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Yeah

yes, said (Ross), Friday, 7 September 2018 15:49 (three years ago) link

Troye Sivan is a better guitarist than Jimmy Page.

The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 September 2018 15:53 (three years ago) link

LOL

dig me out requiem (Ross), Friday, 7 September 2018 15:55 (three years ago) link

there are more chords, key changes, and tempo changes in The Beths' "Future Hates Me" than there are in the Cardiacs' entire discography

ilxor-com-dog-meat-drawer-7-840-x-600.jpg (unregistered), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:07 (three years ago) link

king sucks

dig me out requiem (Ross), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:13 (three years ago) link

I don't want to think about this, fortunately I made a bot for it. let's see what it comes up with:

"Is This It is the sonic equivalent of ghosting."

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:17 (three years ago) link

There were, at minimum, a couple dozen albums released in '67 which are better than Sgt. Pepper.

I Don't Have Any Ears, I Am Positive (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:23 (three years ago) link

That's not controversial.

Scottish Country Tweerking (Tom D.), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:26 (three years ago) link

R.E.M. is actually really boring

Οὖτις, Friday, 7 September 2018 16:27 (three years ago) link

wow, thread finally delivers

Chesapeake Bae (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:29 (three years ago) link

I liked R.E.M. a lot in high school and they are all smart, nice guys with good taste but man, I just never want to listen to them anymore. Somewhere around Monster I lost all interest. the limited guitar playing and lack of sonic depth, the boring arrangements, the mewling vocals, the poor production choices and terrible mandolin playing and clunky videos, their catalog feels very inert to me.

Οὖτις, Friday, 7 September 2018 16:35 (three years ago) link

like at best I can muster a "yeah that song's okay" for a number of tracks. but a whole album? ew, just never in the mood.

Οὖτις, Friday, 7 September 2018 16:35 (three years ago) link

Most bands are boring tbh

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:41 (three years ago) link

all bands are excellent

coetzee.cx (wins), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:43 (three years ago) link

^^^^

Scottish Country Tweerking (Tom D.), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:47 (three years ago) link

rt

princess of hell (BradNelson), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:48 (three years ago) link

not all bands

Οὖτις, Friday, 7 September 2018 16:55 (three years ago) link

bandsplaining

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Friday, 7 September 2018 16:58 (three years ago) link

All duos are terrible.

I Don't Have Any Ears, I Am Positive (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:00 (three years ago) link

All bands except R.E.M. are excellent

Evan, Friday, 7 September 2018 17:00 (three years ago) link

more like blands amirite

strong deutan (rip van wanko), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:01 (three years ago) link

Any musician who has not experienced - I do not say understood, but truly experienced - the necessity of dodecaphonic music is USELESS.

pomenitul, Friday, 7 September 2018 17:02 (three years ago) link

I feel like the Eagles worm has been turning for years now, but still no one is ready to say the Eagles are good. Until now folks. The Eagles are Pretty Good

strong deutan (rip van wanko), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:03 (three years ago) link

All duos are terrible.


smh

ACAB (all combos are bands)

coetzee.cx (wins), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:06 (three years ago) link

All solo artists are cowards.

I Don't Have Any Ears, I Am Positive (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:10 (three years ago) link

lol

princess of hell (BradNelson), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:11 (three years ago) link

All trios are Norwegian.

I Don't Have Any Ears, I Am Positive (Old Lunch), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:11 (three years ago) link

All ILM posters are liars

jmm, Friday, 7 September 2018 17:12 (three years ago) link

I feel like the Eagles worm has been turning for years now, but still no one is ready to say the Eagles are good. Until now folks. The Eagles are Pretty Good

― strong deutan (rip van wanko), Friday, September 7, 2018 1:03 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I have a constantly running loop of that lebowski clip in my head, but never more than last night when I was in a duane reade after hell commute that was playing take it easy

