It Sure Got POLLED After The Rain Fell: ILM Artist Poll #110 – ZZ Top

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Fuel Up Yr Hot Rod, Practice Those Hand Gestures, And Get Those Models From MTV On The Phone For This Most Sharp-Dressed Poll In Honor Of That Little Ol’ Band From Texas…ZZ TOP!

MAIN POLL:

  • 20 Track Ballots, all tracks issued as ZZ Top eligible. Scoring as usual: 1:40, 2:36, 3:33, 4:30, 5:28, 6:26, 7:25, 8:24, 9:23, 10:22, 11:21, 12:20, 13:19, 14:18, 15:17, 16:16, 17:15, 18:14, 19:13, 20:12.
Please compose your list w/your #1 at the top and #20 at the bottom. That’s how I read them. Same goes for the sub polls.

NOTE: “Waiting For The Bus” & “Jesus Just Left Chicago” will be counted as a single track, as Radio, God, and Terry Manning intended.

SIDE POLLS:

  • Best Album: Ranked Ballot of 5
All ZZ Top Album Releases--Including Live Sets & Comps--Are Eligible!

  • Side Projects, Pre-History & Guest Shots: Ranked Ballot of 5.
Here we’ll look at The Moving Sidewalks, American Blues, and Billy Gibbons & The BFGs, alongside band members moonlighting efforts. So for once—if you dare-you can vote for Nickelback.

Use This Format:

1. “Reclipse” (Moving Sidewalks) etc.

  • Music Videos: Ranked Ballot of 5
The unlikeliest Kings of MTV, ZZ Top’s signature videos are one of the most enduring parts of their legacy. Pick & Rank Your Five Favorites!
.
When You’re Done:

Send those ballots to ilxZZTopPoll @ gmail.com. Please include your ILM/ILX user name in the subject line.

DEADLINE IS 12:00 AM (CST) ON SEPTEMBER 8th

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 24 August 2021 02:42 (three weeks ago) link

Yessss

pure rim rest (Spottie), Tuesday, 24 August 2021 03:15 (three weeks ago) link

they gotta lotta nice POLLs-ah

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 24 August 2021 04:33 (three weeks ago) link

gonna have to find a slot for rough boy. the video and the track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_4ULKpkLNc

pure rim rest (Spottie), Wednesday, 25 August 2021 00:22 (three weeks ago) link

idk if i'm gonna vote for their version of 25 lighters, but i'm sorely tempted

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 25 August 2021 00:38 (three weeks ago) link

yah that video is pretty cool too for old man rock

pure rim rest (Spottie), Wednesday, 25 August 2021 00:45 (three weeks ago) link

The "I Gotta Get Paid" video is a cool update of the Eliminator vids.

This one's pretty hard to find now: "She's Just Killing Me" with Clooney & Hayek

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x12bfy

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 25 August 2021 02:41 (three weeks ago) link

i don't think i've ever heard the first album before. "shaking your tree" is fun, and the literal shaker that comes in at the end cracked me up

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 25 August 2021 15:22 (three weeks ago) link

Brown Sugar is their best song

pure rim rest (Spottie), Wednesday, 25 August 2021 15:45 (three weeks ago) link

idk if i'm gonna vote for their version of 25 lighters, but i'm sorely tempted

― grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Tuesday, August 24, 2021

I'll vote for it early and often. a scorcher and a statement from an act well into its victory lap years that could have been expected to coast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaIZWjItReI

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Thursday, 26 August 2021 19:26 (three weeks ago) link

Definitely considering 25 Lighters for my ballot. Any other gems in the post-Afterburner era? Not really familiar with those records at all

intheblanks, Sunday, 29 August 2021 04:59 (two weeks ago) link

note: ballots will be weighted according to voters beard length & fullness

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 29 August 2021 06:12 (two weeks ago) link

it’s been said many times, but the fact that they had a drummer named frank beard who didn’t have a beard is probably the best practical joke in rock music history

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Sunday, 29 August 2021 12:00 (two weeks ago) link

"Any other gems in the post-Afterburner era?"

ZZ Top has a couple of really fine mutant slow blues tunes in the late period.

