2021 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees POLL

Too bad they didn't put Coleman in while he was still alive (died 2015). I don't know if Sonny Rollins is in, but if not, he should be a priority. One thing that's become an issue with the baseball HOF is when they induct someone literally months after they die--happened with Ron Santo, and it may happen soon with Dick Allen. As you wrote above, no matter how much we carp and nitpick about this thing--and no matter how much half the people in there might ridicule it--I think it really does mean a lot to some of the early performers, particularly, as an example, artists like the Shirelles, who got cheated out money, who were ignored for decades as "serious artists," and then at least got this one honor. (And actually I don't know if all the Shirelles were alive when they were inducted, if any.)

Re: the Shirelles, three of the four members were actually there - Addie "Micki" Harris had already passed away but her husband accepted on her behalf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHP-2CSXqPA

A lot of the induction and acceptance speeches are officially online. The famously bad ones may not be, but you can find the good ones, like the Beatles (George is very eloquent in his acceptance) and the Stones (Townshend inducts them and roasts them). Trent Reznor slagged the HOF for a long time, but obviously he changed his mind and you can see how disappointed he is with his Zoom acceptance due to the pandemic - as he mentions, he was hoping to reunite all past and present members on stage and just "have a moment." (Imagine if they all performed together, that would've been something.)

I'm not 100% sure I'd induct Sonny Rollins in the HOF. He's recorded wonderful solos on both record...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUZ77IZxTME

and stage...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCaD6GAQmjA

But outside of that, I'm not sure he's had a profound influence or a deeper connection with rock - those examples feel more like outliers. Maybe someone can prove me wrong, I'd love to be, but I think any role he has in rock history is more the result of residual influence, which is inevitable of any artist of his stature. He's definitely a serious contender for jazz's greater tenor saxophonist - a highly subjective argument, but objectively speaking he's in a rarefied group.

Sun Ra should be in.

Also Stockhausen

J/k, I'm fine with them limiting it to famous rock artists.

Are they considered an authority? Mostly, is there a jump in sales when an artist is included in the HOF?

It varies, but there can be, yes.

https://www.spin.com/2020/11/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-financial-impact-artists/

Which reminds me, Ornette Coleman deserves to be inducted as an influence. (Maybe it's time to ditch the adjective "early.".

Stones-sequel sure why not but that autocorrected from Stones-esque

Johann Sebastian Bach: early influencer

Ha, I mentioned that above. He has been outright quoted by more than one rock band.

The Seikilos epitaph is the OG rock song imo.

Can't get much more rock than something that is literally carved into stone

lol, indeed. :)

The carpe diem-themed lyrics are also rock 'n' roll af:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBpSxRGudNE

One thing I don't get at all: electing Muddy Waters to the main hall (good) but putting Howlin' Wolf in as an "early influence" instead. They're born within three years of each other; according to Wikipedia, their careers both go back to the '30s; their first albums on Chess came out within a year of each other. I get Robert Johnson as an early influence, but my guess is, besides the close parallel to Waters, Howlin' Wolf has been covered by just as many if not more rock bands.

Friends were making fun of me a while back when they discovered I had my Howlin' Wolf albums filed in the 'W' section. "You realize his surname isn't 'Wolf,' right?"

I also would’ve put them under ‘W’ – it’s his stage name, right? (Do your friends put Muddy Waters under ‘M’? Iggy Pop under ‘I’?)

Do they put him under "H" or "B"? (I think I do put him under "H" but it seems questionable now.)

I think of Pop as made-up surname, but a surname nonetheless; I think Howlin' Wolf is meant more as a two-word phrase? Muddy Waters (who I've also had in the W's for years) seems more like Howlin' Wolf, a phrase. I don't know. Nor am I sure if Mama Cass should go in the 'M' or the 'E' section.

Once I decide, I'm going to start classifying each letter into "rock and roll" and "early influence" sub-sections.

There’s a joke here: “Where do you put Meat Loaf records?” “Oh, that one’s easy—nowhere, I don’t own any.”

Yeah, I think I always just thought of "Meat Loaf" and "Howlin Wolf" as two-word phrases as opposed to first name/surname so classified them by the 1st letter but am not sure that's defensible.

I was curious as whether the NY Times referred to him as Mr. Loaf. They don't.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/arts/meatloaf-bat-out-of-hell.html

my rule is if its a legal first & last name, its filed under surname. if theres any nickname or alteration whatsoever, it goes under first letter. anything else gets too confusing for me. screaming jay hawkins under s, muddy waters under m, meat loaf in the trash

I can see it both ways—but the fact that Wolf and Waters could be “normal” last names at least makes an argument for treating them that way, while “Loaf” doesn’t.

What is the distinction there?

Just that "Waters" and "Wolf" exist as Anglo-Saxon last names?

I was kidding about the Times--Meatloaf's just one word, you can't split it up. It'd by like filing Blowfly in the 'F' section.

I'm wrong! It is two words. My joke is salvaged.

I thought he does spell it as 2 capitalized words?xp ah

xxp Anglo-Saxon(?) They’re just not uncommon surnames in the US. No one is named “Loaf.”

Ha: https://www.ancestry.ca/name-origin?surname=loaf&geo_a=r&geo_s=us&geo_t=ca&geo_v=2.0.0&_ga=2.219026577.921939885.1613843597-1391661623.1613843597&o_iid=41015&o_lid=41015&o_sch=Web+Property

To me, it makes more sense to look at the first names. Does Howlin' make sense as a stand-alone name without Wolf? Did people actually address him as Howlin'?

Muddy Waters is also a two-word phrase, of course, but it's easier to imagine Muddy (rhymes with Buddy) as a stand-alone name.

From an interview:

"All of a sudden I became Muddy Waters. You know? Just overnight. People started to speakin', hollerin' across the streets at me. When they used to hardly say good morning, you know. I could walk down the street--'Hey, Muddy! Hey, Muddy! There go Muddy!"

I'm almost positive my entire rationale for any of this traces to the first (red) Rolling Stone Record Guide: they have both Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters filed under 'W' in their blues section. Elsewhere, Captain Beefheart is filed under 'B', the Captain & Tennille under 'C', Meat Loaf and Mama Cass under 'M'. They seem not to have given inconsistencies a great deal of thought.

Captain & Tennille is easy, of course that’s under “C.” I can see why Beefheart would be a toss-up, though I would probably also use “B.”

Howlin' Wolf under 'H', Captain Beefheart under 'C', because they are titles, not names.
Muddy Waters under 'W', Iggy Pop under 'P', because they are names, even though they are pseudonyms.
Cat Stevens under 'S', even though everyone called him Steve in the 70s.

Dr. John under 'D', also a title rather than a name.

Iggy and the Stooges under 'I', Alice Cooper 1969-1974 under 'A', because they are group names.

So you separate Raw Power from the other Stooges records?

Fwiw I always file Bob Dylan under W because his real name is Lucky Wilbury.

Yes, and separate from the Iggy Pop solo records too.

Where do you guys file MC / DJ ______ artists?

The only one I own is DJ Shadow, under 'D', although I can see how someone with a lot would use a different filing system.

Howlin' Wolf was Howlin' Wolf, this is canon

https://i.imgur.com/Yfek1IB.jpeg

TS: Miles vs (Col)trane

where the fuck is count basie

for that matter where the fuck is Count Bass D?

I hate every count I see from Count Base D to Count Base E

Pumpkins, Smashing

Smiling politely, Homer Simpson