Imperial Aerosol POLL: The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway by Genesis

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed

Poll Closing Date: Thursday, 1 August 2019 00:00 (in 1 week)

It looks like this monumental thing hasn't been polled before. So let's do it...

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
Fly on a Windshield
Broadway Melody of 1974
Cuckoo Cocoon
In the Cage
The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging
Back in N.Y.C.
Hairless Heart
Counting Out Time
The Carpet Crawlers
The Chamber of 32 Doors
Lilywhite Lilith
The Waiting Room
Anyway
Here Comes the Supernatural Anaesthetist
The Lamia
Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats
The Colony of Slippermen
Ravine
The Light Dies Down on Broadway
Riding the Scree
In the Rapids
it.


J. Sam, Monday, 8 July 2019 08:45 (two weeks ago) link

This feels more and more like the greatest prog album of all time to me. I could vote for absolutely anything on disc 1 and about half of disc 2. Leaning toward Chamber of 32 Doors today, but I'll give it time

J. Sam, Monday, 8 July 2019 08:58 (two weeks ago) link

This is between In the Cage and Carpet Crawlers, will have to listen again and see which way to go.

van dyke parks generator (anagram), Monday, 8 July 2019 09:13 (two weeks ago) link

Carpet crawlers

calstars, Monday, 8 July 2019 10:05 (two weeks ago) link

Wanted to give Counting Out Time a sympathy vote, but it had to be In The Cage

PaulTMA, Monday, 8 July 2019 10:19 (two weeks ago) link

Love this so much. In the Cage vs Back in NYC vs Cuckoo Cocoon, I think, but I will listen before voting.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 8 July 2019 11:15 (two weeks ago) link

NYC vs the opening 3 (impossible to separate Fly and Broadway Melody). Best side 1 ever, followed by the most disappointing third act of any prog album. Despite this, one of my favorite albums.

Paul Ponzi, Monday, 8 July 2019 11:41 (two weeks ago) link

If the vote was for best costume, this would be "Colony of Slippermen" in a landslide (scree-slide?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E992R9iBbF8

enochroot, Monday, 8 July 2019 11:43 (two weeks ago) link

voted Back in NYC but it could have been Carpet Crawlers or the title track easily

akm, Monday, 8 July 2019 13:06 (two weeks ago) link

after the big quartet trespass, nursery cryme, foxtrot and selling england by the pound this was such a big disappointment for me in the late 70s. i never understood the appeal of it. it was a little similar with white light/white heat when i got into velvet underground. i found those albums annoyingly repetitive. i have to admit i haven't listened to TLLDOB for close to 40 years though.

je est un autre, l'enfer c'est les autres (alex in mainhattan), Monday, 8 July 2019 13:14 (two weeks ago) link

Ugh, impossible to choose. I've internalized every note on this album.

jmm, Monday, 8 July 2019 13:31 (two weeks ago) link

This was the first Genesis album I heard. It took me a while to get into it because it sounded too much like '80s Genesis, which I hated, to me. I know that's not the usual reaction people have but even though the songs are different they are pretty much the same band, particularly evident on a song like "The Carpet Crawlers". Plus, even in their prog days the biggest strength Genesis had was their melodic sense, their ability to write pop songs. So I like this because there aren't any ten minute epics on it. There's "In The Cage", which is great. I don't have the words for it but there's a sense in which the way the melodies are used gives a sense of zooming in and out of the situation. And then there's "The Colony of Slippermen", which is not great, but which has a fantastic castration sound effect which I always assume was one of Eno's contributions.

But I also like "The Waiting Room", which is just them doing some oppressive Crimson-style jamming. There's some great rehearsal tapes from Headley Grange where they just go all out for twenty minutes on it, and even though Genesis don't have a reputation as improvisers, in fact I can't think of a single instance other than this song of them improvising, it's fantastic. Live it's good too, there's a bunch of fantastic OAM recordings from the Lamb tour that have surfaced. The nine minute recording from Gronigen is pretty sweet.

The only song I don't like, really, is "Chamber of 32 Doors", which I flat out fucking hate. It's the lyrics. I know how "anti-cosmopolitanism" plays out in practice and I have no patience with songs extolling the virtues of simple country folk.