Vincent Price Blues
Made Into A Movie

There are some others...
My Head's In Mississipi
Punk Ass Boyfriend
Tramp (Irma Thomas cover)
What's Up With That
My Mind is Gone
Girl in a T-Shirt

Really can't go wrong with checking out Rhythmeen or Mescalaero. Especially the latter has some of the most damaged dirty sounding guitar sounds you will find.

earlnash, Sunday, 29 August 2021 14:52 (two weeks ago) link

JSBX eat your heart out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXtNRMShJys

earlnash, Sunday, 29 August 2021 14:54 (two weeks ago) link

thanks, looking forward to checking these out!

intheblanks, Sunday, 29 August 2021 23:48 (two weeks ago) link

The only latter day record I've heard in full is Rhythmeen, which Martin Popoff called the best "metal" record of the 90s. I liked "Loaded", sung by Dusty Hill; he still seemed to be enjoying himself. The rest of the record is a slog (unless you're sufficiently entertained by guitar tone).

Halfway there but for you, Monday, 30 August 2021 01:04 (two weeks ago) link

I’m not gonna vote for it, but one of their RCA albums has a song built around an Autechre sample.

My ballot will be heavy on tracks from Tres Hombres, Tejas and Deguello, plus the big Eliminator hits.

but also fuck you (unperson), Monday, 30 August 2021 02:22 (two weeks ago) link

For Your Consideration: "I Wanna Drive You Home" from El Loco, their slinkiest blues.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWvZBpVz2co

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 30 August 2021 02:29 (two weeks ago) link

yesss so good

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 August 2021 03:06 (two weeks ago) link

rough boy will def be in my top 10

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 30 August 2021 03:39 (two weeks ago) link

I don't find Rhythmeen a slog at all, other than the CD being overlong as many from the 90s are. The title track in particular really hits my monkey nerve. (And as noted above, "Vincent Price" is a great "mutant slow blues."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNvHOekLpXo

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Monday, 30 August 2021 12:49 (two weeks ago) link

ah damn, i should really get a ballot together.

rio grande mud is pretty good, it turns out! gibbons' harmonica on "just got paid" is nearly as nasty as his guitar tone

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Thursday, 2 September 2021 16:48 (two weeks ago) link

The contemporary Rolling Stone review of Rio Grande Mud says that the band "sounds more like a British blues outfit than an American group", comparing their tightness and aggression to early Fleetwood Mac and John Mayall.
Who would be the US blues groups that they DIDN'T sound like? Looser, sloppier, like Canned Heat?

Halfway there but for you, Thursday, 2 September 2021 16:58 (two weeks ago) link

Yeah, through the lens of the time Canned Heat would be one, and perhaps also the James Gang and Johnny Winter. From note one ZZ Top had a tightness and bond between the players absent from a lot of power trios and domestic White Blues bands of the day.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 3 September 2021 00:01 (two weeks ago) link

FWIW, I've been told that the waning late '69-early '70 Moving Sidewalks played "Rattlesnake Shake" live, and Gibbons himself has said he came up with "Just Got Paid" while trying to learn "Oh Well".

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 3 September 2021 00:10 (two weeks ago) link

Gibbons himself has said he came up with "Just Got Paid" while trying to learn "Oh Well".

― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, September 2, 2021

omg it never crossed my mind but i can totally hear it now

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 3 September 2021 02:58 (two weeks ago) link

xp to me - was thinking of the harmonica on "mushmouth shoutin'", there isn't any on "just got paid."

both good songs tho!

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Friday, 3 September 2021 15:07 (two weeks ago) link

Coming around on Rio Grande Mud after revisiting it last night, thought it was their weakest 70s record but I definitely underrated some of these tracks

intheblanks, Friday, 3 September 2021 18:14 (two weeks ago) link

There's something very even about it, for better or worse; it may be their most conventional blues album?

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 3 September 2021 18:22 (two weeks ago) link

love the first five tracks and the last three

a talented ‘Rebel’ with Balls (Spottie), Friday, 3 September 2021 18:37 (two weeks ago) link

xp yeah, the sharp, specific lyrical bent and funky song structures hadn't quite arrived yet. still a very good texas blues album plus the usual gibbons brilliance.

