We Don't Want to Know: The ILM All-Time Video Poll (discussion, etc.; deadline is Monday, March 14)

We do want to know--starting with whether there's enough interest to warrant a poll.

No need for a nominating thread; any video ever qualifies. Homemade videos are fine; I can think of two or three I'd include on my own list. My preference would be to stay away from straight live clips, but vote for those if you want--Hendrix at Woodstock, Bo Diddley on the TNT show, whatever. Usual caveat: if you vote for something that really stretches the definition of what a music video is, and you care about the results, you're probably better not to. (If you don't care about the results, which is usually the case with me, go ahead. I voted for Mad Men in the all-time movie poll.)

I'd say vote for...I don't know, somewhere between 10-25?

If the interest seems to be there, please have all lists in no later than three weeks from today: by Monday, March 14. My e-mail is sayhey AT rocketmail DOT com.

One request: if you want to link to videos on this thread, do so without the http://. As you know, threads with numerous embedded videos take forever to load.

https://phildellio.tripod.com/world.jpg

I'm very interested but a nominations thread might be worthwhile for such an open-ended poll. Pretty daunting to vote without one!

This is super hard.

yeah i was thinking Directors Label stuff alone might take up a significant chunk of my ballot, but I would also love to vote for a ton of k-pop/j-pop and at least one my chemical romance video lol

but there are just way too many videos i love outside of those categories as well

Thanks for organising!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKhjaGRhIYU

The Knife - Pass This On - I think this is my favourite video ever

To clarify are TV performances e.g Beatles on Ed Sullivan, Future Islands on Letterman part of the poll or is it promo 'MTV' videos only?

I'll probably end up stuffing ballot with Michael Gondry directed videos anyway.

otm.

But there are some live concert vids I watched years ago that were good enough to stick with me. Bootsy Collins in DC, The Talking Heads in Rome…

Extra chances for ballot splitting cause most of the concerts are divided into separate songs.

May be more work than you want, but you could split the categories into actual promo clips and live performances (concert/TV/etc).

Let's not fill this with live footage imo, keep it to the intentional artworks

My first problem is narrowing down how many Joanna Wang (well, okay, Robert Youngblood) videos to vote for

I vote two polls! The performance vid poll could be sidelined pending further motivation.

If most people want to put performance clips (including Letterman/Sullivan appearances and such to the side, I'm fine with that.

a nominations thread might be worthwhile for such an open-ended poll

I can do that, it just seems like a lot of extra work for an all-time poll where everything is eligible (no performance clips stipulated).

If you need backup I could lend a hand although I have no behind the scenes experience in this arena.

intentional art is boring

lol fine, semi-intentional, you never quite know how a video's gonna work out after all

Viborg: thank you. If there's a general preference for a nomination list, maybe you could look after that on a Google Doc?

One thing that's true for me--and maybe this is self-evident, or maybe it's not true for most people--is that I have to really, really like a song to really, really like the accompanying video. If I don't love the song, the most I'll ever get from the video is "that's clever." An obvious (and old) example would be Weezer's "Buddy Holly" video. Conversely, rooted in how much I love the song, this homemade video for Liz Phair's "Divorce Song"--which is nothing, technically, but it deepens the song for me--would be on my list.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=IktAMW2ui3I

No idea where to even start with this one. Most of my picks would be from the 80's and 90's, which maybe goes without saying (coinciding with the peak of the music video's relevance). I agree that it's important to "really really like the song", but I don't know how I'll deal with canonical picks like "Sledgehammer". Groundbreaking video, great song? Yes and yes. But it's hardly my favourite Peter Gabriel song, let alone one of my favourite songs ever. Plus I've seen the video so many times, I'm actually kind of bored with it. But you can't argue its importance.

