Post a controversial music opinion

The very fact that '90s music' doesn't sound like 18th century music means that someone had to be original at some point to bring music to that evolutionary peak.

I've never heard "The '80s are crap," not when '80s comps got releases in 1993 and 1994. What I DO hear, and it drives me bats, is how a DX-7 sound is "dated," "of its time," while some Rickenbacker jangle from 1965 is "timeless."

xxp It's obviously simplistic, but I think it's thought-provoking, at least. A lot of the '90s music I love is very purposely looking back to older music, with various degrees of self-consciousness, irony, etc. And it seems true that '80s music (which I don't connect with as much - maybe just due to my age, I was a teen / young adult in the '90s) doesn't seem to do this as much.

Like, I'm not sure how many people a decade older than me - who "came of age" in the '80s - are really into Pavement; I get the sense that Pavement are too derivative for the crowd that came up with SST bands, Husker Du, etc. in the '80s. (The Pavement guys themselves are that age, of course.)

Agree to disagree. When I think of the 80s, I think of Erasure, Husker Du, and Cyndi Lauper. When I think of the 90s, I think of Silverchair, Collective Soul, and 4 Non Blondes

― Paul Ponzi, Monday, August 3, 2020

What about Aaliyah, Mary J. Blige, Babyface, Janet Jackson, Notorious BIG, and Missy Elliott? An extraordinary R&B and hip-hop era!

(xp to myself) ...or Royal Trux, Unrest, Sebadoh - name your history-conscious '90s indie band of choice. People born in the '60s, and thrashing in '80s mosh pits, don't seem to really connect with those bands so much?

Every time I succumb to the temptation to say, "X decade sucked!" I ask myself, "What did I miss out on and how was I wrong?"

B-b-but the SST deal was punk rock guys looking back to 60s and 70s rock in the first place.

https://youtu.be/xBKyBlJ_JN8

https://youtu.be/rWH8Xa4zGzA

music peaked in the 80s

the 1780s

Anyway, this was the actual peak and people have just been shuffling deck chairs since:

18th century music

xp!

Book 1 of Well-Tempered Clavier was 1720s, though.

Every time I succumb to the temptation to say, "X decade sucked!" I ask myself, "What did I miss out on and how was I wrong?"

I'm with you on that, but although my understanding of the 80s has deepened over the past 10-15 years, when push comes to shove, I still earnestly feel like the 90s marked a quantum leap forward for almost every single pop-adjacent genre I can think of. 90s hip-hop, r&b, metal and electronic are all ultimately better than their 80s predecessors imo. Old habits…

In fairness, Scott Miller's point was perhaps somewhat less nuanced than mine; he's talking about "Cherub Rock" when he writes the above, and he goes on to say:

In the nineties, bands pretty much had a single thought: we want to be the next Nirvana. Bands had the least fear in years that following their hearts and doing straight fuzz-guitar pop-rock was somehow old-fashioned. There were a lot of good songs. Life was simple.

I can't endorse this line of argument!!

Bach wrote "Hell Bent for Leather" iirc

It's all gone downhill since Pérotin's Viderunt omnes tbh.

I still earnestly feel like the 90s marked a quantum leap forward for almost every single pop-adjacent genre I can think of. 90s hip-hop, r&b, metal and electronic are all ultimately better than their 80s predecessors imo. Old habits…

Disco and synth pop allowed for a wider range of queer expression in the '80s though.

Most definitely true.

90s hip-hop and metal were really the second wave which broke away from the established limitations but when it comes to metal I worship the 80s like a golden cow

Celtic Frost, Slayer, Iron Maiden, Possessed, Mercyful Fate, Bathory, early Death, Bolt Thrower, Candlemass, etc.… all of them rule but what came after is one another level imo.

(I am aware that this is a patently ridiculous argument. I'm curious to hear from fellow millennials (ugh) who prefer the 80s or who think they're on par with the 90s.)

I think I would rather go clubbing in the 80s

You could fuck a guy and die!

sad lol

What about Aaliyah, Mary J. Blige, Babyface, Janet Jackson, Notorious BIG, and Missy Elliott? An extraordinary R&B and hip-hop era!

I'll concede it was a golden age for rap and r&b, but in the case of the former the most innovative shit (Native Tongues, Nas, Main Source, Hieroglyphics, Hit Squad, etc etc etc) all took place in the first half of the decade, with many carrying over from the 80s (PE, BDP, Ultramagnetic MCs). After 94 or 95, my prevailing memory of the decade is Puffy and Faith Evans

Like, I'm not sure how many people a decade older than me - who "came of age" in the '80s - are really into Pavement; I get the sense that Pavement are too derivative for the crowd that came up with SST bands, Husker Du, etc. in the '80s. (The Pavement guys themselves are that age, of course.)

