Continuing with Spotify?

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I think the Spotify fallout warrants its own thread

― west elm girls (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, January 29, 2022 2:53 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

deep luminous trombone (Eazy), Saturday, 29 January 2022 04:30 (eight months ago) link

Neil out, Joni out

west elm girls (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 29 January 2022 04:48 (eight months ago) link

obviously this pleases me greatly, but it's going to take a contemporary megastar to change minds.

get shrunk by this funk. (Austin), Saturday, 29 January 2022 04:55 (eight months ago) link

Grimes' mother:

Feeling enormous pride that the artists who got this #Spotifydeleted train going are Canadian.@Neilyoung & @jonimitchell

There are sure to be more, and bigger. But it’s Canadians who led.

— Sandy Garossino (@Garossino) January 29, 2022

everything, Saturday, 29 January 2022 05:02 (eight months ago) link

I no longer control it or I would in support of Neil https://t.co/hrD132gi8T

— David Crosby (@thedavidcrosby) January 29, 2022

Animals must have a name (morrisp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 05:05 (eight months ago) link

nagl Barry

I recently heard a rumor about me and Spotify. I don’t know where it started, but it didn’t start with me or anyone who represents me.

— Barry Manilow (@barrymanilow) January 28, 2022

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Saturday, 29 January 2022 05:06 (eight months ago) link

it's going to take a contemporary megastar to change minds.

Well, Neil was a step forward after 270 doctors and scientists...

deep luminous trombone (Eazy), Saturday, 29 January 2022 05:23 (eight months ago) link

Lol. Cardiacs quit a couple of days before Neil but I am not sure that anyone noticed.

everything, Saturday, 29 January 2022 05:27 (eight months ago) link

Well, Neil was a step forward after 270 doctors and scientists...

― deep luminous trombone (Eazy), Friday, January 28, 2022 9:23 PM

yeah, which should have been the slam dunk from the get-go. and yet here we still are.

get shrunk by this funk. (Austin), Saturday, 29 January 2022 05:47 (eight months ago) link

(insert generic angry outrage rant that basically sums up to)

man. this whole thing really sticks in my craw.

ugh, past my bedtime and i'm grouchy. sorry for the unnecessary attitude.

get shrunk by this funk. (Austin), Saturday, 29 January 2022 05:55 (eight months ago) link

Spotify lost $4 billion in market value this week.

— scott budman (@scottbudman) January 28, 2022



This could end up another Qwikster moment, but interesting nonetheless

west elm girls (Whiney G. Weingarten), Saturday, 29 January 2022 06:18 (eight months ago) link

I know it’s just anecdotal, but I know several people IRL who are canceling their Spotify subscriptions this week (and I have few enough IRL “contacts” that that number feels significant to me).

Animals must have a name (morrisp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 06:37 (eight months ago) link

They paved Paradise, put up a Rogan Pod

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 29 January 2022 06:54 (eight months ago) link

No idea who this guy is but seeing lots of similar grim takes. And unlike Lloyd Cole, Bret's not afraid to play the 'wrong side of history' card

These artists have a right to remove content in protest. But make no mistake, their intent is to force Spotify to censor Joe Rogan so that you and I can no longer choose for ourselves whether to listen.

They’re on the wrong side of history. Truth persuades. It doesn’t coerce.

— Bret Weinstein (@BretWeinstein) January 29, 2022

groovypanda, Saturday, 29 January 2022 08:32 (eight months ago) link

Joni jumping in gives me hope that more will follow.

Worth noting here, I think, that The Best Show and Kreative Kontrol have left:

pic.twitter.com/79BJTQe0b1

— The Best Show (@bestshow4life) January 27, 2022


I hope you get the connection... pic.twitter.com/XzT3NsCPc5

— Kreative Kontrol (@VishKreative) January 27, 2022

alpine static, Saturday, 29 January 2022 08:46 (eight months ago) link

I suspect a lot of the young popular artists who could potentially make an impact here don't care about vaccines or public health and probably an alarming number of them totally agree with Rogan. OTOH artists have their own issues with Spotify and if a significant number of people drop it it may prompt a few more to leave, or they might at least perceive themselves as having new leverage.

Chris L, Saturday, 29 January 2022 09:35 (eight months ago) link

If you’re impressed that Spotify lost $4bn this week, just wait until you see how much they lost in the three weeks prior to that. Shares peaked at €312 last year, they’re less than half that now. The model just isn’t as profitable as investors want it to be (see also: Netflix dropping 45% of its share value in a few months).