Without a doubt, this is my all-time favorite - "Can't Go Wrong Without You" by His Name Is Alive, directed by the Brothers Quay: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqxQ8H-nb_M
I saw this for the first time on MTV (120 Minutes), believe it or not.

i def think that performance videos a la last waltz or hendrix at monterey should not be in the same poll as an mtv-style music video

it’s very apples and oranges to me, and i can’t even begin to think about how i would narrow a list with both down or compare one to the other

oh nvm i think i misread the original post

The "Sledgehammer" video is a perfect example of one where I look at it and go "oh." Didn't mean anything to me then, and now it's like looking at hieroglyphics. (Not disputing its historical importance...which I never vote for in any kind of poll.)

No straight performance videos seems to be the preference. Performance inside a video with other video stuff going on--Blind Melon's "No Rain"--is fine. I'm sure there are many examples that blur the line, so make your own call.

Yeah, a lot of early promotional clips are just mimed performances, but I think they still count as "music videos" — they're simulations, played for a camera. Technically I guess lots of older TV shows were likewise lip-synched, but those still feel different — they're TV, but they're not "music videos" as a separate category.

Anyway, I love the poll idea.

I'd count this promotional clip for "Walk on By" as very much an early music video:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fGgxMO15sE

There are a number of great ones like that from the era.

Most of mine will likely be 80s and 90s, but my fave all time video is undoubtedly this contemporary one:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ4uBdmnKds

Shura - What's It Gonna Be?

Despite growing up in the MTV era, and having seen a zillion videos in my lifetime, I don't think I have too many "favorites." These are a few that come immediately to mind:

George Michael - Father Figure
Chavez - Break Up Your Band
Chemical Brothers - Let Forever Be

For sheer lunacy, George Michael's "Too Funky" is one of my favourites of that era:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ2DVwSVIIo

A lot of money to spend on such stuff back then.

Chavez - Break Up Your Band

YES, thought of this instantly when this thread was started

Viborg: thank you. If there's a general preference for a nomination list, maybe you could look after that on a Google Doc?

You’re welcome and for sure I’d be glad to help.

Let me get one started, and I'll set it up so you're able to edit. I'll start by listing all the songs mentioned so far.

Unless you want to do that yourself...I think I'd need an e-mail address to share editing with you.

don't forget the goat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEI7cTBVr2A

Started a spreadsheet...viewing only right now.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lQ75IZEv362aZrzoPH0G5ogeRZhOvGsfo9GedvMyAj4/edit?usp=sharing

Yeah lemme just dig up that old gmail address haha…a yahoo address won’t work will it?

And is this now the nominations thread or do we want to start a separate one?

Honestly don't know--we could try. (Send whatever to me using the rocketmail address in the opening post.)

Just use this as a nominations/discussion thread.

(Another thing I don't like about nominations is that you pretty much know everyone's ballot in advance via the nomination thread. Also, people end up voting for stuff not nominated all the time--I know I always think of a couple of things at the last minute.)

Admittedly I'm not super clear on the need for a sorted nominations list. This is the only comment I could find specifically advocating it:

I'm very interested but a nominations thread might be worthwhile for such an open-ended poll. Pretty daunting to vote without one!

― Vinnie, Monday, February 21, 2022 5:11 AM (fourteen hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

My understanding is that the nominations would help to provide suggestions for voting whether it's an unsorted thread or a sorted list, in a poll like this the structure provided by a sorted nominations list seems inessential. Maybe I'm missing something?

I would suggest we strongly recommend appending [Artist - Title] to links; aside from the archival value it helps to skim through the thread.

Anyway I'm still working on logging in to Gmail but I went ahead and sent you a message from my Yahoo account.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJssEgcn7AA

Aphex Twin - Windowlicker [dir. Chris Cunningham]

Sadly the intro has aged quite badly.

(xpost) You should be able to edit now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsAVx0u9Cw4

The Timelords [aka the Kopyright Liberation Front] - Doctorin' The Tardis

Cheers, it's view-only. I will sort out my gmail issues now.

Ok sent

Sadly the intro has aged quite badly.

Are there other parts of it that haven't?

