparently alien animosity towards Husker Du, I've owned Minutemen releases at times and liked them, but they never got the spins that Ragin', Full On or If'N did.

But back to the topic at hand, I do love the Screaming Trees, but find that their records get a little samey. Controp #2, but for me that owes a lot to Lanegan's vocals (R.I.P.). I think Queens of the Stone Age did one of the best things in the world by doling their Lanegan out in small doses, as a treat to be savored. My favorite Screaming Trees release is the one I came in on - the Change Has Come e.p. on SubPop.

Samey? do you mean just the SST albums? They are very different to the major label albums that came later. Less hard rock much more psychedelic & garagey. Plus you can hear huge differences in Lanegan's voice in each album until he finally gets the sound we are all familiar with.

Check out the amount of participants in this monster poll:

Mark Lanegan - The Winding Sheet (1990, Sub Pop Records)

(it's a better record than any thing than anything of the above options)

Of the Trees’ major label albums, the first is the closest to their SST sound, perhaps naturally. It’s also the one I return to most often. Dust is good and impeccably produced and a fitting swan song (the later album demos notwithstanding) but I could never get into Sweet Oblivion beyond “Nearly Lost You” (“Dollar Bill” is a trudge and I don’t know how or why it was a hit).

I love "Sweet Oblivion."

Samey? do you mean just the SST albums? They are very different to the major label albums that came later. Less hard rock much more psychedelic & garagey. Plus you can hear huge differences in Lanegan's voice in each album until he finally gets the sound we are all familiar with.

― Toshirō Nofune (The Seventh ILXorai), Wednesday, October 2, 2024 8:00 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

I've never even been able to make it through the major label albums. I know they have their fans, but they're not for me. And yeah, I know that Lanegan's voice changed throughout his career, but there's still an essence that's quintessentially him that carries through, and to me, as least, it's a strong perfume. Maybe it's more in his melodies than his timbre. I dunno.

Ed Crawford's voice, otoh, is like a family dog. I'm always happy to have it around.

I want to be clear that this is not me saying that I hate the SST trees albums either! I do really like them, but fIREHOSE is my favorite in this face-off.

Sweet Oblivion is my fave album by them. Buzz Factory is as equally good as Dust though different in sound. But they have so many great songs on all their albums.

xps

Saw this posted elsewhere https://i.imgur.com/GxFunMh.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/e6O5NDR.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80abdgjHshs

Buzz Factory is more when Screaming Trees later sound started. I think that is one of the all time wah wah records. I like the major label records but it is my favorite. It was also the first I heard. Their early recordings have a nice Nuggets like sheen on some tracks with the raw production.

how come there were two bands called Screaming Trees in the 80s anyway? cos there was also a UK electronic rock band from Sheffield with the same name - is it a reference to something else or did they both come up with the same phrase independently?

Good point, that used to confuse me when I was second-hand record shopping back then. There was also fIREHOSE/Firehouse of course.

grunge.com tells me:

Screaming Trees drew their name from a vintage '70s-era overdrive and boost guitar pedal called a "Screaming Tree". On a side note, in 1996, Screaming Trees toured with Britpop band Oasis in 1996, and at that time Oasis lead singer Liam Gallagher jokingly called the band "Howling Branches," much to Trees' singer Mark Lanegan's dismay

Oh that wag Liam

oh thanks, had no idea about the pedal:

https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-8avez/images/stencil/original/products/1509/7101/IMG_7708__36867.1637097921.jpg

one button, one switch and one dial (to misquote john lee hooker)

I’d still love to hear the album they recorded in the late ’80s with Donna Dresch that more or less disappeared (even Gary Lee lost his tape of it IIRC).

I think that is one of the all time wah wah records.

Speaking of wah, the late-period fIREHOSE track, Blaze, has amazing wah on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk3BRVxySrg

Got no idea what will win this since there aren't many posts.

fIREHOSE were really popular at the time but tend to be forgotten now compared to Minutemen.

Screaming Trees got more popular after this, but were hardly big.
I don't even know how many who bought the 90s stuff went back to check the SST albums as they were a bit different.

I saw that Firehose/Screaming Trees tour! in Bloomington IN.

an old friend of mine who loved 60's garage & psych was really into the Screaming Trees, with good reason

Who did you enjoy best? xp

Firehose were better live, but I voted Trees b/c I like the records more (and still listen to them)

those brothers were big dudes, they really made an impression in person

and Lanegan was a well built guy then too, not the skinny guy he became once he got addicted to heroin.

