The Who : Classic or Dud

definitely prefer clever pop songwriter townshend to rock opera genius townshend.

I dunno, I don't think that distinction is necessary: his genius rock operas were constructed out of clever pop songs.

So much so that reversing your wording describes him perfectly: genius pop songwriter Townshend vs. clever rock opera Townshend.

otm

"Be Lucky" is embarrassing

definitely prefer clever pop songwriter townshend to rock opera genius townshend.

― tylerw, Saturday, September 27, 2014 7:20 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I prefer boiler-suited, amps to 11, blood on the stage and an 18 minute "generation" followed by Naked Eye and a massacre of the first three rows of patrons. Also: courvoisier

First performance of "A Quick One, While He's Away" in 44 years:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2vYqIssV8M

Haha, whoops, wrong clip...(happy birthday, Jimmy Lyons!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgrmcNCe4Ok

Lol

New Pete interview:
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/whos-done-pete-townshends-ambivalent-farewell-20150507

I always feel very sad when I say this because I think I'm unusual in this respect. People don't really believe me. But I don't enjoy performing. I don't feel uplifted on the stage. I rarely have moments these days onstage when I go into what jazz musicians call "the zone." I rarely lose myself on the stage.

...

To wrap this up: Every night you begin the show by blasting into the opening notes of "I Can't Explain." It sure looks like you're enjoying yourself—

[Laughs] You don't believe me, do you! Nobody believes me. The best way to enjoy it is to laugh at it. It's fucking absurd, isn't it? It was absurd when I was fucking 20, it's even more absurd now I'm 70.

Complaining all the way to the bank.

He enjoys being on tour but he doesn't like playing, which at the very least is an original take.

Also the weird calling out/not calling out Robert Plant in equal measure.

Also the fact the Pete even kind of knows who Henry Rollins is (enough to causally mentioned him in an oft-hand way) blows my 16 yo mind

That is a great interview! Thing is, the musician doesn't necessarily need to enjoy performing or having that "in the zone" moment to give a good performance. In fact if he is bored w it he may end up playing/performing in an even more interesting way than otherwise.

I like what he said about John Paul Jones, wanting to hear him do cool keyboard stuff on a new Led Zeppelin album.

One would have thought 30 years ago that Townshend, no matter what depredation the act of recording and playing music for $$$ had undergone, would continue to be creative as it had been commonly understood during his peak era. I went to a press conference in 00, when JE was still alive, and when asked he said "how do you know I don't have any new music? Maybe I don't want you to hear it!" Fair enuff.

But after all this time, it is also fair to say that it appears that the only thing that he shares with the public, never mind his fans, is to go on tour as "the Who." that's it! doesn't he have anything else on his mind? so what if you don't make as $$$ when you make a record as 30-40-50 years ago! wouldn't you think he of all ROCK artists would consider such concerns to be irrelevant? (nine years ago was Endless Wire, which I invite anyone to say was really good, but when I heard it, it seemed a transparent and uninspired effort to do shit for Roger, who truly is not the brightest bulb and unlike Pete has nothing except for the Who.

(nine years ago was Endless Wire, which I invite anyone to say was really good

Endless Wire was really good -- better than It's Hard, better than Face Dances, better than Who Are You (with the exception of the title song there). "Mike Post Theme" is as definitive/defining a Who song as anything they've recorded (as the Who or otherwise) since 1973.

I think Psychoderelict and Endless Wire are the only new albums Townshend did after the Who first reformed in 1989. He of course did the work with the Tommy musical, which was a pretty big success in an arena where few rock musicians would ever venture to follow. While novel, it wasn't new material.

It's kind of a shame that Townshend never did more work with Gilmour, I think they could have probably done each other some good in such a project. White City is a pretty good record and whose sound has held up quite well I think.

I think Psychoderelict and Endless Wire are the only new albums Townshend did after the Who first reformed in 1989.

Don't forget The Iron Man! Although, that actually came out at the same time as when the 1989 tour started.

He of course did the work with the Tommy musical, which was a pretty big success in an arena where few rock musicians would ever venture to follow. While novel, it wasn't new material.