Scampo di tutti i Scampi (ShariVari), Saturday, 29 January 2022 09:57 (eight months ago) link

^^^

the spotify market drop this week may get a tiny further bump downward from the news but is in line with market trends. artists dropping one at a time isn't going to occasion more than a "we're listening" statement from the company; it would take an organized action to make this more than a PR hiccup for them. Five, ten, fifteen big artists individually pulling their catalogs won't make them say "ok, we'll eat the hundred million we gave Rogan." an organized effort of fifty or more artists might -- Future of Music Coalition is as close as we have to that and I'm not sure they want to spearhead something that might be framed as partisan

J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 29 January 2022 12:36 (eight months ago) link

it would take an organized action to make this more than a PR hiccup for them

see also: literally every other consumer protest

Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map), Saturday, 29 January 2022 13:31 (eight months ago) link

TIL, Neil and Joni are both polio survivors

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Saturday, 29 January 2022 13:54 (eight months ago) link

I do want to ditch Spotify. I'm in the middle of a 3-month trial of Apple Music but I hate their UI and search functions. I'll give Qobuz a shot with their free month. One frustrating thing is having to pay some third party to migrate playlists, and the migration options seem to have frustrating limits. I just discovered the 1500-track Anthology of Dub playlist this past week, and the Spotify ---> Qobuz migration tool has a limit of 1000 tracks per playlist.

Everybody Loves Ramen (WmC), Saturday, 29 January 2022 14:08 (eight months ago) link

I don’t have any specialty loyalty to Spotify but I have become pretty dependent on streaming. The thing that is bumming me out is that moving to a service that would be equivalent would just be moving to another corporation… I mean, it’s not like Rogan is not in Apple because they are principled. They just lost out o a deal.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 14:45 (eight months ago) link

i'm continuing with spotify

aegis philbin (crüt), Saturday, 29 January 2022 14:46 (eight months ago) link

“Speciality loyalty” = morning brain

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 14:47 (eight months ago) link

My spotify and hulu subscriptions are intertwined, so if I ditch spotify for another platform I lose (free) hulu. As soon as it becomes clear where the greatest number of people are migrating to, I'll follow. But for now I'm stuck.

Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Saturday, 29 January 2022 14:53 (eight months ago) link

and the Spotify ---> Qobuz migration tool has a limit of 1000 tracks per playlist.

split the 1500 tracks into two playlists of 750, migrate them both, then drag and drop the second playlist into the first playlist, right?

Karl Malone, Saturday, 29 January 2022 14:58 (eight months ago) link

As I said on the other thread, between collaborative playlists, and the family plan, I'm not sure how I could readily disentangle myself from using this platform. If I had a single-user subscription, I may just hop over to Qobuz or Apple (mixed results with the free version of SongShift last night, migrating playlists over to my Qobuz trial, but not insurmountable).

xp - merging playlists: may or may not be possible once they're migrated; last night's brief experience gave me a fixed imported playlist that I could neither add to nor delete from.

Michael Jones, Saturday, 29 January 2022 15:02 (eight months ago) link

oh, weird? i shouldn't talk - i've never heard of Qobuz until this morning - but i just figured any playlist could be edited, if you made it in the first place! kinda weird.

i really hate my opinion on spotify and the alternatives, so much that for once i'll stfu

Karl Malone, Saturday, 29 January 2022 15:16 (eight months ago) link

is it easy to import spotify playlists to another plataform?

Shin Oliva Suzuki, Saturday, 29 January 2022 15:32 (eight months ago) link

Xp - yeah, was odd. 37 of 40 tracks matched by SongShift, figured I could add the ones it couldn’t find manually on Qobuz but no: that imported playlist was read-only. The attempt to do the same with one of the ILX c20 classical playlists was hopeless - barely a 10% match.

Michael Jones, Saturday, 29 January 2022 15:45 (eight months ago) link

If I pay actual money to some service to migrate my Bacharach list (738 tracks) and the Dub list and wind up with a 10% match rate, I will be hot under the collar.

Everybody Loves Ramen (WmC), Saturday, 29 January 2022 15:54 (eight months ago) link

The thing that is bumming me out is that moving to a service that would be equivalent would just be moving to another corporation… I mean, it’s not like Rogan is not in Apple because they are principled. They just lost out o a deal.

Rogan signed with Spotify in May 2020, and Apple launched podcast subscriptions over a year later. So AFIK they wouldn’t have been in the running when Rogan made his deal (in fact, it was deals like his which got Apple serious about building out exclusive podcasts of their own)… which may not alter your overall rationale

Animals must have a name (morrisp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 15:56 (eight months ago) link

Do people have to be paid subscribers to hear Rogan on Spotify? I figured it was just to get people to the platform. Apple surely would have made a deal with Rogan to keep people using their platform exclusively, but probably didn’t need to as much as Spotify did.