The rest of the lyrics, though, I love. No, they don't tell a coherent story, but Gabriel's stuff tends to have this deep psychological resonance. I've written about this elsewhere, but it's a very relatable album from a genderqueer perspective.

Anyway, not voting right now, will have to think on it.

Un Poco Loco Moco (rushomancy), Monday, 8 July 2019 13:46 (two weeks ago) link

Forgot about Back In NYC, probably due to taking a few years to really appreciate it. I love the fact it is primarily written by the same man who wrote The Living Years

PaulTMA, Monday, 8 July 2019 14:20 (two weeks ago) link

Going to have to stick up for the second disc too, I honestly love how the first is kind of perfect and the second seemingly meanders around with full on creepiness and menace, leading nowhere you could possibly expect it to (i.e. a Supper's Ready-esque climax)

PaulTMA, Monday, 8 July 2019 14:24 (two weeks ago) link

anything on disc 1 and about half of disc 2

the most disappointing third act of any prog album

Not agreeing with this at all - I adore side 2 even more so than side 1. It works especially well as an entire run, I do find it hard to pick out single tracks. Obvious contenders would be the Lamia or Colony of Slippermen.
But I think I'll vote for Anyway. It's a huge personal favourite and I feel it's a bit of a hidden gem which will probably not get so many other votes, if any at all.

Valentijn, Monday, 8 July 2019 14:26 (two weeks ago) link

just giving this a relisten, struck by how much the title song sounds like something off who's next

Br. Des Shadows (NickB), Monday, 8 July 2019 14:46 (two weeks ago) link

Anyway is definitely under-appreciated, I think it's an early song they resurrected. Or was that Counting Out Time? Maybe both. I think there's also a few bits from this early 20-minute epic they wrote and never recorded, but spent the next decade cannibalising for various tracks.

Went for Fly On The Windshield in the end, but I think of sides 1-3 kind of as one continuous track so difficult to pick anything out of it. Side 4 largely a waste of time imo, esp. Banks's lyrics he had to come up with cos Gabriel ran out of steam.

Zeuhl Idol (Matt #2), Monday, 8 July 2019 14:57 (two weeks ago) link

It took me a while to warm up to the live-with-overdubs concert on the Archive box, but as the closest they came to a proper reunion (WOMAD aside, which left out Steve), it's a fun listen. Phil's playing is nervy and Gabriel handles the old songs pretty well.

For me, it's In the Cage over the opener. And I'll take Afterglow over Carpet Crawlers.

dinnerboat, Monday, 8 July 2019 14:57 (two weeks ago) link

"Back in N.Y.C."! I have not played this record (the only Genesis album I own) since high school, 40+ years ago.

clemenza, Monday, 8 July 2019 15:00 (two weeks ago) link

Not agreeing with this at all - I adore side 2 even more so than side 1. It works especially well as an entire run, I do find it hard to pick out single tracks. Obvious contenders would be the Lamia or Colony of Slippermen.
But I think I'll vote for Anyway. It's a huge personal favourite and I feel it's a bit of a hidden gem which will probably not get so many other votes, if any at all.

― Valentijn, Monday, July 8, 2019 10:26 AM (forty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

It's after "The Lamia" that the album becomes a slog for me (and I love "Anyway," too). "Slippermen" is OK I guess but the rest of the album, jeez, talk about going out with a whimper. And the narrative becomes especially disjointed toward the end. Oh, and I loathe "the Waiting Room." "Don't have a reputation as improvisers," indeed.

Paul Ponzi, Monday, 8 July 2019 15:21 (two weeks ago) link

Voted Fly

Freeeeeeewaaaaaaaaaaaay.......boing!

MaresNest, Monday, 8 July 2019 17:28 (two weeks ago) link

I was waiting to see how you'd vote

Zeuhl Idol (Matt #2), Monday, 8 July 2019 17:42 (two weeks ago) link

That first half of this record is just so insanely good. Second half is kind of amorphous and not nearly as effective. I always thought "it." sounded like the intro music to some nightly news program of the era.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 July 2019 17:50 (two weeks ago) link

"Carpet Crawlers" is one of those tunes that physically skeeves me out, I love it. that little guitar tone during the "gotta get in to get out" bit feels like it hits me in the funnybone. also, that descending keyboard line is incredible...sounds like a sequencer almost

but I think I'd go with "In the Cage", the final third is just brilliant. that sustained bass drop just kills me.

