rolling #metoo thread for sexual harassment in the music industry so no one misses out when artists we don't give a fuck about like Tim Westwood and Bassnectar get caught

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It seems like a lot of the sexual harassment news of the last few years has either ended up in Weinsteins step down as Miramax CEOs or in individual artist threads like Ryan Adams and Swans: Classic or Dud? and Warped Tour 2004 and probably many more.

I just think it would do well to have a catch-all thread just for ILM. It seems like the news stories on this topic come and go and we don't get to see the full size of the issue. We could post news here or links to older revives in individual artist threads.

If this is a bad idea, feel free to let me know.

Anyways, here's Bassnectar:

No, I Do Not Want To Interview Bassnectar.

Here's Tim Westwood:

Tim Westwood = AWESOME

peace, man, Thursday, 9 July 2020 15:52 (nine months ago) link

good idea!

carin' (map), Thursday, 9 July 2020 15:53 (nine months ago) link

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fifthgear/images/7/70/Tim_westwood.PNG/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/450?cb=20180520153702

let's not forget that Tim Westwood is only one year younger than Theresa May (another child of the clergy) and uses a lot more grecian 2000. The real tragedy is he when got shot, the bullet didn't go right through his testicles. It all seems to have gone quiet about him and his grooming game. What an utter stain.

calzino, Thursday, 9 July 2020 16:02 (nine months ago) link

Whippin hard! What's my ride out music? pic.twitter.com/znI67xOcLO

— TimWestwoodTV (@TimWestwood) June 10, 2020

calzino, Thursday, 9 July 2020 16:47 (nine months ago) link

he's supposedly got knocking on half a million followers yet his "whipping hard" tweet gets him 11 retweets ..hmmm

calzino, Thursday, 9 July 2020 17:03 (nine months ago) link

the Minneapolis hip hop scene had a crazy week of blowing with all sorts of abusers getting outed

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/doomtree-prof-others-respond-after-members-of-minneapolis-hip-hop-scene-accused-of-abuse/

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 9 July 2020 17:16 (nine months ago) link

pretty glaring free pass still given to surviving classic rockers about this, feels like a conversation people want to postpone indefinitely

yeah the independent radio station i used to do a show for would send out emails about not playing music by the ducktails guy (for example) when sexual abuse allegations came out, but then people would still play james brown and led zeppelin all the time

na (NA), Thursday, 9 July 2020 21:18 (nine months ago) link

does listening to someone's music = giving them a pass? asking for a friend

trapped out the barndo (crüt), Thursday, 9 July 2020 21:27 (nine months ago) link

not necessarily but fandom tends to do that especially when it gets loud enough to shout down critical voices

Prince is a big one no one wants to touch

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 9 July 2020 22:19 (nine months ago) link

I still fuck with Prince, David Bowie, Motley Crue. Nugent, Zeppelin, Aerosmith to lesser extent. I don't know why this is, but some of the songs are so emotionally resonant to me that I can't divorce myself from them. I honestly haven't even looked into what Prince has done.

peace, man, Thursday, 9 July 2020 22:44 (nine months ago) link

idk if it's a specific one thing, or just the general consensus that he was a humongous asshole, often abusive. but i'll let ums confirm

I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Thursday, 9 July 2020 22:45 (nine months ago) link

I'm sure that Prince was a terrible asshole in many facets of his life.

peace, man, Thursday, 9 July 2020 22:57 (nine months ago) link

including the time when he was the symbol that he told the press they had to use the special font he gave them when writing about him, send them the special font in a file, then tried to sue people for using it in articles anyway.

I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Thursday, 9 July 2020 23:02 (nine months ago) link

The Tim Westwood thread shows that a whole lot of ILXors really did give a fuck about him.

The Fields o' Fat Henry (Tom D.), Thursday, 9 July 2020 23:32 (nine months ago) link

idk if it's a specific one thing, or just the general consensus that he was a humongous asshole, often abusive. but i'll let ums confirm

― I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Thursday, July 9, 2020 5:45 PM (fifty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

No I mean grooming underage women

In 1990, 16-year-old Garcia met Prince backstage in Barcelona after he saw a tape of her dancing. After she graduated high school in Germany at the age of 17, Prince became her legal guardian.[14][4] Upon moving to Minneapolis, Prince and members of his team helped set her up with her own apartment. "At first, I stayed at the Sofitel, then they moved me to a nice little prairie house at the Country Suites, but I couldn't even make a cup of tea there, so they got me an apartment and rented furniture," she said.[15] At the age of 19, Prince instructed her to get on birth control thus beginning their sexual relationship.[4] After a four-year courtship, they married on February 14, 1996.[16]

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 9 July 2020 23:36 (nine months ago) link

After she graduated high school in Germany at the age of 17, Prince became her legal guardian.

