Taking Sides: NEW ORDER VS RUSH?

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ILM Decides
https://i.imgur.com/L9YYENE.jpg or https://i.imgur.com/LFinzvn.jpg

Poll Results

OptionVotes
New Order 69
Rush 39


Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Sunday, 21 April 2019 20:07 (four months ago) link

Why?

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Sunday, 21 April 2019 20:35 (four months ago) link

I often think that wrt to these bands, it's true.

Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Sunday, 21 April 2019 20:39 (four months ago) link

The level at which Peter Hook hates his old bandmates give NO the edge imo. Rush are fairly boring in that regard.

Johnny Fever, Sunday, 21 April 2019 20:39 (four months ago) link

Why did they fall out?

Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Sunday, 21 April 2019 20:42 (four months ago) link

fwiw i think NO are a decent band with some great songs but they're a tad overrated on ilm

Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Sunday, 21 April 2019 20:43 (four months ago) link

and turrican we used to have some good taking sides on ilm back in the day

Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Sunday, 21 April 2019 20:44 (four months ago) link

I love NO. I only really like 1 Rush album.

. (Michael B), Sunday, 21 April 2019 20:49 (four months ago) link

how about we just vote on the merits of those two photographs

budo jeru, Sunday, 21 April 2019 21:43 (four months ago) link

sounds fair

Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Sunday, 21 April 2019 21:46 (four months ago) link

Going by live shows: Rush A. NO also an A but with chemical assistance so Rush.

29 facepalms, Sunday, 21 April 2019 21:49 (four months ago) link

Going by live shows: Rush A. NO also an A but with chemical assistance so Rush.

29 facepalms, Sunday, 21 April 2019 21:49 (four months ago) link

Saw Rush live twice (2011 and 2013, the latter with a string section) and they were great both times. I hardly ever listen to their albums.
I love everything New Order did from 1983-89, don't care about anything after that, and have no desire to see them live.

I guess that's a vote for NO?

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Sunday, 21 April 2019 21:56 (four months ago) link

Tough call! I might ultimately love the same number of albums from each, but NO has all those singles ... But then, Rush live had fans air drumming/guitaring/bassing *at the same time*.

This is an impossible choice.

Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 21 April 2019 22:21 (four months ago) link

Thanks to this poll I now have the first verse lyrics of 'Regret' stuck in my head, to the melody of the fist verse of 'Red Barchetta'.

raise my chicken finger (Willl), Sunday, 21 April 2019 22:28 (four months ago) link

*first even

also Rush wins this imo

raise my chicken finger (Willl), Sunday, 21 April 2019 22:29 (four months ago) link

Yeah, band I love vs band I mostly hate

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Sunday, 21 April 2019 23:26 (four months ago) link

I think I actually did a Joy Division vs Rush thread once, comparing how the two bands bridged the late 70s to early 80s going from heavy (if cold) guitars to icy synths over dynamic rhythm sections.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 22 April 2019 01:11 (four months ago) link

what do I get out of this?

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 22 April 2019 01:11 (four months ago) link

a double martini with Geddy Lee

buttigieg play the blues (crüt), Monday, 22 April 2019 01:16 (four months ago) link

^ the dream

budo jeru, Monday, 22 April 2019 01:33 (four months ago) link

Voted a Tetley's bitter with Stephen Morris.

Do you like 70s hard rock with a guitar hero? (Tom D.), Monday, 22 April 2019 01:34 (four months ago) link

i voted for new order but i wonder if i'd be happier if i was the kind of person who'd choose rush

Trϵϵship, Monday, 22 April 2019 14:36 (four months ago) link

I don't get what you mean by that statement, treeship. There's a lot of joy in New Order's music

. (Michael B), Monday, 22 April 2019 14:58 (four months ago) link

treeship and the snow dog
square for battle!
let the fray begin

mookieproof, Monday, 22 April 2019 15:16 (four months ago) link

Maybe treesh just wants to read some Ayn Rand than mess about with fash synths

Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Monday, 22 April 2019 15:33 (four months ago) link

Rush

EZ Snappin, Monday, 22 April 2019 15:35 (four months ago) link

I have a lot of time for New Order, but after some thought I'm going to go with Rush. Why? Because the only New Order studio album that is front-to-back great is Technique. All of the others from Movement up until Brotherhood are a mix of mostly stunning moments with the occasional bit of filler, and from Republic onwards mostly filler with the occasional stunning moment.