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:02 (eight months ago) link

Right, I don’t think that was part of their business plan at the time. Maybe they would’ve signed him in a different scenario, who knows (in which case Young would presumably be pulling his music from Apple)

Animals must have a name (morrisp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:06 (eight months ago) link

Idk, I found a Steve Bannon podcast on Apple. Is it still okay to switch to Apple? Maybe I’ll go to YouTube where absolutely no white supremacists or QAnon nuts exist?

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:10 (eight months ago) link

It's his reach and influence that makes the difference, the size of his audience.

I mean, Spotify pulled a bunch of archived episodes - with Gavin McInnes and others - so there was pressure from the beginning not to spoil the platform with his show. The issue then becomes whether giving disinformation on Covid is a deal-breaker for an episode of his that Spotify chooses to host.

deep luminous trombone (Eazy), Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:15 (eight months ago) link

I dislike Spotify for a few reasons, but yes switching to Apple or Amazon for political reasons (or even the sole reason of disseminating Covid misinformation) does not make a lot of sense. Some people earlier were suggesting that the fact Spotify directly pays Rogan, rather than simply making money off ads a la YouTube, is worse but idk if I find that super convincing.

That said afaict, Qobuz and Tidal don't have the "we murder workers" problem that Apple and Amazon do nor the "paying Joe Rogan $$$" problem, so it's a little disingenuous to frame this as just "Spotify or Apple? what's the diff"

rob, Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:18 (eight months ago) link

Maybe so. I’ve never heard of Qobuz until about an hour ago. Admittedly I’ve never tried Tidal.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:19 (eight months ago) link

It was initially challenging to get past the "Tidal? lol" reaction, I'll admit

rob, Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:25 (eight months ago) link

The thing that is bumming me out is that moving to a service that would be equivalent would just be moving to another corporation… I mean, it’s not like Rogan is not in Apple because they are principled. They just lost out o a deal.

otm. also, to the extent that this list of top 100 podcasts on apple podcast is accurate, the current #10 podcast in the united states (on apple podcast) is the Joe Rogan Experience Review, a podcast where some enormous fucking loser spends 45 minutes dissecting the latest joe rogan podcast

Karl Malone, Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:26 (eight months ago) link

#15 is the ben shapiro show.

ben shapiro is worse than joe rogan (but not as popular). he is a hitler youth

Karl Malone, Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:27 (eight months ago) link

the matt walsh show at #35, what a wonderful person he is

Karl Malone, Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:28 (eight months ago) link

i survey the landscape of american podcasts and i want them all to disintegrate my own brain

Karl Malone, Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:29 (eight months ago) link

let me check google/youtube real quick, see if there is any joe rogan-esque content on there

Karl Malone, Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:29 (eight months ago) link

I moved to Tidal from Spotify about 3 months ago after being on Spotify since it originally launched and for the most part I've been content with it. There are a few things that I miss from Spotify, but nothing that would compel me to go back.

The increased emphasis on podcasts combined with the Helsing.ai thing are what pushed me to pull the plug. I'm also trying to shift more of my spending/listening to Bandcamp, but I'm too hooked on streaming at this point to abandon it completely.

fffv, Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:30 (eight months ago) link

I mean, Tidal is now majority-owned by a gross tech bro, if you're looking for a "political" reason to avoid that too

Animals must have a name (morrisp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:38 (eight months ago) link

gross how?

aegis philbin (crüt), Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:43 (eight months ago) link

Dorsey? I'm half joking (though he's not my type of fellow). He hasn't paid Rogan $100m, that's for sure. If I were a heavy Spotify user, and not invested in Amazon or Apple, I'd prob switch to Tidal - the UI is v similar

Animals must have a name (morrisp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:46 (eight months ago) link

The arguments that other platforms also feature reprehensible content are valid but imho the Spotify/Rogan issue is different because of the extent to which Spotify has made Rogan the face of their brand. Rogans show is one of the most popular media properties out there and Spotify's play for him was explicitly about identifying themselves w/him in a bid to lure his audience, which imho puts it in another category than just "I can find people saying worse stuff on other platforms too". Ben Shapiro is a monster & is platformed by Apple Podcasts, but at least they are not repeatedly giving him big public bearhugs the way Spotify does w/Rogan, giving him the PR boost that his views are something Spotify considers normal & mainstream.

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:46 (eight months ago) link

That’s a good way of putting it.

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Saturday, 29 January 2022 16:53 (eight months ago) link

Not Spotify-specific news, but Snoop what are you doing, bro????

Let's disco dance, Hammurabi! (Austin), Tuesday, 15 March 2022 23:17 (six months ago) link

Great dangling modifier in that piece:

After buying the iconic brand and catalog last month and promising to transform it into “an NFT label” operating in the metaverse, fans were perplexed this weekend…

Please don’t take / My time change away (morrisp), Wednesday, 16 March 2022 02:53 (six months ago) link

two months pass...

So I finally signed up for a free month of Qobuz and their app is really buggy

THE VEIVET UIUERABOUIU (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 5 June 2022 00:31 (three months ago) link

so they've learned spotify's secrets?

