2021 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Nominees POLL

That's quite a stacked field for Foo Fighters, Iron Maiden, New York Dolls, Rage Against the Machine and, oh why not, Todd Rundgren to run roughshod over.

no idea what 'rnr' means for the RNRHOF anymore, but simply going on age, todd, dionne, and carole king should def be in there.

I'm shocked Carole King isn't in already

Iron Maiden might get in just because they like to have "stand ins" for genres they aren't much interested in, Maiden could stand in for all the metal bands that existed between Black Sabbath and Metallica

really really shocked Tina Turner isn't in, weird

Blue Oyster Cult is never getting in

With or without Rufus, this is now Chaka Khan's 7th nomination. (Chic has had 11 fruitless tries, and haven't been nominated since 2017.)

just fill the ballot with Dionne Warwick and Chaka.

Ideal ballot:

Kate Bush
Devo
Chaka Khan
Carole King
Fela Kuti
Tina Turner
Dionne Warwick

Yesterday was Carole King's birthday! She's definitely in as a writer. Surprised Tina and Dionne and Chaka are not in yet. The others, I guess maybe less shocked, though of course most are more than "worthy."

She's definitely in as a writer.

ah okay that makes sense, they usually do a good job of honoring all the old school songwriter types

I wouldn't have a problem with any of these getting in. Except Foo Fighters, but it's inevitable might as well get it over with. Maybe except Todd Rundgren who I have a semi irrational dislike of.

Surprised about Carole King, too. I usually look at this subjectively and objectively, but I'd be fine with any or all of these: Jay Z, Carole King, LL Cool J, New York Dolls, Todd Rundgren, Tina Turner, Dionne Warwick. (If Turner is already in with her abusive husband, I'm not sure she needs to go in on her own--although, in that special circumstance, it's the preferable of the two.) I don't know Fela Kuti's music at all.

It's great!

Agreed. Still, that this is Fela's first nod feels like a big admission of "oops."

voted for jay

If Carole King's already in as a writer, there's no reason to vote her in as a performer except that everybody now living's mom owned a copy of Tapestry.

I'll vote for Devo, Iron Maiden (best live act in metal), Fela, LL Cool J, and Tina Turner. Fuck the New York Dolls and Todd Rundgren forever.

everybody now living's gay uncle, too

My mom never actually owned a copy of Tapestry, but when I was a little kid she used to listen to a radio station with a morning DJ named "the Mellow Mother," so I'm pretty sure I've heard the whole album.

i think i've posted enough bullshit on ilm that i deserve to vote in this

Are we voting for who we like best, who is most likely to get in, or who we feel is most deserving of admission?

Would say 1 > 3 > 2 out of those options

The Foo Fighters are almost certain to get in but I'm sure not voting for them.

burn this shit down. abominable institution

(Chic has had 11 fruitless tries, and haven't been nominated since 2017.)

Whoa, I could have sworn they got in at some point in the last few years but I guess not.

Most deserving, I'd say Carole King, but as a writer/performer, not just as a performer. (They should have just put her in for both the first time.)

For whose music means the most to me, it'd be Dionne Warwick, the New York Dolls, and Todd Rundgren, with the last two concentrated in a very tiny window of two or three years.

Foo Fighters are the Jack Morris of this HoF if they get in

you can search inductees here for reference

https://www.rockhall.com/inductees/a-z

In the end, it had to be Iron Maiden.

at least half of these are great but are we voting for the best or the most appropriate inductee (which may be the same or not but I have no idea how to judge- wtf does rock and roll mean?)

my fake ballot (idk what the limit is)
Jay
Fela
Rage
Devo
Dolls
Bush

iron maiden, judas priest, thin lizzy, etc. should have been inducted years ago

The limit is five (I was a voter the last few years; I expect to get a ballot this year).

the funny thing to me is non-metal people probably view Iron Maiden as derisively as Night Ranger. I used to tell people I was going to see Iron Maiden and they'd either make Bill and Ted joekz or go "omg Iron Maiden, they're still around? I remember them", like it was me going to Pete's Tractor Pull with 5 other fans to see "The Iron Maiden experience featuring Bruce D".

I don't think a lot of layfolk realize the vitality they still have in 2021 (which is awesome and amazing). i was kind of amazed a few years ago when I saw them at Amalie Arena and the 20,000+ seat arena was pretty much FULL. even Priest can't do those numbers these days (they do festivals and House of Blues-sized venues), and Slayer had a lot of empties when I saw them at their last tour (which was an arena tour).

xpost when u wrote Bush I thought you meant Gavin Rossdale jfc

Jack Morris is a good analogy (the Foo Fighters: winningest band of the '90s), except they don't even have a Game 7 on their resume. Harold Baines, maybe, except I like Harold Baines. I don't know if there's such a blatant long-term mediocrity that works as an analogy.

