Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame Nominees 2023

I'll do the usual two lists.

Subjective, if I only had five: Missy Elliot, Joy Division/New Order, Spinners (can't believe they're not in already), Tribe Called Quest, Warren Zevon.

Objective: all of those, add Willie Nelson for sure, maybe Kate Bush and George Michael. Cyndi Lauper is tough: one hugely important album and not much else.

Cyndi Lauper will be acknowledged for her work forging the worlds of rock and wrestling.

Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.

Once you're off the ballot after having been on, are you off forever? I thought for sure there was momentum for Dionne Warwick. Do they have, like, a Veteran's Committee with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

I will absolutely be voting for:

Iron Maiden
Soundgarden
Warren Zevon

I will consider voting for:

Sheryl Crow
Joy Division + New Order (an absurd concept)
Cyndi Lauper
Rage Against the Machine

I will not vote for any of the others, either because they're not "rock 'n' roll" in even the broadest sense, or I just don't like their music. Not telling which is which.

Kate Bush - yes
Sheryl Crow - no
Missy Elliott - fuck yes
Iron Maiden - MEGA FUCK YES
Joy Division + New Order - absolutely
Cyndi Lauper - yes
George Michael - yes
Willie Nelson - yes
Rage Against The Machine - no
Soundgarden - yes
The Spinners - definitely
A Tribe Called Quest - yes
The White Stripes - no
Warren Zevon - don't know them well but from what i know yes

xps I think you can come back ... Chaka's been in and out over the years, and Femi Kuti sure as hell better get another shot in the future

I vote only for things that aren't technically rock 'n' roll because fuck off

as usual "Burn down the R&RHoF" isn't an option, smh

Subjective, if I only had five: Missy Elliot, Joy Division/New Order, Spinners (can't believe they're not in already), Tribe Called Quest, Warren Zevon

Swap Zevon for Kate Bush and that's my ballot

i think it's been long established that it's really more of an overall music hall of fame at this point rather than strictly genre specific.

and that's fine! i like it that way

Would vote for the Spinners, Missy Elliott, and Tribe. Surprised the Spinners weren't already in.

And I didn't realize "but that's not rock 'n' roll!" was still a thing outside of the Steve Hoffman forums.

Yeah, you can come back to the ballot after dropping off. Chic was nominated in 2003, 2006-09, 2011, and 2013-17.

the five i'd vote for: tribe, joy division/new order, zevon, kate bush, iron maiden

soundgarden and rage are my runners up. feels incredibly dumb that there's a rock and roll hall of fame and iron maiden isn't in there, but what can you do

Do they have, like, a Veteran's Committee with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?

I think the equivalent of this is the Musical Excellence category, which iirc started out as a way to honor sidemen and session players but recently inducted LL Cool J and Judas Priest.

https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/categories/musical-excellence

it's funny how Kate Bush went from being a near impossibility to I think maybe a lock due to Stranger Things

Also Joy Division/New Order should be in separately but I guess somebody was looking for something that would finally do the trick.

― Chris L, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 9:09 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Same deal with the Faces/Small Faces. Two very different bands, but there was no other way each band was getting in separately (especially the Small Faces).

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh… every time the RRhoF ceremony comes and goes, he updates his own ranking of the most to least worthy inductees, and his views are most often asinine and banal: if he was a poster here and presented his views as such in an unvarnished manner, he would be roundly jeered…

but he made an excellent point in the last such update: instead of the disingenous backdoor "early influences" and "excellence in music" booby prizes, the nominating committee should just come out and say "we are the nominating committee, and we are putting these two artists/acts in, and that's it, no voting, they're going in." The electorate —older bizzers, former alt paper lifers and other over 50s who truly care about voting and jealously guard their ability to do so— are never going to give the committee the results they (or most ILMniks, for that matter) want… doing so would not violate any principle or any such thing…

I'm also told by someone who should know that the journo/bizzers on the nominating committee, particularly the older people in their 60s/70s , are intimidated by Morello, Grohl and Questlove, like "geez, these guys are real musicians, and we're nerds who've created nothing or suits who've created nothing good, we should do what they say"; which is why Morello can push Priest in through the back door, and will surely try to do the same with Maiden…

Maiden has put in the work.

yeah there's zero rationale for metallica being in the hall and not maiden

lol I was going to say, there are over 100 million reasons. But while a quick google didn't come up with anything definitive, Maiden is surprisingly competitive on the record sale front!