Townshend doing Tommy as a Broadway musical was basically a "No, like THIS, you idiots!" to the Broadway establishment that had been pooping out nothing but awful "Rock" "Musicals." Townshend lent the form (such as it was) some depth (such as it was). Unfortunately, a pit orchestra of Professional Session Musicians is, by definition, going to completely miss everything that made Tommy great (and Tommy was only great in its 1969-1970 live performances).

It's kind of a shame that Townshend never did more work with Gilmour, I think they could have probably done each other some good in such a project. White City is a pretty good record and whose sound has held up quite well I think.

Yeah -- not only is White City underrated, but it's aged a lot better than The Iron Man or Psychoderelict. Townshend should've had Chris Thomas produce those two as well.

I suspect that Townshend is secure enough that he doesn't need/want whatever validation might result from releasing new music. He seems pretty content to stockpile. And unlike, say, Jimmy Page, whose interviews are always teased with, "Oh, just you wait! I have so many mysterious, interesting, fog-machine-esque projects in my cauldron!", I actually believe that Townshend has a massive stockpile of unreleased new work.

Gonna see (for too much money) the 50th aniv tour gig near me (cuz wife has never seen them before)

whaddya know, Townshend just recorded some new stuff:
http://petetownshend.net/news/pete-townshend-records-new-tracks-in-nashville

i really love their almost motorik take on "dancing in the streets" from the bbc sessions. is there other stuff like that out there?

There is!

Their version of "Under My Thumb":
http://youtu.be/wIjO2x2Js9g

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-roger-daltrey-pot-smoke-who-concert-20150522-story.html

By MIKAEL WOOD
contact the reporter

The kids are alright, according to Roger Daltrey, unless they're into marijuana.

That seemed to be the message, anyway, Wednesday night at New York's Nassau Coliseum, where the Who frontman, 71, reportedly threatened to stop a concert by his band after smelling pot smoke near the stage.

Saying he's allergic to the smoke, the singer told the crowd his voice was shutting down, according to Newsday, and that he wouldn't go on unless the smoker stopped.

"It's your choice," Daltrey says in an expletive-laden YouTube video that appears to have been shot at the show. "I can't do anything about it. I'm doing my best."

Then Daltrey's bandmate, Pete Townshend, suggests another way of ingesting the drug.

The Who is on tour commemorating the 50th anniversary of its debut album, "My Generation." It's scheduled to play Anaheim's Honda Center on Sept. 16 and Staples Center on Sept. 21.

here is more for that Newday link:

There were tense moments at Nassau Coliseum Wednesday night, as The Who's singer Roger Daltrey threatened to walk off the stage if someone smoking marijuana near the stage didn't stop.

Daltrey has a well-known allergy to marijuana smoke that affects his throat and singing voice, a condition the band even emphasized during the informational slides it projected before its set.

The smoke's impact was almost immediate on his voice, which went from crystal clear and potent for the opening "I Can't Explain" to something rougher and more limited during "I Can See for Miles." "My voice is shutting down," he said, apologizing.

A few songs later, though, Daltrey had seemingly recovered. He hit the towering notes of "Love Reign O'er Me" with no problem and his voice got stronger from there, matching Pete Townshend's inventive, ferocious guitar playing.

If "The Who Hits 50!" really is The Who's farewell tour, Daltrey and Townshend are certainly going out rocking, with a two-hour set that traces their journey from jangly mod-influenced pop to ambitious artists crafting detailed rock operas to rock standard-bearers. Each had his moments to excel. Daltrey powered his way through the selections from "Tommy." Townshend crafted new approaches to "Eminence Front," which picked up a jazzier vibe, and "Squeeze Box" (now with more banjo).

But the biggest moments came when they were both pushing hardest -- the powerful one-two punch of "Baba O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again," with Townshend in all his windmilling glory, and Daltrey playing every bit of the mic-twirling frontman.

They seemingly have more backup than ever, with help from guitarist Simon Townshend, bassist Pino Palladino, drummer Zak Starkey, keyboardists John Corey and Loren Gold and musical director Frank Simes. All that musical firepower made "A Quick One, While He's Away," which Townshend described as their first rock opera, an unexpected treat, starting with the four-part harmonies and winding through a dizzying range of rock styles.