Ted Nugent pulled this same trick.

but also fuck you (unperson), Thursday, 9 July 2020 23:39 (nine months ago) link

Oh, well...that part I didn't know. fuck!

I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Thursday, 9 July 2020 23:40 (nine months ago) link

xpost

I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Thursday, 9 July 2020 23:40 (nine months ago) link

xps to Tom

he is like funk flex yes, but singular and glorious in a way only england can be
― bob zemko (bob), Monday, 14 October 2002 07:27 (seventeen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

just imagine how singular and glorious funkmaster flex could have been if he was an upper middle class white English pedo still "doing it" at 62!

calzino, Thursday, 9 July 2020 23:40 (nine months ago) link

Nona Gaye was 18 when they started dating (allegedly started)

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 9 July 2020 23:41 (nine months ago) link

A woman I know knows a lot of people from Prince world, an R&B singer told her the story that Prince was producing her debut solo album in the early 80s

She had done vox on the Lipps Inc project and other things

Anyway

Prince demanded a blow job in the studio, she refused, he walked out, end of her solo career

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 9 July 2020 23:43 (nine months ago) link

re: Doomtree, this is 100% shallow but my reaction to them after their set at the first Eaux Claires festival was “these people are terrible and I wish them all nothing but ill fortune”; I’m just sorry that their implosion is built on so much abuse and suffering.

shout-out to his family (DJP), Friday, 10 July 2020 00:08 (nine months ago) link

I'd prefer to keep Bowie, James Brown and Prince out of this not because they're too beloved, just cause they're dead that seems like a different category of queasiness. unless someone here is a necromancer-for-cancellation? surely we already have a "separating the art from the artist?" thread already

k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Friday, 10 July 2020 00:35 (nine months ago) link

but obv I'm not gonna make an actual effort to thread-police

k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Friday, 10 July 2020 00:35 (nine months ago) link

I hear that Gesualdo guy was an asshole.

pomenitul, Friday, 10 July 2020 00:36 (nine months ago) link

and yet he's still being played every hour, on the hour, on classic rock radio, sickening

Kate (rushomancy), Friday, 10 July 2020 00:38 (nine months ago) link

'Moro, lasso, al mio duolo' is an undeniable jam, though.

pomenitul, Friday, 10 July 2020 00:39 (nine months ago) link

Do these kids walking about with his face on their t-shirts even know though?

The Fields o' Fat Henry (Tom D.), Friday, 10 July 2020 00:42 (nine months ago) link

Part of it is living in the middle of Minneapolis' Prince Industrial Complex and the endless hagiography gets old

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 July 2020 01:39 (nine months ago) link

Gesualdo is obviously cancelled in my book

didn't actually know any of the bad Prince stories, surprised i didn't see anyone make a lot of noise about them when he died

ufo, Friday, 10 July 2020 05:33 (nine months ago) link

we all know rock n roll was partly built on this but it would be nice if we didn’t have to wait for the people to die, then wait for the mourning to die down, before any kind of minor reckoning with them. even nicer if it was their peers calling them out but that’s not happening & who else wants to deal with the threats

obv this is still going on in every genre/industry & statistically some of the ppl I like now are going to be creeps. which is shit but I’d rather know about it. lot more stuff is surely coming out soon, whether it will change anything idk. kids still love certain soundcloud dudes we knew about already. I hope they grow out of it

Worth noting that Rodney P and Ty (R.I.P) relentlessly told us of Tim Westwood’s predatory nature...no one listened. #SurvivingTimWestwood pic.twitter.com/FWGxLABWMQ

— Michael Morgan (@mikewhoatv) June 22, 2020

I'd been wondering how Westwood managed to stay so protected - from the viewpoint of 2020 it feels weird to think of the extent to which he was the biggest and pretty much only gatekeeper for any British MC (and the only person playing most rap music in the UK full stop). We're talking about a 20-30 year period of dominance here.

The even grimmer conclusion is that because he was primarily targeting young black girls, no one really cared.