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:13 (three years ago) link

jmm otm

Evan, Friday, 7 September 2018 17:14 (three years ago) link

I feel like the Eagles worm has been turning for years now, but still no one is ready to say the Eagles are good. Until now folks. The Eagles are Pretty Good

― strong deutan (rip van wanko), Friday, September 7, 2018 10:03 AM (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"i can't tell you why" is an amazing song but i can't join you here just yet

princess of hell (BradNelson), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:15 (three years ago) link

the eagles are good

i can't tell you why is really good

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:36 (three years ago) link

other eagles songs i like: hotel california, new kid in town, try and love again, take it easy, peaceful easy feeling, witchy woman

( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:38 (three years ago) link

The High Llamas were (are?) a million times better than their 'parents', the Beach Boys.

Daniel Giraffe, Friday, 7 September 2018 17:49 (three years ago) link

that's not controversial, it's just wrong

Οὖτις, Friday, 7 September 2018 17:50 (three years ago) link

the only good Beach Boy was/is Mike Love.

omar little, Friday, 7 September 2018 17:51 (three years ago) link

High Llamas relationship to the Beach Boys was always tangential at best (and related to a very brief period/narrow slice of their catalog) and was way over-emphasized in their press materials.

I would take even the low points of M.I.U. over the High Llamas tbh

Οὖτις, Friday, 7 September 2018 17:52 (three years ago) link

No artist at all has a "New Jersey" - a huge event album that ultimately feels a bit hollow & signals a career decline

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:53 (three years ago) link

You could say that about any band that has the opportunity to develop someone else's idea further, if it works for you.

xps

Evan, Friday, 7 September 2018 17:53 (three years ago) link

There are a bunch of good Eagles songs. Every one of them was released as a single, so a compilation is all you need. There's not one Eagles album worth listening to all the way through. The Long Run comes closest.

The Beach Boys have, like, two good songs ("Good Vibrations" and "Don't Worry Baby"), and I could happily go the rest of my life without hearing either one of them ever again.

grawlix (unperson), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:53 (three years ago) link

Can't think of any.

Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:54 (three years ago) link

Black metal sucks. Even the "good" stuff is bad enough that it's worth handing the whole genre over to the Nazis and walking away. Let 'em have it.

grawlix (unperson), Friday, 7 September 2018 17:56 (three years ago) link

Does it have to be a controversial opinion that we actually hold or are we allowed to just say something we think might wind people up?

Daniel Giraffe, Friday, 7 September 2018 18:00 (three years ago) link

Saying a band or genre you don't like sucks isn't controversial or even a wind-up tbh.

everything, Friday, 7 September 2018 18:01 (three years ago) link

that late-90s Brian Wilson worship was so tiresome

strong deutan (rip van wanko), Friday, 7 September 2018 18:03 (three years ago) link

Counterpoint: at a Silver Jews show, D. Berman did a sneering routine of saying, "What's the big deal with Brian Wilson? He's so overrated," etc.; which was equally annoying.

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Friday, 7 September 2018 18:05 (three years ago) link

It could have been John Prine who wrote "Margaritaville."

Pesto Mindset (Eazy), Friday, 7 September 2018 18:09 (three years ago) link

Here's an (actually held) controversial opinion: while I've been into the Silver Jews since I first ran across "The Arizona Record" (filed under Pavement on a rack), and I think they have some terrific records, I also think Berman is significantly overvalued as a lyricist by most fans. He has some good one-liners, but his lyrics tend to be strings of "clever" non-sequiturs that only sometimes land. He's seen as some kind of rock poet.

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Friday, 7 September 2018 18:10 (three years ago) link

I feel like the Eagles worm has been turning for years now, but still no one is ready to say the Eagles are good. Until now folks. The Eagles are Pretty Good

― strong deutan (rip van wanko), Friday, September 7, 2018 10:03 AM

We have a daily listening thread that'll prove you wrong.

