rolling #metoo thread for sexual harassment in the music industry so no one misses out when artists we don't give a fuck about like Tim Westwood and Bassnectar get caught

It seems like a lot of the sexual harassment news of the last few years has either ended up in Weinsteins step down as Miramax CEOs or in individual artist threads like Ryan Adams and Swans: Classic or Dud? and Warped Tour 2004 and probably many more.

I just think it would do well to have a catch-all thread just for ILM. It seems like the news stories on this topic come and go and we don't get to see the full size of the issue. We could post news here or links to older revives in individual artist threads.

If this is a bad idea, feel free to let me know.

Anyways, here's Bassnectar:

No, I Do Not Want To Interview Bassnectar.

Here's Tim Westwood:

Tim Westwood = AWESOME

good idea!

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fifthgear/images/7/70/Tim_westwood.PNG/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/450?cb=20180520153702

let's not forget that Tim Westwood is only one year younger than Theresa May (another child of the clergy) and uses a lot more grecian 2000. The real tragedy is he when got shot, the bullet didn't go right through his testicles. It all seems to have gone quiet about him and his grooming game. What an utter stain.

Whippin hard! What's my ride out music? pic.twitter.com/znI67xOcLO

— TimWestwoodTV (@TimWestwood) June 10, 2020

he's supposedly got knocking on half a million followers yet his "whipping hard" tweet gets him 11 retweets ..hmmm

the Minneapolis hip hop scene had a crazy week of blowing with all sorts of abusers getting outed

https://www.brooklynvegan.com/doomtree-prof-others-respond-after-members-of-minneapolis-hip-hop-scene-accused-of-abuse/

pretty glaring free pass still given to surviving classic rockers about this, feels like a conversation people want to postpone indefinitely

yeah the independent radio station i used to do a show for would send out emails about not playing music by the ducktails guy (for example) when sexual abuse allegations came out, but then people would still play james brown and led zeppelin all the time

does listening to someone's music = giving them a pass? asking for a friend

not necessarily but fandom tends to do that especially when it gets loud enough to shout down critical voices

Prince is a big one no one wants to touch

I still fuck with Prince, David Bowie, Motley Crue. Nugent, Zeppelin, Aerosmith to lesser extent. I don't know why this is, but some of the songs are so emotionally resonant to me that I can't divorce myself from them. I honestly haven't even looked into what Prince has done.

idk if it's a specific one thing, or just the general consensus that he was a humongous asshole, often abusive. but i'll let ums confirm

I'm sure that Prince was a terrible asshole in many facets of his life.

including the time when he was the symbol that he told the press they had to use the special font he gave them when writing about him, send them the special font in a file, then tried to sue people for using it in articles anyway.

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1117-heres-every-battle-prince-waged-against-the-internet-and-the-music-industry/

The Tim Westwood thread shows that a whole lot of ILXors really did give a fuck about him.

idk if it's a specific one thing, or just the general consensus that he was a humongous asshole, often abusive. but i'll let ums confirm

― I hear that sometimes Satan wants to defund police (Neanderthal), Thursday, July 9, 2020 5:45 PM (fifty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

No I mean grooming underage women

In 1990, 16-year-old Garcia met Prince backstage in Barcelona after he saw a tape of her dancing. After she graduated high school in Germany at the age of 17, Prince became her legal guardian.[14][4] Upon moving to Minneapolis, Prince and members of his team helped set her up with her own apartment. "At first, I stayed at the Sofitel, then they moved me to a nice little prairie house at the Country Suites, but I couldn't even make a cup of tea there, so they got me an apartment and rented furniture," she said.[15] At the age of 19, Prince instructed her to get on birth control thus beginning their sexual relationship.[4] After a four-year courtship, they married on February 14, 1996.[16]

After she graduated high school in Germany at the age of 17, Prince became her legal guardian.

Ted Nugent pulled this same trick.