Herby Dutch Baby (Sufjan Grafton), Sunday, 5 June 2022 01:31 (three months ago) link

“why yes, the album is finished, so obviously i want to switch output sources now” ffs

Tracer Hand, Sunday, 5 June 2022 08:30 (three months ago) link

three weeks pass...

Qobuz’ search function is so bad I’m considering keeping my Spotify subscription, ecccch.

Antifa Sandwich Artist (Boring, Maryland), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 03:02 (three months ago) link

Haven't seen that viscerally unpleasant Joe Rogan podcast image for months. Don't know whether Spotify finally buried him or whether my algorithm is working. Still would LOVE to remove every podcast from my home page. They can all fuck off. Mighty Boosh? Fuck off. Unf*ck Your Brain? FUCK OFF. Do You F***** Mind? FUCKING FUCK OFF!!!!

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 07:28 (three months ago) link

I've had it turn up over the last couple of weeks while I've been searching through things. So maybe it's not being proffered as much.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 09:34 (three months ago) link

one month passes...

I was just responding to the ‘is music you loved most from 16-22 your go-to music’ thread and realised I was heading way off piste and it belonged here…

I find Spotify kind of overwhelming, to the point where it has been actively preventing me from seeking out or listening to new music.

At this point, 10+ years in I am drowning in playlists - I made genre playlists as I’ve gone along, monthly ones, mood ones, I also follow all sorts of great curated ones. Plus playlists of things I’ve ‘liked’, release radars, playlists pulled from playlists ad infinitum.

The whole mess gives me crippling option paralysis. If I want to listen to any of the my crafted genre playlists I find myself skipping music I previously loved but don’t want to ditch from the painstakingly crafted playlist for ‘completeness’ sake.

Then I feel like I should be listening to new music. While doing that I get to the thoughts of ‘why are you doing this? there is so much music you have already on these playlists that you have barely heard 3 times’

Then I feel like I should maybe just make a playlist of things I like this month. But if I do that and end up dragging each of the songs to their respective genres and playlists and and and etc etc etc.

For someone like me, an obsessive lister and hoarder the whole thing is a complete fucking chore and I spend more time worrying that I’m missing out on something or doing playlist admin than enjoying listening to music. I know this is my problem and not Spotify’s but it is a problem nonetheless.

I tried at one point just sacking it off and creating a new account but ended up back on the playlist hell one within a month - in some kind of ‘sunk cost fallacy’ due to the amount of time spent using it.

If you had told teenage me I would have access not only to listen to 80% of the music that weeks NME, but 80% of recorded music ever, I would have sold my kidneys to get access. But here I am 10 years in and I couldn’t be using it less.

Nowadays the vast majority of my favourite music of the last few years has been discovered from sifting through my Bandcamp ‘music feed’, looking through the collections of people who have bought a handful of the same songs as me, finding tracks I like and buying them.

Agnes, Agatha, Germaine and Jack (Willl), Monday, 22 August 2022 15:22 (one month ago) link

I don't use Spotify, but I relate very strongly to the option paralysis. I still use iTunes to listen to music, and still make playlists there, and I have a bunch of playlists of things I'm saving to listen to later, and it's like gigabytes full of music. Later never really comes.

Paul Ponzi, Monday, 22 August 2022 15:34 (one month ago) link

although I have many playlists, most of my listening is focused on two big ones. The first is just all my favorite stuff, a huge list of just everything that I like and want to hear on a regular basis. I look at this as my master radio station that just plays the stuff I like. The second is New Music, anything new that I'm wanting to check out. Once something is no longer new to me, I take it off, possibly moving to the favorites list if I still like hearing it.

I have specialized lists for very particular moods or situations, and a few for DJ-oriented listening tasks, but those first two are the main ones. The key to me is keeping lists big enough so they don't just feel like I'm listening to the same thing over and over again.

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Monday, 22 August 2022 15:40 (one month ago) link

I left Spotify for Apple Music several years ago. The latter just integrates better with all my devices, although it has its frustrations (for me, primarily the way it handles playlists from my existing iTunes library, which is about 2/3 classical music).

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 22 August 2022 15:41 (one month ago) link

I mostly don't bother with playlists. I just have my track collection, my album collection and my artists collection. Whenever I listen to new stuff (which I mostly get through the algorithmic recommendations or through ilm) I put anything I like into my "liked" tracks and then later will sometimes just listen to the latest additions to my liked tracks which sometimes prompts me to check out that artist's albums, which will sometimes go into my "liked" albums. Any artist who was produced something I like goes into my "liked" artists.

When I don't know what I want to listen to, I just put tracks collection on shuffle (it has basically become the world's best radio station at this point).