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Friday, 3 September 2021 18:46 (two weeks ago) link

^^^ exactly. They're good blues rock records, but they really don't prepare you for the ferocious onslaught of greatness that is Tres Hombres.

Three Rings for the Elven Bishop (Dan Peterson), Friday, 3 September 2021 19:12 (two weeks ago) link

https://www.guitarplayer.com/players/billy-gibbons-tell-the-story-behind-his-1959-les-paul-pearly-gates

Knew I had read before that Clapton playing a Les Paul on the cover of the Blues Breakers record is why Billy Gibbons went looking for one and found the article online.

earlnash, Friday, 3 September 2021 19:54 (two weeks ago) link

Finally found this:
https://apnews.com/article/6f4c28b330d88b957b52ef13e28a5190

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 4 September 2021 18:27 (two weeks ago) link

Thought I’d check out the “Six Pack” mixes, though I haven’t been able to find much. The mix of “It’s Only Love” is kind of cracking me up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neYyK4ETa3g

intheblanks, Sunday, 5 September 2021 02:16 (one week ago) link

woof. picked up that 6 pack on the super cheap when I worked in a mall cd store in 1997. it was p dope to hear the real versions later though.

iirc they weirdly left out Deguello?

caddy lac brougham? (will), Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:05 (one week ago) link

yep

sleeve, Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:06 (one week ago) link

and El Loco

sleeve, Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:07 (one week ago) link

oh duh yeah. I was always operating under the assumption it was everything pre-Eliminator except Deguello. but that actually makes some sense as El Loco was “80s”

caddy lac brougham? (will), Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:11 (one week ago) link

yep totally

sleeve, Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:16 (one week ago) link

this is the first one of these artist polls in a while that I am actually voting in

sleeve, Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:17 (one week ago) link

man I never actually vote but I absolutely Love to read the threads. I think I got really invested in the Van Halen one

caddy lac brougham? (will), Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:25 (one week ago) link

El Loco was on Six Pack, Deguello was indeed skipped

intheblanks, Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:36 (one week ago) link

What a weird product

caddy lac brougham? (will), Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:40 (one week ago) link

Kind of insane that those were the only CD versions of those albums for ~20 years

intheblanks, Sunday, 5 September 2021 03:54 (one week ago) link

I wish I could find that Terry Manning thread from some engineering message board that's been posted here a few times (those links 404 now). He a great story about the Six Pack which I'll paraphrase:

Warner's calls him up at Ardent Studios and asks if he'll oversee a ZZ Top CD reissue project (this is the mid-'80s btw). He's quite proud of his work on those LPs, but is horrified by what they want him to do: Eliminator was such a commercial breakthrough that the label feels that new fans won't be able to get their heads around the old records that don't sound like Eliminator, so they wanted him to work his magic and turn them into carbon copies of the hit album.

Manning tentatively goes along with them on the phone, hoping he can talk some sense into them, perhaps letting him just oversee a straight remaster, but that goes out the window when he learns--because the label wants this under every ZZ Top fan's Xmas tree--he has like a week to remix the albums.

He rightfully tells them where to go, hangs up and thinks that's the end of it. Except then Warner's turns around and calls a junior engineer at a Ardent, who feels this is the project he'll make his name on, so he agrees, takes the tapes into a digital workstation, where he creates a handful of echo, reverb, and re-amping f/x that he then applies liberally to the first five albums and makes the deadline.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 5 September 2021 05:40 (one week ago) link

Thought I found a functional link, but it won't load. It was a real treasure trove, kind of a proto-AMA where Manning goes deep on those 70s records and Eliminator.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 5 September 2021 06:06 (one week ago) link

Like how one of guitar parts on "El Diablo" from Tejas was Gibbons and Manning playing the same guitar AT THE SAME TIME: Manning stood behind Billy and reached around to the strings.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 5 September 2021 06:08 (one week ago) link

El Loco was on Six Pack, Deguello was indeed skipped

― intheblanks

thanks for clarifying, maybe what I'm thinking of is that El Loco wasn't remixed at all?

sleeve, Sunday, 5 September 2021 06:56 (one week ago) link

I posted that one before but it looks like the root site had changed their bulletin board. But I found it on the 'way back machine' and will post details here.

https://web.archive.org/web/20111229052820/http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/45901/0

tenaciousJay wrote on Mon, 14 February 2005 12:05

Terry I wonder if you could comment on the guitar sound in Eliminator. What I always heard it was all Rockman - but was there an amp mixed in as well? And thoughts on the direction of that album as a whole - it certainly was a huge change in sound, even if there were hints of it on earlier albums.