I agree that this is perhaps one of the greatest prog albums ever made, even though side 4 kinda bites it (outside of "it"...vrooooooooom!!"). Always thought if you wanted to show today's modern teenager what prog was, warts & all, this would be the album you pick.

frogbs, Monday, 8 July 2019 17:50 (two weeks ago) link

I always thought "it." sounded like the intro music to some nightly news program of the era.

Ha ha! That's accurate.

dinnerboat, Monday, 8 July 2019 17:52 (two weeks ago) link

Listening now, and forgot how much I love "In The Cage". But because I started with Genesis in the 80's and worked backwards through their discography, it still sounds wrong to my ear to have Gabriel singing this tune (as opposed to Phil Collins on the "3 sides live" version).
Agree with whoever said that this album isn't as great as the 3 or 4 that came before it.

enochroot, Monday, 8 July 2019 18:31 (two weeks ago) link

I used to watch this "Abacab" era Genesis live video, where "In the Cage" was if not played in its entirety then def. played as part of a medley. Along with songs like (or snippets of) "Afterglow," etc.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 8 July 2019 18:35 (two weeks ago) link

"after the big quartet trespass, nursery cryme, foxtrot and selling england by the pound this was such a big disappointment for me in the late 70s. i never understood the appeal of it."

it's a completely different sounding album than the preceding ones. It's very modern in both composition and the sound of the instruments. There's almost nothing pastoral on here. Parts of it sound more like Nadir's Big Chance than any previous Genesis albums. Trick of the Tail was very much a regression from this sound (though I love it too). I don't think they really started treading this ground again until Duke.

akm, Monday, 8 July 2019 18:44 (two weeks ago) link

Pre-Lamb was fantasy; Lamb was sci-fi.

dinnerboat, Monday, 8 July 2019 19:28 (two weeks ago) link

(WOMAD aside, which left out Steve)

? dinnerboat, Monday, July 8, 2019 7:57 AM

He showed up at the end! (To do The Knife, of all things, which he isn't on the studio recording of...)

Anyway is definitely under-appreciated, I think it's an early song they resurrected. Or was that Counting Out Time? Maybe both. I think there's also a few bits from this early 20-minute epic they wrote and never recorded, but spent the next decade cannibalising for various tracks.

Side 4 largely a waste of time imo, esp. Banks's lyrics he had to come up with cos Gabriel ran out of steam.

? Zeuhl Idol (Matt #2)

It's "Anyway", from the rejected soundtrack to some art-porn film from around the time of _Trespass_. Peter's lyrics are a significant improvement over the original, which is along the lines of "I am the mad mad scientist". And yeah, "Lilywhite Lilith", as well as bits of "The Colony of Slippermen", cops from a piece called "The Light" they used to play in concert in the pre-Nursery Cryme era (with Phil on vocals!)

I have sort of a fondness for "The Light Dies Down On Broadway", if only because the spectacle of Tony Banks trying to do a recap of the previous hour and change, as if any of it made the slightest bit of goddamn sense whatsoever, at a point where there's only three more goddamn songs left on the album anyway, is like getting Chris Chibnall to do a recap of one of Moffat's seasons of Who.

Very rare to find a double concept album that doesn't fall to bits in the back half. You get side 3, where they randomly decided to stick all the guitar solos - aside from that Hackett is mostly doubling Banks, to the point where you can't even tell he showed up for the record, particularly when he's doing that tapping stuff.

I don't know if Peter's lyrics really let it down. Yeah, there's clunkers, but the entirety of "Broadway Melody of 1974" is just Gabriel doing a list song like he's Roger Waters, which doesn't keep it from being a stone fucking classic (funnily enough one of the few interviews with Waters from the mid '70s he spends most of the time slagging off Genesis in some obscure beef). I guess they don't mesh with the music, but I just don't feel like "The Lamia" or "The Colony of Slippermen" are nearly as strong musically as "In the Cage" or "Back in NYC" - a gem like "Anyway", which isn't enough to anchor a side, is just out there unsupported. Then you get weird pseudo-ambient Eno wannabes like "Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats" (pretty sure that's not actually Eno), which is lovely and I might actually vote for it just to be contrarian but doesn't mesh or flow with anything else anywhere, Banks doing a mega-squiggly synth solo on "Riding the Scree"... I mean it's still better than pretty much anything on "Tales" (and Genesis knew it - read the interviews of the time and they're going out of their way make it clear that _their_ obscure double concept album is nothing like Yes's recent disaster).