Maiden should be in for several reasons:

• one of the best live bands on the planet
• one of the most instantly recognizable mascots
• Bruce Dickinson's scream on "The Number of the Beast"

i mean the whole thing is dumb but the fact that blue oyster cult will never make it really infuriates me.

Maiden, Kate and JD/NO are my immediate three locks; Missy and Tribe are my likely remainder. That said I really do want George in there.

Blame Will Ferrell tbh

yeah that's part of it :/

I think Willie Nelson's got a lane pretty wide open to get in here

Willie Nelson - I'm surprised he isn't already in

I pretty much assume he's in in a walk similar to Dolly last year. And if Maiden gets in as is right I want them to duet on "On the Road Again."

If Willie Nelson does not get in I will lose all respect for this storied institution.

Did you guys watch Dolly’s “rock ‘n’ roll” song at the end of last year’s ceremony?

I think the Joy Division/New Order grouping is okay--for the reason Tarfumes gave, and also because it's an American institution, and Joy Division didn't have the impact there that they did in Britain, so it's a way to acknowledge them, even though it's probably more of a New Order nomination. I've said many times in these threads that a British HOF, with Slade and the Jam and the Pet Shop Boys, etc., would be really interesting.

I think the Stranger Things/"Running Up That Hill" thing will help Kate Bush. So: Cramps 2024!

Maiden deserves their own hall of fame, they transcend this institution.

I think the Stranger Things/"Running Up That Hill" thing will help Kate Bush.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 11:45 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

don't really get this. even if she doesn't get in this time, the hoopla has undoubtedly helped her establish her bonafides as an artist that carries serious cultural and commercial weight, especially in the u.s.

So you also think it will help her? I'm confused.

no idea how they'll fit the entire Maiden experience into whatever dusty corner of the Hall they shove them into. for one of the defining acts of the genre to be on the waiting list, ugh....foo fighters being enshrined before them is like collective soul getting in while led zep remains locked out.

if i had five: kate bush, iron maiden, joy division/new order, willie, tribe

i'm assuming of course the reality is it'll be sheryl crow, cyndi lauper, rage, soundgarden, white stripes

So you also think it will help her? I'm confused.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 11:53 AM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes it will definitely help her, even if it means she gets in another time, not this year

i'm pro-soundgarden, tbh

also realizing i misread your post and thought you said it wouldn't help her lol xp to clemenza

from what I can know about him based on his work, writing style etc etc, I dislike Bill Wyman. He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK, don't seem to understand anything beyond that, and when they try to present an understanding of hip-hop or pop music or anything else, appear very "HELLO FELLOW KIDS" and seem to be unduly influenced by Dave marsh…

I used to read Wyma in the late '80s/early '90s, but his schtick was mostly propping up a kind of phony "authenticity" -- he absolutely trashed Truth Or Dare (and Madonna in general) for the film's supposed lack of "honesty," and there was some not-exactly-subtle misogyny in said trashing (I never got a Marsh vibe from Wyman in the least, and Marsh loved Truth Or Dare). Wyman is indeed hapless outside of (and often inside) his little box of "rock." On one episode of Sound Opinions he went on about how "free jazz" is "when you do what you want and you don't listen to the other musicians." To their credit, the co-hosts tried to correct him and rein him in, but Wyman kept digging. (See also his bizarre contention that "Rock Lobster" was not influenced by Yoko Ono, despite the B-52s explicitly and frequently stating otherwise.)

I think we can all (mostly) agree that all nominees deserve to be in some manner of hall of fame, but when I think about the R&RHOF it seems like the whole point is the ceremony, which implies the live performance, and a "classy" opportunity/excuse for certain people/combinations of people to perform one more time/pay tribute to people that have passed that are responsible for celebrated music...

And in that spirit I would be excited about maybe Kate Bush agreeing to sing on television once more, or Meg White playing the drums one more time, or Soundgarden with guest singers ala the Nirvana induction which I thought was excellent, or a similar kinda thing with George Michael, but y'know give all these people their flowers imo

Just want to point out that Link Wray is still not in. Not under "musical excellence," not an "early influence," nothing.