Townshend's stage banter was also in rare form, noting that he had made some decisions since turning 70 on Tuesday. "From now on I will only tell the truth," he said, adding that he had a very English sense of humor. "How do I feel about you? I'd better not say."

informational slides it projected before its set

WTF?!
Monty Python instructor voice: "You are about to see a rock band. Do not be alarmed."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug8nHaelWtc

lol

When I last saw them, in 2012, Daltrey joked about it near the end. "Bring brownies instead!" He said that his pot smoke allergy was new, and had taken him by surprise (and I think said something like, "Good thing I wasn't allergic in the 60s!"). But sounded fine during the show.

The Who 3-28-81 Rockpalast

That is a prety good show if you find it. It's got really good production. The Who Mk. II put on a pretty energetic performance some of the performances of less popular numbers like The Quiet One and Drowned are highlights of the gig.

I was at this show — seats behind the stage, unfortunately. I remember being stunned when they kicked off with "My Generation."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QACpLZUuzs

Sunday's show was wonderful. Daltrey sounded fairly gravelly, but didn't struggle with pitch too much, at least in the mid/lower registers. He even nailed the "best I ever had" line once or twice in Bargain, to everyone's astonishment. But he also did the "sing this line!"/holding-the-mic-out-to-the-audience thing a lot -- he didn't do that at all on the other 10 Who shows I've seen. And the scream at the end of "Won't Get Fooled Again" was a recording of the original paired with whatever he could muster live.

Townshend and Starkey were on fire, particularly on "Bargain" and "Sparks." Pete's been into this insane fingerpicking thing, with distinctly Coltrane-esque phrasing, since around 2000 or so, and it's never less than thrilling.

Interesting, last I saw the Who looked like Pete delegated a lot to Simon and had trouble getting his own fingers to do the tough stuff, like the solo in Fooled Again.

Simon was barely audible, at least from where I was sitting. Pete clearly enjoyed all of his solo moments, particularly on "Eminence Front."

Daltrey has viral meningitis, tour postponed:
http://thewho.com/postponed-2015-north-american-tour/

The live mentioned above seems to be coming out in a couple of weeks.

Any live Who pre-Tommy that is recorded well would be cool to have. I guess the My Generation is even longer than the Live at Leeds one.

The Who - Live at the Fillmore East 1968

Disc: 1
1. Summertime Blues
2. Fortune Teller
3. Tattoo
4. Little Billy
5. I Can't Explain
6. Happy Jack
7. Relax
8. I'm A Boy
9. A Quick One
10. My Way
11. C'mon Everybody
12. Shakin' All Over
13. Boris The Spider

Disc: 2
1. My Generation

Sounds rad. They do "Little Billy!"

It doesn't get talked about so much anymore, but 'You Better, You Bet' really is classic.

I concur, along with "Eminence Front".

'Eminence Front' is maybe my favorite Who songs and is definitely among their best.

You look at their discography and the tunes that came out on Odds and Sods and live records, there definitely is a lost Who album in there.

It probably would have been a good release valve for the band to have put out some other records that were just collections of songs that didn't have to be tied to a big theme. Entwistle's tunes recorded by the Who would have been even better. Those tunes mixed with some of the more acoustic music Pete did outside the band could have made a couple of interesting LPs.

the fillmore east bootleg is a super classic. i don't think my copy had "my generation" but "shakin' all over" and "relax" are monsters.

Been listening to the new Fillmore East set since I got it last Friday, and it is indeed a monster.