Un Poco Loco Moco (rushomancy), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 12:33 (one week ago) link

Listening now, and forgot how much I love "In The Cage". But because I started with Genesis in the 80's and worked backwards through their discography, it still sounds wrong to my ear to have Gabriel singing this tune (as opposed to Phil Collins on the "3 sides live" version)

I feel the same way about Carpet Crawlers, since I got to know and love the Phil-sung version on Seconds Out long before I heard the studio version with Gabriel. I still think the song suits Phil's voice better. In The Cage, though, suits Gabriel's vocals far better I think.

van dyke parks generator (anagram), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 12:37 (one week ago) link

Lots of contenders. Going for "The Lamia" in the long run. Tony is the most underrated member of Genesis.

The GeirBot (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 13:00 (one week ago) link

"
It's "Anyway", from the rejected soundtrack to some art-porn film from around the time of _Trespass_"

this is actually from the "Jackson Tapes" which was released a few years ago with the albums on a cd of outtakes in a box set.

"A BBC television producer heard about Genesis in late 1969 when they were based in the cottage owned by Richard Macphail's parents. He came down to see them and thought they might be the sort of group he was looking for who could write some music for a TV programme about artist Mick Jackson and his painting. The band put together 4 tracks and then went into a BBC studio on 9th January 1970 to record them. The resulting mono tape featured 15 minutes of music. One interesting thing is that Paul Samwell-Smith (of Yardbirds fame) did the production on this recording.

A copy of the master tape together with some rapidly hand-written notes describing the ideas for the proposed programme were put together to give to a commissioning editor who would approve it. It's this copy tape (and the notes) that came to light at the end of 2001 and which were initially offered for sale via auction. No-one knows where the actual master tape of the session is or indeed if it still exists.

The four tracks recorded during the session were referred to in the notes as relating to themes of Provocation, Frustration, Manipulation and Resignation although these are not the titles of the tracks that the band gave them. These tracks contain some very interesting hints of things to come:

- Provocation includes a theme from Fountain of Salmacis plus much of what ended up in Looking For Someone (Ant remembers that the end of Looking For Someone as we know it from the version on Trespass developed here).

- Frustration is an early version of Anyway from The Lamb but with totally different lyrics.

- Manipulation is a version of F Sharp that we now know from Ant's Archive Collection (and is an early version of what became ‘Musical Box’) although this is more fully arranged with Tony Banks adding an organ part to Ant & Mike's 12-strings.

- Resignation includes parts of a track from that period called Peace which Genesis never used anywhere else."

(copied from elsewhere on the internet)

akm, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 13:02 (one week ago) link

Eno's only involvement is treating the vocals on "Grand Parade", right? he might as well not even be credited.

frogbs, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 13:17 (one week ago) link

Pretty much there, maybe Counting Out Time or Cuckoo Cocoon, places with treated vox.

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 13:32 (one week ago) link

Eno apparently provided a lot of "Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats".

The GeirBot (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 13:42 (one week ago) link

The Lamb remains one of my top 3 greatest albums of all time. Even the tracks at the end of disc 2, which sound like an amalgamation of each other, have a chill vibe that complements the rest of the album.

For me there are quite a few tracks that top 'In The Cage' so I will be sad if it wins the poll. 'In The Cage' is the only track on this double album where I can picture people bobbing their heads to a high tempo; coincidentally, upbeat folk might unite their vote on that one.

ilm jive mind (FlopsyDuck), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 14:01 (one week ago) link

Also it might suck up votes from 80's Genesis lovers.

ilm jive mind (FlopsyDuck), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 14:09 (one week ago) link

I need to keep telling myself that I shouldn't care about other people's opinions on this album.

ilm jive mind (FlopsyDuck), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 14:14 (one week ago) link

And yeah, "Lilywhite Lilith", as well as bits of "The Colony of Slippermen", cops from a piece called "The Light" they used to play in concert in the pre-Nursery Cryme era (with Phil on vocals!)