Oh, well...that part I didn't know. fuck!

xpost

xps to Tom

he is like funk flex yes, but singular and glorious in a way only england can be
― bob zemko (bob), Monday, 14 October 2002 07:27 (seventeen years ago) bookmarkflaglink

just imagine how singular and glorious funkmaster flex could have been if he was an upper middle class white English pedo still "doing it" at 62!

Nona Gaye was 18 when they started dating (allegedly started)

A woman I know knows a lot of people from Prince world, an R&B singer told her the story that Prince was producing her debut solo album in the early 80s

She had done vox on the Lipps Inc project and other things

Anyway

Prince demanded a blow job in the studio, she refused, he walked out, end of her solo career

re: Doomtree, this is 100% shallow but my reaction to them after their set at the first Eaux Claires festival was “these people are terrible and I wish them all nothing but ill fortune”; I’m just sorry that their implosion is built on so much abuse and suffering.

I'd prefer to keep Bowie, James Brown and Prince out of this not because they're too beloved, just cause they're dead that seems like a different category of queasiness. unless someone here is a necromancer-for-cancellation? surely we already have a "separating the art from the artist?" thread already

but obv I'm not gonna make an actual effort to thread-police

I hear that Gesualdo guy was an asshole.

and yet he's still being played every hour, on the hour, on classic rock radio, sickening

'Moro, lasso, al mio duolo' is an undeniable jam, though.

Do these kids walking about with his face on their t-shirts even know though?

https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.786988743.1102/ra,unisex_tshirt,x1860,101010:01c5ca27c6,front-c,336,366,600,600-bg,f8f8f8.jpg

Part of it is living in the middle of Minneapolis' Prince Industrial Complex and the endless hagiography gets old

Gesualdo is obviously cancelled in my book

didn't actually know any of the bad Prince stories, surprised i didn't see anyone make a lot of noise about them when he died

we all know rock n roll was partly built on this but it would be nice if we didn’t have to wait for the people to die, then wait for the mourning to die down, before any kind of minor reckoning with them. even nicer if it was their peers calling them out but that’s not happening & who else wants to deal with the threats

obv this is still going on in every genre/industry & statistically some of the ppl I like now are going to be creeps. which is shit but I’d rather know about it. lot more stuff is surely coming out soon, whether it will change anything idk. kids still love certain soundcloud dudes we knew about already. I hope they grow out of it

Worth noting that Rodney P and Ty (R.I.P) relentlessly told us of Tim Westwood’s predatory nature...no one listened. #SurvivingTimWestwood pic.twitter.com/FWGxLABWMQ

— Michael Morgan (@mikewhoatv) June 22, 2020

I'd been wondering how Westwood managed to stay so protected - from the viewpoint of 2020 it feels weird to think of the extent to which he was the biggest and pretty much only gatekeeper for any British MC (and the only person playing most rap music in the UK full stop). We're talking about a 20-30 year period of dominance here.

The even grimmer conclusion is that because he was primarily targeting young black girls, no one really cared.

I'm surprised there isn't more concerted anger directed against him from some of the bigger grime stars (unless I've missed it) because he needs dragging down, what he gets away with is outrageous.

mind you as a much as a joke character as he he seems, he still obv wields a lot of power and influence

seeming like a joke character seems to help many people who wield a lot of power & influence

Prime Ministers, for instance.

The Prince stories, while unsurprising, are really bumming me out.

yeah it's depressing
I did watch Purple Rain for the first time in probably 20 years on Netflix and that whole movie is a real grab bag of red flags though, yikes I was kinda shocked at how horrible The Kid came off

to your Doomtree post, I think those guys (except Dessa, I think she was in a different lane) were super hard drug abusers

I always felt like The Kid was supposed to look half horrible and not a model for behavior recommended by prince

but purple rain aside, djp otm. He was one of the few figures i would call a personal hero

its hard to process when a huge part, maybe the hugest part, of an artist's project is how sexuality fits into the universe they constructed

Yeah, my reading of Purple Rain was that The Kid was well on his way to becoming a piece of shit in the same vein as his father but music and Appolonia opened his eyes to his mistakes and gave him the strength to set his feet on a different path.