The full story of the making of Eliminator (the politics, the chicannery, the technical aberrations, the high social drama, the exodus, the payback) is one that I cannot tell. Even if I could, there certainly wouldn't be room for it here! It probably won't even make it into "the book" (or the movie). Just don't forget that truth is often stranger than fiction!

However, I will address certain specific musical or technical issues, and I'll begin with your guitar amp question.

THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO ROCKMAN USED ON THIS RECORDING!
Not a little bit, not a tiny bit; NOT ANY. I don't know how these stories get started. Billy may indeed have used Rockman at a later date, after I left the situation, but I did not allow it when I was working with him. He did bring one in to try, but I was not satisfied with the sound, compared to an amplifier.

The amp used, almost exclusively, on Eliminator was a Legend. This was about a 50 watt hybrid unit, employing a tube/valve preamp, and a transistor power amp. This is the amp which has a finished wood case, and a rattan-type cane grill. It has one 12" Celestion speaker. Legend were later bought by, or at least distributed by, Gibson, but they were independent when we started using them. I still have this amp; it is almost new. A couple of years ago I plugged one of the Eliminator guitars into it, just to see...there was the sound!

The guitars were custom built by Dean. Dean were out of Chicago, and were trying to break into the high end (a la Jackson, PRS) market. They were very nice, albeit different, instruments. Subsequently however, they got a contract with Sears to make guitars, so they opted for the big bucks, Korean manufactured, low end market instead. But the ones we used were very nicely made. There were two which we employed. One was somewhat like a cross between a Flying-V and a Moderne shape, very long "ears," and the other was a sort of a warped, pointy Stratocaster-y shape. Both guitars had a single DiMarzio Super Distortion high output pickup, and almost no controls. I don't think there is even a tone control...what would you need one for? They have big, heavy, brass bridge/tail pieces bolted into the body. These guitars were very live, very resonant, and would verge on resonant feedback at all times; they were also very hard to keep in tune because of this. But they were always alive. Billy has the first one mentioned, and he gave me the latter, which I still have.

The guitar was recorded with basically only one setup; one amp (Legend), one speaker (12"), one guitar (Deans, the two were almost exactly the same), one mic (AKG 414B-ULS, I still have it) in one position (about 5" from the cone, placed at a slight angle off axis), one mic pre (the SpectraSonics console). 98% of ALL guitar on this album, whether lead or rhythm was done this way. Any variations were from the player himself, who, remember, did not even have a tone control. That's how good Billy was back then. We did use very briefly a small amp by Ross, but we didn't like it much, and I think only a tiny part or two was kept from this, if any.

The rhythm guitars were done in a precursor-to-Protools style. Short phrases were played, and then double tracked, onto one set of tracks, and then the chord change/next phrase was played on a second set of tracks. This allowed a seamless transition between changes; since the Deans were so close to feedback at all times (acoustically, through the fairly loud JBL monitors), we couldn't even lift the fingers to change chords! Then I would trim the edges of each section by punching in and out to silence at the beginnings and ends of the phrases (somewhat analogous to "trimming the region" today). This method also "eliminated" to a degree the loud harmonic squeaks between chord changes. The punch in/out points, if done exactly perfectly, made for a primitive cross fade of probably 10-20 ms, and ended up sounding very different as rhythm guitar, sort of like a big train rolling down a track, almost out of control; without knowing how it was done, one wouldn't really realise why it was different.

For the leads, as always, there was a lot of punching done.

The bass was mostly played either by Billy or by me, and was either a bass instrument, or a Moog Source (the Source was a Mini Moog [rhymes with 'Vouge'] analogue synth with digitally controlled parameters...I still have this, too). Synth chords were played on a Memory Moog (polyphonic Mini).

Billy sang great, different vocals, as usual, and the harmonies were done either by Jimmy Jamison or by me.

