I thought this essay on Wagner and his anti-Semitism (or, rather, anti-Judaism, as the author concludes) was really great, avoiding simplistic takes and looking in depth at the work, the ideas, and the history (and I often roll my eyes wrt discussions of this topic): https://mosaicmagazine.com/essay/uncategorized/2015/01/wagner-and-the-jews/
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Sunday, 5 January 2020 20:31 (nine months ago) link
(h/t Oor Neechy)
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Sunday, 5 January 2020 20:33 (nine months ago) link
It's five years old but new to me.
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Sunday, 5 January 2020 20:41 (nine months ago) link
Its not new but it is a very good read. I'm not really familiar with Wagners music though.
― Dog Is Daed (Oor Neechy), Sunday, 5 January 2020 20:42 (nine months ago) link
Good piece indeed, even though there are grounds for quibbling here and there. For instance, Mendelssohn was baptized and wrote quite a bit of explicitly Christian music, so Wagner's anti-semitism went beyond opposition to Judaism.
― pomenitul, Monday, 6 January 2020 02:13 (nine months ago) link
Alex Ross's big Wagner book is finally coming out this year, so I'll read this now and think about it again later, probably.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Monday, 6 January 2020 02:28 (nine months ago) link
Not sure if this fits in on this thread, but has anyone listened to Ekmeles: A Howl That Was Also A Prayer?
― idgaf (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 7 January 2020 17:28 (nine months ago) link
It definitely fits. I just started listening to it. I'd never heard of Taylor Brook but he is apparently a young Canadian composer and McGill grad? Cool.
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Tuesday, 7 January 2020 20:10 (nine months ago) link
Listening to a really cool solo organ album with terrible cover art. Some seriously swoopy prog-rock noises going on here.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 8 January 2020 00:59 (nine months ago) link
Sorry, here's the terrible cover art in question:
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 8 January 2020 01:00 (nine months ago) link
There's far worse tbf. Anyway, I haven't heard the album but Finns are ever reliable composers.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 8 January 2020 01:10 (nine months ago) link
The album's really good in a "let's freak out the neighbor's pets" sort of way. Not subtle stuff by any stretch.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 8 January 2020 01:13 (nine months ago) link
Roxy, I've listened to it a couple of times (always while doing something else) and am finding it interesting. There are definitely things to enjoy. The effects and resonances Brook gets from the microtonal motion of voices are very cool and reminded me a little of Qasim Naqvi's Fjoloy. Thw changing vowel shapes show a definite throat singing influence. I really liked the Gee piece: like choral clicks and cuts at times but juxtaposed with more sustained resonant material and those piercing overtones. Great range of timbres and to the point. I think I am still getting a handle on everything that's going on with the Trapani piece in terms of how the voices, electronics, and text are working together but there are pretty moments.
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Wednesday, 8 January 2020 21:30 (nine months ago) link
i find the spoken portions in Brook's portion sound almost...parodic? i don't know, they rubbed me the wrong way and took me out of it at times. love how all the microtonal stuff sounds juxtaposed with a kind of ars antiqua sound. i enjoyed the little tricks like the bird sounds, and the dial tone (i'm pretty sure that was vocal?) in Trapani's piece, i'm a nut for that kind of thing.
― idgaf (roxymuzak), Thursday, 9 January 2020 17:53 (nine months ago) link
Yeah, the connection between the text and music in the Brook isn't clear to me either. If I focus on the text, it does take me out of the music as well. If I listen for the sound, which is how I listen to it most of the time, the spoken word doesn't bother me but I'm also basically tuning out the text. Someone who knows more about contemporary literature than I do might be getting more out of it? I agree with your comment about the medieval allusions as well.
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Thursday, 9 January 2020 20:27 (nine months ago) link
I see New Focus are also putting out an album by Yale guitarist/composer Ben Verdery, with "Scenes from Ellis Island" as the featured track on Bandcamp here: https://newfocusrecordings.bandcamp.com/album/ben-verdery-scenes-from-ellis-island . I had the opportunity to play in a performance of this piece last August and it's a little surprising to hear this version, which is notably different, with a more stripped down guitar 'ensemble' (I'm guessing overdubs of the two guitarists), a female singer, and no electric guitar solo. The version I played in (also led by Verdery) was closer to the style of these: https://youtu.be/MwA2BnD7L6w + https://youtu.be/vvEVD-XWwmU . New version sounds beautiful but seems too polite.
― Un sang impur (Sund4r), Thursday, 9 January 2020 20:39 (nine months ago) link
Coming up in March: Barbara Hannigan's take on Gérard Grisey's Quatre chants pour franchir le seuil. Yessss
― pomenitul, Saturday, 11 January 2020 16:01 (nine months ago) link
I have a download of her doing that live with the NYPO. It’s excellent.
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Saturday, 11 January 2020 18:59 (nine months ago) link
Oh, that's exciting.
― One must put up barriers to keep oneself intact (Sund4r), Sunday, 12 January 2020 00:06 (nine months ago) link
― pomenitul, Monday, 20 January 2020 13:19 (nine months ago) link
So these are the compositions up for a Grammy tonight. There are a few composers I like a fair bit but I haven't actually listened to any of these yet.:
Berme: Migration Series For Jazz Ensemble & Orchestra, Derek Bermel, composer (Derek Bermel, Ted Nash, David Alan Miller, Juilliard Jazz Orchestra & Albany Symphony Orchestra)Higdon: Harp Concerto, Jennifer Higdon, composer (Yolanda Kondonassis, Ward Stare & The Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra)Marsalis: Violin Concerto in D Major, Wynton Marsalis, composer (Nicola Benedetti, Cristian Măcelaru & Philadelphia Orchestra)Norman: Sustain, Andrew Norman, composer (Gustavo Dudamel & Los Angeles Philharmonic)Shaw: Orange, Caroline Shaw, composer (Attacca Quartet)Wolfe: Fire in My Mouth, Julia Wolfe, composer (Jaap Van Zweden, Francisco J.Núñez, Donald Nally, The Crossing, Young People's Chorus Of NY City & New York Philharmonic)
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Monday, 27 January 2020 03:20 (eight months ago) link
And Higdon won, it seems. I remember liking her Zaka quite a bit. I'm interested in new harp music. Look forward to hearing this.