Matt DC, Friday, 10 July 2020 10:04 (nine months ago) link

I'm surprised there isn't more concerted anger directed against him from some of the bigger grime stars (unless I've missed it) because he needs dragging down, what he gets away with is outrageous.

calzino, Friday, 10 July 2020 10:37 (nine months ago) link

mind you as a much as a joke character as he he seems, he still obv wields a lot of power and influence

calzino, Friday, 10 July 2020 10:54 (nine months ago) link

seeming like a joke character seems to help many people who wield a lot of power & influence

Prime Ministers, for instance.

The Fields o' Fat Henry (Tom D.), Friday, 10 July 2020 11:48 (nine months ago) link

The Prince stories, while unsurprising, are really bumming me out.

shout-out to his family (DJP), Friday, 10 July 2020 13:32 (nine months ago) link

yeah it's depressing
I did watch Purple Rain for the first time in probably 20 years on Netflix and that whole movie is a real grab bag of red flags though, yikes I was kinda shocked at how horrible The Kid came off

to your Doomtree post, I think those guys (except Dessa, I think she was in a different lane) were super hard drug abusers

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 10 July 2020 14:15 (nine months ago) link

I always felt like The Kid was supposed to look half horrible and not a model for behavior recommended by prince

but purple rain aside, djp otm. He was one of the few figures i would call a personal hero

gnarled and turbid sinuses (Jon not Jon), Friday, 10 July 2020 14:23 (nine months ago) link

its hard to process when a huge part, maybe the hugest part, of an artist's project is how sexuality fits into the universe they constructed

gnarled and turbid sinuses (Jon not Jon), Friday, 10 July 2020 14:27 (nine months ago) link

Yeah, my reading of Purple Rain was that The Kid was well on his way to becoming a piece of shit in the same vein as his father but music and Appolonia opened his eyes to his mistakes and gave him the strength to set his feet on a different path.

Also I don't mean to keep harping on this in the context of this thread but the Doomtree set was SO BAD, like half a step removed from Edina-Christian-youth-group-rapping-for-Jesus levels of bad

shout-out to his family (DJP), Friday, 10 July 2020 14:27 (nine months ago) link

its hard to process when a huge part, maybe the hugest part, of an artist's project is how sexuality fits into the universe they constructed

I wouldn't say it's hard, rather that my take on it was that he was projecting a stage persona most of the time and I hoped/assumed he turned it off when it wasn't appropriate (which is of course naive when actually considered but still).

shout-out to his family (DJP), Friday, 10 July 2020 14:28 (nine months ago) link

i'm starting to think that being a sexual predator / sexual power dynamics are like the quiet part of what being a successful pop star is or has always been about - the open secret. some people really seemed to relish it / some people were reluctant participants but obviously that doesn't change the end result - the pain of countless women (and queers) who suffered abuse.

carin' (map), Friday, 10 July 2020 15:23 (nine months ago) link

'pop star' but also music industry exec etc.

carin' (map), Friday, 10 July 2020 15:23 (nine months ago) link

this is a little out-of-bounds of this thread but i have my theories about why sexual abuse is so commonly done by people in these positions of power. part of it is the alienation of being an industrial exploiter in an exploitative capitalist framework - that very easily translates into sexual exploitation.

carin' (map), Friday, 10 July 2020 15:27 (nine months ago) link

(VHS’s chart is from that page)

beer drops on my keytar (morrisp), Thursday, 25 March 2021 22:22 (three weeks ago) link

Those numbers aren't the absolute proof the entertainment industry is better or worse, which we are likely to never have, and very much besides the point, but considering how abuse is pervasive in society and the entertainment industry is just a small part of the economy, trying to come to conclusions about how sexual abuse operate based on the entertainment industry's experiences is not likely to come up with very serviceable solutions.

I don't think it's a coincidence the #metoo movement truly gained traction when the victims were beloved celebrities.