Also I don't mean to keep harping on this in the context of this thread but the Doomtree set was SO BAD, like half a step removed from Edina-Christian-youth-group-rapping-for-Jesus levels of bad

its hard to process when a huge part, maybe the hugest part, of an artist's project is how sexuality fits into the universe they constructed

I wouldn't say it's hard, rather that my take on it was that he was projecting a stage persona most of the time and I hoped/assumed he turned it off when it wasn't appropriate (which is of course naive when actually considered but still).

i'm starting to think that being a sexual predator / sexual power dynamics are like the quiet part of what being a successful pop star is or has always been about - the open secret. some people really seemed to relish it / some people were reluctant participants but obviously that doesn't change the end result - the pain of countless women (and queers) who suffered abuse.

'pop star' but also music industry exec etc.

this is a little out-of-bounds of this thread but i have my theories about why sexual abuse is so commonly done by people in these positions of power. part of it is the alienation of being an industrial exploiter in an exploitative capitalist framework - that very easily translates into sexual exploitation.

if they’re not that bad ooh they picked a really bad title

Uh...

https://variety.com/2024/music/news/sean-diddy-combs-homes-raided-sex-trafficking-investigation-1235951601/

“Holy shit” doesn’t quite cover it

(Though, given the recent news …)

https://ra.co/features/4325

Kamaal Williams

Oof, those allegations against The-Dream are really awful.

Someone shared the Diddy scene from Get Him To The Greek on FB, and good grief what a cursed image: Diddy chasing Jonah Hill & Russell Brand through a hotel!

So many creeps in that movie-- T.J. Miller, Mario Lopez, Billy Bush, Ricky Schroeder, Kurt Loder, Lars Ulrich

His bad acts have been reported over the years but this seems several degrees worse

https://pitchfork.com/news/the-dream-accused-of-rape-sexual-battery-sex-trafficking-in-new-lawsuit/

It also sounds like the tip of the iceberg

Lars???

^^^???

Sued his fans iirc

C'mon man

he was quoted as saying Weinstein was the tip of the iceberg

Anyway, that Kamaal Williams stuff is super fucked up, oof.

The Kamaal Williams accusations keep coming

This dude appears to be a grade-A scumbag

Fake Peckham gangster who is actually a posh boy who went to Dulwich College. And a grade-A scumbag.

I very briefly confused him w Kamasi Washington and was shocked but then I read more closely. This guy (not KW) sounds like a reeeeeal POS.

https://pitchfork.com/news/sean-diddy-combs-sued-for-alleged-sex-trafficking-at-parties/

https://www.instagram.com/p/C9MyUlvJACS/

julian koster (neutral milk hotel, the music tapes) is accused of grooming and sexual assault

this is something i have known about and kept schtum since 2017 out of respect for nesey. i realized a few years ago that i had a very unhealthy parasocial relationship with elephant 6 bands growing up, especially the music tapes; my youth, development, sense of identity, fashion, music, aesthetics etc. from around 15 to 25 was completely engrossed in and influenced by elephant 6. i would spend countless hours listening to and collecting every album in the catalogue, reading interviews and admiring these people so very much. in 2017, i was shattered when an 'ex' (ten years my senior, who also manipulated me) confessed the explicit truth of this matter to me. i remember throwing up that night; i was still very young, and couldn't cope with the stress for years afterwards. i was a bit of an underprivileged kid, and the songs and stories and world they put forward gave me so much hope. it's still sickening to read about this, and i haven't been able to listen to neutral milk hotel since.