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Monday, 27 January 2020 03:27 (eight months ago) link
I know the cellist from the Attacca Qtet, very cool that they got a nomination
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Monday, 27 January 2020 05:14 (eight months ago) link
I don't know Higdon, but the Grammys nominating Norman, Shaw, Wolfe and Marsalis is honestly better than expected. Though there's probably still people out there complaining serialism got snubbed.
― Frederik B, Monday, 27 January 2020 08:38 (eight months ago) link
Though there's probably still people out there complaining serialism got snubbed.
*Well, not quite, insofar as serialism is hardly progressive these days and hasn't been for a long time – just another tool in the contemporary composer's shed – but I do find this list of nominees rather and safe and yawn-inducing and American-centric. Not that I expect anything else from the Grammy Awards regardless of category. As a side note, I will no doubt get eviscerated for including none of these composers in the upcoming late 20th/early 21st century decade polls, but when canonical consensus becomes more problematic than ever, I think it's best to own up to one's more subjective intuitions. But we should be fine up until the… 1990s, maybe?
― pomenitul, Monday, 27 January 2020 09:24 (eight months ago) link
― pomenitul, Monday, 27 January 2020 09:27 (eight months ago) link
You kinda have to have Partita and Play on there... And Beyond Ocean. Don't fill it up with US hipster stuff, but those three have to be on there imo.
No, it's definitely American-centric, but it's the Grammys, so. I think it's pretty amazing that Andrew Norman is considered safe, and you're probably right, he is, but Play to me is still wtf-just-hit-me incredible.
― Frederik B, Monday, 27 January 2020 09:31 (eight months ago) link
I don't like Partita and haven't heard Play but as a merciful poll god I will likely include them nonetheless (the former for sure, as its impact is undeniable).
Beyond Ocean will definitely make it – I'm a JLA fan.
― pomenitul, Monday, 27 January 2020 09:34 (eight months ago) link
I honestly think you might like Andrew Norman. It's pretty crazy. And he has been good at explaining what is new, I've used quotes from him in a couple of film reviews.
― Frederik B, Monday, 27 January 2020 09:37 (eight months ago) link
Sold. I've added him to my list.
― pomenitul, Monday, 27 January 2020 09:43 (eight months ago) link
We're talking about the awards given out by an organization of leading figures in the US commercial recording industry so, yes, it's going to be US-slanted and on the safer side. (They're notoriously stuffy even about pop music.) Maybe I should raise my standards but tbh I'm just impressed that they nominate new music at all every year. I've written two serial pieces in the last few years but you could definitely get MORE conservative than Norman/Shaw/Wolfe/Higdon.
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Monday, 27 January 2020 13:22 (eight months ago) link
Maybe I should raise my standards but tbh I'm just impressed that they nominate new music at all every year.
Realistically speaking, it's pretty cool that they even so much as acknowledge the field.
― pomenitul, Monday, 27 January 2020 13:30 (eight months ago) link
I reviewed a new album of organ music - Susanne Kujala's Organ Music of the 21st Century. It's really good.
― shared unit of analysis (unperson), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 13:25 (eight months ago) link
Yeah, I remember you mentioning it upthread. I'll check it out, thanks.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 28 January 2020 13:37 (eight months ago) link
Peter Serkin just passed away. He was an extraordinary pianist, as comfortable in Webern, Messiaen and Takemitsu as he was in the mainstream canonical classics. I don't think I've ever heard a recording of his that I didn't like. He will be missed.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Sunday, 2 February 2020 10:25 (eight months ago) link
Just saw that news myself A rather underrecorded pianist unfortunately
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 2 February 2020 18:49 (eight months ago) link
Unsuk Chin wins the Sonning award for 2021. They continue their good run, after Hans Abrahamsen in 2019 and Barbara Hannigan in 2020.
I think I have a ticket for the Hannigan award gala. She is doing most of Crazy Girl Crazy, both Berg and Gershwin.
― Frederik B, Monday, 3 February 2020 18:19 (eight months ago) link
Happy to hear it! I haven't kept up with her recent work at all but she remains an incredible composer.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Monday, 3 February 2020 18:20 (eight months ago) link
i need her to record schoenberg op. 10. I have a live capture but the sound has probz
― valet doberman (Jon not Jon), Monday, 3 February 2020 18:25 (eight months ago) link
if they're not grossly underrehearsed it shouldn't count!
quick nerd question, Sveshnikov's recording of "All-Night Vigil", there's only one of those from '65, right? the recordings i'm finding are dated '73 but i don't know if that's just when they released it in the west...
― you know my name, look up the number of the beast (rushomancy), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 01:04 (eight months ago) link
I'm fairly confident it's the same recording.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 09:28 (eight months ago) link
i sort of figured so, thanks!
in between superficially checking out some of the decade poll stuff i am unfamiliar with (there's too much for me to absorb it all!) i've been getting more into ars subtilior... at least the quantity of this stuff is more manageable, as far as i can tell most of it comes down to the codex chantilly. lots of different recordings, but that's all for the better.
― you know my name, look up the number of the beast (rushomancy), Wednesday, 5 February 2020 14:27 (eight months ago) link
Fascinating to see/hear the Ensemble Intercontemporain play Takemitsu:
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Friday, 7 February 2020 14:28 (eight months ago) link
Nice little article on classical guitar in Ottawa/Gatineau: https://www.cbc.ca/music/how-ottawa-gatineau-became-canada-s-classical-guitar-capital-1.5446054?fbclid=IwAR2enJHj_zlw9J_alaTNeiX_gtyYxDwQb_nfEK1mwkl5ogXXOqY4ykUJ8lQ
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Friday, 7 February 2020 14:34 (eight months ago) link
Cool. Do you think you might go to any of those festival concerts?
