2021 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees POLL

My around the way dude

LL absolutely should be in. So should Salt-N-Pepa, imo

That'd be a good choice too. But, in keeping with my idea that this singles/albums bias exists, I bet Lauryn Hill goes in first.

I love Salt N Pepa, and am not arguing against them being in, but LL is at least 9x better than them as a decision-making musician and writer, and 11x better a rapper than either of them.

(The one time I saw him, m/l past the point when he still dropped a great single every two years just to prove he still had it, he had Bobcat AND Cut Creator as DJs. Cheryl & Sandy can't even treat one Spinderella well enough that their firings aren't traumatic.)

Question: Well, And I have to tell you some bad music related news. The New York Dolls did not get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame –

Mayor; That’s wrong. I want to condemn them for that, Jillian. I am condemning them.

Question: It's wrong. These bands – they're considered alt-rock bands, would not have existed without the New York Dolls. It's just wrong. It's a travesty and I'm not even a big Dolls fan anyway.

Mayor: You and I are in total agreement. I'm outraged. I'm going to storm off the set right now in outrage.

Question: You're not going to storm off with all that Shake Shack stuff around?

Mayor: No, I'm actually – I would take it with me, that's it.

https://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/358-21/transcript-mayor-de-blasio-holds-media-availability

!

I thought you might have made that up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbEigfx3lQ4

LL was in the dorm room with Rick Rubin, of course he should be in.

I thought you might have made that up.

haha the real question is how i found it. (was googling ny dolls news to see if johansen made a statement about not getting in. if he did i couldn't find it.)

Didn't you see the Dolls in their red leather days? Maybe it was even on this thread I read that, maybe recently.

My favorite weird bit of Dolls trivia is Syl and Johnny, I think, attending Quintano's School for Young Professionals.
http://streetsyoucrossed.blogspot.com/2007/10/few-doll-houses.html

Sorry, Syl and Billy, I guess.

Or maybe all three.

Think there was a Spin article about it. There's also this

Or this

Didn't you see the Dolls in their red leather days? Maybe it was even on this thread I read that, maybe recently.

yes i saw them at a club in roslyn ny called "my father's place." i'm guessing it was one of the february '75 shows listed here:

https://www.fromthearchives.com/nyd/chronology.html

it was a midnight show. i was...geez...sixteen?!?! i remember my high school band was gigging that evening, probably a sweet 16 party. the drummer had arranged for his older brother to chaperone us to the club later that evening. (the guitarist was SUPER pissed at us for breaking down early so we could catch the dolls. all forgiven now though -- we're still in touch.) it was actually my first time inside a nightclub. rules about carding were more lax in those days, and i guess we promised we wouldn't be drinking.

of course it was so long ago i don't remember everything. attendance was sparse. i do remember them doing a bunch of songs i didn't know, including teenage news (!!) and a JT number that was probably "downtown." sadly peter jordan was filling in for arthur that night so i didn't actually see the full complement.

i remember the conversation with my friend's brother on the drive home. me: "well they never actually claimed they could play their instruments." my friend's brother: "well i'm glad they didn't claim THAT!"

they were fabulous. i wish i'd seen them earlier though. in retrospect it was clear they were on a downward trajectory as a band.

Cool story! I never went to that place, but certainly heard all about it on WLIR.

MFP was a nice place. a converted bowling alley. when i first started going it actually had tables and waitress service. the closest equivalent would probably be the bottom line. once i was actually old enough to get in, i went there a bunch of times and saw some really nice shows. (television, gang of 4/buzzcocks, cpt beefheart, xtc, steel pulse, grandmaster flash, go-gos, iggy, nrbq, patti, jonathan richman, blasters, hunter/ronson, johansen, verlaine, muddy waters, p furs..seems ridiculous or like bragging but hey those were the club acts of the time.) one of the owners still makes a go of it, booking acts into a small room at a fancy roslyn hotel. he calls it my father's place, but it's a supper club with prices that are not for the faint of heart.

i am outraged, absolutely outraged, even more outraged than bill de blasio is outraged about the new york dolls, that you would write all that about my father's place and not mention mr. billy joel. saddened, really. mostly, i am just sad.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-a-jewish-kid-from-the-burbs-helped-launch-springsteen-and-make-music-history/

Who’ll get in first: NY Dolls, Toy Dolls or Goo Goo Dolls?

my money is on Dolly Dots

Goo Goo Dolls deserve to go to the Rock 'n Roll pit of hell for their Dizzy Up the Girl-beyond career and pretending they weren't a good Replacements replacement anymore

Dali's Car.

Although I'm glad Rundgren got in, it occurred to me that it's weird to see him go in before the New York Dolls. Tried to think of an analogy, and the closest I could come up with--far from perfect--would be if Peter & Gordon had gone in before Linda Ronstadt.

Of his production clients, Patti Smith, Laura Nyro, Cheap Trick and Hall & Oates got into the hall before him, and Grand Funk Railroad, Meat Loaf and the Hello People will follow him.

haha hope you are well, cuz! xxxxxxxpost

sadly i never saw mr. joel at mfp. he was probably already a star by the time i started going there regularly. i think the only place i ever saw him post-hassles was when he guested at that garth brooks show, way off in the distance in central park. i've seen his old mates in that lords of 52nd st thing.

that thing in the article about mfp being shut for parking violations is true enough but also total bs. the village of old roslyn briefly became a youth hangout in the 80s, with multiple clubs (u.s. blues! the little club!) and some spillover onto the once-sleepy historic streets. the town had enough, and started forbidding parking under the big viaduct, where the only enemy had been pigeon shit. my father's place itself had a tiny lot. today old roslyn is again a sleepy town, with no youths and no clubs.