I think we shouldn't think of "innovative" as a yardstick imo, especially since it's an adjective most often applied retroactively.

and how were Missy Elliott, Blige, Aaliyah, etc NOT innovative? As outgrowths of rap-influenced R&B, they sounded like nothing before the Teddy Riley productions of the late eighties.

can't argue with objective opinion

I'm going try an 19th century style diet of found-on-teh-pavement-next-to-dogshit festering maggot bacon and raw cabbage & liquorice to see if explosive farts smelled much better back then as well..... -=≡~ξ-＿-*) yeah they did!

Scott Miller was a v clever man but he's always struck me as not understanding exactly what made his own music so good - he was always much more original than he thought he was

numerology is for feebs; go 66-75, 76-85, 86-95 or go home

I'm going try an 19th century style diet of found-on-teh-pavement-next-to-dogshit festering maggot bacon and raw cabbage & liquorice to see if explosive farts smelled much better back then as well..... -=≡~ξ-＿-*) yeah they did!

If you've never caught so much as a whiff of a pleasant fragrance, they most certainly did!

originality = booshit
algebra = booshit
(controversial) opinions = booshit
innovation = oh god gak

numerology is for feebs; go 66-75, 76-85, 86-95 or go home

Either you're gerrymandering or current periodizations are already gerrymandered (inclined towards the latter hypothesis myself).

what non-gerrymandered taxonomy is there also who cares, i just think those periods are more coherent

Platonic taxonomy or bust

How about 66-76 (Aristocracy), 77-89 (Timocracy), 90-00 (Oligarchy), 01-09, (Democracy), 10-20 (Tyranny)?

I love music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJZHm5_i1vI

2006 Steve Sinton Tomáš Bureš Olga Tikhonova Silvia Finocchi Ferreira
2007 Orazio Salvatori Orazio Salvatori Alina Popa Andrea Carvalho
2008 Alessandro Savi Lionel Beyeke Vivian Hijikema Maria Stukova
2009 Mahadev Deka Martin Kasal Larissa Cunha Dora Rodrigues
2010 Charles Mario Miha Zupan Valentyna Yefyemchuk Flora Conte

xxp I definitely fall into the category of someone who grew up buying into the "80's sucked" ethos, however looking back and having a lot more knowledge of what came out during that era, I can firmly pinpoint my dislike on production and mixing fads and early digital technology being overused to a fault. Gated reverb, a renewed emphasis on upper midrange and high frequencies when mixing, near ubiquitous bass roll off after 1984, a new wave of digital FX, the way (non-punk/hardcore) distorted guitars were recorded and mixed, pre-emphasized CDs, etc.

Also the decade has two distinct flavors, the first being 80-84, which had a ton of great R&B, late disco and hybrid funk and other weird shit that retains some of that bass warmth of the 70's and groove while exhibiting some crisper arrangements and more forward thinking sounds (see Megatron Man, Computer World, The Dreaming, Straight from the Heart, etc etc).

85-90 is the second, and even after hearing a ton of things I like from this era, I still think it's one of the least interesting eras for studio albums. The club scene from this period however must have been lit, and that is where all the bass went, as it was certainly not found in the recordings. This production trend persists a few years into the 90's until maybe 92/93 when frequencies below 200hz start to make a comeback thanks to rap and house/techno making its way outside the club and onto the charts more. In fact I can think of very few fairly mainstream records from 85-89 where the production feels "timeless" like, say Talk Talk. Maybe Hounds of Love? I'm sure there's others, but it feels few and far between.

That said, the ideas expressed in the 80's, the influence of queer culture, the excitement of new sounds and genres being born or in their infancy (rap/hip hop, new jack swing, house, techno, hardcore, shoegazer, industrial music, dancehall) all make the decade something to be celebrated. I just wish it sounded better, but the 90's basically did that - refined those genres into polished gems.

numerology is for feebs; go 66-75, 76-85, 86-95 or go home

― rumpy riser (ogmor), Monday, August 3, 2020 6:59 PM (eighteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

otm.

*bullshit alert* I feel sometimes like us nerds want pop music to have the same uhhh epistemological structure as sports or science or something but it ends up all boring subtanceless theology-y

Tbf everything is boring substanceless theology.

aw pom your mom doesn't make me think of theology at all

Theology comes in many shapes and sizes, Simon.

some impressively sinewy and ripped posts itt tonight!

flatten the theology curve