He is one of those chicago area rockist he —or maybe neo-rockist— dudes like Dero and Greg Kot who like ROCK

Beside the point of your post, but this is a little unfair to Kot. He's perhaps typical of critics of his generation in his affection for rock music and assuming its place in the center of the critical discourse, but he doesn't venerate the values of RAWK the way DeRo does, and his tastes are considerably more eclectic; he routinely champions other genres.

when Cornell passed I listened to a ton of Soundgarden and that band was incredible, I hadn't really listened to them closely, but what a group of musicians.

xp (Like, the Charlotte Adigery album was in his top 5 last year.)

Soundgarden was so fuckin good, i spent a fair amount of time during the pandemic listening to them while holed up and they're better than anyone remembers, just a deep rich sound and with one of the great singers in rock music.

some of the rock bands that have made it in during their period of eligibility are embarrassing to think about in comparison.

I think I posted this somewhere else, and it might be behind a paywall, but Marcus and Jon Landau talking about the HOF:

https://greilmarcus.substack.com/p/back-and-forth-with-jon-landau-on

(If it is behind a paywall, Landau has Link Wray on his list of 19 artists he thinks should be in. And he talks about the whole definition of "rock and roll" thing--Landau used to chair the nominating committee.)

Since you only get one vote here, I went with the Spinners. Not that they're necessarily the most obvious pick from that list, but they're the one that most should have been in long ago.

Among many reasons they won't ever get in, The Guess Who would be dangerous for Burton Cummings' tendency to insult his other band members when receiving awards, which got him cut off at the Juno Awards.

Similarly, when Quincy Jones inducted Nesuhi Ertegun in 1991 his speech was mostly about his own achievements, and he said little about Ertegun. Before the speech, it was assumed that Jones would get in the next year, or the year after…but because his self-serving speech ruffled some feathers, he didn’t actually make it in until 2013.

Seeing as Three Dog Night and the Guess Who won't ever get in on their own, I think they should go in together like Joy Division/New Order. This should be an option for meteoric Top-40 behemoths who aren't taken seriously artistically.

But but but they didn't induct Poco/the Eagles/James Gang together with Linda Rondstadt. Nor did they lump the Yardbirds in with Cream/Blind Faith/Eric Clapton.

For the second time today, I'm not sure if we're just circling around trying to out-deadpan each other...I don't actually think the Guess Who and Three Dog Night should go in together.

Nor did they lump the Yardbirds in with Cream/Blind Faith/Eric Clapton.

― forbidden fruit salad (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, February 3, 2023 12:38 PM (nineteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

in fairness, clapton was the third best yardbirds guitarist

Will New Order perform with Hook at the "Ceremony"?

I’m thinking they’re more likely to perform with Ian Curtis

After their nomination was announced, Hook said an induction could serve as "an olive branch" - i.e. he'd be willing to play with New Order and make amends. (At least for one night.)

in fairness, clapton was the third best yardbirds guitarist

LMAO. Funny how he was replaced with much better guitarists after leaving the Yardbirds and the Bluesbreakers.

Surprised to see Alice In Chains not in yet, but I guess they’ll eventually get to inducing all of the four big grunge bands. Can’t see Stone Temple Pilots, Bush, Tad, The Melvins, Mudhoney, Silverchair, L7, Nickelback, Hole, Dinosaur Jr, etc getting over the bar but then again, nothing surprises me at this point.

Can't wait to hear the arguments for Creed once they're nominated. "They're MAJOR artists - among rock bands, only Linkin Park and the Beatles sold more records in the '90s. Creed IS rock n' roll!"

Which inducted band would have caused most incredulity if you went back in time to the year of their debut and told rock fans "this act will one day be in the Rock Hall of Fame"? Depeche Mode?

Mellencamp, or I should say Johnny Cougar since it would be the debut: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chestnut_Street_Incident

Sheryl Crow rocks. I love that story about her crashing the closed audition and landing a gig as MJ's backing vocalist. Hollywood baybee!!

Every time I hear Sheryl Crow’s voice I think, “What’s this an ad for?” Turns out she indeed started out as a professional jingle singer. No idea why she chose to retain that approach to singing throughout her career. I do like “If It Makes You Happy,” though.

It's Willie, but I'm voting for Sheryl Crow because of all the disrespect in this thread. She does rock!!

Which inducted band would have caused most incredulity if you went back in time to the year of their debut

Billy Joel/Attila?

Attila wouldn't really count as Billy's debut, he recorded two albums with the Hassles before that (which admittedly no-one would have called Hall of Fame-worthy either).

