POLL away the dew... Best Grateful Dead recurring live jam/transition piece

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In the entire recorded history of Grateful Dead concerts, which of these set "highlights" is collectively highest overall?

Poll Results

OptionVotes
Dark Star 21
China>Rider 15
Help>Slip>Frank 10
Feedback/Seastones 5
Scarlet>Fire 3
Playin' in the Band 2
The Other One 1
Drums>Space 0
Lovelight 0
Not Fade Away 0
Another One (please explain) 0


BrianB, Tuesday, 31 July 2018 22:13 (four months ago) Permalink

Lengthy slipknots in help>slip>Frank put it over the top for me.

BrianB, Tuesday, 31 July 2018 22:16 (four months ago) Permalink

come on.

I love many 72-74 Playing In The Bands and am a big Help>Slip>Frank guy, but there's only one answer here.

Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 31 July 2018 22:17 (four months ago) Permalink

The first '90s "Space" I heard was basically someone running through the presets of a DX7 in a music store. I have not revisited '90s Dead since.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 31 July 2018 23:49 (four months ago) Permalink

Every one of these has several incredibly brilliant versions and likely as many horrifically bad versions...except for "Feedback." There is no bad (nor even mediocre) "Feedback," and it was my way into the Dead, so I'm voting "Feedback."

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 31 July 2018 23:51 (four months ago) Permalink

china-->rider is the most reliable

ant banks and wasp (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 31 July 2018 23:53 (four months ago) Permalink

I love many 72-74 Playing In The Bands and am a big Help>Slip>Frank guy, but there's only one answer here.

― Paul Ponzi

"seastones", right?

Arch Bacon (rushomancy), Tuesday, 31 July 2018 23:57 (four months ago) Permalink

It seems that when The Other One lead to Dark Star or vice versa, you are in for a looooong jam.

earlnash, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 01:19 (four months ago) Permalink

*votes for cryptic envelopment*

princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 1 August 2018 01:36 (four months ago) Permalink

j/k for me this is "help/slip/tower" easily, the suite that got me into the dead. "playing in the band" is probably second, i've literally tried to convert people to the dead with the veneta '72 "playing"

princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 1 August 2018 01:37 (four months ago) Permalink

I love many 72-74 Playing In The Bands and am a big Help>Slip>Frank guy, but there's only one answer here.

― Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, July 31, 2018 3:17 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is it dark star

i mean having heard a '70 dark star recently yeah it's undeniable

princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 1 August 2018 01:38 (four months ago) Permalink

china-->rider is the most reliable

Truth

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Wednesday, 1 August 2018 02:06 (four months ago) Permalink

china-->rider is the most reliable

Truth

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Wednesday, 1 August 2018 02:06 (four months ago) Permalink

otmx2

princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 1 August 2018 02:07 (four months ago) Permalink

Honestly at a loss here, completely torn. Advocates, post your favorite versions! Make your case!

flappy bird, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 04:39 (four months ago) Permalink

China Cat Sunflower > I Know You Rider has a hell of a payoff, but China Cat itself is one of those psychedelic lyrics that just has me going "are you kidding me?"

Help on the Way > Slipknot! > Franklin's Tower for me any day.

how's life, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 12:55 (four months ago) Permalink

Does the Eleven fit here, cos that's a great one they did for the last couple of years of the 60s.

Also I thought Other One and Dark Star were songs they did on alternative nights or at least alternative sets so can't remember and Other one in to Dark Star. Is it a klater thing? Cos I tend to focus more on the period up to the retirement in 74, probably mainly from late 67/early 68.

Spanish Jam is another great one, though may be a pretty straight lift from bits of Sketches of Spain initially. THink it may have become more open ended as things went on.

Stevolende, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 13:02 (four months ago) Permalink

There are definitely late 60s/early 70s shows where they play both Dark Star and The Other One in the second set, but can't remember if they ever actually transitioned straight from song one to the other.

Really like those 72 shows where they go from Dark Star or The Other One into Wharf Rat.

