Slop 'n' Edge in 1981: Black Flag's 'Damaged' vs Venom's 'Welcome to Hell'

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Suicidal self-loathing and anti-normie irony or Satanist self-parody and troglodytic misogyny? Both burst with unproficient energy throughout, both rule when you're an angry teenager (and possibly later in life as well).

Poll Results

OptionVotes
Black Flag – Damaged 24
Venom – Welcome to Hell 8


totally not pomentiful (pomenitul), Tuesday, 1 September 2020 02:11 (three weeks ago) link

I coincidentally revisited these two albums today only to realize that they both came out in 1981.

totally not pomentiful (pomenitul), Tuesday, 1 September 2020 02:12 (three weeks ago) link

love both, but I'm always gonna vote Venom.

still, though, "Damaged I" is one of the greatest songs ever written, so it's not a runaway vic

pass the cur's dossier (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 1 September 2020 02:29 (three weeks ago) link

I wish AlexinNYC was here to opine... I don't think he comes 'round here muchy these days, alas.

Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Tuesday, 1 September 2020 03:03 (three weeks ago) link

The Dez-sung Damaged is one of the greatest rock records of all-time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9r93m1KhMQ

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Tuesday, 1 September 2020 03:57 (three weeks ago) link

AlexinNYC is def the apposite poster for these threads (and many others). Where'd he go?

xp

totally not pomentiful (pomenitul), Tuesday, 1 September 2020 14:00 (three weeks ago) link

I'd have to go with Damaged but Welcome To Hell is such a great album - Angel Dust! In League With Satan! Sons of Satan! lots of bangers on that one. I like it better than Black Metal even

CP Radio Gorgeous (Colonel Poo), Tuesday, 1 September 2020 15:33 (three weeks ago) link

when I saw Venom 5 years ago (in January of 2020) they played almost all of those tunes. I do think I also prefer Welcome to Hell.

pass the cur's dossier (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 1 September 2020 15:44 (three weeks ago) link

I agree that Welcome to Hell tops Black Metal, if only due to the stereotypically awesome guitar solo in 'One Thousand Days in Sodom', which serves more love imho.

totally not pomentiful (pomenitul), Tuesday, 1 September 2020 16:50 (three weeks ago) link

*deserves, but it serves plenty of love too.

totally not pomentiful (pomenitul), Tuesday, 1 September 2020 21:08 (three weeks ago) link

see it in... maniacs

where do all these unsold amps go? (gaudio), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 00:40 (one week ago) link

Damaged 4eva

sleeve, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 00:45 (one week ago) link

that FLAG tour of a few years back (2016 i think?),I pitted to a lot of the classic Damaged tunes. it was a great fountain of youth.

didn't even make it to the end of the actual Black Flag show I went to 10 years ago in February of 2020

Neanderthal, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 00:48 (one week ago) link

Went with Venom to balance things out (by the looks of it) but the fact of the matter is that both are equally worthy in my book.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:04 (one week ago) link

I fucking love both, although I'll concede that DAMAGED felt more important (I realize this is a truly rich adjective to use, here). I still remember the first time I heard "Rise Above" and it being a genuinely astonishing moment ("wow, these guys really fucking mean it!" etc.) I'll go with Black Flag, but that in absolutely no way diminishes my lifelong adoration for Venom.

Like you care.

Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:22 (one week ago) link

I care...

Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:23 (one week ago) link

Oh, sup.

Black Flag definitely top Venom in the perceived authenticity department.

pomenitul, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 13:27 (one week ago) link

I'll concede that "Rise Above" is a great song but otherwise this is Venom.

J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 14:05 (one week ago) link

welcome to hell, my unpopular opinion is this would be a closer matchup if it were between welcome to hell and a later flag record

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 14:08 (one week ago) link

Yeah, but there's so much more than "Rise Above." "Six Pack"? "Thirsty & Miserable"? "Gimme Gimme Gimme"? "Spray Paint"? The record is unstoppable. Also, Henry's takes on "Depression" and "Police Story" are both entirely excellent.

Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:52 (one week ago) link

To my mind, they would never be this good again.

Alex in NYC, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 15:52 (one week ago) link

were they mutually appreciative or was it just one way. I think BF dug Venom but not sure what Venom listened to .