There are a MILLION more things which could be told about this distinctive album, but as mentioned, most of it is probably better left unsaid. But one interesting thing, at least to me, was the recording of "Legs." We had tried it a couple of ways unsuccessfully at Ardent, so I decided to try a new approach. I had a 24 track studio in my attic at home, so I took Billy's lead guitar and vocal home on a 1/2" two track L/R ("samples"). I recut the entire track myself, and then hand flew in Billy's parts onto the track. This meant careful timing of the play button on my MCI 1/2", for each and every phrase, as after a few seconds, they would drift out of sync. I mixed it there through my Soundcraft 1200 console (these were also the mic pre's) onto the MCI 1/2". The multitrack was also the Soundcraft 2" machine, which I really loved. Then I did a totally different version, which became the long "dance mix" later released to clubs, and it is now included in the new box set. Later, I saw a review of this dance version credited, to Jellybean Benitez ...go figure!

Anyway, that's a lot about Eliminator for now. Thanks for your interest!

Terry

compasspnt
Messages: 16267
Registered: December 2004
Location: Compass Point Studios, Na...
Diamond Member

strawberrius wrote on Tue, 15 February 2005 11:17

terry -

are u saying you played the drums on LEGS? 1 @ a time O.D. style? or a kit?
that is insane - whenever i work with drummers, there is a fill that has become known as the "zz topper" which is any snare fill that ends with the last 2 16th notes of a bar (all over LEGS).

if this is true, then u r the creator of the famous "zz topper" fill. and although this is not a revolutionary drum fill, it has been mentioned by name in just about every rock session i have done in the last 18 years.

kudos!!!!

-john fields

Hi John,

Long time, no answer...sorry!

Well, I guess it can now be told, as long as you promise not to pass it on, but yes, I played the drums on "Legs," and in fact, almost the whole album. As mentioned, this song was recorded in my attic, except for Billy's lead guitar and vocal, which came from a previous studio version which was unsatisfactory. (Oh, if I could tell the whole, real story! Maybe someday...)

The drums were a combination of things. There was programming, on my Oberheim drum machine, and then a multitude of samples triggered in over the snare as well, using an AMS DMX, and very carefully manually trimming the input volume to catch every beat properly. The hat was a sound from the Oberheim mixed with some sampled things and some white noise, then gated and triggered from an arpeggiated spike. Then I one-at-a-time overdubbed certain other drums, some toms, and definitely cymbals. On some of the tracks of the album, I added to the tom sounds with a Simmons electronic kit, just barely mixed under the real ones, for tom 'fatness.' For the rest of the music track, a lot of it was programmed (step programming!) in my MemoryMoog. There was just barely enough memory in it to get a few things, then I'd have to re-program and punch in. I remember on one arpeg-16th sound, there was enough memory to do the whole song, but not to add any chord changes. So I would use a cassette case to hold down the tonic key (wedged in place using the F# black key as a 'holder') and then make the temperament changes with the detuning wheel. Not very easy, with the high technology available back then, but it forced you to be creative! I had to set the amount of detune for one change, then record the two passages, then re-set it for another change, start from the beginning every time, and punch in on the right spot. It took forever! The bass I played manually on a bass instrument, then doubled it in the manner mentioned above with the Moog. The rhythm guitar I played normally with a guitar, run into a Marshall head, then into my Harbinger speaker-booth-box (Ronny Montrose design out of SF). The pads and angel voices came from a Yamaha DX-9...I didn't want to spring for the whole cost of a '7'! The background vocals were done by me and Jimmy Jamison (who is now lead singer for Survivor, and can be seen on a new ad on TV, I think for Gateway or something like that). Jimmy did a lot of great BV's for me over the years. He can sound like whomever you put him with!

I mixed "Legs" from my Soundcraft 2" 24 track, through my Soundcraft 1200 console, onto my MCI 1/2" two track...I still have and use that 2 track today. Works like a hay baler, but actually records well...it's the tranformerless electronics version. The Soundcraft stuff I sold to Sun Studios, who put it into the famous old building. U2 recorded "Angel of Harlem" on it!

As for the drum fill, I would hate to take any credit as an inventor of a fill! Billy and I worked out most of the fills together...we were very into what type of fills would work in what places. We were expecially fond of the one you mention, and also were trying to find places where a fill could extend into the first couple of beats of the next bar, after a normal fill would have ended. I don't remember if we actually executed this or not...I'll have to listen to the whole Eliminator album now, just to see!