The only playlists I really keep are "<current year> Tracks" and "<current year> Albums" playlists, which are mostly just so I don't forget anything in year end polls.

I tried creating curated playlists for myself in the past, but it was just too much of an undertaking and ultimately not that much fun to do.

I'm listening to way more new music in the streaming era than I ever was in the CD or download era.

silverfish, Monday, 22 August 2022 15:43 (one month ago) link

I set up "smart" playlists that will keep track of stuff I haven't listened to in, say, 6 months. I can't stand to shuffle classical tracks, so I need it to be able to play by album. That works great on my Mac, much less so on my mobile devices.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Monday, 22 August 2022 15:45 (one month ago) link

"option overload" is what i call it.

one way i try to mitigate that burnout is to limit how many days in a row i check out new (to me) things. like if i check out a new album or band today, i might end up listening to a few albums or the same album more than once. so tomorrow, i'll take a break from "new" music. maybe revisit something else similar, maybe listen to the new thing again, maybe just read a book, maybe just throw on my "radio" playlist for the background. it helps to reboot my brain, otherwise everything starts to kind of sound the same and i find myself asking "do i even like music anymore?" and other obvious nonsense.

an aside: i ran into this same problem with guitar effects pedals. i like delay and it's favorite effect, but the delays out these days are so far from a simple old dd-3. i started to find myself sitting on the floor in front of my amp pressing buttons and twisting knobs for an hour just to get a usable sound. rarely was able to work through a whole song because i always wanted to change something — and the pedals allow you to make all kinds of changes! it made me not want to play guitar.

ミ💙🅟 🅛 🅤 🅡 🅜 🅑💙彡 (Austin), Monday, 22 August 2022 16:01 (one month ago) link

Talking about ‘end of year’ tracks, when the massive end of year ILM playlist was posted last year my option paralysis was out of the window.

I was going to listen to it all, pick favourites, submit a poll and so on. I ravenously listened to the lot, relistened to get a shortlist from the long list and so on, discovered some real favourites.

Then once the poll happened, I filed the lot into their rough genre playlists to be heard some time in 2027 when the stars align and their genre is chosen + the dismal shuffle feature finds them. Send help.

Re: Smart playlists - these are one of my favourite things about iTunes / Apple Music and their integration with DJ software was invaluable back when I played out - at least to take chunk of ‘options’ away based on release date / genre etc.

Agnes, Agatha, Germaine and Jack (Willl), Monday, 22 August 2022 16:03 (one month ago) link

And I supposed where all this ties in to that ‘16-22’ thread was that I know for a fact back when I was that age I could only afford a CD, or a few 12”s each week and I would listen to anything I bought so, so much.

Now I feel like I give everything 20% of my attention while the remaining 80% is janitorially thinking ‘where should I file this’ / ‘hey this would mix with xyz’ / ‘this is just retromania of genre Z’ rather than focusing.

Agnes, Agatha, Germaine and Jack (Willl), Monday, 22 August 2022 16:09 (one month ago) link

an aside: i ran into this same problem with guitar effects pedals. i like delay and it's favorite effect, but the delays out these days are so far from a simple old dd-3. i started to find myself sitting on the floor in front of my amp pressing buttons and twisting knobs for an hour just to get a usable sound. rarely was able to work through a whole song because i always wanted to change something — and the pedals allow you to make all kinds of changes! it made me not want to play guitar.

Yes, dude! I got stuck into a loop where I spent way too much time thinking about effects pedals and way too little time practicing, by a huge margin. Gear Acquisition Syndrome, as it is sometimes called. Haven't played guitar or bass in years because it wasn't musically satisfying to me and I kept going back to the need to shop. How stupid is that? Tried to teach myself piano for a while, but couldn't stick with it. Sometimes I tinkle around on the keyboard though, just trying to figure out melodies, which is maybe just about right for me!

I have lots of "scrap playlists" that I make to sample new things. Usually destroy these once they outlive their usefulness/I decide I just am not going to get that deeply into those songs/albums/genres. These are usually pretty disappointing. This is where I'm trying to sift through the waves of new music that I see recommended and end up just being like, "eh."

Then I have a few classic playlists that I curate and love. They may be themed around pop women from the 2000s or motivational songs from action movies or the best 1990s alternative songs that I loved.

peace, man, Monday, 22 August 2022 17:09 (one month ago) link

spotify is a mess. i usually just hit 'liked songs' and shuffle it. maybe sort by date and listen to the most recent stuff. the phone version lets you filter by genre which is cool, wish they would add that functionality to the desktop version. wish the liked songs had a lot more filtering options tbh.

other than that i check out my discover weekly playlist pretty frequently. i have tons of playlists but group them in folders and never feel like opening them up to sift through it all.