Jesse Rae - Over The Sea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOad0FU9zF8

Anyone looking for a prompt should find something here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directors_Label

I think I've nominated that Jesse Rae video as the apotheosis of the 80s pop video (and therefore the pop video) elsewhere on this board to no response ;-)

It's tough to think of anything recent for this as I basically now only see music videos if I actively seek them out. And I rarely do that even for artists I enjoy -- I look for live performances.

Here's one though: David Bowie - Lazarus.

Aaliyah - Are You That Somebody?
Beastie Boys - Intergalactic
Black Flag - TV Party
Daft Punk - Da Funk
Depeche Mode - Enjoy the Silence
Depeche Mode - Personal Jesus
Fiona Apple - Not About Love
Kate Bush - Experiment IV
Lou Reed - No Money Down
Madonna - Express Yourself
Prince - Automatic
Prince - Batdance
Prince - Black Sweat
Prince & the Revolution - Kiss
Prince & the Revolution - When Doves Cry
R.E.M. - The One I Love
Rolling Stones - Undercover of the Night
Serge Gainsbourg - Melody Nelson
Ween - Freedom of '76
White Stripes - The Hardest Button to Button
ZZ Top - Gimme All Your Lovin'

Maybe nominations could close March 7, and then a week to send in your ballots; you can absolutely list something that isn't nominated (I'll add unnominated videos to the spreadsheet as lists come in). We're over 800 nominations now--that could go on forever.

Yura Yura Teikoku - ゆらゆら帝国で考え中

i don't think these ones were posted --

spiritualized - hey jane
arcade fire - we used to wait
the horrors - sheena is a parasite
bjork - pagan poetry
lcd soundsystem - oh baby

Don't sleep on that BAMFF video that Nag! Nag! Nag! suggested above...

Haven't seen these posted:

Spoons - Nova Heart www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA5CEUZH1AA
Blue Peter - Don't Walk Past www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7dN3cUlPRg
Rough Trade - Crimes of Passion www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCZqstFJdXE
The Box - L'Affaire Dumoutier www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A3gcDg5M3M
Rick James - Give It To Me Baby www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dNIQVYGXbM
Kraftwerk - Musique Non-Stop www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0lIlROWro8
David Bowie - Look Back in Anger www.youtube.com/watch?v=eszZfu_1JM0
The Cure - Lovecats www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OLYoq7j14w
The Cure - Just Like Heaven www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmHOl1eAcq8
Visage - Fade To Grey www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruYs8BRdwgY
Ultravox - The Thin Wall www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYGx00779f8
Ultravox - All Fall Down www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a-DiKhT4Uo
Christmas - Stupid Kids www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVbh0sHPZ6s
The Rattles - The Witch www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2LHQmp3kd8
Nico - Evening of Light www.youtube.com/watch?v=JieBL3rXmRc
Rolling Stones - Waiting on a Friend www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKLVmBOOqVU
Rolling Stones - Too Much Blood www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW9czZfH_EM
Pink Floyd - Welcome to the Machine www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygTyRFDxN7A

Well I could have formatted that better... sorry.

No problem...late; one of us will add them tomorrow.

Bee Gees - Idea
Depeche Mode - Get the Balance Right
Ultravox - Vienna
Adam Ant - Friend or Foe

Special one for Canadians (homemade):

Demics - New York City: www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrPOKNU5Ds4&t

Cate Le Bon - Home to You
Ariel Pink - Dayzed Inn Daydreams
Broadcast and The Focus Group - I See, So I See So
De La Soul - Stakes is High
Madonna - Oh Father

Nominations are open until Monday; after that, don't nominate anything else, but you can still vote for whatever you want. How to score your ballot is explained a couple of times in this thread.

Putting together my ballot, it's becoming apparent how much worse videos age compared to the underlying song. I still get a nostalgia kick from some of these eighties videos, but they just don't hold a candle to the post-Gondry stuff.

Conversely, once YouTube made videos widely available again, there was a burst of creativity, where budget was less of a constraining factor.