Any idea where I could learn more about this? (As you can imagine the title of “The Light” on its own kind of trips up google w/r/t things Genesis have put out containing that phrase)

You can’t see it but I had an epiphany (Champiness), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 14:29 (one week ago) link

There's "In The Cage", which is great. I don't have the words for it but there's a sense in which the way the melodies are used gives a sense of zooming in and out of the situation.

Yeah, the moment(s) in "In the Cage" where it abruptly shifts from minor to major ("If I keep self control...") have this exhilarating change-of-perspective effect.

Pre-Lamb was fantasy; Lamb was sci-fi.

― dinnerboat, Monday, July 8, 2019 3:28 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

This pretty much sums it up musically and lyrically. On the Lamb, all the knights-and-ladies-and-dragons-and-lawnmowers imagery is replaced with chromed-out urban surrealism and contemporary pop culture references.

J. Sam, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:03 (one week ago) link

Also some heavy grooves!

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:04 (one week ago) link

I've written about this elsewhere, but it's a very relatable album from a genderqueer perspective.

Would love to read this if you have a link.

The fact that this album deals with sexuality at all sets it apart from most prog rock, and the way it progresses from the juvenile humor of "Counting Out Time" to the grotesque sexual body horror of "The Lamia" and "Colony of Slippermen" is fascinating.

J. Sam, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 15:17 (one week ago) link

One of my favourite moments on the album is halfway through "In the Cage" with fuzz bass and toms under the woozy harmonies on "and he looks at me without a sound," which is clearly cribbing from Tomorrow Never Knows.

dinnerboat, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 16:29 (one week ago) link

Dug out the CD today to re-read Gabriel's story in the liner notes, now my head kinda hurts.

MaresNest, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 16:34 (one week ago) link

i voted for "waiting room" bc it's the most amazing shit ever when you're really stoned but now i'm thinking i should've gone for "slippermen"

american bradass (BradNelson), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 16:35 (one week ago) link

i cannot believe people itt do not like "slippermen"

american bradass (BradNelson), Tuesday, 9 July 2019 16:35 (one week ago) link

keep your fingers out of my eye

J. Sam, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 16:39 (one week ago) link

Man I love Slippermen. "Me? ... Like you? ... like that??"

J. Sam, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 16:41 (one week ago) link

"Don't delay, dock the dick!"

dinnerboat, Tuesday, 9 July 2019 16:42 (one week ago) link

Anyway is also v good, i think i voted for side 3 when we polled the sides on this, the best bit of The Cage is "sunshine in my stomach" tbh

jou're much too jung, girl (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 12:50 (one week ago) link

^Do you have a link to that poll? All I could find was the Lamb vs. The Wall vs. Tommy thread

J. Sam, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 15:26 (one week ago) link

I looked, maybe it wasn't a poll, pretty sure there was a discussion somewhere

jou're much too jung, girl (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 15:46 (one week ago) link

"Fly On the Windshield" is so heavy/awesome. When I listened to this album again yesterday, I really got into "Lilywhite Lilith," too. And "Back in NYC," another heavy song. I love that Jeff Buckley covered that one.

Oh, and speaking of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlX4moDYEmA

When I saw Musical Box do this, at the time they even had a left-handed balding drummer!

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 16:17 (one week ago) link

Holy shit, I think I knew this, but the other/former/future drummer, Martin Levac, is actually a Phil Collins impersonator!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O_CMLJRRgw

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 16:22 (one week ago) link

xp I was very impressed by this detail when I saw them. Esp. when he came out front to sing More Fool Me

PaulTMA, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 16:23 (one week ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRBhbG6jfY8

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 16:31 (one week ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejs1G2yLBM8

MaresNest, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:29 (one week ago) link

Oh yeah those interviews are great. It's kind of hilarious how much Tony Banks hates on this album, though I believe he refers to "In the Cage" as "a strong piece" or something like that.

J. Sam, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:37 (one week ago) link

Banks seems like the biggest douchebag ever

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:39 (one week ago) link

"It was all very Spinal Tap. Cutting edge but Spinal Tap."

jmm, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:47 (one week ago) link

I don't wonder if the accumulated hassle of being drawn out on details about every single one of their albums at the time possibly drove them all a bit nuts, especially given their theoretical rep as a bunch of passive aggressive posh boys (Collins excluded), Banks looks quite angry.