Three Imaginary Boys probably would have seemed less promising than Speak and Spell (from the standpoint of what in 1979 seemed like history-making rock and roll).

Voted Kate Bush just because she's made the most music I like, and a little bit because her induction would tip the applecart a bit in terms of the hall and her own determination to do everything her way. Would she sail to Cleveland to perform?

I mean, she must be one of very few nominees who has never performed a live concert on American soil (Saturday Night Live doesn't count). Joy Division also, but they are sneaking in with New Order.

‘It’s a No From Me’: Two Rock Hall Voters Dissect This Year’s Ballot

https://www.vulture.com/2023/03/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-2023-voters-share-ballots.html

Their take on the Spinners is awful:

Voter 1: They were a great vocal group for the Motown sound. But I feel like they didn’t have a huge impact on other peers of theirs. They’re on the bubble for me. They’re going to just fall short. They definitely had some jams. “I’ll Be Around” and “Working My Way Back to You” are great songs. But again, they’re almost too ephemeral.

They didn't get big until they left Motown and hooked up with Thom Bell - if anything they had a tremendous impact on the PHILLY sound. They were the most successful practitioners of that music, commercially and artistically.

Voter 2: I like the Spinners, but I don’t know if they’re the right fit here. I appreciate the music, but it’s like we break the mold for some things and not others. I’d love to hear the counterargument, but I don’t think the overall influence versus popularity adds up. For me, it’s too far back. I can’t name the lineage of groups that were influenced by them.

Given how often they're sampled, this is baffling. It's not even limited to samples - someone I know tried to make the argument that one of Willow Smith's singles was this underrated masterpiece after it blew up on TikTok, and as soon as I played the opening, it sounded like the backing track was based on 'I'll Be There' but in a lower key.

With the Spinners, I'd count whatever influence they had as an extra; just on how great their music was alone (by which I really mean a representative compilation--although at least one regular-issue album is a classic, 1973's The Spinners), they should go in. Their chart-success, too, although again, I think there should be a level of excellence that gets someone in regardless. (You mean "I'll Be Around," right?) Which, I realize, is the most subjective call of all.

I suppose this doesn't bode well for them going in.

I don’t know if they’re the right fit here.

That’s the same horseshit argument MTV execs made in the early ‘80s for excluding Black acts while putting Hall & Oates in heavy rotation.

(Hall & Oates were inducted in 2014.)

"They didn't get big until they left Motown and hooked up with Thom Bell"

Yes--"It's a Shame" is great, but it's prelude, not a defining song in the way that "I'll Be Around" and "Could It Be I'm Falling In Love" are.

The one voter’s point re: why slayer should get in before Iron Maiden:

I think for somebody from metal to be in, we should nominate Slayer for the Hall of Fame. They had a great career. They headlined stadiums around the world and arenas, and they left a mark.

I’m pro-Slayer but…they’re talking about Maiden right?

They headlined stadiums around the world and arenas, and they left a mark.

you'd be hard pressed to find a band with a more international fanbase and has toured more places than maiden

(You mean "I'll Be Around," right?)

Ah, correct, that's what I meant. It really does feel like there's little chance for their induction. They've been nominated several times before, and it's surprising they haven't gotten in when the O'Jays were inducted in 2005. I love the O'Jays too, but they're about on par with each other - it's baffling how nearly 20 years later, the Spinners are still struggling to get in.

One of a Kind Love Affair: The Anthology is probably the best place to hear them, though for some reason they left out "Cupid/I've Loved You For A Long Time." (There's still plenty of room to spare on disc two.)

Maiden STILL plays arenas.

Slayer never drew like they did. Admittedly their final tour was an arena tour but the show I was at was far from sold out

The last four arena shows I've seen of Maiden have been.

Lol what a batshit argument

Would love to talk to that voter

They should let people vote for Best Mascot.

If I were being really flippant, I'd say Ringo--but I love Ringo.

Cyndi Lauper will be acknowledged for her work forging the worlds of rock and wrestling.

― Chris L, Wednesday, February 1, 2023 6:06 AM (one month ago)

cyndi lauper isn't even in the wwe hall of fame, which includes donald trump, which is disgusting and maybe she doesn't want any part of that or any hall anyways

is there any reason why a "voter for the rock and roll hall of fame" needs to be anonymous? beyond not rocking the boat and losing their ticket to the yearly cool kids dinner?