Stevolende, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:33 (one week ago) link

Stuff like Motorhead

Neanderthal, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:38 (one week ago) link

I've never even heard that Venom album, whereas Damaged was a soundtrack for me.

healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:42 (one week ago) link

To my mind, they would never be this good again.

― Alex in NYC, Wednesday, September 9, 2020 8:52 AM (one hour ago)

...once Dez stopped singing.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 16:58 (one week ago) link

to be fair, same could be said of Venom only an album later.

though I will say they had that one good album with Demolition Man in the 80s .

Neanderthal, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 17:07 (one week ago) link

were they mutually appreciative or was it just one way. I think BF dug Venom but not sure what Venom listened to .

― Stevolende, Wednesday, September 9, 2020 11:33 AM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Rollins on Venom, from Get In the Van, after Black Flag opened for Venom in New Jersey in 1986:

Venom is weak. Everything about them is weak. They can’t even play. They had a bunch of roadies to do everything. Weak, weak, weak. I would love to play with fucking “heavy metal” bands more often. It was fun crushing them. It’s all lights and makeup. What bullshit. Venom suck. They are so full of shit. What a bad joke. They don’t sweat and they probably don’t even fuck.

JRN, Wednesday, 9 September 2020 19:33 (one week ago) link

This is consistently amazing - even better than you think it's gonna be:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TztqYaemt0

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 9 September 2020 19:40 (one week ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Thursday, 10 September 2020 00:01 (one week ago) link

"they probably don't even fuck"

What is that supposed to genuinely mean?

I think Venom probably liked Black Flag ... from a distance. But Black Flag hated everyone they played with (they really didn't like the Sisters of Mercy, I can tell you that).

Alex in NYC, Thursday, 10 September 2020 16:20 (one week ago) link

Maybe he mistook them for straight edgers.

pomenitul, Thursday, 10 September 2020 16:22 (one week ago) link

Black Flag hated everyone

who's trver, now?

i'll forever associate WtH with an older friend's selling point "it's going to scare the shit out of you". it did not. found it pretty funny and singalong actually. 11yo iirc and into maiden, helloween, that stuff. it took, later, South Of Heaven to convince me of the evil bs done right wrong. that cover alone!

i only heard of Black Flag and loved it years after beeing deep into the Rollins Band; which was just fundamental to me.

would pick any Black Flag over any Venom tbh

where do all these unsold amps go? (gaudio), Thursday, 10 September 2020 16:59 (one week ago) link

has anybody ever been scared by music?

other than Pat Boone's In a Metal Mood?

Neanderthal, Thursday, 10 September 2020 17:17 (one week ago) link

The Caretaker's six-part Everywhere at the End of Time, which documents the gruellingly slow breakdown of the human psyche in the face of Alzheimer's disease, gets kind of terrifying by the time you hit stage 4. Just one example in recent memory (hah). So maybe rock-derived genres are less frightening on average, even when they try their damnedest.

pomenitul, Thursday, 10 September 2020 17:21 (one week ago) link

while tripping? of course!

xp

where do all these unsold amps go? (gaudio), Thursday, 10 September 2020 17:25 (one week ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Friday, 11 September 2020 00:01 (one week ago) link

Should've been way closer than that.

pomenitul, Friday, 11 September 2020 00:02 (one week ago) link

yeah fuck that skewing. shoulda been like 14-10, 13-11, 12-12

Neanderthal, Friday, 11 September 2020 00:04 (one week ago) link

I did my part, and I stand by it.

KILL, WE WILL KILL DEATH
MASTURBATING ON THE DEEDS WE HAVE DONE

pomenitul, Friday, 11 September 2020 00:16 (one week ago) link

-"Louie, Louie"

Neanderthal, Friday, 11 September 2020 00:17 (one week ago) link

Venom is weak. Everything about them is weak. They can’t even play. They had a bunch of roadies to do everything. Weak, weak, weak.

Greg Ginn's solos, time after time after time, are some of the worst music ever played. They're just a whole lot of nothing. This isn't a muso question -- they're just a boring mess.
Henry Rollins, who plays no instruments at all and is a giant poseur, is not really in a position to say who can play, though I'm sure he's a fine judge of who adheres to in-scene codes of cool.