― jmm, Friday, 7 February 2020 15:55 (eight months ago) link
The Saturday night Perroy concert would probably be easiest since I work during most of the others. Friday night possibly but Feb 14 is, uh, not necessarily the best day to make plans to bro down over nylon strings.
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Friday, 7 February 2020 16:12 (eight months ago) link
Cool article, and I enjoyed the YT embeds as well.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Friday, 7 February 2020 16:39 (eight months ago) link
A couple nights ago I saw this piece by Quebec composer Jacques Hétu, based on the occupation of France. I thought the choral movement (4. Liberté), with text by Paul Éluard, was really gorgeous. Julie Payette was in the choir, randomly.
― jmm, Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:16 (eight months ago) link
I've always been a bit wary of him as he is championed by reactionaries such as Le Devoir's resident classical music critic, and I have little patience for straight Neo-classicism in general, but I'll check it out anyway.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:24 (eight months ago) link
Went to the P2 Award Gala last saturday. It opened with the winner of the Talent award, 24-year old Gustav Piekut, playing Debussy's L'Isle Joyeuse, and I think the video works: https://www.facebook.com/drp2/videos/180211973206107/
Other award winners included Event of the year going to Hans Abrahamsens 'Snedronningen', which, duh. Best New Music album was Nordic String Quartet for a recording of string quartets by Pelle Gudmundsen-Holmgren. I'm not saying what won Best Danish Album, because you can all figure it out, even more duh. Yeah, that album, an Abrahamsen opera, Piekut beginning to break through. Classical is doing pretty damn well in Denmark at the moment.
― Frederik B, Monday, 10 February 2020 10:58 (eight months ago) link
I'd be interested! (Though I go AWOL a lot and miss stuff. Not least that notated music poll, despite submitting nominations! o_0 )
― Nag! Nag! Nag!, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 11:55 (three weeks ago) link
I would watch! I’m not versed broadly enough in X to vote. I will say that Persephassa live in Central Park was one of the peak live music experiences of my life.
― and i can almost smell your PG Tips (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 12:31 (three weeks ago) link
Alternatively, we could do a dedicated chronological listening thread, Shakey-style.
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 13:47 (three weeks ago) link
Oh, that sounds fun.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 13:54 (three weeks ago) link
And it doesn't have to be Xenakis (although I, for one, would be into it). We can nominate a few composers, then poll them to secure a consensus.
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 13:56 (three weeks ago) link
i'd be into a dedicated xenakis thread — perhaps as a precursor to a ballot poll ?
― budo jeru, Wednesday, 23 September 2020 21:19 (three weeks ago) link
Excellent idea! Any other prospective participants?
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Wednesday, 23 September 2020 21:27 (three weeks ago) link
Ha, thought so.
In other news, John Luther Adams's Lines Made by Walking and untouched, played by the ever-reliable JACK Quartet, both sound like unabashed Pärt riffs, and I'm totally cool with that.
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Thursday, 24 September 2020 18:11 (three weeks ago) link
Oh I'd be up for it!
― Monte Scampino (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 24 September 2020 18:14 (three weeks ago) link
Well, ok, untouched less so due to the microtonal inflections, but still.
xp excellent, so I guess that makes… six of us?
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Thursday, 24 September 2020 18:20 (three weeks ago) link
Iannis Xenasix, Metastasix, The Dämmerschein Six. The possibilities are endless!
― Monte Scampino (Le Bateau Ivre), Thursday, 24 September 2020 19:25 (three weeks ago) link
John Luther Adams/JACK Quartet and three compositions inspired by slowly trudging across vast landscapes. I'm up for some of that!
― calzino, Thursday, 24 September 2020 21:14 (three weeks ago) link
Speaking of JLA and vast landscapes, Become River, Become Ocean and Become Desert have just been re-released as a trilogy.
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Thursday, 24 September 2020 21:17 (three weeks ago) link
For some reason, I just don't find myself going back to his works very much, although I own four of his albums and listened to all of them in the years of release. Not sure what it is.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Thursday, 24 September 2020 21:48 (three weeks ago) link
I think of him as an ambient composer.
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Thursday, 24 September 2020 22:13 (three weeks ago) link
I'd be up for whatever kind of dedicated listening thread, Xenakis or et al., you all devise (I'm certainly not knowledgeable enough to participate in a poll though) provided it doesn't start until next week.
On that note, in the free time I'm about to finally have, I was idly thinking about listening through pom's classical polls: each top 3 or something...I haven't thought about the logistics at all, just been wanting to do a more dedicated listen to classical than I ever have. This project might be slightly more likely to actually happen if someone joins me—I could start a thread if anyone thinks they'd be into commenting/playing along/making fun of my taste?
― rob, Thursday, 24 September 2020 22:53 (three weeks ago) link
Rolling classical threads don't see much action anyway, so feel free to keep us posted here, if you prefer.
Starting with the top 3 results of each decade poll up until, say, 1940, is not a bad way to do it – thanks for the vote of confidence! I wouldn't approach it too systematically, though, so if I were you I'd give myself some wiggle room to periodically put those polls on the back-burner and just keep exploring whichever composer and/or compositional genre you jive with the most along the way.
I have no musical training to speak of and can't tell an A apart from a C, so I just got into classical because I liked what I heard (Shostakovich's 8th String Quartet was the catalyst). There's some theoretical stuff I amateurishly picked up along the way just by listening (and reading, although that doesn't extend to actual sheet music), but simply paying attention and being moved by certain pieces is what did it for me – as with all other types of music, really, although classical does perhaps require you to focus a bit more before it opens up, which is part of what I like about it tbh, especially now that I'm finding it increasingly more difficult not to be scatterbrained as digital electronics, with their infinite potential for multi-tasking (aka distraction), encroach on my listening habits to an unsettling degree.