MaresNest, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:48 (one week ago) link

Not theoretical

badg, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:50 (one week ago) link

I think Tony Banks gets a bad rap. He may come off as unlikable in interviews but he's the closest thing this band ever had to a musical visionary. And his playing, especially during this era, is terrific.

Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:51 (one week ago) link

true

I've always disliked Banks as a person, he always comes across as this villainous figure who didn't really get what made the band great, though when I go back and listen to the records he always comes across as the guy most responsible for their greatness

frogbs, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 20:54 (one week ago) link

Eh, I'm not down with the idea of Banks as alpha visionary. Hackett was every bit the musical pioneer that Banks was, probably more so, and Peter Gabriel, obv., was not lacking in vision - in fact, Genesis was holding him back! Now Rutherford, that dude has no vision. And Phil back then was the most musically talented of them all, I'd say, but his vision was to leave the musicianship behind (eventually) and focus on the emotion/yelling.

Banks I think is the worst kind of prog prig, as he clearly believes that his classical training makes him better than everyone else, and his lack of hits outside of Genesis was because he was too good for everyone else, they just didn't get it.

fwiw individual writing credits do not seem to get broken down until after Gabriel leaves, and revert back to a collective band credit after a few albums. Is there a good guide out there to who largely contributed what?

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 21:41 (one week ago) link

i wasn't knocking his contributions to the band

but honestly i've never seen an interview with him where he didn't come off as a smug dick

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:01 (one week ago) link

Also, Hackett and Collins are both master level at their instruments, Banks isn't close to the level they are

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:01 (one week ago) link

Just want to repost this exchange from an interview DeRogatis did with Collins/Banks:

Did they ever wish they could lock themselves in their studio, get really stoned and cut loose to make another album as bizarrely brilliant as "The Lamb," I asked? Maybe under another name, so there were none of the expectations that came with being "pop hitmakers Genesis"?

"I suppose if one was doing that, one would probably try to be more off the wall," Banks said, transformed for a moment into the teenage musician jamming in that cottage. "I think the sheer reason for doing it would surely be to try to do a few things that might be disastrous."

"At the same time," Collins petulantly added, "it might be nice to do something like we've just done and call it a different name and see how it's received. By saying that, you're playing into -- what's your name? -- Jim's hands, because you're admitting that, because we're going in and calling it a different band, we actually have confines within Genesis that we want to stick to."

"Well, that's a fair enough comment to make," Banks said, scowling at his partner. "Because there's probably some truth in it."

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:02 (one week ago) link

don't know if I really hear Hackett as a pioneer - he's got a style, but I more often than not wonder where he is on some of these recordings. then again maybe burying the guitar was pretty innovative back then

frogbs, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:03 (one week ago) link

Being a tapping pioneer alone puts Hackett heads and, well, toes above most guitarists.

I was impressed by an old clip showing Tony Banks playing classic guitar in Genesis, I'll try to track that down.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:04 (one week ago) link

This is pretty educational:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er2GHuzlUAY

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:08 (one week ago) link

Howe helped revitalize guitar music in the 80s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARERFbiqCfk

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:15 (one week ago) link

LOL. Now that's some music Banks could probably get behind.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:17 (one week ago) link

On the "great real names" tip, the GTR singer is Max Bacon.

nickn, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:45 (one week ago) link

The band should have called themselves Bacon. Everyone likes bacon.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:46 (one week ago) link

I found this on a Prog forum a while back. Don't know how it was put together but it seems reasonably convincing enough:

TRESPASS

Looking For Someone (Banks-Gabriel-Phillips-Rutherford)
White Mountain (Phillips-Rutherford)
Visions of Angels (Phillips)
Stagnation (Phillips-Banks-Rutherford-Gabriel)
Dusk (Phillips-Rutherford)
The Knife (Gabriel-Banks-Rutherford-Phillips)

NURSERY CRYME

The Musical Box (Phillips-Rutherford-Banks-Gabriel)
For Absent Friends (Hackett-Collins)
The Return of the Giant Hogweed (Banks-Gabriel-Rutherford-Hackett-Collins)
Seven Stones (Banks) or (Banks-Hackett)
Harold the Barrel (Gabriel)
Harlequin (Rutherford-Banks)
The Fountain of Salmacis (Banks-Collins-Gabriel-Rutherford-Hackett)