Anyway, that's some of the story. Thanks for your interest!

Regards,

Terry

compasspnt
Messages: 16267
Registered: December 2004
Location: Compass Point Studios, Na...
Diamond Member

maxim wrote on Fri, 01 April 2005 21:52

... I'm trying to work out why exactly this process often involves replacing the original drummer...

it's so common, it's become an archetypal rock'n'roll story

is it to do with the difference between live playing and recorded drums

after all, it doesn't seem to happen (as much) with other instruments...

is "hit" drumming just about hitting the kick and snare hard on the alternate beats, and everything else is detracting from that feel?

i don't want to make this personal, but instead talk about it in a general production philosophy manner

could you elaborate on this phenomenon?

I think it is surely obvious that there is a big difference between professional session musicians and the average live band player. There is no substitute for crisp, well played parts when it comes to putting together a production. However, sometimes session players can sound "the same," and perhaps can lose the "trashy edge" that some bands have.

It seems that the drums are the most critical in this regard. Drums are the most difficult to "punch in" parts, and they need, in most cases, to be completed before other overdubbing can commence. For some reason, it does seem harder to make an average drummer come up to "pro record" level than the other instrumentation. In almost all cases, the singer is the one that cannot be replaced, so you have a given there. Guitars and basses and keys can be punched and punched, even in tiny segments, until they are more acceptable.

The standard way to get around the drum thing has been, short of replacing with a pro or using a machine, to record many takes and edit between them (aka "Metallica Syndrome"). But even with this, and perhaps sample replacement, there is still some hard to define difference that a studio pro "just knows" how to make.

Having said all of this, I will make it clear that my preference is always to use the actual players, to not edit between takes extensively, to maintain the best "live" feel the band can perform, in general to not resort to trickery. But sometimes you do what you have to to get the best record.

Also I will reiterate that this is not referring to Frank, ZZ's drummer. I stated before that I will not talk about certain aspects of the ZZ recordings, out of respect for the band and management. Frank did a marvelous job on many records, and this reflects upon him as a great drummer.

earlnash, Sunday, 5 September 2021 12:26 (one week ago) link

Like how one of guitar parts on "El Diablo" from Tejas was Gibbons and Manning playing the same guitar AT THE SAME TIME: Manning stood behind Billy and reached around to the strings.

― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, September 5, 2021 1:08 AM (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

that’s amazing. the song was already gonna be high on my ballot

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Sunday, 5 September 2021 13:06 (one week ago) link

Wait, Terry … Manning? Ardent? TIL

Gwar ina Babyon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 5 September 2021 13:23 (one week ago) link

Terry Manning working with them at Ardent starting with parts of Tres Hombres and up through Recycler in '90.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Sunday, 5 September 2021 17:02 (one week ago) link

The Manning interview brings up a question I have—are there any outside players on their records? In their 70s work, at least, they credit the three band members for everything. I mean, maybe they did play the horns on Deguello, it’s not like those parts sound incredibly complicated or anything. But they also have their attribution controversies around Eliminator and Thunderbird, which makes me wonder.

intheblanks, Sunday, 5 September 2021 21:54 (one week ago) link

Sure. Different Light.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 5 September 2021 22:02 (one week ago) link

lol wrong thread

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 5 September 2021 22:02 (one week ago) link

Manning seems like the raddest dude. I don’t know that much about him other than his insane resume and that one record he did in ‘70 for Stax (or one of their subsidiaries) that’s p great iirc

caddy lac brougham? (will), Sunday, 5 September 2021 22:05 (one week ago) link

I would think probably not a whole lot of extra musicians on ZZ Top records although they are not as secretive about things like they were when Bill Ham was alive. There are some outside writers credited through their discography on some songs. I believe what Manning was not going to mention was that Frank Beard was having some chemical issues around the time Eliminator was made, which I am guessing is partly why he was not involved around the recording. This gets touched upon in the documentary that was released a while back and in some late articles.

earlnash, Sunday, 5 September 2021 22:06 (one week ago) link

I've mentioned in other ZZ Top threads that they famously taught themselves to play other instruments because of their "no guests" policy. They played the horns on Degüello themselves, as well as the harmonica on various records and even the violin on Tejas.