Joy Division/New Order

Voter 1: ​I won’t be voting for them because this is part of my strategic vote — I think they’re going to get a lot of votes.

LOL, it's like the ILM poll...

Brings to mind 2016 when I either knew or saw on the news a lot of people who voted for Jill Stein in America or in support of Brexit as a show of protest in the UK, believing Clinton was a lock and Brexit wouldn't happen. Brilliant strategy.

read that vulture article and while i disagree with them a a good deal and they’re factually incorrect a few times, they look like paragons of taste when compared to the ghoulish oscars voters they unearth every year

i looked up the attendance of the Slayer show I saw at PNC Arena in 2019 - 7,011 tickets sold (it seats 21,000 for concerts).

lol. that jibes with my memory of things.

I still think they should just retroactively just say that LL Cool J, Kraftwerk, Gil-Scott Heron and Judas Priest are normal inductees, it's so weird and aggravating

i've never been to the hall, or even to cleveland, but my understanding of how the inductees are presented in the hall is that everyone is presented as "normal" and the same, with no distinctions made for what route it took to get them in.

I dunno what it’s like now, but that wasn’t the case the handful of times I went to the hall (between 2006 and 2009). I distinctly remember the sign accompanying Louis Jordan’s saxophone and band book identifying him as an “early influence,” and a sign in the Cleveland room saying something along the lines of, “They’re not inductees, they’re just from Cleveland and they gave us some stuff.” (Best part of this room: the hammer and railroad spike donated by David Thomas.)

I went to the induction ceremony at the Barclays Center several years ago, and all of the inductees were treated and presented equally. Like, The Zombies must have gotten in through the Musical Excellence category, but were given a plumb (the penultimate) spot in the line-up that night.

I distinctly remember the sign accompanying Louis Jordan’s saxophone and band book identifying him as an “early influence”

i just looked at the inductee list on the rock hall website and saw that louis jordan, judas priest and everyone else is specifically designated by their route of entry ("musical excellence," "early influence," "performer," etc.), and so i hereby withdraw my attempt to extend a measure of grace to the institution.

The Zombies must have gotten in through the Musical Excellence category

they were voted in!

With time, I'm sure they may make some kind of adjustment that puts everyone on equal plane, whether it's getting rid of the category designations or turning them into footnotes of some kind and making everyone "regular" inductees. Not anytime soon but given how things are evolving, the definitions for those categories are only to grow more awkward and non-sensical. (It already is - Kraftwerk and Louis Jordan are both "early" influences?)

It wouldn't be controversial - like nobody goes to the baseball HOF and says "oh, he's a COMMITTEE induction, not a real induction"

The Baseball Hall of Fame, by contrast, does not differentiate between being voted in by the writers or by a rotating Veterans Committee comprised of ex-players/managers/GMs--even though the politics and inner workings of each are very distinct.

Missed your post...over time that distinction disappears, agree, but in the moment--Harold Baines is the best example--I think many fans are aware of it. And I imagine some people who walk into Cleveland would understand the difference between Chuck Berry and and an early influence they may not have heard of.

I don't remember if there was like an actual place in the Hall where every inductee was listed & some were ghettoized... I do remember some of the exhibits having the "early influence" sign, but in that context it almost felt more like a sign of respect than an asterisk.

Plus they had Andre 3000's jacket from the Stankonia tour, several years before OutKast even became eligible for the Hall, so who fucking knows

FWIW, there's two glaring omissions I noticed recently that should get a committee induction: Lee Dorsey and Huey "Piano" Smith. There's no way they're going to get voted in at this point or possibly nominated - there's too much newer competition - but they're exactly the kind of important figures that a committee should induct.]

Another (checked to confirm): Richard Berry. And not just for "Louie, Louie" (with or without comma)--there's "Riot in Cell Block #9"; the Flairs ("The Big Break" and "Next Time"); and, according to Wikipedia, he also spent time in the Penguins (not mentioned on their page, so I guess he wasn't on "Earth Angel") and a bunch of other doo-wop groups.

Can't believe Soundgarden isn't already in.

Soundgarden will likely get in this time. I think strong competition every time they've been nominated has kept them out. (I think they deserve to be in, but even on this ballot, I'm not even sure I'd put them down as a hypothetical tenth pick, let alone fifth.)

we need to collectively ignore the R&RHOF until they finally stop doing it. it will be such a good day.

I expect the big four grunge bands will all get in, they're just spreading it out a bit.