Van Horn Street, Thursday, 25 March 2021 22:27 (three weeks ago) link

it also doesn't really contradict what im saying? haha

the worst industries are definitely the ones with low-paid occupations and a workforce that skews female and racialized and i concede that all the focus on the entertainment industry (and things like university campuses) and the sort of victims that "matter' because of their social status is a little counterproductive/wrong

《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 March 2021 22:28 (three weeks ago) link

You said it was “worse than the average industry” though

beer drops on my keytar (morrisp), Thursday, 25 March 2021 22:35 (three weeks ago) link

and i stand by that

《Myst1kOblivi0n》 (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 March 2021 22:35 (three weeks ago) link

That chart doesn't account for the size of each industry, so it's hard to say.

jmm, Thursday, 25 March 2021 22:41 (three weeks ago) link

It is hard to say (as VHS also commented), but I don’t see any reason to assume that’s the case. When Joe Schmo from Allied Chemical gets a harassment claim against him, it doesn’t make the news like it goes with a famous actor or director.

beer drops on my keytar (morrisp), Thursday, 25 March 2021 22:44 (three weeks ago) link

"it's just no one cares if the local social worker is outed as a sexually abusive asshole"

absolute bollox

calzino, Thursday, 25 March 2021 22:53 (three weeks ago) link

thanks for that chart, VHS and morris.

armoured van, Holden (sic), Thursday, 25 March 2021 22:59 (three weeks ago) link

lol!

calzino, Thursday, 25 March 2021 23:02 (three weeks ago) link

i have never worked in any food service job without witnessing some form of sexual harrassment

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 25 March 2021 23:58 (three weeks ago) link

absolute bollox

― calzino, Thursday, March 25, 2021 6:53 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

The majority of sexual abusers are anonymous and receive no media coverage.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 26 March 2021 00:44 (three weeks ago) link

Duuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh
There’s nothing special about dumbass Mark Kozelek

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 26 March 2021 00:47 (three weeks ago) link

xp

thank god the percentage of media coverage something gets isn't the only fucking metric that counts for anything.

calzino, Friday, 26 March 2021 00:53 (three weeks ago) link

I was making a point about the entertainment industry and how the coverage might distort some points of view, please leave me alone if you aren’t to engage in good faith and in the spirit of discussion.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 26 March 2021 00:55 (three weeks ago) link

I am engaging in good faith you risible prick

calzino, Friday, 26 March 2021 00:57 (three weeks ago) link

Definitely ran it through lawyers

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 March 2021 01:02 (three weeks ago) link

I am engaging in good faith you risible prick

― calzino, Thursday, March 25, 2021 8:57 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Please don't interact with my posts again. I don't come here for bullying and insults and policing tone. I have no need of this.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 26 March 2021 01:03 (three weeks ago) link

quite happily, you could basic basic software on a ZX81 more unpredictable than you.

calzino, Friday, 26 March 2021 01:08 (three weeks ago) link

I don't go on ILX to listen to clowns quoting Bill and Melinda gates think tanks, it will be easy.

calzino, Friday, 26 March 2021 01:11 (three weeks ago) link

Thanks for the chart VHS but I just don't believe mining is the paradise for women the data suggests

Guayaquil (eephus!), Friday, 26 March 2021 01:21 (three weeks ago) link

It doesn't say it is, if anything, chart might suggest that it is almost impossible for a women to file a sexual harassment charges.

Van Horn Street, Friday, 26 March 2021 01:23 (three weeks ago) link

so Har Mar's statement is

1) It's really brave of these women to come forward
2) I take this very seriously
3) I was really fucked up for a long period of time, abused drugs and alcohol and did a lot of things I regret
4) Regardless, these women are liars

frogbs, Friday, 26 March 2021 01:23 (three weeks ago) link

Yep. Not going over well.

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 26 March 2021 01:34 (three weeks ago) link

xxp 2014 report: 90% of Female Restaurant Workers Experience Sexual Harassment

beer drops on my keytar (morrisp), Friday, 26 March 2021 01:37 (three weeks ago) link

some quality links there, kid

calzino, Friday, 26 March 2021 02:00 (three weeks ago) link

"it's just no one cares if the local social worker is outed as a sexually abusive asshole"

absolute bollox

― calzino, Thursday, March 25, 2021 3:53 PM (five hours ago

obviously the people victimized by the asshole are going to care, and the employers of the asshole are going to care, and they are really going to care (or at least the civic agency's attorneys are) if the abuse happened on the job or with a client ... and if it involved a child ... geez. Is it going to become an HBO docuseries? Probably not.

sarahell, Friday, 26 March 2021 04:06 (three weeks ago) link

This dude (who was apparently once a rapper) hit it big on Twitter this week, and then—

https://www.thedailybeast.com/comedian-jensen-karp-faces-allegations-of-abusive-behavior-after-viral-shrimp-cereal-tweet

beer drops on my keytar (morrisp), Saturday, 27 March 2021 22:01 (three weeks ago) link

This one is so weird... I feel dumb for really wanting to know if he faked the shrimp (probably) but what grosses me out even more is the detail that he was going into a box of cinnamon toast crunch for seconds.