Spottie, Monday, 22 August 2022 18:15 (one month ago) link

And I supposed where all this ties in to that ‘16-22’ thread was that I know for a fact back when I was that age I could only afford a CD, or a few 12”s each week and I would listen to anything I bought so, so much.

Now I feel like I give everything 20% of my attention while the remaining 80% is janitorially thinking ‘where should I file this’ / ‘hey this would mix with xyz’ / ‘this is just retromania of genre Z’ rather than focusing.

― Agnes, Agatha, Germaine and Jack (Willl), Monday, August 22, 2022 12:09 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

I could have written this exact post. Scary

We old

Paul Ponzi, Monday, 22 August 2022 19:46 (one month ago) link

For someone like me, an obsessive lister and hoarder the whole thing is a complete fucking chore and I spend more time worrying that I’m missing out on something or doing playlist admin than enjoying listening to music. I know this is my problem and not Spotify’s but it is a problem nonetheless.

Since 2004, I've been making best-of-the-year playlists. For the first few years, I would listen to a bunch of songs and albums during the year, regularly move favorite songs onto a playlist, and then at the end of the year add some new discoveries from year-end lists. I would get kind of obsessive about sequencing the final collection of songs, but the process of compiling them was a straightforward byproduct of my usual habits of listening for pleasure.

Within a few years of using Spotify, though, I started keeping track of albums I wanted to listen to eventually, or that I thought I *should* listen to or might potentially enjoy, even if I wasn't compelled to listen to them right away -- and so by the end of the year, I didn't just have the handful of new discoveries to catch up on, I also had the backlog of "stuff to check out." But by that point, my primary motivation for listening to those albums was for the chance to encounter a song I could put on the playlist.

To make matters worse, I got kind of lazy about listening to new music as soon as it came out because I knew I could just add it to the "stuff to check out" playlist. Which meant that I was approaching more and more albums in a methodical, cold-eyed fashion, where I'd just listen once or twice or only as long as it took to identify my favorite song from it, and then on to the next album. For the last two years, I've put off even starting to compile the playlist until the following year and then spent months listening to little besides the hundreds of albums "to check out" from the year before.

Over time, the best-of-the-year playlist has expanded in length, as I've listened to more and more albums, and I've found a lot of genuinely great songs along the way. I like the end product, but the process does often feel like a time-consuming chore, and I don't really feel much of an emotional connection to most of what I listen to.

jaymc, Monday, 22 August 2022 20:23 (one month ago) link

Sounds similar to my experiences. I’m glad I have the playlists, and more often than not at this point, shuffling them will uncover total gems that I don’t remember adding at all, that are totally my bag. But I’m with you on the feeling a lack of connection to it all.

I also have a 2500+ track deep ‘sample me’ playlist folder with subfolders for ‘brass’ / ‘fx’ / ‘vox’ etc. I don’t have a hope in hell of getting through that lot even if I live another 60 years, and it keeps getting bigger. But I can’t bin it because ‘what if that is *the* sample…’.

In some respects I almost hope for a solar flare to come along to wipe it all out so I can enjoy music again as the digital curation of it just frazzles me.

Agnes, Agatha, Germaine and Jack (Willl), Monday, 22 August 2022 20:37 (one month ago) link

"stuff to check out" is death

I like how this thread has become a combo self-help group / confessional for people like me who are having an increasingly hard time navigating the blessing and curse that is modern music consumption. I'll say this: I know I enjoyed discovering music more, on the whole, twenty years ago, when it required more effort. But is that because of algorithms and access, or because it was, uh, twenty years ago and I was twenty years younger? I don't imagine people under 20 are having these kinds of anxiety attacks

Paul Ponzi, Monday, 22 August 2022 20:38 (one month ago) link

it helps that I have a specific focus for "new music" - stuff that fits with my general radio show themes (which are v. eclectic but still pretty genre-specific, imagine a show where International Anthem and Staalplaat get equal billing), shorter tracks (well less than 10 minutes ideally), no (or very few) cuss words, that's what I end up buying on Bandcamp, and at this point just already-bookmarked ILM threads plus the artists and labels I follow give me enough input most of the time

recent examples:

Amateur Hour
Valerie June
Stephen Mallinder
Radboud Mens
Isa Gordon
Panda Bear/Sonic Boom
Cassini (ILX all-starz)

thinkmanship (sleeve), Monday, 22 August 2022 21:00 (one month ago) link

I used to have a "stuff to check out" playlist but I eventually gave up on it. I just accepted that there's stuff out there that I'm interested in that I will never listen to and I am probably missing out on some good stuff but whatever, it's not like I ever got around to listening to every album I ever held in my hand considering whether I should buy it while browsing in a record store and I'm sure I've forgotten completely about most of those albums. Think about what you have, not what you're missing out on.

silverfish, Monday, 22 August 2022 21:02 (one month ago) link

I know I enjoyed discovering music more, on the whole, twenty years ago, when it required more effort. But is that because of algorithms and access, or because it was, uh, twenty years ago and I was twenty years younger? I don't imagine people under 20 are having these kinds of anxiety attacks

I would say partly just being younger, also partly inability to cope with change - we learned how to cope with limited access and are having trouble dealing with unlimited, for these youngsters unlimited is all they know and I'm sure they're coping with it fine and developing different listening strategies as a result.