― sock solipsist (pomenitul), Thursday, 24 September 2020 23:37 (three weeks ago) link
Thanks for the encouragement, pom! Excited for this, it's really going to improve my pretentious, ivory-tower-dwelling elitist snob game :)
I've just started listening and since the first piece is a total obscurity called Beethoven's 'Pastoral' (two thumbs up), I have a question: do any of you have a go-to source/guide for deciding which recording to listen to?
I'm currently listening to Karl Böhm and the Wiener Philharmoniker as it was the first one that came up when I searched. I don't have any complaints...it might be a little soft? It's called Pastoral though so that seems appropriate. [ok, I just got to the storm section...never mind, this is properly dynamic]
I know "Pastoral" fairly well actually, though not to the level of having any kind of perspective on the interpretative work Böhm might be doing. But an anxiety I always have with big canon classical is that I'm not listening to the "best" recording--I know the answer is probably: just listen to it and if you like it try some others, but I'm wondering if there's a relatively trustworthy guide I'm not aware of. Even just searching for this music on streaming services is a nightmare--instant nostalgia for the CD racks at my public library growing up (which I largely ignored on my way to the sci-fi section lol).
Other than a recording guide, I'd be curious if anyone has any book recommendations? Not quite sure what I have in mind, but, for example, I have an unread copy of Alex Ross's The Rest Is Noise that I plan to at least dip into when I get to the 20th c.
Also, thank you to the poll voters, "Pastoral" was a rather pleasant way to start the project and my morning.
― rob, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 13:27 (two weeks ago) link
Sadly neither The Penguin guides nor the gramophone guides are still printed they have their limitations of course (bias towards British performers) but used ones could help you start exploring. With Spotify it’s so easy to compare performances and see which one moves you the most. Then you can go down the rabbit hole of “traditional” vs. “historically informed performance”, etc. Bohm would represent the former, for example. Huge orchestra, 20th century instruments. Right now for Beethoven I’m enjoying Frans Brüggen and the Orchestra of the 18th Century for a “ historically informed” approach. It’s quite delightful!
― Boring, Maryland, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 14:10 (two weeks ago) link
an anxiety I always have with big canon classical is that I'm not listening to the "best" recording
I can certainly relate to this. Starting out, there were certain canonical works I couldn't get into at all until I found the right recording, so the stakes are high and therefore stressful! Honestly, I'd say it's a process of trial and error: if you feel like Böhm's take on the Pastoral is too leisurely (and it really is), you can check out a swifter, more youthful version such as Claudio Abbado's live recording with the Berlin Philharmonic (that's probably my go-to Beethoven Symphonies cycle btw, although it tells an ineluctably partial tale and could never suffice on its own). But yeah, I'd say it helps to read online reviews and get a sense of which interpretation best matches your view of the work and/or the composer's aesthetic, and that takes time. But it's also a lot of fun, and the realization that you only disliked/failed to get important composition x because subpar recording(s) y or z had misled you is one of my favourite things about exploring classical music. You'll also start to get a better feel for who your favourite performers are, and they can usually guide you through other composers' oeuvres as well.
As for The Rest Is Noise, I think it's a good read, but its narrative is extremely US-centric, which may or may not appeal to you. I personally found that aspect of it quite insufferable, especially when he suggests that while fascism may have threatened to destroy European music, the US heroically swooped in to save the day, expanding the modernist idiom beyond what was previously thought possible (which is true), as though aesthetic breakthroughs had just ceased in the so-called Old World (which is bullshit). If you look past that borderline jingoistic reading of history, however, and supplement it with, say, Paul Griffiths's Modern Music and After for the postwar period, it's definitely worth your while because it does help make up for the unsurprisingly Eurocentric approaches that thrive on the other side of the pond (I mind those way less, but that's my own personal bias showing).
Oh, and I almost forgot about the guides. I just just saw that the latest entry in The Guardian's 'Know the Score' series was added this morning – on Schubert, incidentally – and it occurs to me that it's not a bad place to start, even though I don't really care for Andrew Clements's list of great Beethoven performers. Not that it matters in the end – you're bound to feel differently from both me and Clements after listening to different recordings, and that's precisely the beauty of it:
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 14:29 (two weeks ago) link
xp to B,M: Brüggen is good! I really enjoy his Mozart too, and I usually don't like Mozart all that much.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 14:30 (two weeks ago) link
Haha, the Griffiths was the textbook when I took late 20th c music history in undergrad (not sure why tbh since the prof was far from being a Boulez-obsessed Europhile) - Ross's take is almost a breath of fresh air in comparison, but yeah, the two have opposite biases. I find the Griffiths a little dry and rarefied, though - I wouldn't even assign it to undergrad music students myself.
What I did assign is Joseph Auner and Walter Frisch - Music in the Twentieth and Twenty-First Centuries, which involves a little more notation and technical musical info than Ross but certainly no more than Griffiths. I think it's very good, thorough, and up-to-date; American but not as slanted in its coverage as Ross; touches on the relationships between these movements and popular styles as well.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 30 September 2020 14:46 (two weeks ago) link
I was hoping you’d chime in! The Auer sounds like an excellent recommendation indeed. Ex-ILXor Tim Rutherford-Johnson’s Music After the Fall also seems like a great read if you’re interested in contemporary (post-1989) music, but I’ve yet to read it myself.
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 14:52 (two weeks ago) link
― pomenitul, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 14:53 (two weeks ago) link
Ha, I didn't know he was an ilxor!