J Edgar Noothgrush (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 13 September 2020 17:54 (one week ago) link

Lol otm

Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 September 2020 17:56 (one week ago) link

I don’t really give a shit about black flag. venom are the fucking shit

brimstead, Sunday, 13 September 2020 19:04 (one week ago) link

I don’t know anything they did after At War With Satan, though, so Rollins might be not offtm there?

brimstead, Sunday, 13 September 2020 19:05 (one week ago) link

has anybody ever been scared by music?

other than Pat Boone's _In a Metal Mood_?


MIRANDA JULY, my friend

brimstead, Sunday, 13 September 2020 19:06 (one week ago) link

Very little great stuff after AWWS but Possessed 8s good

Neanderthal, Sunday, 13 September 2020 19:13 (one week ago) link

Greg Ginn's solos, time after time after time, are some of the worst music ever played. They're just a whole lot of nothing. This isn't a muso question -- they're just a boring mess.

Even if you grant this (which I don't; I think the messy noisy sprawling awfulness is the point), Ginn's riffs are better than Venom's, and so is his guitar sound.

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 13 September 2020 19:40 (one week ago) link

Damaged is still BF being kind of ramonesy but with the guitar and bass getting messier.
THink it's only a bit l;ater taht the guitar splurge really takes over.
Do love teh 5 piece doing teh My War material but love the Kira group's version of heavy rock.
Do wish she;'d written her own basslines though. Not sure how a multi hour jam would sound or feel if you weren'' coming up with your own lines

Stevolende, Sunday, 13 September 2020 19:49 (one week ago) link

black flag are better, and making messy noisy sprawling awfulness is kind of the entire point of punk rock

the burrito that defined a generation, Sunday, 13 September 2020 19:53 (one week ago) link

I don’t really give a shit about black flag. venom are the fucking shit

Prestigious take imo.

pomenitul, Sunday, 13 September 2020 19:54 (one week ago) link

thraed already has the potential to be bumped every six months

where do all these unsold amps go? (gaudio), Monday, 14 September 2020 03:43 (one week ago) link

Henry Rollins, who plays no instruments at all and is a giant poseur, is not really in a position to say who can play, though I'm sure he's a fine judge of who adheres to in-scene codes of cool.

lol'd but have to disagree JCLC--- idc about his venom quote, really; but solely going by who he worked with in the RB 87-97, also to an extent Mother Superior, Rollins ears the playas, imo

where do all these unsold amps go? (gaudio), Monday, 14 September 2020 03:46 (one week ago) link

I voted Black Flag on this, but thinking back I wish there was a BF line-up combo that had both Kira and Chuck Biscuits.

Elvis Telecom, Monday, 14 September 2020 03:57 (one week ago) link

Ginn's soloing through the My War era is some of my absolute favorite guitar playing. I do think he fell off pretty hard after that, though.

JRN, Monday, 14 September 2020 04:58 (one week ago) link

i like ginn's playing across the flag records even when it's stupid and bad

rollins however is full of shit and also totally misunderstands the appeal of venom

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 14 September 2020 16:22 (one week ago) link

Would anyone's vote be different if we'd polled bands instead of debut LPs?

pomenitul, Monday, 14 September 2020 16:24 (one week ago) link

i would probably vote for black flag in that case but they changed my life at an impressionable age

mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Monday, 14 September 2020 16:25 (one week ago) link

Black Flag definitely has more range over their brief discography than Venom, or so I gather, since I sure as hell haven't heard the latter's in its entirety.

pomenitul, Monday, 14 September 2020 16:26 (one week ago) link

Venom kind of shot their wad in their first 3 LPs

Neanderthal, Monday, 14 September 2020 16:34 (one week ago) link

the good stuff they did post AWWS was more following other trends of the moment than setting any. some of their recent stuff is listenable though.

but I liked the Venom, Inc album with Mantas and Abaddon better than the current Cronos incarnation. sadly, Venom Inc is down to only one orig member now.

Neanderthal, Monday, 14 September 2020 16:35 (one week ago) link


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