Ward Fowler, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 13:18 (four months ago) Permalink

^^yup

constitutional crises they fly at u face (will), Wednesday, 1 August 2018 13:26 (four months ago) Permalink

The first "Wharf Rat" I ever heard was the one that emerged from "Dark Star" on Dusseldorf 4/24/72 (Rockin' the Rhein). It was like watching an unexpected sunrise.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 1 August 2018 13:51 (four months ago) Permalink

Kinda feel likeChina/Rider is the mayonnaise of these options. Not super flashy but oh so essential. Ties a lot of things together and stands the test of time.

tobo73, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 16:57 (four months ago) Permalink

This is like Mornington Crescent for American music nerds

Father Ted in Forkhandles (Tom D.), Wednesday, 1 August 2018 17:11 (four months ago) Permalink

I could've added more options but they didn't seem to quite fit. St Stephen going into the eleven was awesome and done a lot in 69 and spliced among other tunes after that, but I think of it as more of a contained song than a jumping off point like I was reaching for with this poll. Terrapin is usually a set highlight for me but it's more epic than jammy. Truckin' was a big jam vehicle for awhile, going off into nobody's fault but mine or whatever, but it's also their hit single and I figured no one would pick it from this list. As second set jam vehicles go, maybe China>Rider doesn't fit with the others because it is so consistent and often was a first set treat. And NFA doesn't really fit because it was mainly a second set closing steady beat sing-along, but whatever, plz post more examples of songs & transitions that get so far out that you forget what they are until they come back again. That Cornell scarlet fire Alice in wonderland video above is super trippy.i love it.

BrianB, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 18:14 (four months ago) Permalink

Only other thing I can think of is the ending jam to Eyes O the World but that was p much limited to 73 and 74 so it lacks the staying power. Same goes for St Stephen>Eleven imo.

tobo73, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 19:31 (four months ago) Permalink

Not Fade Away is the Margaritaville of the dead repertoire btw. A cheap sugar high that has no place on this list of epic visionary super-jams.

tobo73, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 19:34 (four months ago) Permalink

generally agree with you ... but this NFA sequence is kinda unbelievable: https://aquariumdrunkard.com/2013/09/05/dead-notes-4-91970-fillmore-east-nyc/

tylerw, Wednesday, 1 August 2018 19:44 (four months ago) Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeE6QysNp24

princess of hell (BradNelson), Wednesday, 1 August 2018 19:45 (four months ago) Permalink

I feel like once I opened the door to Lovelight, I had to let Not Fade Away in too. At least I kept out sugar magnolia>sunshine daydream off the list.

I dig the 77 swing help>slip>Frank:
https://youtu.be/VFuECv5sB2o

& that show has a great eyes of the world end jam as mentioned above w/ bass solo!

BrianB, Thursday, 2 August 2018 03:30 (four months ago) Permalink

three weeks pass...

One for the Dark Star contingent:
https://archive.org/details/gd72-08-21.sbd.hamilton.150.sbeok.shnf/gd72-08-21d3t01.shn#

Berkley '72

BrianB, Saturday, 25 August 2018 16:13 (three months ago) Permalink

happy 8/27 eve everyone

global tetrahedron, Sunday, 26 August 2018 17:06 (three months ago) Permalink

China>Rider

Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Monday, 3 September 2018 04:13 (three months ago) Permalink

China>Rider

Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Monday, 3 September 2018 04:13 (three months ago) Permalink

bill! hello!

The Desus & Mero Chain (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 3 September 2018 04:13 (three months ago) Permalink

Uncle John's Band might fit in this list. Don't know if it was as predictable a jammer as some of these, but I know I have a bunch of shows where it gets out there. More than China Cat>Rider, anyway (though I'll take China Cat>Rider over UJB any day!)

Lavator Shemmelpennick, Thursday, 6 September 2018 19:54 (three months ago) Permalink

I want to get into live Grateful Dead but they have like 50 billion live albums. Where the hell do you start? Live/Dead? Europe 72? One of the Dick's Picks?

Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 6 September 2018 20:59 (three months ago) Permalink

"sunshine daydream"

milkshake duck george bernard shaw (rushomancy), Thursday, 6 September 2018 21:03 (three months ago) Permalink

the sunshine daydream "playin' in the band" is what i use to introduce people to the live dead; they get it or... they don't

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 21:05 (three months ago) Permalink

some people just hear noodling but i hear free jazz spaghetti nightmare

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 21:17 (three months ago) Permalink

I want to get into live Grateful Dead but they have like 50 billion live albums. Where the hell do you start? Live/Dead? Europe 72? One of the Dick's Picks?