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Wednesday, 30 September 2020 19:29 (two weeks ago) link
wow these are such helpful responses, thank you! I'll try to respond more fully at some point but I really appreciate the guidance
― rob, Wednesday, 30 September 2020 23:00 (two weeks ago) link
Alex Bougie doing a concert of contemporary guitar music here rn: https://www.twitch.tv/concertsfortheendoftime . Should be archived. I'll pass on the link.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Saturday, 3 October 2020 23:35 (two weeks ago) link
Ha, he's playing a progressive metal-inspired piece by Bredeson rn that was introduced with "time to djent". A lot of palm-muted downstrokes.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Sunday, 4 October 2020 00:03 (two weeks ago) link
I've bitched about Ross before but if there's one thing you can't say about The Rest Is Noise, it's that it doesn't give Sibelius his much-deserved due. I mean, it's one of the book's most memorable aspects, and I read it more than a decade ago. Nielsen does get a bit shortchanged, though.
In other news, I'm happy to see Ross rep for Bára Gísladóttir.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 11 October 2020 14:02 (one week ago) link
Ha, I think Ross's adoration of Sibelius was the first thing I commented on after reading that book.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Sunday, 11 October 2020 16:04 (one week ago) link
― Boring, Maryland, Sunday, 11 October 2020 16:24 (one week ago) link
The only Adornian musical challop I vaguely agree with is that Stravinsky is overrated. He was utterly wrong about Sibelius, though, and even wronger about jazz, although I have read some spirited defences of his disdain for the latter, the argument being that he disliked not so much the 'artsier' jazz that was still to come (a debatable claim to begin with), and that he never deigned explore anyway, but rather the swingy and commercial big bands of the 1930s and 1940s, which to him were just the noise made by American capitalism.
Anyway, Philippe Lacoue-Labarthe had a good piece about the ambiguity of Entkunstung (dis-artification? Lacoue-Labarthe gives a punny translation in the original French: désart), a concept Adorno utilized to deny jazz the mantle of 'art' and that paradoxically plays an essential role in Adorno's own understanding of modern art as deliberately turning on itself and running the risk of self-destruction, which perhaps implies that jazz is, in fact, the most modernist art of all according to Adorno. But I digress…
― pomenitul, Sunday, 11 October 2020 16:57 (one week ago) link
he disliked not so much the 'artsier' jazz that was still to come (a debatable claim to begin with), and that he never deigned explore anyway, but rather the swingy and commercial big bands of the 1930s and 1940s, which to him were just the noise made by American capitalism
Isn't this true? I always thought he was writing about the pop music of the 30s and 40s, essentially - big bands and crooners, mainly. The tunes he refers to by name are "Deep Purple" and "Sunrise Serenade".
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Sunday, 11 October 2020 17:07 (one week ago) link
I mean, I don't think he was a fan of bebop or free jazz either but I doubt it would have been for the same reasons?
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Sunday, 11 October 2020 17:08 (one week ago) link
He seemed unwilling to engage with jazz beyond those commercial acts, so I think it's fair to take him to task for a stubborn shortsightedness that he never really made up for even later in life. He 'figured it out' in the 1930s and never departed from that assessment.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 11 October 2020 17:17 (one week ago) link
Actually, I just came across this quote of Adorno's (from 1953) where he explicitly rejects the distinction between commercial jazz and its other:
The real conflict is about the distinction between 'authentic' and 'commercial' Jazz, which is, according to Berndt, 'foundational for any study of jazz'. He thinks that this discussion is not known to me, but my essay attacked it and therefore cannot accept its demand.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 11 October 2020 17:23 (one week ago) link
Oops, forgot to block quote it.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 11 October 2020 17:24 (one week ago) link
Ah, OK, I haven't read that 1953 piece.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Sunday, 11 October 2020 17:38 (one week ago) link
Fuck adorno tbh