The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 7 September 2018 18:16 (three years ago) link

you could make a dud list for most anybody

strong deutan (rip van wanko), Friday, 7 September 2018 18:18 (three years ago) link

can we keep the word "creatives" out of this thread

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 26 June 2022 11:48 (one month ago) link

The opposite of this phenomenon might be Jacques Brel spending years trying to reinvent himself as a filmmaker (though I haven't seen any of his movies, maybe they're great - maybe Madonna's a great film director too, but I'm not eager to find out).

Halfway there but for you, Sunday, 26 June 2022 12:02 (one month ago) link

Now, a record has the ability to sidestep whatever it's supposed to do. When it ends it ENDS. This was not a guy who wanted to make a statue.

A more extreme example of this mindset would be Fela Kuti, who never performed songs live that he'd already recorded. You weren't gonna hear any of the old shit if you went to see him — you were gonna hear next year's shit.

There must be a big musician who is also a great visual artist?

Peter Brötzmann. He's designed almost all of his own album covers going back to 1965, as well as gig posters, etc., etc., but he also paints, is a printmaker, builds Rauschenberg-style sculptures and has had multiple gallery exhibits of his work.

but also fuck you (unperson), Sunday, 26 June 2022 12:58 (one month ago) link

Bono dabbles in poetry, I hear.

Antifa Sandwich Artist (Boring, Maryland), Sunday, 26 June 2022 13:36 (one month ago) link

Jonathan Richman is a pretty decent artist. I like his stuff more than Ron Wood’s anyways.

Cow_Art, Sunday, 26 June 2022 16:13 (one month ago) link

I heard he makes very nice pizza ovens as well.

Build My Gallows Hi Hi Hi (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 26 June 2022 16:18 (one month ago) link

Saying that Bowie doesn’t have blues in his music was a half-baked and on reflection clearly false stab in the dark. My apologies for the derail. One of his early bands was called the Manish Boys, for chrissakes.

o. nate, Sunday, 26 June 2022 17:10 (one month ago) link

Grimes makes her own artwork and scammed some rich person into buying an NFT of hers for 6 million or so, guess that makes her one of the most successful ones.

One of the Tool guys helps make their art and videos iirc?

✖✖✖ (Moka), Sunday, 26 June 2022 17:15 (one month ago) link

(xp) Yes, there's quite a lot of blues (rock) on "The Man Who Sold the World", for instance. Also he did TWO Pretty Things songs on "Pin Ups"!

Doodles Diamond (Tom D.), Sunday, 26 June 2022 17:35 (one month ago) link

...and "I Wish You Would" by Billy Boy Arnold via the Yardbirds.

Don't know much about visual art, but my impression is that Expressionism is hard, because latter-day attempts beg so much comparison with Schiele and a or the few other original virtousi--was a flash in the pan, wasn't it, mainly because so hard not to look anti-climatic/a little pathetic in comparison (representational art became hard in the 20th Century. The full-time artists who brought back figures effectively did something different with them, like Philip Guston. Re (enthusiastic!)johnny-come-lately,celebrity art Expressionists, I'm hinking of Bowie, Ron Wood, Mellancamp, though I haven't really seen enough to judge, even as an ignorant looker.

Dylan's album cover figurative art is fun, and true enough to the music inside, one way or anotehr (on Self-Portrait, he looks like a florid housepainter doorknob going, "Whaaa?": open that door and you are not going to get another masterpiece) the celebrity art prints are fun too, and I posted some of them on one of his threads. Beefheart was smart to take another direction, and when he did it full-time, even better. I can't think of another full-time music artist who's done that.