(xxpost my previous post was US centric so keep that in mind, but the RR HOF is US centric so *shrug*)

Todd Rundgren should be in as a producer alone, if he isn't already, both for his solo stuff but also for a ton of hit or influential stuff: Badfinger ("Baby Blue"!), the Band, New York Dolls, Meat Loaf, Psychedelic Furs, XTC, Patti Smith ("Dancing Barefoot"!), etc.

This piece by SF writer John Scalzi about seeing Iron Maiden live in 2019 captures their appeal better than anything I've ever read. Metal journalists are too close to the screen to see clearly, and as Neanderthal says, non-metal writers don't give a fuck. But Maiden are incredible live. Too bad there are no concerts anymore...

foo fighters won't win this poll but if they get in i won't be surprised. if they get in and turner and/or warwick don't I'll be violently angry

xpost when u wrote Bush I thought you meant Gavin Rossdale jfc

― he said that you son of a bitch (Neanderthal), Wednesday, February 10, 2021 9:57 AM (ten minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

i walk from my machine
to make a deal with god

No one else voting for Fela?

Jack Morris is a good analogy (the Foo Fighters: winningest band of the '90s), except they don't even have a Game 7 on their resume. Harold Baines, maybe, except I like Harold Baines. I don't know if there's such a blatant long-term mediocrity that works as an analogy.

― clemenza, Wednesday, February 10, 2021 9:57 AM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

more like yadier molina, in that their stats don't measure up but they've been around for ever and have position-specific intangibles (for yadi, pitch framing and catcher defense, for foo fighters, dave grohl being both guy that everyone loves and a walking symbol for "rock lives on after kurt cobain")

No one else voting for Fela?

I will. I saw him live in '89; it was amazing. I'm pretty sure he played no more than four songs in two hours, and between the band and the female dancers, it seemed like there were 50 people onstage.

I would but Chaka forever.

tapestry was released 50 years ago today, so points for symmetry

i'm not gonna hate on any of these acts, but new york dolls/go-go's/ratm didn't really put out that much music. and as jaymc pointed out elsewhere, where are pj harvey/björk/tori?

Surprised the New York Dolls aren't in...well, not that surprised, since the MC5 also aren't in. But the Dolls and Fela easily, along with Chaka, Tina Turner, Carole King, and Dionne Warwick.

They should have just started with everybody in, and then every year they vote someone out.

I like that! This year's ballot: Bo Donaldson & the Heywoods, Matt Bianco, Rupert Holmes, Doctor & the Medics, the Foo Fighters.

Ratt gets snubbed again

The day Björk gets nominated for the R&R Hall of Fame, I'll start listening to Iron Maiden.

The carpe diem-themed lyrics are also rock 'n' roll af:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBpSxRGudNE

One thing I don't get at all: electing Muddy Waters to the main hall (good) but putting Howlin' Wolf in as an "early influence" instead. They're born within three years of each other; according to Wikipedia, their careers both go back to the '30s; their first albums on Chess came out within a year of each other. I get Robert Johnson as an early influence, but my guess is, besides the close parallel to Waters, Howlin' Wolf has been covered by just as many if not more rock bands.

Friends were making fun of me a while back when they discovered I had my Howlin' Wolf albums filed in the 'W' section. "You realize his surname isn't 'Wolf,' right?"

I also would’ve put them under ‘W’ – it’s his stage name, right? (Do your friends put Muddy Waters under ‘M’? Iggy Pop under ‘I’?)

Do they put him under "H" or "B"? (I think I do put him under "H" but it seems questionable now.)

I think of Pop as made-up surname, but a surname nonetheless; I think Howlin' Wolf is meant more as a two-word phrase? Muddy Waters (who I've also had in the W's for years) seems more like Howlin' Wolf, a phrase. I don't know. Nor am I sure if Mama Cass should go in the 'M' or the 'E' section.

Once I decide, I'm going to start classifying each letter into "rock and roll" and "early influence" sub-sections.

There’s a joke here: “Where do you put Meat Loaf records?” “Oh, that one’s easy—nowhere, I don’t own any.”

Yeah, I think I always just thought of "Meat Loaf" and "Howlin Wolf" as two-word phrases as opposed to first name/surname so classified them by the 1st letter but am not sure that's defensible.

I was curious as whether the NY Times referred to him as Mr. Loaf. They don't.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/25/arts/meatloaf-bat-out-of-hell.html

my rule is if its a legal first & last name, its filed under surname. if theres any nickname or alteration whatsoever, it goes under first letter. anything else gets too confusing for me. screaming jay hawkins under s, muddy waters under m, meat loaf in the trash

I can see it both ways—but the fact that Wolf and Waters could be “normal” last names at least makes an argument for treating them that way, while “Loaf” doesn’t.