― covidsbundlertanze op. 6 (Jon not Jon), Sunday, 11 October 2020 22:44 (one week ago) link
― budo jeru, Sunday, 11 October 2020 23:17 (one week ago) link
anyway ... xenakis listening thread ?
I’m still up for it.
― pomenitul, Monday, 12 October 2020 00:12 (one week ago) link
List of works from Oxford Music Online (somehow I didn't know or remember that Kraanerg was written for the opening of the NAC and was premiered here!):
Orchestral:Anastenaria: le sacrifice, orch (51 insts), 1953, sketchMetastaseis, 1953–4; SWF SO, cond. H. Rosbaud, Donaueschingen, 16 Oct 1955Pithoprakta, 1955–6; Bavarian RSO, cond. H. Scherchen, Munich, 8 March 1957Achorripsis, 21 insts, 1956–7; Colón cond. Scherchen, Buenos Aires, 20 July 1958Duel, 2 small orchs, 1959; Radio Hilversum PO, cond. D. Masson and F. Terby, Hilversum, 18 Oct 1971Syrmos, 12 vn, 3 vc, 3 db, 1959; Ensemble Instrumental de Musique Contemporaine, cond. Simonović, Paris, 20 May 1969Stratégie, 2 small orchs, 1959–62; Venice Festival Orchestra, cond. B. Maderna and C. Simonović, 25 April 1963ST/48, 48 insts, 1959–62; Orchestre Philharmonique de l’ORTF, cond. L. Foss, Paris, 21 Oct 1968Akrata, 16 wind, 1964–5; cond. Simonović, Paris, 1965Terretektorh, 1966; Orchestre Philharmonique de l’ORTF, cond. Scherchen, Royan, 3 April 1966Polytope, 4 orch groups, 1967; Ensemble Instrumental de Musique Contemporaine, cond. Simonović, Montreal, Expo 67, 1967Nomos gamma, 1967–8; Orchestre Philharmonique de l’ORTF, cond. C. Bruck, Royan, 4 April 1969Kraanerg (ballet), orch, tape, 1968; Ottawa, June 1969Synaphaï, pf, orch, 1969; Pludermacher, cond. M. Tabachnik, Royan, 6 April 1971Antikhthon (ballet), 1971; cond. Tabachnik, Bonn, Festival Xenakis, 21 Sept 1974Eridanos, 8 brass, str orch, 1973; Ensemble Européen de Musique Contemporaine cond. Tabachnik, La Rochelle, 13 April 1973Erikhthon, pf, orch, 1974; C. Helffer, Orchestre de l’ORTF, cond. Tabachnik, Paris, 21 May 1974Noomena, 1974; Orchestre de Paris, cond. G. Solti, Paris, 16 Oct 1974Empreintes, 1975; Netherlands Radio PO, cond. Tabachnik, La Rochelle, 29 June 1975Jonchaies, 1977; Orchestre National de France, cond. Tabachnik, Paris, 21 Dec 1977Aïs, amp Bar, perc, orch, 1980; S. Sakkas, Gualda, Bavarian RSO, cond. Tabachnik, Munich, 13 Feb 1981Pour les baleines, str, 1982; Orchestre Colonne, cond. D. Masson, Orléans, 2 Dec 1983Lichens, 1983; Liège PO, cond. Bartholomée, Liège 16 April 1984Shaar, str, 1983; Jerusalem Sinfonietta, cond. J.- P. Izquierdo, Tel Aviv, 3 Feb 1983Alax, 3 ens of 10 insts (fl, cl, 2 hn, trbn, hp, perc, vn, 2 vc), 1985; Ensemble Modern, Ensemble Köln, Gruppe Neue Musik Hanns Eisler, cond. E. Bour, Cologne, 15 Sept 1985Horos, 1986; Japan PO, cond. H. Iwaki, Tokyo, 24 Oct 1986Keqrops, pf, orch, 1986; R. Woodward, New York PO, cond. Z. Mehta, New York, 13 Nov 1986Ata, 1987; SWF SO, cond. M. Gielen, Baden-Baden, 3 May 1988Tracées, 1987; Orchestre National de Lille, cond. J.-C. Casadeus, Paris, 17 Sept 1987Kyania, 1990; Montpellier PO, cond. Z. Peskó, Montpellier, 7 Dec 1990Tuorakemsu, 1990; Shinsei Nippon Orchestra, cond. H. Iwaki, Tokyo, 9 Oct 1990Dox-Orkh, vn, orch, 1991; Arditti, BBC SO, London, cond. A. Tamayo, Strasbourg, 6 Oct 1991Krinòïdi, 1991; Orchestra Sinfonica dell’Emilia-Romagna ‘Arturo Toscanini’, cond. R. Encinar, Parma, May 1991Roáï, 1991; Berlin RSO, cond. O. Henzold, Berlin, 24 March 1992Troorkh, trbn, orch, 1991; C. Lindberg, Swedish RSO, cond. E.-P. Salonen, Stockholm, 26 March 1993Mosaïques, 1993; Orchestre des Jeunes de la Méditerranée, cond. Tabachnik, Marseilles, 23 July 1993Dämmerschein, 1993–4; Cologne RSO, cond. Peskó, Lisbon, 9 June 1994Koïranoï 1994; NDR SO, cond. Peskó, Hamburg, 1 March 1996Ioolkos, 1995; SWF SO, cond. K. Ryan, Donaueschingen, 20 Oct 1996Voile, str, 1995; Munich Chamber Orchestra, cond. C. Poppen, Munich, 16 Nov 1995Sea-Change, 1997; BBC SO, cond. A. Davis, London, 23 July 1997O-Mega, perc solo, chbr orch, 1997; E. Glennie, London Sinfonietta, cond. M. Stenz, Huddersfield, 30 Nov 1997