FOXTROT

Watcher of the Skies (Banks-Rutherford)
Time Table (Banks)
Get 'Em Out by Friday (Banks-Gabriel-Rutherford-Collins-Hackett)
Can Utility and the Coastliners (Hackett-Banks)
Horizons (Hackett)
Suppers Ready
a. Lovers Leap (Banks-Gabriel)
b. The Guaranteed Eternal Sanctuary Man (Banks-Gabriel)
c. Ikhnaton and Itsacon and Their Band of Merry Men (Rutherford-Banks-Hackett-Gabriel)
d. How Dare I Be So Beautiful? (Gabriel-Banks)
e. Willow Farm (Gabriel)
f. Apocalypse in 9/8 (Banks-Collins-Gabriel-Hackett-Rutherford)
g. As Sure as Eggs is Eggs (Banks-Gabriel)

SELLING ENGLAND BY THE POUND

Dancing With The Moonlit Knight (Gabriel-Banks-Hackett-Rutherford-Collins)
I Know What I Like (Hackett-Banks-Gabriel)
Firth of Fifth (Banks)
More Fool Me (Rutherford-Collins)
The Battle of Epping Forest (Banks-Gabriel-Rutherford-Collins-Hackett)
After The Ordeal (Hackett-Rutherford)
Cinema Show (Banks-Rutherford-Collins)
Aisle of Plenty (Gabriel-Hackett)

THE LAMB LIES DOWN ON BROADWAY

The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (Banks-Gabriel)
Fly on a Windshield (Banks-Rutherford-Hackett-Collins-Gabriel)
Broadway Melody of 1974 (Banks-Rutherford-Gabriel)
Cuckoo Cocoon (Hackett-Gabriel)
In the Cage (Banks-Rutherford-Gabriel-Hackett-Collins)
The Grand Parade of Lifeless Packaging (Gabriel-Banks-Rutherford)
Back In NYC (Rutherford-Banks-Gabriel)
Hairless Heart (Hackett)
Counting Out Time (Gabriel)
The Carpet Crawlers (Gabriel-Banks-Rutherford)
The Chamber of 32 Doors (Gabriel-Banks)
Lilywhite Lilith (Banks-Rutherford-Collins-Gabriel)
The Waiting Room (Banks-Hackett-Rutherford-Colliins-Gabriel)
Anyway (Banks-Gabriel)
The Supernatural Anaesthitist (Hackett-Gabriel)
The Lamia (Banks-Gabriel)
Silent Sorrow in Empty Boats (Rutherford-Banks-Hackett-Collins-Gabriel)
The Colony of Slipperman (Banks-Gabriel-Rutherford-Hackett-Collins)
Ravine (Rutherford-Banks)
The Light Dies Down on Broadway (Banks-Rutherford)
Riding The Scree (Banks-Collins-Gabriel)
In The Rapids (Rutherford-Banks-Gabriel)
It (Banks-Hackett-Rutherford-Gabriel-Collins)

Not 100% on everything, and I made a couple adjustments from the PE2 list, such as Cinema Show, which I thought lyrics by Gabriel/Banks, and wikipedia says Banks/Rutherford.

PaulTMA, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 22:54 (one week ago) link

I think Tony comes across as much more likable than expected during his Prog awards speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUK3QLAvH6Q

PaulTMA, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 23:01 (one week ago) link

I love how all the Genesis guys still appear to be friends. I mean, in the career-spanning doc, Banks seems to be an especially big asshole to Peter! But here they are cool.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 23:05 (one week ago) link

So many times during the...Showtime?...HBO?...Genesis documentary from a couple years ago, Tony said, "I quite liked what I'd written on [song], but then Peter Gabriel added his vocals and melody line, and I don't like [somg] anymore." It felt like a running joke by the fourth or fifth time.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 10 July 2019 23:15 (one week ago) link

Well, Peter's vocal melodies came quite a bit later and I think the band just got used to hearing things without the vocals. There was one song on Lamb--I forget which one--that was supposed to be an instrumental, until Gabriel decided that for whatever reason it needed lyrics

Paul Ponzi, Wednesday, 10 July 2019 23:58 (one week ago) link

don't know if I really hear Hackett as a pioneer - he's got a style, but I more often than not wonder where he is on some of these recordings. then again maybe burying the guitar was pretty innovative back then

He seems pretty prominent on the pre-Lamb albums to me, even more pre-Selling? Some of his lead playing seems like a prototype for a lot of hard rock/metal playing that came later.