I suspect that if Bowie had been really serious about acting, he would have wanted the same kind of control he developed in music, where he could collaborate with Visconti and Eno and some of his studio combos. To do that with a director or producer, he would have had to put in a lot more time than he had, outside of music, to build up cred in the biz, or he would have had to put up the backing, which he could have done with some of his Bowie Bonds (when he put up his catalogue as collateral on a massive 10-year investment by Prudential), and time-wise, when he stopped doing the huge tours and put out albums less frequently
Are there musicians who are "just musicians" and others who are capitol-A "Artists" or "creatives" first and foremost, and how can you tell the difference? Reminds me that after he started playing violin and trumpet and maybe some other instruments besides sax on records and stage, Ornette said that he kept in mind what he wanted to do on an instrument, not just how to play it in a technical, instruction book sense (didn't mention taking lessons, pretty sure). Seems like this was the main thing with Bowie, although he did, early on, take sax lessons from Peter Frampton's father, and xgau said something along the lines of "he's learned to sing, whoopee" re one of the records, like conventional capability was kind of irrelevant or secondary in the Bowie experience (also, he still didn't like that particular record all that much).

Oh yeah, it's from his Heathen review! (2002, so not prime time Bo, I guess, dunno)

...He has indeed Learned to Sing, thus rendering himself more the chansonnier only art-rockers ever wanted him to be, and the strain is hell on his sense of humor. The textures are nicer now, but whose aren't? And while the songwriting ain't bad, it also ain't that good. Just switch between the Black Francis cover and any other track and you'll know exactly what I mean. C+

dow, Sunday, 26 June 2022 18:25 (one month ago) link

chansonnier so this could be more a matter of taste, foible, prejudice to an extent, since xgau was always swiping at what he liked to call Yurropean artiness, despite having approved albums where Bowie did actually lower-case sing good, like most of Station To Station. But yeah, can see how he was more attracted to Bowie's brash rocker attitude early on, like, "I'm not the best muso, not a great composer, but fuck it, I'm gonna do it." Which was also what Madonna said, pretty much, at least once.

dow, Sunday, 26 June 2022 18:38 (one month ago) link

What "controversial opinion" are people discussing here?

the pinefox, Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:01 (one month ago) link

Reminds me that after he started playing violin and trumpet and maybe some other instruments besides sax on records and stage, Ornette said that he kept in mind what he wanted to do on an instrument, not just how to play it in a technical, instruction book sense (didn't mention taking lessons, pretty sure).

Fun fact: in 1961 Bill Dixon gave Ornette three (by his count) trumpet lessons, loaned him his mouthpiece, and later took him to Frank Zottola to get his (Ornette’s) own mouthpiece made.

It’s all a rich tapestry.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:01 (one month ago) link

Oh yeah, thanks. Think the first record of him playing trumpet was---Live At The Golden Circle? Rec. '65, released in '66. So several years of woodshedding or rumination, maybe. Also unrecorded or un(legit only?) issued performances from those years---?

dow, Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:15 (one month ago) link

There’s his 1962 Town Hall concert, but that wasn’t released until 1965. After that concert didn’t get the attention he’d hoped for, he didn’t perform or record for several years, but surely during that period he put in some serious time on the trumpet.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:34 (one month ago) link

(Sorry, that was confusing: he didn’t play trumpet on the Town Hall show, but after that, didn’t play or record anything/anywhere for a few years.)

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:35 (one month ago) link

On a Bowie Tip, the entire "Let's Dance" concert is available on YouTube.

It's kind of like a Broadway revue.

Good singing is very much like acting, without all of the minutia and situational snags that might reveal a singer's shortcomings, but some singers have done quite well. Then again, so have comedians and other amateurs.

I Met Mr. Mathis (I M Losted), Sunday, 26 June 2022 19:48 (one month ago) link

I’d be down for thread about good singers/musicians who are also good actors… seems like there is a lot of crossover there.

Bunheads Pilot Enthusiast (morrisp), Sunday, 26 June 2022 21:00 (one month ago) link

I relistened to "Sweet Thing/Candidate/Sweet Thing (Reprise)" and, yeah, he has such great ideas on guitar and sax.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 28 June 2022 13:50 (one month ago) link

When I first heard it nearly 30 years ago I thought Diamond Dogs was a dud but now I really like it.