One other aspect is physical visibility - when I owned CDs I could see all the music I had at a glance. Now even if I have a similar online playlist or library of albums, at best I have to scroll through a huge gallery of thumbnails to find something.

the man with the chili in his eyes (ledge), Tuesday, 23 August 2022 14:37 (one month ago) link

I feel like my experience is almost the inverse of what most of you are describing. In the CD era I spent a ton of time categorizing and cataloguing not just my listening, but my "collecting", and always had a giant stack of CDs that I had purchased but either not played at all yet, or not really absorbed, and I felt a constant sense of obligation to do so.

Streaming has relieved me of most of that sense of burden. It's not my job*, as an individual listener, to categorize or catalogue things. There's no sunk cost obligating me to listen to 5 more albums by a band I'm turning out to not really need more of. Plus discovery is no longer gated by shopping, which was always a terrible way of exploring music. So now I get to wander around the entire music universe (more or less), and it's even more amazing than I ever imagined.

*It's probably relevant that it is my job, as an employed person, to categorize music. Not to catalogue it, but that job gives me easy ways to make use of other people's cataloguing work. I can imagine feeling less willing to leave all of that to other people if I weren't involved in how it's done...

glenn mcdonald, Tuesday, 23 August 2022 20:30 (one month ago) link

I don't use any streaming services.

What I *do* end up doing is favoriting or liking things on Bandcamp, saving them for a Bandcamp Friday ostensibly, but really just saving them for when I have some time to listen in more and decide whether to purchase. This feels much more healthy to me and more like "going to the record store" than what you all are describing, and I recommend it.

Remember, music is about enjoyment!

broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Tuesday, 23 August 2022 22:10 (one month ago) link

I stream but I save albums to check out, curating playlists is too much like work for me

Mar - a - Lago, or 120 Days of Sodom (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 23 August 2022 22:15 (one month ago) link

I just keep a "Faves" playlist of my favorite tracks each year, which ends up running around 60 mins. I arrange for flow and everything (not that anyone whom I share the link with likely listens or cares).

Porcine-lina of the Pig Oceans (morrisp), Tuesday, 23 August 2022 22:24 (one month ago) link

(I listen to it, though!)

Porcine-lina of the Pig Oceans (morrisp), Tuesday, 23 August 2022 22:24 (one month ago) link

xp re: Bandcamp. Yeah that’s where I’m at nowadays. As you said, it feels much more like actively going shopping for music in a store, and the act of editing down a shortlist to choose a handful of favourites is one of lifes greatest joys.

Also it means my Bandcamp collection is far more concise than my Spotify account, which sometimes feels like a cupboard packed with playlists,
greedily stuffed with all I can fit from the Spotify
audio buffet, then almost immediately forgotten about and gathering mould. So to speak :)

Agnes, Agatha, Germaine and Jack (Willl), Tuesday, 23 August 2022 22:33 (one month ago) link

I have endless folders and subfolders sorted by decade, genre, and artist, plus a zillion playlists organized by year or by theme.

It would be fair to say I do “project-based listening” - where I have set out some parameters (ie, a list) of albums or artists or tracks to dig through. And then I archive that project somewhere via playlists or folders. (If for no other reason than to remind myself that, yes, I did work my way through Blue Cheer’s discography and I don’t need to do that again).

There are times when that can feel overwhelming but truthfully the process is where half the pleasure is

sctttnnnt (pgwp), Tuesday, 23 August 2022 22:58 (one month ago) link

my Friday afternoon commute playlist is extremely cool

brimstead, Tuesday, 23 August 2022 23:11 (one month ago) link

I really love being able to check out so much stuff. I still buy cds and lps though, sounds like a lot you don’t.

brimstead, Tuesday, 23 August 2022 23:12 (one month ago) link

i can tell you how my kids handle spotify. they have one playlist of favourites and they leave autoplay on. they don’t use discover weekly. they sometimes check out top 50 or viral 50. that’s it. the only searching they do is to find a song they heard on tiktok. they don’t think about “algo” vs “no algo”. algos are just an expected part of any service.

the end result of this for my 13 year old appears to be an abiding interest in 90s west coast hiphop?