Choral:Zyia (folk), S, male vv (10 minimum), fl, pf, 1952; cond. R. Safir, Evreux, 5 April 1994Anastenaria: procession aux eaux claires, SATB (30vv), male choir (15vv), orch (62 insts), 1953, sketchPolla ta dhina (Sophocles: Antigone), children’s vv, wind, perc, 1962; cond. Scherchen, Stuttgart, 25 Oct 1962Hiketides: les suppliates d’Eschyle, 50 female vv, 10 insts/orch, 1964; cond. Simonović, Paris, 1968Oresteïa (incid music/concert work, Aeschylus), chorus, 12 insts, 1965–6; cond. Simonović, Ypsilanti, MI, 14 June 1966Medea (incid music, Seneca), male vv, orch, 1967; cond. Masson, Paris, 29 March 1967Nuits, 3 S, 3 A, 3 T, 3 B, 1967–8; cond. M. Couraud, Royan, 7 April 1968Cendrées, chorus, orch, 1973–4; cond. Tabachnik, Lisbon, 20 June 1974A Colone (Sophocles), male/female vv (20 minimum), 5 hn, 3 trbn, 6 vc, 4 db, 1977; Metz, 19 Nov 1977A Hélène, Mez, female vv, 2 cl, 1977; Epidavros, July 1977Anemoessa (phonemic text), SATB (42 minimum), orch, 1979; cond. R. Dufallo, Amsterdam, 21 June 1979Nekuïa (phonemes and text from J.-P. Richter: Siebenkäs and Xenakis: Ecoute), SATB (54 minimum), orch, 1981; cond. Tabachnik, Cologne, 26 March 1982Pour la Paix (Xenakis), SATB, 2 female spkrs, 2 male spkrs, tape (UPIC), 1981, version for SATB (32 minimum); cond. M. Tranchant, Paris, 23 April 1982Serment-Orkos (Hippocrates), SATB (32 minimum), 1981; Greek Radio Choir, Athens, 1981Chant des Soleils (Xenakis, after P. du Mans), SATB, children’s choir, 18 brass 6 (hn, 6 tpt, 6 trbn) or multiple, perc, 1983; Nord-Pas-de-Calais [simultaneous performance in several towns of the region], 21 June 1983Idmen A/Idmen B (phonemes from Hesiod: Theogony), SATB (64 minimum), 4/6 perc, 1985; Antifona de Cluj, Les Percussions de Strasbourg, Strasbourg, 24 July 1985Knephas (phonemes by Xenakis), SATB (32 minimum), 1990; cond. J. Wood, London, 24 June 1990Pu wijnuej we fyp (A. Rimbaud), children’s choir, 1992; cond. D. Dupays, Paris, 5 Dec 1992Vakchai Evripidou (Les Bacchantes d' Euripide), Bar, female vv (also playing maracas), pic, ob, dbn, hn, tpt, trbn, 3 perc, 1993; J. Dixon, cond. N. Kok, London, 1 Sept 1993Sea-Nymphs (phonemes from W. Shakespeare: The Tempest), SATB (24 minimum), 1994; cond. S. Joly, London, 16 Sept 1994
Other vocal:Tripli zyia, 1v, pf, 1952, unpubdTrois poèmes (F. Villon: Aiés pitié de moy, V. Mayakovsky: Ce soir je donne mon concert d’adieux, Ritsos: Earini Symphonia [Spring Symphony]), 1v, pf, 1952, unpubdLa colombe de la paix, A, 4vv (SATB), 1953, unpubdStamatis Katotakis (table song), 1v, male vv, 1953, unpubdN’shima, 2 Mez/A, 2 hn, 2 trbn, vc, 1975; cond. J.-P. Izquierdo, Jerusalem, Feb 1976Pour Maurice, Bar, pf, 1982; S. Sakkas, C. Helffer, Brussels, 18 Oct 1982Kassandra (Aeschylus), Bar + 20str psalterion, perc, 1987; Sakkas, Gualda, Gibellina, 21 Aug 1987 [second part of Oresteïa: see CHORAL]La déesse Athéna (Aeschylus), Bar, pic, ob, E♭ cl, db cl, dbn, hn, pic tpt, trbn, tuba, perc, vc, 1992; Sakkas, cond. Tabachnik, Athens, 3 May 1992 [scene from Oresteïa: see CHORAL]
Chamber:Dipli Zyia, vn, vc, 1951, unpubdST/4, str qt, 1956–62; Bernède Quartet, Paris, 1962ST/10, cl, b cl, 2 hn, hp, perc, str qt, 1956–62 cond. Simonović, Paris, May 1962Morsima-Amorsima, pf, vn, vc, db, 1956–62; cond. Foss, Athens, 16 Dec 1962Analogique A, 9 str, 1958 [must be performed with tape work Analogique B]; cond. Scherchen, Gravesano, summer 1959Amorsima-Morsima, cl, b cl, 2 hn, hp, perc, str qt; cond. Foss, Athens, 1962Atrées, fl, cl, b cl, hn, tpt, trbn, 2 perc, vn, vc, 1962; cond. Simonović, Paris, 1962Eonta, 2 tpt, 3 trbn, pf, 1963–4; cond. P. Boulez, Paris, 16 Dec 1964Anaktoria, cl, bn, hn, str qt, db, 1969; Octuor de Paris, Avignon, 3 July 1969Persephassa, 6 perc, 1969; Les Percussions de Strasbourg, Persepolis, 9 Sept 1969Aroura, 12 str, 1971; cond. Tabachnik, Lucerne, 24 Aug 1971Charisma, cl, vc, 1971; Royan, 6 April 1971Linaia-Agon, hn, trbn, tuba, 1972; cond. Tabachnik, London, 26 April 1972Phlegra, 11 insts, 1975; cond. Tabachnik, London, 28 Jan 1976Epeï, eng hn, cl, tpt, 2 trbn, db, 1976; cond. S. Garant, Montréal, 9 Dec 1976Retours-Windungen, 12 vc, 1976; Berlin PO, Bonn, 20 Feb 1976Dmaathen, ob, perc, 1976; N. Post, J. Williams, New York, May 1977Akanthos, 9 insts, 1977; Ensemble Studio 111, Strasburg, 17 June 1977Ikhoor, str trio, 1978; Trio à Cordes Français, Paris, 2 April 1978Dikhthas, vn, pf, 1979; S. Accardo, B. Canino, Bonn, 4 June 1980Palimpsest, eng hn, b cl, bn, hn, perc, pf, str qnt, 1979; cond. S. Gorli, Aquila, 3 March 1979Pléïades, 6 perc, 1979; Les Percussions de Strasbourg, Strasbourg, 17 May 1979Komboï, amp hpd, perc, 1981; Chojnacka, Gualda, Metz, 22 Nov 1981Khal Perr, brass qnt, 2 perc, 1983; Quintette Arban, Alsace Percussions, Beaune, 15 July 1983Tetras, str qt, 1983; Arditti String Quartet, Lisbon, 8 June 1983Thalleïn, pic, ob, cl, bn, hn, pic tpt, trbn, perc, pf, str qnt, 1984; cond. E. Howarth, London, 14 Feb 1984Nyûyô [Setting Sun], shakuhachi, sangen, 2 koto; 1985; Angers, Ensemble Yonin-No Kai (Tokyo), 30 June 1985Akea, pf, str qt, 1986; Helffer, Arditti String Quartet, Paris, 15 Dec 1986A l’Ile de Gorée, amp hpd, pic, ob, cl, bn, hn, tpt, str qnt, 1986; cond. Kerstens, Amsterdam, 4 July 1986Jalons, pic, ob, b cl, db cl, dbn, hn, tpt, trbn, tuba, hp, str qnt, 1986; cond. Boulez, Paris, 26 Jan 1987XAS, sax qt, 1987; Raschèr Quartet, Lille, 