Wearing a band's t-shirt to one of their concerts: Classic or Dud?

If I see a toddler at a show in a Swans shirt, I'm calling them a little fucking poser, and I don't care if they cry.

I wear band T-shirts (usually not for the band I’m seeing but maybe I have? Idk) and don’t care what other people are wearing at the show. It’s rare that a stranger talks to me without me talking to them first so that’s not a problem and the people I do talk to don’t give me shit for what I’m wearing so I don’t really see what the problem is. If someone is so uptight about me not knowing some invisible rules I’d sooner just avoid them than try to please them. Snobbery is very boring imo.

Sarahell otm about this idea that pretentious = a performance that makes you u comfortable for some reason (reasons may differ)

I think the difference when someone is using their kids to express their own personality/taste is that the kids aren’t really consenting to be part of the “performance,” they’re sort of being used as a prop. (It’s not a high crime or anything, though.)

I doubt they put that much thought into it

I found out that chemlab reformed when I told a random dude I liked his shirt. That was cool

where do you all stand on shirts for babies that have words on them

like, “This Is My Resting Burp Face”?

"Fuck the Police"

https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1YuhIfXuWBuNjSspnq6x1NVXaA/Hot-Casual-Kids-Baby-Boy-Girl-Novelty-RAP-T-shirt-COOL-Summer-Tee-Tops-1-6Y.jpg_q50.jpg

I just meant words in general not specifically unfunny memey stuff but I’m just trolling anyway

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--Jm2Ni35h--/t_Resized%20Artwork/c_crop,x_10,y_10/c_fit,w_470/c_crop,g_north_west,h_626,w_470,x_0,y_0/g_north_west,u_upload:v1462829017:production:blanks:qe3008lhp5hquxmwp4a0,x_-395,y_-325/b_rgb:eeeeee/c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1509003454/production/designs/2001556_1.jpg

i will agree that graphic tees with text worn by anyone who's not old enough to read are almost always kinda lame

I bought mine for my son last year.

Then I remembered I don't have kids

I’m just hoping nobody steals my “Resting Burp Face” idea, before I have a chance to jump on Etsy.

I mean... putting a Swans shirt on yr kid vs. a Ramones shirt or something signifies a certain smugness that can be discussed without having to unpack complex class issues ffs.

"A certain smugness" definitely sounds like code for "class issues" to me. I'm assuming there are a variety of types of smugness one can signal via clothing one's child: see the above images other people have posted. Maybe you have problems with those "lower class" items as well, and are only mentioning the band shirts because this is a thread about band shirts? I don't want to make assumptions.

i always love when the kid sees the pic years later and loudly proclaims that band sucks balls

I'm kinda creeped out by children dressed in fuzzy hoodie pajamas with animal ears and tails and less bothered by alt.rock.babby ... like, maybe your kid will grow up to be a fan of Swans or the Ramones. Your kid will not grow up to be a bear or a bunny rabbit.

not with that attitude

okay, maybe they need to make animal fuzzy pajamas with ears, tails, and the Animal Collective logo on the chest. Then we can join together in hating it.

kid-tested, ILX-disowned

sarahell, I am not understanding yr class-based analysis of these t-shirts at all(?)

which shirts?

xp hahaha

any of them!

when you see these shirts, do you think about what kind of parent(s) buy this for a child and dress their child in said garment? Do you perceive that the same parent could dress their kid in a Swans shirt one day and a "Troll hair don't care" shirt the next?

I feel like we've had hundreds of threads about this or related topics ... maybe someone can just link them?

"Promiscuous"

xp Yes, I do perceive that. I don’t really see different “class markers” in any of these shirts

Ok, don’t wanna open a can of worms if this is something that’s been talked out elsewhere

eh, it's just that in ILX's 20 year history, undoubtedly someone, or ilx collectively through discussion, has articulated this better than I would at 10am on a Sunday.

I will say this (to add color to my own p.o.v.): occasionally, I’ll see a Very Metal or Goth couple whose kid is dressed in a totally normie toddler style (conventional, colorful clothes), and I’ll think — cool, they’re on my wavelength; they’re not using their child as a canvas to express their own unique style, they’re letting him or her make that choice layer.

*later

(also want to stress, once again, that I don’t go around judging very harshly how anyone dresses their kid; I would just roll my eyes a bit at something like the Swans edge case.)

do you know the kid made that choice? Did you ask it?

all I'm getting at is -- we can find any mode of dressing a kid to be annoying and smug, even all the ways ... but the specific annoyance at Swans shirt babby, does seem to have class connotations.

Kids should be naked to respect their right to choose

I’m sorry, I will still need those class connotations explained!

And you may be missing my point — the kid didn’t make a choice to wear any particular clothes (I’m talking baby or young toddler here), so the couple dressed the kid in a “default” way. Obviously, it’s always the parent making the choice when the kid is that age.

here's something that could be useful:

http://www.icosilune.com/2009/01/paul-fussell-class/

I understand the concept of class markers, I don’t get how that applies to the Swans example.

(I’ve also explained why I specifically find it cringe-y, and it sounds like you’re saying, “No, you’re having a class-specific reaction, let me not explain it...”)

the link describes what some of the markers are, and how/where the Swans example and the "Troll Hair don't care" example would fit

I think my impression of Fussell's Class was that poetry scholars don't necessarily do the best sociology.

also, as individuals embedded in, or products of socio-economic classes, we are going to have class-specific reactions to things ... it's not like I'm saying you're racist and/or a bad person.

I guess you’ll have to take my word that the only difference I would infer about parents dressing those kids in those two shirts is that one likes the idea of advertising that they‘re into the Swans.

I'm also not clear on what the link says about Swans shirts, though.xps

I think my impression of Fussell's Class was that poetry scholars don't necessarily do the best sociology.

― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Sunday, February 16, 2020 10:47 AM (two minutes ago)

hahah -- fair point! There is definitely overlap between Fussell and Bourdieu fwiw

The legibility of messages on clothes is an important factor. The more legible the messages, the lower the class. Middle classes will wear things that they consider tasteful or “classy”, and thus are legible with the messages of taste and low key branding. Class signs and indicators are thus broadcast.

Are Swans tasteful or classy?

We are such fans of your music and all of your records. I'm not speaking of yours personally, but the whole genre of the rock and roll.

xp - in the context of children's wear, I would say yes, esp. if we are talking about the standard Swans album cover design that's like white text on a black background. Also, it shows a certain class anxiety, which is probably what the posters like morrisp are picking up on and finding annoying. Troll Hair babby is definitely prole. Cute denim jacket with patches of metal bands is also most likely prole. Ramones "RnR high school" babby, could be prole, but is likely middle class, because it is a "classic" design.

Full disclosure: my child is the only member of the family who has any interest in Swans whatsoever.

Full disclosure: I do not have children.

Prole Hair Don’t Care: Tracing Class Markers in Unlicensed Animated Character T-Shirts