Oh, man. 😣

how awful

fucking terrible

maelin i am sorry that you and your friend have had to go through this -- breaking your silence is the first step to recovery and i wish you the absolute best. it will get better <3

ah ty folks, i'm long over this and my life has very much moved on, it's just been a weird day since it's become public now

really awful, some pointed comments about Jeff in there as well.

truly awful

Ugh god. This makes me feel like I'm gonna throw up. He was somewhat of a mentor to me back in the day, and such a kind and generous person. Sure as fuck didn't try to groom me. It's devastating to find this out.

from personal interactions with them, i think the victim has a big ego - not to mention their work is extremely narcissistic - but i still choose to believe them. they confided this to friends years and years ago, and it's taken a great deal of courage to finally speak up about it, however clumsily they may have gone about it. i spent many, many hours reading into the personal lives of these people via friends, communities and internet blogs, and from photo archives and candid internet diaries there is absolutely zero question about how close they were. julian was 30 when he met 16 year old nesey, and there are many photos, songs and other media documenting their close relationship. he gives me the fucking creeps. he's a grown adult who behaves and acts with childlike naivete in ways reminiscent of michael jackson. i remember going to see the music tapes ten years ago (a few years after nesey fell out with them) and there was another young boy in his place on stage dressed exactly like him.

My default is to always believe the victim, of course. I am in no way implying I don't believe them. Just shocked.

I don't know Nesey and don't know anything about them* - I had moved from Athens by that time and never kept track of E6 stuff. Since then, whenever Julian would tour in various permutations and came to SF, he or someone else in their gang would put me on the list and I'd hang out with him (Music Tapes / Holiday Surprise / Neutral Milk / Olivias). Never noticed an E6 superfan groomer kid with him. But maybe the kid was around and I didn't notice. I've been in bands for decades now and kinda paranoid about what's happening that I don't notice. Like this.

Anyway... I'm not in touch with him and rarely see him, but at any point throughout the years, I never would have thought that about him. It sucks. Childlike naivete, yes to the max, but creepy... not at all in my experience.

*How is their work extemely narcissistic? Couldn't the very process of writing songs be narcissistic? I'm intrigued by that comment.

from personal interactions with them, i think the victim has a big ego - not to mention their work is extremely narcissistic - but i still choose to believe them. they confided this to friends years and years ago, and it's taken a great deal of courage to finally speak up about it, however clumsily they may have gone about it. i spent many, many hours reading into the personal lives of these people via friends, communities and internet blogs, and from photo archives and candid internet diaries there is absolutely zero question about how close they were. julian was 30 when he met 16 year old nesey, and there are many photos, songs and other media documenting their close relationship. he gives me the fucking creeps. he's a grown adult who behaves and acts with childlike naivete in ways reminiscent of michael jackson. i remember going to see the music tapes ten years ago (a few years after nesey fell out with them) and there was another young boy in his place on stage dressed exactly like him.

― maelin, Thursday, July 11, 2024 3:20 AM (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

yeah i think this is an important point, so often victims get judged on their _character_, there's this idea that SA is something Bad Abusers do to Good Victims. i mean am i _happy_ supporting TERFs against Neil Gaiman? no but Gaiman clearly did what the victim said he did, and TERFs are telling her story and advocating for her, and i'm grateful to them for doing that. nobody _deserves_ to be abused, no matter what problems they have. that's one of the things that keeps people in abusive relationships. that's literally a justification i used, "well, i've done bad things too", and i've seen a lot of other people use that same justification. whether intentionally or no, a lot of abusers _do_ go after the sorts of people who are _least_ likely to be believed. con artists have a say, "you can't cheat an honest man". that's their excuse. that's the narrative they build. their victims have the _ability_ to be exploited, and they use that to justify it. and they keep on doing the same thing, over and over again.

I've been in bands for decades now and kinda paranoid about what's happening that I don't notice. Like this.

― SA

it's _not your fault_ for not noticing. abusers to out of their way to hide what they're doing, while simultaneously working to make their victims believe that everybody knows and nobody cares. i was talking to... someone i knew well as a kid, who was sexually abused by an older kid i knew. and i talked to them, and they only had one question: how did you not know?

and all i can say is that people see what they want to see. i wasn't looking for it. i didn't expect it.

it reminds me of something very different... a lot of times when people come out as trans, people around us, parents particularly, say "but there were no signs!" and of course there weren't. i hid the signs. if i'd told people, they wouldn't have believed me. they would have talked like there was something wrong with me. but even if there had been signs... you know, most people don't _know_ the signs.

anyway. it sucks that this was going on and you didn't _notice_, but there were reasons you didn't notice, and most of them have nothing to do with you. and it's not your _responsibility_ to notice. it's good if someone does, but it's not up to you personally.

