Hoagy Carmichael - Heart and Soul

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A thread to collect versions of this undying classic, trace its history, and do the classic/dud/search/destroy thing.

Sund4r, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 02:34 (two weeks ago) link

Love Hoagy, although I never totally got this song, but really only know the doo wop version(s).

Robbie Shakespeare’s Sister Lovers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 02:40 (two weeks ago) link

The Cleftones. Interesting recording history. Some of the usual suspects- George Goldner, Morris Levy, Panama Francis on drums!

You forgot to mention lyrics by Frank Loesser.

Robbie Shakespeare’s Sister Lovers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 02:56 (two weeks ago) link

I became newly curious about this since I was asked to teach it twice (on different instruments) within a week or two fairly recently. My impression is that it is mostly known as a four-hands piano duet today (I-vi-IV-V arpeggios vs melody), and has been throughout my lifetime, but I actually don't know where this version originates. I haven't seen what Carmichael's original manuscript; there are a number of scores online that suggest that the harmony in the A section is more complex than the I-vi-IV-V piano version. However, this 1938 (year of publication) hit recording of it is really not far away and even in C major iirc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsIL07eOqOU .

For some reason, no one seems to play the last line of the A section ("and then we kissed in the night") when they do the piano duet; it's usually replaced by something far more on-the-nose, landing on the root note of every chord (e.g. C-B-A-G-F-A-G). I have no idea where this comes from. This was one of the early examples of a four-hands piano version I could find in pop culture; it does something like a loose jazzy version of this (lol at comments pointing out that it seems out of tune): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7lWf1AdACc

3xp OTM about Loesser's lyrics.

Sund4r, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 02:59 (two weeks ago) link

Ah, the Big version upthread does the on-the-nose turnaround thing in exactly one of the versions of it I come across. Neither that nor the Competition version, though, quite voice the chords as arpeggios in the way I'm used to.

Sund4r, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:02 (two weeks ago) link

Why 3xp?

Robbie Shakespeare’s Sister Lovers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:06 (two weeks ago) link

Ha, because I typed the post before the three previous posts had appeared but the OTM was in response to your immediately preceding post, it's true.

Sund4r, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:07 (two weeks ago) link

I've got to assume there is a ska/rocksteady version, right?

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:12 (two weeks ago) link

believe so, yes

1xp
Ah, almost figured that out but had a brain freeze.

Wonder if it challops to say this tune is not at the first rank of the work of either of the co-writers.

I want to ask my smart block-and-a-half away neighbor who was recently hanging with JBR what he thinks about this tune but then I would have to ask permission to quote him here so might not be worth it.

Robbie Shakespeare’s Sister Lovers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:13 (two weeks ago) link

I've got to assume there is a ska/rocksteady version, right?

Could only find this but it seems to be recent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYG6tjc6OGk

Robbie Shakespeare’s Sister Lovers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:16 (two weeks ago) link

So this came ... after "Blue Moon," right? Is that the first song with the doo wop chord progression?

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:19 (two weeks ago) link

I don't think that's a challops at all, James Redd et al.

Sund4r, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:30 (two weeks ago) link

Thanks. Was just being defensive, sorry.

So this came ... after "Blue Moon," right? Is that the first song with the doo wop chord progression?


Recorded as a doo woo song or ever?

For some reason, no one seems to play the last line of the A section ("and then we kissed in the night") when they do the piano duet; it's usually replaced by something far more on-the-nose, landing on the root note of every chord (e.g. C-B-A-G-F-A-G).

I had a similar experience if not entirely analogous situation when I was learning “Someday My Prince Will Come.” These days it’s mostly known, at least in some circles, for the Miles Davis recording which features a pedal tone in the bass, both in the into and the last four bars of the form. The original Snow White version, sung by Adriana Caselotti, has a bit of melody in those last four bars that’s kind of cheesy and operatic that’s almost always left out, as kind of a space. There is also at at least one version, by Etta Jones, that has a completely different melody there that resolves more pleasantly and a little more bluesily (is that even a word) perhaps.

Robbie Shakespeare’s Sister Lovers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:31 (two weeks ago) link

Creating a kind of space, I should say.