Very thankful for this nomination process, people have listed a ton of videos I love that I'd completely forgotten about. I do think nostalgic 80s videos will make up a good deal of my ballot tho

Glad it was useful.

it's becoming apparent how much worse videos age compared to the underlying song

For me, taking a look at stuff I loved 30 years ago hasn't moved the needle much--think I've found that, without exception, both the song and video have stood up extremely well.

Madonna - Human Nature

which will prob be my no. 1

hasn't moved the needle much

Exactly the kind of thing I complain about all the time in the annoying-phrases thread--caught in my own web of lies.

My ballot, I think, will consist of old videos that impressed me when I was young. What I find precious in a music video is its ability to create a world with minimal means; regardless of how technically accomplished modern videos can be, I don't think they're able to draw me into their worlds in the same way now.
I don't reject things just because they're recent, I appreciate a lot of modern movies. But so much of what I responded to in videos then was an unconscious mythology of music (and music-makers) that I'll never get back.
Still, I'll watch all the videos in the poll countdown and see if my perceptions change!

Looking at Saint Etienne's Neil cover to see how high I'd place it, I remembered this:

Psychic TV - Only Love Can Break Your Heart: youtube.com/watch?v=c2suWODDn08

I won't include both, so that's a very tough choice.

Madonna - What It Feels Like for a Girl

I was in college when MTV premiered in 1981. Only one of my friends had the channel, so he would record 2 hours at a time and we would watch them in an empty classroom.

The best videos back them were always the ones that had a surreal image, a camera move or a video effect I'd never seen before. Off the top of my head:

The Police, Wrapped Around Your Finger [dir. Godley & Creme] - It's in slow motion but the lips are still in sync.

Ultravox, The Thin Wall [dir. Russell Mulchahy] - Many arms burst through a wall to manhandle Midge Ure. Less impressive after I found out it was lifted from Repulsion.

Cabaret Voltaire, Sensoria [dir. Peter Care] - The camera starts at floor level, arcs up and over the singer and lands on the opposite side of the room, upside down.

The Art of Noise, Close (to the Edit) [dir. Zbigniew Rybczynski] - The stuttery jerky movement that I'm still not sure how it was done.

If, like me, you have a list of 50 videos (500 points), here's a way to distribute the points:

Top 10 - 30/25/22/20/18/13/13/13/13/13
Second 10 - 11 points each
Third 10 - 9 points each
Fourth 10 - 7 points each
Last 10 - 5 points each

I'm going to use that--adds up to 500 points, and saves having to decide if number #36 is better than #37.

Blue Oyster Cult had a great run of videos in the '80s, all with a cool trashy Sci-Fi & Horror sensibility.

"Burnin' For You"
"Joan Crawford"
"Take Me Away"
"Shooting Shark"
"Dancin' In Ruins"

xps HL, thanks for those early MTV picks. reminded me of this, Conny Plank produced song:

Belfegore - All That I Wanted

there's also a video for the Extended Club Mix

Stardust - Music Sounds Better With You
LL Cool J - Goin' Back to Cali
R.E.M. - Drive
Radiohead - Daydreaming
Lana Del Rey - Video Games
Whale - Hobo Humpin' Slobo Babe

No Oasis videos have been nominated but Noel Gallagher's DVD commentary over them is far more entertaining.

Another LL video that will probably be on my ballot:

Mama Said Knock You Out

Oh sorry, for record-keeping purposes:

LL Cool J - Mama Said Knock You Out

I always had a soft spot for the original New Slang video, because of all the references... back in 2001, this was like the indie-nerd bat signal.
The Shins - New Slang

You just got me to change my ballot by reminding me of something I'd forgotten:

Shins - The Past and the Pending: youtube.com/watch?v=7BA21a3vk_Y

Cabaret Voltaire, Sensoria [dir. Peter Care] - The camera starts at floor level, arcs up and over the singer and lands on the opposite side of the room, upside down.

aggressively seconding this nom, will be high on my ballot

Golden Earring: "Twilight Zone"
Dwight Twilley: "Girls"

I thought I'd start a voting/scoring thread later tonight. It'll be informational, mostly a way to clarify and ask questions about how to score your ballot. Nominations will close, but this thread can still be for general comments, etc.