Sadly I never got to see them. I dunno why I didn't go to gigs then. I did see Lanegan live once though.

I saw the Trees a couple of times but Lanegan seemed so out of it he was holding onto the mic stand for support. Dunno, maybe that was his signature stage move. Anyway he lacked presence, unlike fIREHOSE who were, indeed, Ragin' Full-On the few times I saw them.

Yeah, I saw fIREHOSE three or four times, as openers and headliners, and were always really good.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

I think the SST anthology was the first I heard the pre major label Trees and its chockful of great songs and yet there's a couple of their best songs not even on it as there's no room. I discovered that when I bought the actual CDs early 90s.

It's a cracking compilation though.

both these bands are the type that sound fantastic while the records are playing, but they don't stick with me afterwards.

fIREHOSE would be good to have a selected playlist made from their records, since comps are not really much of a thing now.

The Trees’ SST comp was my intro to the earlier stuff too. There’s a fIREHOSE comp of their Columbia years that came out a decade ago but none for the SST albums.

I made a short-ish Spotify comp of the SST & Columbia fIREHOSE records, sadly the Live Totem Pole EP is missing or I would have included a track from that too.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0j79hMdn7ZAWDiEz671Akr?si=69c4656517db4b2e

I wish there was some good 80s live recordings of the screaming trees

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

lol

Major label era poll as tie-breaker?

Lanegan solo vs. Watt solo

how come there were two bands called Screaming Trees in the 80s anyway? cos there was also a UK electronic rock band from Sheffield with the same name - is it a reference to something else or did they both come up with the same phrase independently?

I sometimes think I was the UK's Screaming Trees only fan as I have never encountered another one. A Fracture In Time was a super good album though I have a feeling it has probably aged quite badly. Must dig it out.

My teenage best friend be-friended Ed when fIREHOSE supported Sonic Youth on the EVOL tour and we subsequently followed them around when they did their first headlune UK tour. Good times! Had I seen this earlier I'd have voted fIREHOSE and they'd have won this. Bah!

I bought an Indie Top 20 CD from the late 80s in about 1997 which had a Screaming Trees (UK) song on it - at the time I didn't know there was a UK band so I assumed it was the US one. I remember not liking their song and wondering if they had radically changed their sound in the 90s or something (I wasn't super familiar with Screaming Trees (US) then, I'd heard Sweet Oblivion but that was it I think). be interesting to listen to the UK band now when late 80s music sounds less "dated" to me than it did in the mid 90s

fwiw if I'd voted in this I would've voted Screaming Trees, their SST stuff is probably my favourite of their career tbh, so it would still be a tie

ha ha.

I just had a listen to Screaming Trees (UK) again and I don't think it has aged well at all.

My teenage best friend be-friended Ed when fIREHOSE supported Sonic Youth on the EVOL tour and we subsequently followed them around when they did their first headlune UK tour

Aww! Pretty much what Ed did with the Minutemen too. Wonder how he is these days? Think there were reports a couple of years back about him being homeless and living in his car :(

There was a Gofundme set up for Ed. It met it's goal and Ed got some demos up this year
https://www.gofundme.com/f/ed-fromohio-firehose-crawford-needs-our-help
https://edcrawford.bandcamp.com/album/demos

i hadn't heard Ed had hit such hard times. Happy to hear he got some music out though.

Yes thanks ET, great to hear he's getting back on track again! Felt a bit choked up listening to those recordings though, there's like a naked vulnerability about them that's a little heart-rending to me

Any suggestions for the next poll? Doesn't *have* to be on SST .
Or do I just choose someone random?

camper van beethoven vs go-kart mozart

As suggested on the other thread
Sonic Youth - Sonic Youth/Confusion Is Sex/ Sonic-Death Sonic-Youth Live vs Swans - Filth/Cop/Greed

Major label era poll as tie-breaker?

― RIO Speedwagon (Matt #2),

Serious suggestion?

It's either that or Solomon Grundy vs Bootstrappers

Sister Double Happiness vs Big Chief

(I'm serious, but probably only 10 people here care abt those bands)

xp

There's always Mark Lanegan solo vs Mike Watt solo

Big Chief was awesome, they were riff masters.

Flipper vs Circle Jerks

I'd like to do Big Black vs someone at some point but dunno who.

buttholes rphorse/locabtech/hairway?

fIREHOSE for this one, I still haven't heard those earliest Screaming Trees records.

Then its time you should!

Oh I know, I know.... been kind of (stupidly, I know) holding out for some reissues.

Not gonna happen.