17 Nov 1987Waarg, pic, ob, cl, bn, hn, tpt, trbn, tuba, str qnt, 1988; cond. Howarth, London, 6 May 1988Echange, solo b cl, fl, ob, cl, bn, hn, tpt, trbn, tuba, str qnt, 1989; H. Sparnaay, cond. Porcelijn, Amsterdam, 26 April 1989Epcycle, solo vc, fl, ob, cl, hn, tpt, trbn, tuba, 2 vn, va, db, 1989; R. de Saram, Spectrum Ensemble, cond. G. Protheroe, London, 18 May 1989Okho, 3 djembés, tall African drum, 1989; Trio Le Cercle, Paris, 20 Oct 1989Ophaa, hpd, perc, 1989; Chojnacka, Gualda, Warsaw, 17 Sep 1989Tetora, str qt, 1990; Arditti String Quartet, Witten, 27 Apr 1991Paille in the wind, vc, pf, 1992; J. Scalfi, Woodward, Milan, 14 Dec 1992Plektó, fl, cl, perc, pf, vn, vc, 1993; cond. R. Platz, Witten, 24 April 1994Ergma, str qt, 1994; Mondrian String Quartet, The Hague, 17 Dec 1994Mnamas Xapin Witoldowi Lutoslavskiemu [In Memory of Witold Lutosławski], 2 hn, 2 tpt, 1994; cond. W. Michniewki, Warsaw, 21 Sept 1994Kaï, fl, cl, bn, tpt, trbn, vn, va, vc, db, 1995; cond. D. Coleman, Oldenburg, 12 Nov 1995Kuïlenn, fl, 2 ob, 2 cl, 2 bn, 2 hn, 1995; Netherlands Wind Ensemble, Amsterdam, 10 June 1996Hunem-Iduhey, vn, vc, 1996; E. Michell, O. Akahoshi, New York, 9 Aug 1996Ittidra, str sextet, 1996; Arditti String Quartet, T. Kakuska (va), V. Erben (vc), Frankfurt, 4 Oct 1996Roscobeck, vc, db, 1996; R. de Saram, S. Scordanibbio, Cologne, 6 Dec 1996Zythos, trbn, 6 perc, 1996; Lindberg, Kroumata Ensemble, Birmingham, 10 April 1997
Solo instrumental:Seven piano pieces without title, Menuet, Air populaire, Allegro molto, Mélodie, Andante, pf, 1949–50, unpubdSuite, pf, 1950–51, unpubdThème et conséquences, pf, 1951, unpubdHerma, pf, 1960–61Nomos alpha, vc, 1965–6; S. Palm, Bremen, 5 May 1966Mikka, vn, 1971; I. Gitlis, Paris, 27 Oct 1972Evryali, pf, 1973; C. Helffer, Paris, 1974Gmeeoorh, org, 1974; C. Holloway, U. of Hartford, CT, 1974Psappha, perc, 1975; S. Gualda London, 2 May 1976Theraps, db, 1975–6; F. Grillo, 26 March 1976Khoaï, hpd, 1976; E. Chojnacka, Cologne, 5 May 1976Mikka ‘S’, vn, 1976; R. Pasquier, Orléans, 11 March 1976Kottos, vc, 1977; M. Rostropovich, La Rochelle, 28 June 1977Embellie, va, 1981; G. Renon-McLaughlin, Paris, 1981Mists, pf, 1981; Woodward, Edinburgh, 1981Naama, amp hpd, 1984; Chojnacka, Luxembourg, 20 May 1984Keren, trbn, 1986; B. Sluchin, Strasbourg, 19 Sept 1986A r. (Hommage à Ravel), pf, 1987; H. Austbö, Montpellier, 2 Aug 1987Rebonds, perc, 1988; Gualda, Rome, 1 July 1988
Tapesome works exist in one or more revised realizations
Diamorphoses, 2-track, 1957–8; Brussels, 5 Oct 1958Concret PH, 2-track, 1958; Brussels, Philips Pavilion, 1958Analogique B, 2-track, 1958–9 [must be performed with chbr work Analogique A]; cond. Scherchen, Gravesano, summer 1959Orient-Occident, 2-track, 1960; Cannes, May 1960The Thessaloniki World Fair (film score), 1-track, 1961Bohor, 4-track, 1962; Paris, 15 Dec 1962Hibiki Hana Ma, 12-track, 1969–70; Osaka, Expo 70, 1970Persépolis, 8-track, 1971; Persepolis, 26 Aug 1971Polytope de Cluny, 8-track, lighting, 1972; Paris, 17 Oct 1972Polytope II, tape, lighting, 1974; Paris, 1974La legénde d'Eer (Diatope), 4- or 8-track, 1977; Paris, 11 Feb 1978Mycenae alpha, 2-track, UPIC, 1978; Mycenae, 2 Aug 1978Taurhiphanie, 2-track, UPIC, 1987; Arles, 13 July 1988Voyage absolu des Unari vers Andromède, 2-track, UPIC; Osaka, 1 April 1989GENDY3, 2-track, Dynamic Stochastic Synthesis, 1991; Metz, 17 Nov 1991S 709, 2-track Dynamic Stochastic Synthesis, 1994; Paris, 2 Dec 1994
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Monday, 12 October 2020 01:51 (one week ago) link
That's... a lot of music.
― The nexus of the crisis and the origin of storms (Sund4r), Monday, 12 October 2020 01:52 (one week ago) link
I'm totally up for doing it but how do you think we should we tackle it? Should we limit ourselves to orchestral music maybe?
― I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Monday, 12 October 2020 02:00 (one week ago) link
Heh, no kidding.I honestly think we should do it wholesale, even if it takes a full year. I’ve been getting into a more patient listening groove lately...
― pomenitul, Monday, 12 October 2020 02:05 (one week ago) link
Maybe pick about 45m-1h of music from all genres a week, going chronologically?
― I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Monday, 12 October 2020 02:30 (one week ago) link
Sounds like a plan.
― pomenitul, Monday, 12 October 2020 02:39 (one week ago) link
works for me
― budo jeru, Monday, 12 October 2020 11:22 (one week ago) link
"Drawn Into the Flight Path of the Sounds": Xenakis Listening Thread
― I guess I'd be lonesome (Sund4r), Tuesday, 13 October 2020 02:02 (one week ago) link