Every album Rush released from 2112 to Power Windows is fantastic. That's 8 fantastic studio albums vs. 1.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Monday, 22 April 2019 15:42 (four months ago) link

eight straight albums without one example of filler? That's a record unsurpassed by the Stones, Beatles, Aretha, Sleater Kinney, etc

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 22 April 2019 15:54 (four months ago) link

i like rush a lot but i think almost every record in their classic run is slightly uneven (even signals, my favorite record by them, feels this way to me). i think the same thing about new order, but imo several new order singles changed music, so it's new order

american bradass (BradNelson), Monday, 22 April 2019 16:00 (four months ago) link

I'm genuinely curious about what Treesh meant. I was trying to work out whether it's something about how a pov built around finding individual strength to struggle against meaninglessness and corruption could lead to greater happiness than expressions of joy or, uh, whatever it is that Bernard Sumner is expressing.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 22 April 2019 16:02 (four months ago) link

(although idk if there is any actual evidence that Rush fans are happier than New Order fans)

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 22 April 2019 16:03 (four months ago) link

LOL @ anyone voting Rush tbh

Freddie Starr (Hitler in shorts) (Tom D.), Monday, 22 April 2019 16:04 (four months ago) link

I'd make the same case as Turrican, just with the bands reversed and the ratio being 7 to 1 (or 10 to 1 if you include Joy Division).

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Monday, 22 April 2019 16:08 (four months ago) link

Now, if you were to just break it down the a battle of the rhythm sections ...

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 22 April 2019 16:14 (four months ago) link

Fills as integral part of composition vs fills irrelevant to process

Master of Treacle, Monday, 22 April 2019 17:22 (four months ago) link

i love a good drumfill yet fills irrelevant to process wins every time

american bradass (BradNelson), Monday, 22 April 2019 17:23 (four months ago) link

What I'm generally surprised about is how many people here seem to like (or even love) both bands! Like, in my mind they are polar opposites.

daavid, Monday, 22 April 2019 17:39 (four months ago) link

Rush.

New Order is a blind spot for me outside of a few songs. I expect them to win though.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, 22 April 2019 17:42 (four months ago) link

Rush.

New Order is a blind spot for me outside of a few songs. I expect them to win though.

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Monday, 22 April 2019 17:42 (four months ago) link

Instrumentally, it’s hard to make comparisons - Morris is the most compelling part of the band Imo due to his repetition. Geddy plays a much more traditional role to Hook and Sumner is way more like a Neil Young as a guitar player compared to Lifeson. The sonic space they occupy is obviously very different most of the time (not forgetting Gillian but just coming from the original gtr/bs/dr of the original band)

Prefer Rush as a band but can see why Morris>Peart for example; perfectly feasible to prefer NO’s setup beyond a preference to their music/albums/singles

Master of Treacle, Monday, 22 April 2019 17:46 (four months ago) link

Peart is obviously a highly influential drummer, but there are virtually no drummers clearly influenced by Peart I'd want to listen to. Morris is also massively influential, but drummers influenced by him play in all sorts of great bands.

Funny how New Order, for all its robotic inclinations, is actually super loose in its arrangements, but Rush, three versatile virtuosos pretty much capable of anything, specializes in super precise highly locked in arrangements. They really are total opposites.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 22 April 2019 18:06 (four months ago) link

"Working Man" is a rare example of a 70s hard rock song where the bassline is far more complex and busy than the guitar line. I feel like most of the propulsion in that tune is coming from the bass, buried in the mix as it is.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 22 April 2019 18:19 (four months ago) link

(talking about the verse/chorus part of the song)

I also like how Lee keeps varying the line. He hardly ever plays the same thing twice during the verses, while Lifeson keeps hammering away at the riff. It's a fun one to play.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Monday, 22 April 2019 18:22 (four months ago) link

The way Peart shakes up his arrangements is pretty awesome, too. Even in the songs with more traditional verse-chorus structure he rarely repeats himself. "Subdivisions" is a great example, he's always changing things up.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 22 April 2019 18:28 (four months ago) link

new order is better in concept than reality
rush is better in reality than in concept

I like them both, Rush did a way wider variety of and volume of great work and being an amazing live band for over 40 years counts for something

Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 22 April 2019 18:31 (four months ago) link

new order is better in concept than reality
rush is better in reality than in concept

I can get with this. For sure, the *idea* of New Order is superior (to me) to the *idea* of Rush. But in practice/reality, I probably like Rush more.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 22 April 2019 18:35 (four months ago) link

Not sure what the idea of New Order is tbf.