Robbie Shakespeare’s Sister Lovers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:32 (two weeks ago) link

I sang a barbershop version of this once in Forever Plaid, and because of this song's presence in living rooms, with many kids learning this as their first (or only) piano piece, there's way more going on in the song than people realize.

wasn't there a pop song last year that interpolated this?

sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:36 (two weeks ago) link

Dieterich Buxtehude
Good old Dieterich B. I remember when I first was learning German on the tape there was a dialogue with a nervous guy getting into a cab and talking with some kind of accent, telling the driver he was from Buxtehude and the British commentator commenting “that’s like saying he’s from the Back of Beyond.”

Robbie Shakespeare’s Sister Lovers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:40 (two weeks ago) link

Back to my derail/digression: so what happens is instead of playing the final “Someday my prince will come,” they shorten it to “Someday” and kind of lean on that.

Robbie Shakespeare’s Sister Lovers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:41 (two weeks ago) link

wasn't there a pop song last year that interpolated this?

Yeah, "Play That Song" by Train. Not gonna link to it tho. It's bad.

a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:45 (two weeks ago) link

That was TRAIN???

Jesus fucking christ.

sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:49 (two weeks ago) link

Will link to this, maybe one of the greatest lyrical references to one song found within another song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_zIRxB9HVo

"Oh my name is Penny Evans and my age is twenty-one
A young widow in the war that's being fought in Viet Nam
And I have two infant daughters and I do the best I can
Now they say the war is over, but I think it's just begun.

And I remember I was seventeen on the day I met young Bill.
At his father's grand piano, we'd play good old "Heart and Soul".
Well, I only knew the left hand part and he the right so well.
He's the only boy I've slept with and the only one I will.

It's first we had a baby girl, and we had two good years.
It was next the 1A notice came, and we parted without tears.
It was nine months from our last good bye our second babe appears.
So it's ten months and a telegram confirming all our fears.

And now every month I get a check from an Army bureaucrat.
And it's every month I tear it up and I mail the damn thing back.
Do you think that makes it all right, do you think I'd fall for that?
You can keep your bloody money, it sure won't bring my Billy back.

I never cared for politics, and speeches I don't understand.
Likewise never took no charity from any living man.
But tonight there's fifty thousand gone in that unhappy land,
And fifty thousand "Heart and Soul"s being played with just one hand.

Well, my name is Penny Evans and I've just gone twenty-one,
A young widow in the war that's being fought in Viet Nam,
And I have two infant daughters and I thank God I have no sons,
Now they say the war is over, but I think it's just begun."

a bevy of supermodels, musicians and Lena Dunham (C. Grisso/McCain), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 03:54 (two weeks ago) link

Hoagy was the model ian Fleming had for Bond in his novels. I read one of my uncles prefilm copies of one if them where he's directly compared in looks. Haven't read a later version of the same one to see if that was edited to anything more contemporary later.

Main thing related to him I listen to is the Stark Reality version of his children's songs.

Stevolende, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 09:27 (two weeks ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEnh6ObU_GY

calzino, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 10:44 (two weeks ago) link

This big band version, which is also from 1938 like the Larry Clinton, does use less straightforward triadic harmony, more what we would call 'jazz harmony' today (being careful bc I'm sure the Larry Clinton was also called "jazz" in 1938): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjBks71fQ70

Like the Bandits version upthread, interestingly, the chord progression is I-vi-ii-V instead of I-vi-IV-V, which does make the song more interesting imo since the melody then moves from the minor seventh to the fifth over ii rather than from the fifth to the third over IV. But this version also fills out the harmony, with I think a sixth over the I and at least diatonic sevenths over the other chords; obv some chromatic improvisation too.

Sund4r, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 13:27 (two weeks ago) link

The Bud Powell version is good!

Sund4r, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 13:33 (two weeks ago) link

Dying to click on it when I have time/InWalkedRedd

Robbie Shakespeare’s Sister Lovers (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 March 2020 13:46 (two weeks ago) link

The third chord in the Bach example on the wiki page should be analysed as ii[6/5] imo. The Mozart example comes p close to what the student piano H&S does!

The Goodman dong

Sund4r, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 17:22 (two weeks ago) link

*song suggests H&S was already known as a piano duet in the early 70s. I still don't know where that came from. Was it included in a popular instructional book?

Sund4r, Tuesday, 24 March 2020 17:23 (two weeks ago) link


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