First, the bad points: Moon's drums are very poorly miked. Sometimes you can hear one bass drum, sometimes two, sometimes none, and sometimes the bass drum sounds like the snare drum. Apparently, this was recorded to 4-track and not monitored at all during the show/recording. From photos I've seen, and the recording backs it up, there's mics on each bass drum, one under the snare (which means you get a wax-papery snare sound, with none of the crack -- Papas Fritas did this same thing on their first record), and one overhead. The problem is, with the toms unmiked, most of Moon's playing has these awkward holes. His toms were integral to his approach to orchestration, and with them missing, the drum sound is anemic. This is reinforced by a moment about 2:33 into "Shakin' All Over," where Pete and John drop out and you can hear Moon's kit distantly, but clearly -- it's an incredible and frustrating moment where he is completely raging, and his full power is briefly on display, but soon gets swallowed up again by the lack of proper miking.

So why was the Who so poorly served by a live recording while Cream -- with a similarly huge drum kit -- flourished? Cream sold vastly more records than the Who, and crucially, Atlantic knew what they had in Cream and weren't averse to spending a few bucks to get good live recordings. Decca was still run by, as a Who associate put it at the time, "guys with crew-cuts who looked like they were in the CIA." The idea of spending a couple thousand dollars on a live recording for a band with one top 10 single and one top 50 album was likely a non-starter with Decca.

All that said, the 33-minute "My Generation" here is like John Fahey, Charles Mingus, Keiji Haino, and Milford Graves covering "Sister Ray." I am only slightly exaggerating.

spies they're come and gone
the story travels on
the only quiet place is inside your soul

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFPC1leh4LI

How I'd rank their hits.

Great list — “Dogs” and “The Relay” never get enough love. (And while I’d rate “You Better, You Bet” slightly higher, I much prefer Townshend’s demo.)

As for By Numbers, I dunno if I can convince you to give it a concentrated listen, but my take on it is that he/they have given up. They tried to bring the audience to this state of interaction that went beyond the usual audience-performer relationship (Lifehouse), it failed, and they witnessed the devolution of concerts (particularly in the US) into celebrations of firecrackers and quaaludes. By Numbers was originally intended to be their final album, signaling defeat. In doing so, they found their feet as an ensemble in the studio for the final time, sounding as confident and focused — arguably moreso — than on Quadrophenia.

Who Are You, on the other hand, feels like a forced last gasp, overstuffed arrangements trying (and failing) to mask the deficiencies of the writing. “905” is one of Entwistle’s best songs, and I’ll rep for the title track, “Sister Disco,” and even “Love Is Coming Down.” But replace “Guitar and Pen” and one of the other Entwistle songs with “No Road Romance” and “Empty Glass” (both recorded in ‘78 by Pete, Keith, and John, but rejected by the band for inclusion on the album), and it’d be a much-improved near-classic.

Good post

I kinda think the Who might have been served by doing some other projects in-between the big rock operas. Never quite understood why Daltrey was not interested in singing some of Entwistle's tunes, which I understand was the case. Tommy kind of overtook everything and then it was trying to one up that record, which was really kinda impossible. Maybe with a more modern sensibility about putting out records, they might have done a bit more low key and just different.

They definitely left a decent LP of tunes behind between Tommy and Who's Next, even beyond some of the other Lifehouse tracks.

Then again, I think the money got so big and it got going so fast, it was probably just hanging on to keep going on.

As for By Numbers, I dunno if I can convince you to give it a concentrated listen, but my take on it is that he/they have given up. They tried to bring the audience to this state of interaction that went beyond the usual audience-performer relationship (Lifehouse), it failed, and they witnessed the devolution of concerts (particularly in the US) into celebrations of firecrackers and quaaludes. By Numbers was originally intended to be their final album, signaling defeat. In doing so, they found their feet as an ensemble in the studio for the final time, sounding as confident and focused — arguably moreso — than on Quadropheni

You're not the first person in the last few days on social media to urge me to listen to By Numbers. I'm surprised -- I loathe "Squeeze Box."

"Squeeze Box" is an outlier.

I bet I haven't listened to By Numbers in 25 years and I still think of "How Ever Much I Booze", "Success Story", and "How Many Friends" as some of my favorite 70s 'Oo tunes

What a great and utterly fucked up band

Or that wonderful Townsend ukulele gem on Numbers, The Blue, the Red and the Grey

i've always kinda looked over by numbers, but slip kid is great and i got new appreciation for imagine a man when i saw em play it in concert a few months back.