Post a controversial music opinion

I like the 1999 album more since I got the box set and could recreate the album almost entirely with single edits.

Not liking Stevie Wonder leaps over “controversial” into “just weird”

Nah, it's very easy to not like Stevie Wonder. I was born in December 1971, but nobody I knew listened to him when I was a kid — my mom listened to, like, John Denver and Carole King and James Taylor. So I didn't hear Stevie Wonder until I was starting to pay attention to pop music on my own in the early '80s, and that was when he was doing corny-ass bullshit like "I Just Called To Say I Love You" and "Don't Drive Drunk" and appearing on The Cosby Show. Nobody was playing Innervisions or Talking Book in my world; I didn't hear those albums until the late '90s, probably, and even then I didn't fully connect with them because the hard funk stuff was always balanced/undermined by the gooey ballads. The truth is, even on his classic early '70s run, there are deep album cuts that are stronger than the singles, and also... Stevie Wonder never seemed as cool to me as P-Funk or James Brown or Earth, Wind & Fire. And I'm not big on lyrics in general, but with a few exceptions, he's a pretty bad lyricist — there's always a certain awkwardness to his lines, they rarely land right with me.

There are like 5 Stevie Wonder songs I adore and consider some of the best music ever made. I can do without the rest of his catalog, don't care for a lot of the textures he uses and other production choices. Basically he's the 70s Prince wrt me.

I like about two dozen songs by Wonder and Prince, each over a dozen albums. When they're great, I love it; when they're good, I acknowledge it but don't feel compelled to revisit.

I love imperial-phase Stevie, including the "gooey ballads," but I think those are fair criticisms.

xp

All of your hating on Stevie Wonder are out of your fucking minds, get on SSRIs if you're not already, wtf

The Velvet Underground just weren't that good. They certainly don't merit the regard in which they are held.

YEAH BUT LIKE EVERYONE WHO HEARD THEIR ALBUMS STARTED A BAND

but fr— vu is a perfect example of something that's totally overrated but still fairly decent. see also: the beatles, my bloody valentine, stevie wonder, etc.

the key to appreciating stevie's "gooey ballads" is to listen to any of the other schlock that was clogging up the charts around the time of his classic run.

also is "visions" a gooey ballad? "as"? "heaven is a zillion lightyears away"? "i believe"? these are all immaculately constructed songs. they may be on the slow side, but they're def not boring. i even like "sunshine," beautiful little song

the only ballad of his from his big four that i skip is "they won't go when i go"

"All in Love is Fair" is pretty damn sinister.

the key to appreciating stevie's "gooey ballads" is to listen to any of the other schlock that was clogging up the charts around the time of his classic run.

"Mmm, this is garbage, but at least it's not garbage someone pissed on! Yum!"

vu is a perfect example of something that's totally overrated but still fairly decent. see also: the beatles, my bloody valentine, stevie wonder, etc.

― get shrunk by this funk. (Austin)

Yeah I agree with this. I like them all but they’re not as essential and/or important to music as some people want you to believe.

I don't understand, Moka.

I don't like The Doors, but they're Important and Influential. One has nothing to do with the other.

No, of course they are influential. Very much so.

I mean that music doesn’t exist in a vacuum, The Beatles weren’t doing things that were radically different, they were setting trends and the faces of rock/pop for a decade but they were absorbing the sounds bubbling up around them… the music panorama of the 60’s wouldn’t have been that different without them imho.

MBV and VU are definitely more unique but their status as being the most influential artists of their era seems a bit overblown to me.

As a counterexample I’d put a band like Pink Floyd as beingessential and/or influential as they say it is. I can’t think of any band from the same era that could have been a good substitute to what they were doing and the amount of influence and popularity they had in the 70’s.

idk if i follow this, the main argument in favor of the vu's influence is that they were little-noticed in their time but had an outsized influence on alternative music made in subsequent decades, not that they were particularly influential to the sounds of 60s music

doesn't matter where the influence manifested. they're still not as good as the majority would have one believe.

pink floyd is a good example of the inverse: the music of the 70s (and a lot that came after) sounds completely different without them.

the doors: now there's a truly shitty, truly overrated band. given the choice between listening to a doors album or a dog barking for 40 minutes, i'm picking the dog 100% of the time.