What is the distinction there?

Just that "Waters" and "Wolf" exist as Anglo-Saxon last names?

I was kidding about the Times--Meatloaf's just one word, you can't split it up. It'd by like filing Blowfly in the 'F' section.

I'm wrong! It is two words. My joke is salvaged.

I thought he does spell it as 2 capitalized words?xp ah

xxp Anglo-Saxon(?) They’re just not uncommon surnames in the US. No one is named “Loaf.”

Ha: https://www.ancestry.ca/name-origin?surname=loaf&geo_a=r&geo_s=us&geo_t=ca&geo_v=2.0.0&_ga=2.219026577.921939885.1613843597-1391661623.1613843597&o_iid=41015&o_lid=41015&o_sch=Web+Property

To me, it makes more sense to look at the first names. Does Howlin' make sense as a stand-alone name without Wolf? Did people actually address him as Howlin'?

Muddy Waters is also a two-word phrase, of course, but it's easier to imagine Muddy (rhymes with Buddy) as a stand-alone name.

From an interview:

"All of a sudden I became Muddy Waters. You know? Just overnight. People started to speakin', hollerin' across the streets at me. When they used to hardly say good morning, you know. I could walk down the street--'Hey, Muddy! Hey, Muddy! There go Muddy!"

I'm almost positive my entire rationale for any of this traces to the first (red) Rolling Stone Record Guide: they have both Howlin' Wolf and Muddy Waters filed under 'W' in their blues section. Elsewhere, Captain Beefheart is filed under 'B', the Captain & Tennille under 'C', Meat Loaf and Mama Cass under 'M'. They seem not to have given inconsistencies a great deal of thought.

Captain & Tennille is easy, of course that’s under “C.” I can see why Beefheart would be a toss-up, though I would probably also use “B.”

Howlin' Wolf under 'H', Captain Beefheart under 'C', because they are titles, not names.
Muddy Waters under 'W', Iggy Pop under 'P', because they are names, even though they are pseudonyms.
Cat Stevens under 'S', even though everyone called him Steve in the 70s.

Dr. John under 'D', also a title rather than a name.

Iggy and the Stooges under 'I', Alice Cooper 1969-1974 under 'A', because they are group names.

So you separate Raw Power from the other Stooges records?

Fwiw I always file Bob Dylan under W because his real name is Lucky Wilbury.

Yes, and separate from the Iggy Pop solo records too.

Where do you guys file MC / DJ ______ artists?

The only one I own is DJ Shadow, under 'D', although I can see how someone with a lot would use a different filing system.

Howlin' Wolf was Howlin' Wolf, this is canon

https://i.imgur.com/Yfek1IB.jpeg

TS: Miles vs (Col)trane

where the fuck is count basie

for that matter where the fuck is Count Bass D?

I hate every count I see from Count Base D to Count Base E

Pumpkins, Smashing

Smiling politely, Homer Simpson

I have legit seen Jane Eyre alphabetized under E, y'all.

where the fuck is count basie

I have separate shelves for the nobility, in order of rank. It goes foughly like this:

King Missile
Queen Latifah
Duke Ellington
Count Basie
Earl "Fatha" Hines
Sir Mix-a-lot
Common

Generally these are shelved after Eric Clapton, because royalty is only subject to God.

Foughly should be roughly

Also Bobbie Gentry goes before Common

Haha

Where do John Squire and Jordan Knight fit in?

All of the options are fine except the Foo Fighters. Voted "who cares?"

Filing the Foo Fighters under who-cares makes perfect sense to me.

This thread is the Rock Hall's greatest claim to fame.

If it's your own collection, just file them where you'd immediately think they'll be - you shouldn't have to think it over, it's for your own convenience. I guess I file them 'correctly,' but I was already used to the correct filing from libraries, stores, etc.

the reason I compared Foo Fighters to Jack Morris upthread, flawed as it was, as it seems like they're getting it purely on longevity, for being a 'decent enough' band that managed to last 25+ years.

which is kind of mind blowing to me, as I never expected them to have that kinda career arc when I first listened to them in the 90s. I don't think anybody was convinced they'd really be an ongoing thing until Colour came out and blew up.

fwiw it’s not just that they’ve been around, it’s that they’ve been around and been popular the whole time. foo fighters have 14 mil spotify monthly listeners, which i think is the most of any post-grunge group from their era.

It's not just that they've been around and been popular the whole time, it's that they've embraced this role of torchbearers of the Rock'N'Roll™ brand.

Build it a museum and establish guitar camps to teach it to kids

They defined the sound of modern rock radio, to the degree that you know all their hit songs but have no idea who sings them. Because they're so bland it could be anyone.