Tracer Hand, Wednesday, 24 August 2022 14:17 (one month ago) link

when I owned CDs I could see all the music I had at a glance

My problem is that I have very limited shelf space, so a lot of my CDs are in rows three deep and then stacks on top of those, making it very difficult to remember what I actually own at times and forcing me to go rooting around looking for things (is it in this pile? no, it's in that other pile behind the other one...fuck).

I don't use any streaming services.

What I *do* end up doing is favoriting or liking things on Bandcamp, saving them for a Bandcamp Friday ostensibly, but really just saving them for when I have some time to listen in more and decide whether to purchase. This feels much more healthy to me and more like "going to the record store" than what you all are describing, and I recommend it.

I do this; every day or two, I go to Bandcamp's front page and click the "new releases" link, specifying "jazz" (and then "metal" and occasionally "electronic" > "techno") and checking out a few things that seem interesting, placing them in my cart and coming back around in a week or so.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 24 August 2022 14:26 (one month ago) link

Also, I still use Tidal.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 24 August 2022 14:27 (one month ago) link

I have a whole convoluted method for finding new music to buy, particularly for DJ sets.

1. use glenn's spotify new releases by genre page to scan lots of weekly new releases quickly

2. if something catches my ear, pull it up on spotify and check out a bunch of that artist's recent releases

3. if I find anything there that I really like put it on my big DJ tracks master playlist

4. listen to list on shuffle to get familiarized with the tracks I've added

5. when it's time to put a set together, start pulling down about 2-4 hours worth of tracks from the master list into a set list and organize it, filling in any blanks as needed

6. purchase all tracks on the set list from bandcamp if possible, otherwise beatport

if there's tracks that I really like and want more of, or if I'm looking for something really particular there's a number of things in spotify that help me find more like that such as radio playlists and the "fans also like" suggestions. I also follow a lot of record label playlists where they'll just have their entire catalog.

I pretty much never browse for music in bandcamp because I find navigation on it to be a nightmare, just use it for actually buying the music.

Muad'Doob (Moodles), Wednesday, 24 August 2022 14:37 (one month ago) link

Bandcamp is a brilliant shop and sampling-before-buying site but a nightmare for organising your own purchases and listening to stuff, especially once you’ve bought a couple of extensive discography bundles.

Tsar Bombadil (James Morrison), Thursday, 25 August 2022 00:43 (one month ago) link

I'm running an unscientific experiment with an EP I'm releasing, in terms of the algorithmic and editorial playlists. My theory is that you should always pitch the shortest track on the release, especially if it's under 3 min, even if it's the weirdest track on the record.

change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 1 September 2022 17:33 (four weeks ago) link

In an effort to overcome choice paralysis with the music I already know (ignoring the incomparably vaster problem of the music that I don't) I've set up a spreadsheet with all the albums I've ever owned or saved to Spotify or otherwise loved, and a random number generator. If I were feeling fancy I could stick it online with some kind of api nonsense to try and open the album directly, this works fine enough though.

ledge, Thursday, 8 September 2022 10:25 (three weeks ago) link

This has been helpful for me:

https://www.nativenoise.co.za/spotify/album-selector/

brimstead, Thursday, 8 September 2022 17:49 (three weeks ago) link

^essentially lets you scroll through your saved albums randomly

brimstead, Thursday, 8 September 2022 17:50 (three weeks ago) link

Update: it didn't work, lol. I guess the next experiment is to always include a track that's both 2 minutes long AND accessible.

change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 8 September 2022 17:51 (three weeks ago) link

OK what fresh hell is this?

What in the name of Steve Albini is this underneath the lyrics box for Nirvana's Lithium? Kurt would have loved the Instagram inspo slogan memeification of his work 😌 pic.twitter.com/Zm3D9p0znD

— Dan Hancox (@danhancox) September 21, 2022

Alba, Wednesday, 21 September 2022 10:06 (one week ago) link

A few of my fave current artists have recorded Spotify Singles recently, which is irritating to me as a non-subscriber (since I can’t easily hear them) – but it’s an effective gambit by Big Green.

Obviously Five Beliebers (morrisp), Wednesday, 21 September 2022 14:06 (one week ago) link

xpost creepy

SincereLee 'Scratch' Perry (President Keyes), Wednesday, 21 September 2022 14:08 (one week ago) link

More track-matching weirdness. The Super Deluxe box set is available for 'pre-saving' on Spotify and as well as the already released new stereo mix of Taxman it purports to have the mono versions of Here There and Everywhere, And Your Bird Can Sing and Eleanor Rigby already playable. But start playing them and it's actually the old stereo mixes.

https://i.imgur.com/TLdQsJS.png

Alba, Wednesday, 21 September 2022 14:30 (one week ago) link

OK what fresh hell is this?

A direct quote from Live Tonight Sold Out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM7oNFn6U-Q

Vernon Locke, Thursday, 29 September 2022 01:21 (sixteen hours ago) link


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