:)

i was at that garth brooks show too, way way way off in the distance. it probably would have been a $12 cab fare from where we were sitting to the stage.

Sonic Youth have never even been on the ballot? As a part-time fan who ranks a handful of songs among my favorite ever, that is truly ridiculous. It doesn't even make sense within the strictures of Rolling Stone--they are very much a part of "rock tradition" by now.

I agree, it’s surprising (as a non-fan). They seem to fit the profile

As a longtime fan, this doesn't surprise me much at all. They're not very famous, compared to most of these artists. I don't really know what being part of "rock tradition" means, in this context? I don't think they've added many radio classics or standards for covers or that we're seeing loads of young bands playing in F#F#GGAA...?

They’re critical faves who have been influential (like the Stooges, Patti Smith, Velvets, Kraftwerk…).

Daydream Nation is #171 on their most recent Top 500 (and was #45 on their '80s list--even by 1990, they had been canonized), Goo is #358; in the most recent RS guide, Daydream Nation and Sister were given five stars. Skimmed through their reviews page on RS--most albums got four stars on publication, a few three-and-a-half:

https://www.rollingstone.com/results/#?q=sonic%20youth%20album%20reviews

The fact that they tune their guitars differently seems irrelevant to me; they're as much of a fit as Frank Zappa.

They're not very famous, compared to most of these artists.

Fame has different meanings--there's Hall & Oates/Go-Go's fame (for a few years, they sold a lot of records), then there's a much deeper kind of fame, the Velvet Underground/Jean-Luc Godard kind of fame. (Except for maybe a brief moment in the mid-late '60s, Godard's films have been seen by few people.) I'm not saying Sonic Youth sit right alongside the VU and Godard, but that is the direction in which they're headed over time.

Haha, I forgot that the Stooges and Patti Smith were in tbh.

Definitely don't deny that Sonic Youth were critical favourites in the late 80s and 90s. Most of the inductees from the last few years have been big sellers (Rundgren and the Zombies seem closest to being cult acts and even they had some hits) but SY definitely fit in alongside artists like the VU and Zappa.
xp

And if Fela Kuti can at least get on a ballot…

The more shocking thing to me is they haven't been nominated. I would have expected three or four unsuccessful nominations, then they get in. When I did this poll 12 years ago (my first ILX poll), they dominated. (None of the runners-up are in either...)

The Bert Blyleven Poll

Fela Kuti was hugely popular and layperson-level famous, though, right, just not on this continent?

(I do agree that Sonic Youth could fit on grounds of critical acclaim or innovation tbc, although my suspicion is the people who care most about those things wrt Sonic Youth may care less about the RRHOF.)

Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r) at 7:05 30 May 21

As a longtime fan, this doesn't surprise me much at all. They're not very famous, compared to most of these artists. I don't really know what being part of "rock tradition" means, in this context? Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r) at 7:05 30 May 21

As a longtime fan, this doesn't surprise me much at all. They're not very famous, compared to most of these artists. I don't really know what being part of "rock tradition" means, in this context? I don't think they've added many radio classics or standards for covers or that we're seeing loads of young bands playing in F#F#GGAA...? in F#F#GGAA...?


I mean.... there's tons of underground rock that's either directly or indirectly influenced by them, that balance of dissonance and melody is so baked in (SY and Mission of Burma), focusing on tuning seems weird

also what's true about this:
Sequel to Sadness (Sund4r) at 7:05 30 May 21

I don't think they've added many radio classics or standards for covers or that we're seeing loads of young bands playing

that isn't true about Zappa?

just not on this continent?

I always took the RRHOF to be pretty UCAN-centric, no?

I just picked that tuning as a random example. I don't hear that much of their influence in the kind of artists that I was thinking RRHOF voters would be concerned with but, yeah, I conceded that I wasn't thinking about artists like the VU and Zappa being included, as well as Tina Turner and the Foo Fighters. I do agree they fit alongside those.xp

Thurston Moore, in his own way, also kind of fits in with the Dave Grohl elder statesman/ambassador idea (Henry Rollins, too, although I'm less enthusiastic about him). Moore has always been a cheerleader for bands he likes, turns up in numerous documentaries, is kind of affable and unthreatening, etc. And if they do start to shift some of their focus towards women, Kim Gordon has to be at or near the front of that line.

I honestly have no investment in them being inducted in the RRHOF and it's not something I ever hear from SY fans.

Iron Maiden otoh

Fela Kuti was hugely popular and layperson-level famous, though, right, just not on this continent?

No, but don't discount the power of having a hit jukebox musical based on your work.

(xpost) No, I don't think their longtime fans would care, though I suspect some would get a kick out of the incongruity--like hearing that Apple commercial with Delta 5 right now. I'll be honest: my guess is that Moore very much wants to get in. (I haven't read Kim Gordon's book, so I don't know about her--probably not.)

I don’t get why fans of any band wouldn’t think it was at least cool if they got in.

bc the RRHOF is a ridiculous and meaningless institution?