Antifa Sandwich Artist (Boring, Maryland), Tuesday, 28 June 2022 15:36 (one month ago) link

Limmy singing Wrong Way Down a One Way Street>>>>anything by Bruce Springsteen

calzino, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 06:14 (one month ago) link

Limmy singing Take a Little Time>>>>Limmy singing Wrong Way Down a One Way Street>>>>anything by Bruce Springsteen

Eavis Has Left the Building (Tom D.), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 06:58 (one month ago) link

ah think it’s “doan”, like

assert (matttkkkk), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 13:25 (one month ago) link

The Phil Collins version of “You Can’t Hurry Love” has a better vocal performance than the Supremes version

castanuts (DJP), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 15:54 (one month ago) link

boom

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 15:56 (one month ago) link

Take a look at me now!

Build My Gallows Hi Hi Hi (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:05 (one month ago) link

now I imagine a Diana Ross cover of "Don't Lose My Number."

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:19 (one month ago) link

The only reason he covered that song was because he once saw someone hurrying love, and he wanted to invite them to his show and then make them die out of shame.

Halfway there but for you, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:24 (one month ago) link

speaking of: her cover of “I Will Survive” was way better than her versions of her own hits at Glastonbury last weekend, but I doubt that controversial for anyone who’s watched that performance

big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:28 (one month ago) link

xp re: Diana Ross

big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:29 (one month ago) link

doubt that*’s* controversial

big movers, hot steppers + long shaker intros (breastcrawl), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 16:30 (one month ago) link

1998 is a terrible year for music, much worse than 1997 or 1999

Portrait Of A Dissolvi Ng Drea M (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 18:16 (one month ago) link

I don’t know about much worse, but I agree it’s even weaker than those two. I’m a little surprised by the 1998 love on here, but a lot of it seems to be from folks who were a certain age around them.

Bunheads Pilot Enthusiast (morrisp), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 18:54 (one month ago) link

*then

Bunheads Pilot Enthusiast (morrisp), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 18:55 (one month ago) link

I was 15 in 1998 and can’t stand most of the shit they’re talking about in that thread lol

brimstead, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 20:09 (one month ago) link

Watching Roisin Murphy's performance from Zagreb earlier this month, I think she's got the Bowie vibe but is far more talented and charismatic than he was.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 20:11 (one month ago) link

u fiend

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 20:34 (one month ago) link

I don't think there's all that much love on the 1998 thread tbh!

No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 20:44 (one month ago) link

I think most popstars are much more charismatic than Bowie

boxedjoy, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 20:45 (one month ago) link

OK, that may be a little overstated.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 20:50 (one month ago) link

I was glad to see ms Ross standing up and getting recognition and being able to tell that people liked her, but I can't say that she sang her songs well. I was also disappointed with the level of her skills at talking to a crowd. I would say "maybe she was nervous" if that didn't sound daft for someone so important.

the pinefox, Wednesday, 29 June 2022 21:01 (one month ago) link

Someone so important and experienced. She's been doing this since the late 50s.

immodesty blaise (jimbeaux), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 21:04 (one month ago) link

I was glad to see ms Ross standing up and getting recognition and being able to tell that people liked her, but I can't say that she sang her songs well. I was also disappointed with the level of her skills at talking to a crowd. I would say "maybe she was nervous" if that didn't sound daft for someone so important.

Hasn't she always been terrible at crowd work (and human interaction in general)? I thought this was common knowledge.

but also fuck you (unperson), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 21:04 (one month ago) link

Whitechocolatespaceegg >> Exile in Guyville

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 21:06 (one month ago) link

Oh, I totally agree with that

Bunheads Pilot Enthusiast (morrisp), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 21:16 (one month ago) link

and I love EIG.

Malevolent Arugula (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 29 June 2022 21:25 (one month ago) link

That is correct

Nutellanor Roosevelt (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 30 June 2022 09:48 (one month ago) link

no way in hell

broccoli rabe thomas (the table is the table), Thursday, 30 June 2022 15:18 (one month ago) link


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