Michael Jackon a very good comparison.

JK has commented in an Instagram post now. I’m not good at linking to IG but should be easy to find.

Starting from the baseline of believing the victim, that is certainly a... bold statement to make.

(meaning JK's response)

koster's response is virtually shameless and revolting, it's very "i, me, my" and reeks of fear of being 'cancelled'. i'm sorry, you were "trapped" in an abusive relationship with someone you began dating when they were fifteen years your senior??? might i remind anyone that koster is the 'famous idol' in this situation, the power dynamic is clearly/has always been in their favour. i find it completely bizarre that fans are in denial and choosing to side with koster due to nesey's mental health. can nobody actually see that julian thinks he's some sort of peter pan figure here and always has done? it's all just so textbook. ultimately, there seems to be next to zero remorse on koster's part for taking advantage of a vulnerable child and he seems to be more intent on silencing nesey than listening. his response essentially reads "yes, me fucking a kid was weird, but now they're fucked up from it and won't stop messaging me so i must silence them." incredible.

junior, not senior*

https://www.stereogum.com/2271209/neutral-milk-hotels-julian-koster-accused-of-grooming-and-sexual-assault-by-elephant-6-musician-nesey-gallons/news/

This was just posted (there's been some discussion over the last couple of days on the Oxbow thread):

Niko Wenner, Oxbow update.

An accusation was leveled at me, Niko, during our 2024 European tour.

It’s probably not appropriate for me to give details since the allegation is still unresolved.

The alleged incident, said to have occurred in a crowd, involved only myself and the person making the accusation. None of the others in Oxbow were there.

The accusation led to the cancellation of the last 4 shows of our tour, all in France. I have always greatly enjoyed playing in France and I apologize to anyone who had intentions of seeing us there.

Eugene Robinson has at least for now left the band, as he has already made public in his latest substack article.

As it stands now Oxbow as a band no longer exists. Whether this is a permanent state of affairs remains to be seen.

Niko

FTR, I exchanged emails with Eugene after that Substack article went out, and offered him some advice, which started with this:

"Don't ever tell any more of the story than you just did. No 'music journalist' deserves to earn a byline off of your pain, especially not in the current devalued/degraded environment."

His response, which I didn't share until now, was:

"not so much my pain. but a criminal sexual assault. two actually. with niko being the accused. he denies it but there were witnesses. he prefers a plan that says "do nothing" and it will blow over. I don't."

i mean i'm gonna assume MrBeast hasn't had a thread before

i certainly don't think he deserves a thread _now_

i'm just glad i don't have to look at his creepy-ass shopped face staring at me every time i go to youtube or the grocery store

fucking creep

He’s a disparity and I am also happy to see him knocked down a bit, but afaict nothing he did rises to the level of this thread unless I really missed something.

lol at autocorrect changing “dipshit” to that

does MrBeast’s music even interact with “the industry” in any way, or is it all self-released through his existing youtube channel or whatever?

(I don’t know anything about either his sexual impropriety allegations or his music other than the above post)

I didn't know he did music

fuck-all if i know

all i know is that right now i have to look at his fucking creepy face even _more_ than i usually would because of whatever the fuck is happening

by the way i'm not denigrating his physical appearance, making creepy looking faces is his _personal brand_ for some fucking reason

and no he has nothing to do with music at all as far as i know. i don't know. is there a thread for people in general i don't give a fuck about?

I don't know anything about Mr. Beast except that every time I read his name I get this song stuck in my head

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkbBi8Vx8Jo

ohhhh this is great apparently the _trans woman_ who's his friend is doing bad things

joy

absolute fucking joy