Freddie Starr (Hitler in shorts) (Tom D.), Monday, 22 April 2019 18:42 (four months ago) link

fusing electronics with people playing? bridging punk and programmed dance music?

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 22 April 2019 19:00 (four months ago) link

Emo Kraftwerk?

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 22 April 2019 19:01 (four months ago) link

the cure and new order often have very similar melodic sensibilities and often have prominent chorus pedal bass guitar melodies etc., so the comparison makes a lot of sense to me but i disagree with turrican's assertion that the cure were better at the musical territory where they overlap. like both are great at it but new order are more consistently great at that thing and i tend to enjoy their discography more, while the cure are much broader in sound and with that there's a lot of inconsistency.

wrt to the poll new order are probably my favourite band ever but it's hard to think of a band i'm more ambivalent on than rush? what i've heard of them is generally fine but not really my thing

ufo, Wednesday, 24 April 2019 13:57 (four months ago) link

'A Forest' is such a great song that New Order managed to get not one, but two songs out of it, and both are on Low-Life. 'Sunrise' mimics the intro without using the same chord progression, and 'This Time of Night' actually uses the chord progression. 'Sunrise' is fantastic, but not a patch on 'A Forest' ...

The same with 'All the Way' and 'Just Like Heaven', they're both great, but 'Just Like Heaven' has the edge.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 20:42 (four months ago) link

But nobody does Rush better than Rush!

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 20:47 (four months ago) link

Chord progressions are chord progressions, lots of them sound the same because lots of them are the same. I don't know why but I can't really imagine New Order sitting round listening to the Cure.

Freddie Starr (Hitler in shorts) (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 20:58 (four months ago) link

Well, they were both around at the same time so I'm willing to bet that they were aware of and listened to each other.

I'd like to think that if Ian Curtis had lived, he would have enjoyed the idea of being in The Cure.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 21:03 (four months ago) link

Possibly. Robert Smith was a big fan of Joy Division, that's pretty obvious.

Freddie Starr (Hitler in shorts) (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 21:29 (four months ago) link

here's a Cure cover of Love Will Tear Us Apart, to stay relentlessly on-topic itt

blokes you can't rust (sic), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 22:03 (four months ago) link

OK, I have now listened to one Rush song. It was called "Tom Sawyer" (the first thing YouTube threw at me). It's one of the worst things I've ever heard, amazing really how it combines so much to hate. My knowledge of both bands still rather lopsided but fuck it, I'm voting.

dorsalstop, Wednesday, 24 April 2019 22:09 (four months ago) link

listening to one song by a band and voting is such bullshit I gotta say

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 22:18 (four months ago) link

"well now I know all I need to know about that!!!" congratulations, you're the spitting image of a Trump voter

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 22:19 (four months ago) link

It is one of their most famous songs though.

Freddie Starr (Hitler in shorts) (Tom D.), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 22:21 (four months ago) link

the stakes are exactly the same too, so I feel suitably chided for having heard no Rush songs but voting New Order

blokes you can't rust (sic), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 22:22 (four months ago) link

I did hear Mix Master Mike scratching the drums from Tom Sawyer on 32kbps live streams when he joined the Beastie Boys in 1998 though

blokes you can't rust (sic), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 22:24 (four months ago) link

It's more like seeing only that clip of Trump mocking a disabled person and knowing everything there is to know.

dorsalstop, Wednesday, 24 April 2019 22:25 (four months ago) link

If you hate "Tom Sawyer" and love New Order, it's probably fair for you to safely cast your vote tbh.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 22:26 (four months ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9kYUhd7e6Y

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 23:05 (four months ago) link

I haven't heard that album in 20+ years but it came back into my head in an instant.

shared unit of analysis (unperson), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 23:07 (four months ago) link

Re: Robert Smith being a fan of the Cure, he apparently booked them as a support act back in '79

https://www.spin.com/articles/cure-lol-tolhurst-peter-hook-memoir-bollocks-sell-out

raise my chicken finger (Willl), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 23:18 (four months ago) link

I'm sure Robert Smith was a huge Cure fan!

recriminations from the nitpicking woke (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 23:24 (four months ago) link

lol whoops

raise my chicken finger (Willl), Wednesday, 24 April 2019 23:29 (four months ago) link

I rarely listen to peak-prog Rush, but I put on "A Farewell to Kings" today and thought, man, this is awesome, how can it not be Rush? But then I put on "Low-Life," which I haven't heard in who knows how long, and it kicked ass (I stand by "Emo Kraftwerk"). So ... back to square one.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 24 April 2019 23:46 (four months ago) link

lol, Willl.

Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Thursday, 25 April 2019 11:57 (four months ago) link

Rush, easily.

Now, Rush vs. Joy Division... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Thursday, 25 April 2019 16:45 (four months ago) link

one month passes...

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Thursday, 6 June 2019 00:01 (three months ago) link

This thread got me thinking about what a Rush cover of "The Perfect Kiss" would sound like. I can kind of hear it in my mind. You know Peart would be hitting all sorts of blocks and bells on the intro. I'd think it would work and might not be as unlikely a cover. I know Rush liked Ultravox quite a bit or have seen them referenced in articles.

It would work in the imaginary split 7" between the two groups. I have no idea what Rush tune New Order could do at this point but they probably would have been able to give a nice 80s tech pop sound to some of Rush's stuff like that. Can't see NO much acknowledging Rush's existence.

earlnash, Thursday, 6 June 2019 00:09 (three months ago) link

A synthetic disco version of A Farewell To Kings, with disaffected, nonchalant vocals would be nice.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 6 June 2019 00:17 (three months ago) link

I like New Order, but I think Rush are about as talented as it gets. I don't love all their stuff, but their musicianship is undeniable.

nicky lo-fi, Thursday, 6 June 2019 00:23 (three months ago) link

re: the New Order vs. The Cure discussion above, the two songs from those artists that remind me the most of each other are Your Silent Face and Plainsong, they both have a kind of downcast magnificence

New Order performing Your Silent Face at the Berkeley Community Theater was one of the most amazing live music experiences I've ever had

Dan S, Thursday, 6 June 2019 00:44 (three months ago) link

New Order could totally do one of the power ballads from Power Windows. Like Grand Designs or Middletown Dreams or Emotion Detector.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 6 June 2019 00:52 (three months ago) link

But not as well.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 6 June 2019 00:52 (three months ago) link

They could, but it's too on the nose. I'd rather hear them interpret one of the more metal/ren faire sounding tunes.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 6 June 2019 00:58 (three months ago) link

I knew opening this thread would be a mistake.

All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r), Thursday, 6 June 2019 01:15 (three months ago) link

ultimately I don't really think these bands are comparable

Dan S, Thursday, 6 June 2019 01:36 (three months ago) link

they're not anything alike, so it's just...which aesthetic / songwriting / performance style do you prefer

Dan S, Thursday, 6 June 2019 01:42 (three months ago) link

Oh c'mon, New Order's whole sound was clearly an attempt to capture the electronic majesty of Signals.

Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 6 June 2019 01:49 (three months ago) link

I liked Signals but New Order had a much more thrilling homemade emotional sound to me

Dan S, Thursday, 6 June 2019 02:02 (three months ago) link

I knew opening this thread would be a mistake.

― All along there is the sound of feedback (Sund4r),

New board description etc

Thus Spoke Darraghustra (Oor Neechy), Thursday, 6 June 2019 09:26 (three months ago) link

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Friday, 7 June 2019 00:01 (three months ago) link

98!

Mark G, Friday, 7 June 2019 10:47 (three months ago) link

Bottles of beer on the wall?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 7 June 2019 10:50 (three months ago) link

108

nicky lo-fi, Friday, 7 June 2019 12:46 (three months ago) link

Sorry, I'm sleep deprived and bitchy.

nicky lo-fi, Friday, 7 June 2019 12:47 (three months ago) link

Got a feeling New Order would beat a lot of bands on ILM

nicky lo-fi, Friday, 7 June 2019 12:49 (three months ago) link

Why does ILM not like to rock?

Mazzy Tsar (PBKR), Friday, 7 June 2019 13:58 (three months ago) link

Perfect Kiss video version rocks harder than every Rush song combined

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 7 June 2019 16:08 (three months ago) link

Barney certainly rocks those shorts.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 7 June 2019 17:35 (three months ago) link

bands in shorts poll imminent, a certain ratio's gonna win though

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 7 June 2019 18:09 (three months ago) link

I expect no less from a bunch of Canadian goofballs. New Order in shorts is more of a scandal.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 7 June 2019 18:16 (three months ago) link

70/80s was an era of rampant short shorts wearing

the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 7 June 2019 18:28 (three months ago) link


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