I heard him on a podcast once and I read his book. I mainly remember it as some breezy turn of the century hiphop ephemera stuff that seemed to keep coming back to the fact that he's positive he'd be a billionaire if Eminem didn't break the moment he did.

maf you one two (maffew12), Sunday, 28 March 2021 00:39 (three weeks ago) link

It’s very strange because he really was the white rap nerd who got to do things like write for rap nerd TV shows and write rap nerd books and release rap nerd trivia games and sell rap nerd lapel pins and write for award shows and do a lot of the shit that a lot of the ILX goon cru probably could do just as well but he always did seem a little smarter and funnier but not all that exceptionally different than a lot of ppl. And then this all comes out and it’s like “Oh, wait, there were some other things going on there”

bruce spr!ngisH3r3 (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 March 2021 02:01 (three weeks ago) link

is that why Cinnamon Toast Crunch was on sale the other day? I really don't understand this guy.

sarahell, Sunday, 28 March 2021 02:06 (three weeks ago) link

I doubt he’s faking the cereal thing (and it is gross/disturbing), but he was kind of irritatingly cutsie about it on Twitter. Like, I know you’re a “creative,” but don’t treat something like a joke/meme and then get all indignant at the company’s social media team.

beer drops on my keytar (morrisp), Sunday, 28 March 2021 02:17 (three weeks ago) link

Yeah, the leap from “Ummmm” to “I wasn’t all that mad until you now tried to gaslight me?” was nagl

bruce spr!ngisH3r3 (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, 28 March 2021 02:28 (three weeks ago) link

i kinda feel like this is something whiney would be talking about

― G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Wednesday, March 24, 2021 10:57 PM

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 28 March 2021 06:10 (three weeks ago) link

lol, that fucker took down his youtube channel

G.A.G.S. (Gophers Against Getting Stuffed) (forksclovetofu), Sunday, 28 March 2021 06:11 (three weeks ago) link

wtf; I assume this was his child?

akm, Sunday, 28 March 2021 15:47 (three weeks ago) link

I remember when Karl tried to turn finding out his aunts foster daughter became a porn star into a fame increaser for himself

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Sunday, 28 March 2021 19:35 (three weeks ago) link

Karp that is

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Sunday, 28 March 2021 19:36 (three weeks ago) link

Thanks for the chart VHS but I just don't believe mining is the paradise for women the data suggests

The one woman I know who worked in mining was absolutely sexually harassed and undermined on her job due to being a woman, and changed jobs because of it.

octobeard, Sunday, 28 March 2021 21:06 (three weeks ago) link

North Country is a 2005 American drama film directed by Niki Caro, starring Charlize Theron, Frances McDormand, Sean Bean, Richard Jenkins, Michelle Monaghan, Jeremy Renner, Woody Harrelson, and Sissy Spacek. The screenplay by Michael Seitzman was inspired by the 2002 book Class Action: The Story of Lois Jenson and the Landmark Case That Changed Sexual Harassment Law by Clara Bingham and Laura Leedy Gansler, which chronicled the case of Jenson v. Eveleth Taconite Company.
...
While working a job washing hair, Josey reconnects with an old acquaintance, Glory Dodge, who works at the local iron mine and suggests Josey do the same, as a job there pays six times more than what Josey's making now. Josey's pursuit of and securing the job further strains her relationship with Hank, who also works at the mine and believes women shouldn't be working there, so she and her children move in with Glory and her husband, Kyle.

Josey quickly befriends several other female workers at the mine and soon realizes the women are constant targets for sexual harassment and humiliation by most of their male co-workers, who, like Hank, believe the women are taking jobs more appropriate for men.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Country_(film)

bulb after bulb, Sunday, 28 March 2021 21:22 (three weeks ago) link

Sean Bean is great as Josey

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Sunday, 28 March 2021 21:53 (three weeks ago) link

Sean Bean is great as Josey

How does he die?

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 28 March 2021 22:43 (three weeks ago) link

bean is another one. this shit is so fucking normal you can't trust anything or anyone with any clout

nothing (Left), Monday, 29 March 2021 00:59 (three weeks ago) link

Sean bean dad

Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 29 March 2021 02:10 (three weeks ago) link

_Sean Bean is great as Josey_

How does he die?

I mean, it’s a mine.

Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 31 March 2021 16:49 (two weeks ago) link


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