Can we only vote for nominees? If so I'll try to get some more in.

Definitely not. If you remember something next week, just add it to your ballot, not a problem.

Came in to nom Tom Petty, Don't Come Around Here No More, but to our credit it's already there, so instead I'm nomming

Talking Heads, Burning Down the House

which inexplicably is not

Ever see Ken Burns' baseball film? He uses "Burning Down the House" for Reggie's 3-HR World Series game--fantastic.

What’s the March 14 deadline?

For your lists; nominations close today, then a week to get ballots in.

wax, southern california

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPhBgRSj6YQ

FYC she drives me crazy

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtvmTu4zAMg

GAGA, Bad Romance

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrO4YZeyl0I

freedom 90

www.youtube.com/watch?v=diYAc7gB-0A

crqzy world of arthur brown, fire

youtu.be/XbfIAdxS7ks

all is full of love

vimeo.com/43444347

lonely island ras trent

youtu.be/TcK0MYgnHjo

I;m on a boat

www.youtube.com/watch?v=avaSdC0QOUM

amish paradise

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg

weird al FAT

youtu.be/t2mU6USTBRE

Wax is already on the list for "California"--same song?

Siouxsie & The Banshees - Spellbound

Might be helpful to between "Wuthering Heights" videos:

trails version
trees version, or Versions 1 & 2, respectively. Not sure which is more celebrated? The former has more YT views.

They're both designated as official, and they're very different, so in that case, two separate entries would make sense. We'll see how people vote--if they don't designate which one, we'll add all votes together.

ZZ Top: "Sharp-Dressed Man"; "Legs"; "Sleeping Bag"; and "Burger Man"

Ctrl+F didn't reveal Nirvana: "Smells Like Teen Spirit"

Nor Garbage: "Only Happy When It Rains"; "Stupid Girl"; and "Queer"

iv had a running list going since this thread opened but havent had a chance to cross reference with the thread. sorry if duplicated.

Beck - E-Pro
ZZ Top - Rough Boy
Drake - Hotline Bling
Missy Elliott - Pass That Dutch
Scarface my block
Outkast BOB
2pac - Smile
2pac - I Get Around
2pac - I Aint Mad At Cha
Dmx - ruff ryders anthem
Ice cube - it was a good day
Snoop - whats my name
DJ SNake/ lil Jon - Turn down for what
Janet Jackson - thats the way love goes
Xzibit - what u see is what you get
Roots - dont say nuthin
Rema - dumebi
Caroline Polachek - So Hot You're Hurting My Feelings
Freeway - What we do
Wu tang - click click
Naughty by nature - feel me flow
NORE - superthug
Jay and Kanye - otis
Kanye - all falls down
2 CHainz - Birthday Song
Burna boy - ye
Health skeltah - operation lockdown
NIN - only
Jay rock - kings dead
Fatlip - Whats up fat lip
De la soul - ooohh
Redman - ill be dat
Three 6 Mafia - Stay Fly (ft 8ball & MJG)
Fugees - Ready or Not
ASAP Rocky - L$D
Master P - Make em Say Ugh
Rihanna - Rude Boy
Dem Franchise Boyz - Lean Wit It
TLC - Aint 2 Proud 2 Beg
Donnie Trumpet & the Social Experiment - Sunday Candy
Juvenile - Ha
Tyler The Creator - Yonkers
Slipknot - Before I Forget
E-40 - Tell Me When To Go
PM Dawn - Set A Drift On Memory Bliss
A Tribe Called Quest - Scenario

Cardigans: "My Favourite Game"

B-52's: "Deadbeat Club"

Free: "Wishing Well" One of those odd, way after the fact clips of a Classic Rock song made without the artist's involvement during the early MTV era.

Those have all been added now. No need for any more nominations--just put it on your ballot, it'll be counted. For voting details, go here:

Ritorna, Madonna: Voting and Scoring Thread for ILM's All-Time Video Poll (Voting Deadline: March 14)