What if the dog is barking “People Are Strange”

yeah, i'm fine with that.

Austin have you heard "Doghouse by Neil Young?

Someone needs to make one of those novelty records where all of Jim Morrison's vocals are replaced with barking dogs.

Pink Floyd's "Doghouse by Neil Young." On Ummagumma.

Someone needs to make one of those novelty records where all of Jim Morrison's vocals are replaced with barking dogs.

― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, March 1, 2022 8:28 AM

when a novelty qualifies as a legitimate upgrade.

pink floyd is a good example of the inverse: the music of the 70s (and a lot that came after) sounds completely different without them

Does it?

I've heard a lot more bands cite VU as an influence than Pink Floyd (and I hear their music in a lot more bands, too - though that may be somewhat self-selecting, I don't know). I'd be interested to hear how one makes the "VU not actually so influential" argument, against all available evidence.

after years of being a reflexive doors hater i finally went through the discog last year and aside from the lyrics the doors were great idk

regardless of whether he deserved the status of rock poet (he didn't) morrison exuded an undeniable atmosphere which the band, a collection of outstanding musicians imo, either mirrors or subverts or jams out with, it's a great dynamic. admittedly i would listen through a lot of bullshit to hear densmore and krieger play

that is my controversial music opinion, the doors are good

The lyrics are fine for a rock band.

"aside from the lyrics"

lol defend the indefensible is thataway, friend.

also no one said vu wasn't influential.

Lyrics are the least important element in rock music.

I enjoy the occasional jam ("The Unknown Soldier") and I've stopped hating them -- it's pointless.

also no one said vu wasn't influential.

You said they're not as influential as Floyd.

There’s no absolute truths and this is the controversial opinion thread, so here’s a way to see it:

Yes, not many music sounds like Pink Floyd and that’s what makes them so essential. Argument could be that the more amount of artists that “sound” like you, the easiest it could’ve been to replace your spot in music history.

Pink Floyd’s influence came from the scope of their sound and atmosphere and textures and how they used the studio, they may not “sound” like them but a lot of classic albums from the 80’s owe a lot to Pink Floyd.

"aside from the lyrics"

lol defend the indefensible is thataway, friend.

I suppose there's no way you can post without being an asshat.

the doors rule

Argument could be that the more amount of artists that “sound” like you, the easiest it could’ve been to replace your spot in music history.

!

Hey, I’m in the correct thread!

Make the argument though!

I strongly disagree that MBV and VU were more unique than the Beatles.

To sound like Pink Floyd you needed expensive equipment and studio that most bands don’t have access to. You could start a band in your garage that sounds like VU

It would be hard for anyone to live up to the critical regard in which the VU are held but I do like their records.

xp But the studios & equipment didn't exist because of Floyd, whereas VU's sound/approach was pretty unique to them.

I think the idea that influence = bands that sound like another band is the most basic shallow way to look at influence

like once I was recording and the engineer was saying "i swear i hear a difference in drummers that came up before or after hip hop being mainstream" - he didn't mean it in the way that meant these bands were doing some sort of hip hop/rock thing (likely many of them weren't consciously influenced by hip hop at all) but just some underlying rhythmic sensibilities that he could place in how they approached their instruments and rhythm in general.

I don't know if you're still on the VU thing - but many/most artists citing VU as influence don't sound exactly like them, that's what makes the case strong. It's not just about a few slavish copies like Luna or whatever, you hear bits & pieces of VU throughout a huge swath of music that followed, and those artists also talk about how VU inspired them.

yes I agree w/that def. VU has influenced ppl in many different ways

wasn't speaking in particular, I just think in general influence is talked about in very X=Y type ways

Lyrics are the least important element in rock music.

― but also fuck you (unperson), Tuesday, March 1, 2022 11:49 AM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

yes I listen to Bob Dylan for the harmonica