So I listened to this during a long evening of driving tonight. My vote will probably be for "Back in NYC". I also read what Wikipedia had to say about the storyline, almost all of which was news to me, although I've listened to the album many, many times over years. I think it's because the way the vocals were recorded and mixed was really original and distinctive but also largely serves to either obscure the text or at the least take my attention away from it a lot of the time. The vocal sound is very expressive but I'm not listening to the words nearly as much as with "The Musical Box" (a good earlier example of dealing with sexuality and horror btw!) or "Supper's Ready", which is curious for an album where the lyrical narrative seems to have been important to Gabriel.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:19 (one week ago) link

There's some crazy Hackett stuff on "Dancing with the Moonlit Knight." Crazy Phil fills, too.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:33 (one week ago) link

Ha, I was listening to "Dancing..." when I was typing that, actually.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:36 (one week ago) link

Come to think about, listen to Steve's solo on "The Musical Box."

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:42 (one week ago) link

Gabriel sums up what made Hackett an innovative guitarist in a BBC doc from the ‘90s. When the band was auditioning guitarists after Anthony Phillips left, he says, all the other guys they were seeing were “into notes and flash. Steve was into atmosphere.”

xp Epping Forest was meant to be an instrumental, but the lyrics/melody/singing is my favourite part.

dinnerboat, Thursday, 11 July 2019 01:49 (one week ago) link

Come to think about, listen to Steve's solo on "The Musical Box."

There's a close up of him tapping in 1972 around 4:09 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W35wtfcByIY

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 11 July 2019 02:01 (one week ago) link

Whole solo is classic ofc.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 11 July 2019 02:03 (one week ago) link

That's the one with Tony playing guitar!

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 11 July 2019 03:10 (one week ago) link

"but honestly i've never seen an interview with him where he didn't come off as a smug dick"

Anil Prasad just interviewed him (not published yet) and said it was one of the best interviewed he's ever done; I know Banks was a huge influence on his life and if you follow or know Anil he actually is pretty dismissive of prog people and uptight assholes in general. So I'm interested to see how Banks comes across.

akm, Thursday, 11 July 2019 20:45 (one week ago) link

From interviews, it kind of seems like Steve is the only guy who still unapologetically loves the prog albums. I think he says in the Selling England interview that he thought they were the best band in the world.

jmm, Thursday, 11 July 2019 20:49 (one week ago) link

Anil Prasad usually gets the best out of the people he interviews so I wouldn't be surprised if he comes off well in it

frogbs, Thursday, 11 July 2019 20:52 (one week ago) link

To me, Banks comes across more "Wynton Marsalis smug" or "John Zorn smug" than "Mike Love smug." This to me is an important distinction.

Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 11 July 2019 21:10 (one week ago) link

"Anil Prasad usually gets the best out of the people he interviews so I wouldn't be surprised if he comes off well in it"

his new interview with Jakko from Crimson is simply great.

akm, Thursday, 11 July 2019 21:33 (one week ago) link

To me, Banks comes across more "Wynton Marsalis smug" or "John Zorn smug" than "Mike Love smug." This to me is an important distinction.

― Paul Ponzi

who would be more offended at being mentioned in the same breath as the other: wynton marsalis or john zorn?

Un Poco Loco Moco (rushomancy), Thursday, 11 July 2019 23:29 (one week ago) link

Almost definitely Marsalis, I would think

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 11 July 2019 23:40 (one week ago) link

Hmm, I dunno, that is a tough one!

Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 11 July 2019 23:48 (one week ago) link

Prescriptivist traditionalist vs hyper-eclectic postmodern = no contest who would take more offence afaict but idk has Zorn ever expressed disgust about other musical movements?

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 11 July 2019 23:55 (one week ago) link

No, he's too into his own shit, prolly. Outsider gonna outside.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 12 July 2019 01:27 (one week ago) link

There's this one chordal move they do several times throughout the album that just kills me every time. Prime examples would be the end of both Broadway Melody and Cuckoo Cocoon. I don't have the firmest grasp on music theory, but it seems like they're resolving to the I chord with the iii in the bass, which aurally conveys a sense of "to be continued"

J. Sam, Monday, 15 July 2019 13:28 (one week ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.