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 5 September 2021 23:37 (one week ago) link

Violin? That's a fiddle, son!

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 6 September 2021 00:18 (one week ago) link

Ballot submitted.

but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 00:38 (one week ago) link

Ballot sent!

Gavin, Leeds, Tuesday, 7 September 2021 08:42 (one week ago) link

how do we feel about mixed ballots?

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 20:47 (one week ago) link

"Mixed" as in what?

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 20:51 (one week ago) link

part ranked, part unranked

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 20:54 (one week ago) link

If you really want to do that, I'll find a way to plug it in.

I generally prefer normal rankings so I just popped them in the spreadsheet.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 21:08 (one week ago) link

RN, I have four ballots (haven't done mine yet). Originally I was going to close on Wednesday or Thursday, but I'll keep this going through the weekend if y'all need the time.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 21:10 (one week ago) link

that would be great

a talented ‘Rebel’ with Balls (Spottie), Tuesday, 7 September 2021 21:18 (one week ago) link

Voted!

Elvis Telecom, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 01:39 (one week ago) link

voted!

a how how how

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 02:05 (one week ago) link

if you can keep it going through the weekend, I should be able to rank the whole ballot and save a headache!

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 8 September 2021 03:43 (one week ago) link

Just voted, thanks!

intheblanks, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 04:05 (one week ago) link

ZZ Tops 70s albums are just ridiculously good.

earlnash, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 04:14 (one week ago) link

otm

intheblanks, Wednesday, 8 September 2021 12:30 (one week ago) link

RN, I have four ballots (haven't done mine yet). Originally I was going to close on Wednesday or Thursday, but I'll keep this going through the weekend if y'all need the time.

― Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, September 7, 2021

well i opened this thread to apologize for not getting a ballot in, but if the weekend's open i might make it. somewhat dependent on an irl situation, but at least i have a shot.

Larry Elleison (rogermexico.), Friday, 10 September 2021 04:27 (one week ago) link

yes plz keep it going til tomorrow if u can

sleeve, Friday, 10 September 2021 15:35 (one week ago) link

just submitted!

grove street (party) direction (voodoo chili), Friday, 10 September 2021 15:57 (one week ago) link

yes plz keep it going til tomorrow if u can

― sleeve, Friday, September 10, 2021 8:35 AM (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

he said he's going through the weekend so i take that as Sunday 11:59 pm?

a talented ‘Rebel’ with Balls (Spottie), Friday, 10 September 2021 16:03 (one week ago) link

I'll keep it open through at least Monday, so I'd encourage everyone interested to make it a ZZ Top Weekend!

10 ballots so far, 11 if you count my own impending one.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 10 September 2021 16:18 (one week ago) link

Still sitting at 11 Ballots. Seeing as I'm dealing with both TS Nicholas and (depending on how that turns out) some work stuff later this week, POLLS WILL BE OPEN UNTIL FRIDAY (Or Next Monday)!

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AngryFancyHarpseal-size_restricted.gif

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 13 September 2021 22:37 (five days ago) link

Gotta say that the more I listen, the more impressed I am by the production on their 70s work (tres hombres and side 2 of fandango in particular). So clear and punchy! My ears are very nonprofessional but I can't believe how good those records sound.

intheblanks, Tuesday, 14 September 2021 00:28 (four days ago) link

Trying out Mescalero for the first time, and am reminded of the now-forgotten controversy surrounding its release: RCA, seriously regretting the $$$ they threw at the band in the early '90s for one Platinum LP (out of three shots), rejected the album, and strongly suggested they follow Santana's example & bring in a bunch of young stars for duets/new songs. Obviously this didn't happen, temporarily sparing us the Kid Rock and Nickleback collabs.

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 14 September 2021 01:39 (four days ago) link

Wow at lol (self?)censorship on "What Would You Do?"

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 14 September 2021 01:49 (four days ago) link

Still sitting at 11 ballots. Please make it a ZZ Top Weekend, y'all!

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 17 September 2021 22:12 (yesterday) link

duly noted, thanks

sleeve, Friday, 17 September 2021 22:27 (yesterday) link


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