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 6 September 2018 22:59 (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Live/Dead and 72 are both decent starting points. Different styles. Give both a listen if you can.

Duke, Thursday, 6 September 2018 21:26 (three months ago) Permalink

I mean, if you don't like either of those official releases, you won't like the "best ever" live recording that any given Deadhead recommends from three decades of gigs either.

Duke, Thursday, 6 September 2018 21:30 (three months ago) Permalink

sunshine daydream (which is also 72 fwiw and pairs nicely with officially released europe comp from that same year) is the gateway imo. Skip right to the second half to see what the fuss is about. Best "Dark Star" ever, maybe

Even better: watch the movie of the concert. I feel like if you watch that and don't come away a Deadhead, it's not gonna happen

Paul Ponzi, Thursday, 6 September 2018 21:44 (three months ago) Permalink

What’s the version of “Dark Star” that’s on the Zabriskie Point soundtrack? I like that one.

Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 6 September 2018 22:43 (three months ago) Permalink

that's from Live Dead, I think

tylerw, Thursday, 6 September 2018 22:53 (three months ago) Permalink

It's from Live/Dead.

As much as I love Sunshine Daydream, I'm completely unconvinced that it will seduce anyone over any other Dead album. That "holy grail" song search is for Deadheads only

Duke, Thursday, 6 September 2018 22:54 (three months ago) Permalink

watch the movie of the concert

warning if you are alienated by the fans of this band, don't watch the movie of this concert

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 22:58 (three months ago) Permalink

"live/dead" is the easiest answer but i'm hesitant to recommend it because i don't like it!

milkshake duck george bernard shaw (rushomancy), Thursday, 6 September 2018 22:59 (three months ago) Permalink

i was already a convert by the time i heard the live/dead dark star but it is really great and accessible-seeming

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 23:01 (three months ago) Permalink

i put it on sometimes when i'm writing

princess of hell (BradNelson), Thursday, 6 September 2018 23:02 (three months ago) Permalink

I was trying to think of an 80s answer to this question, taking to heart Duke's comment above, which is probably OTM. What came to mind is the first set of the pay-per-view from Summer of 1989 at Shoreline. The date is 6-21-89, I think. Pro quality video and a completely solid set of tunes, several of them catchy and upbeat. Jerry is lively and smiling a bunch, and is having a pretty good hair day.

tobo73, Friday, 7 September 2018 02:33 (three months ago) Permalink

I think the 12-2-73 jam might be up your minimalist alley. It’s very quiet and mellow and spacey. No shredding until the meltdown much later in the set.

tobo73, Saturday, 8 September 2018 15:14 (three months ago) Permalink

the "playin" jam? yeah i'm liking it a lot!

milkshake duck george bernard shaw (rushomancy), Saturday, 8 September 2018 15:23 (three months ago) Permalink

"eyes of the world" which is a song i can't fucking stand. (yeah, probably not a deadhead in waiting...)

ha ha ha, probably not. Eyes is one of my favorites, I can listen to it endlessly. Different strokes, I guess

regarding that jam on dp1 - is that the jam -> other one -> jam sequence?

that's the one I was thinking of, yes!

he does this thing that sounds like, i don't know, triplet scales, he's just going up and down the fretboard in triplets.

Good ear. Jerry does indeed love the triplets (and pull-offs). But he'll often throw an extra note in, or take one away, or jump a few intervals, or something. His unpredictability is one of the qualities about his playing I love most. Whatever you can say about Jerry, his playing was never 'stock.' No tired blues licks (ahem, Allman Brothers), no cliches, no machismo. Just endless openness and a lot of heart.

Paul Ponzi, Saturday, 8 September 2018 15:35 (three months ago) Permalink

I'm sure it's not just straight scales. Honestly, it reminds me a little bit of early period Coltrane - a lot of the stuff Trane plays can come perilously close to scale exercises. I'd have to say, though, that I like Coltrane in spite of this tendency rather than because of it - he's playing fast, he's playing a lot of notes, and most of them don't really add anything. It's still better than a sack of blues cliches, because at least there's _something_ there, but it's a lot more work than it should be to hear it.

I think in a lot of ways the Dead have a good attitude towards playing. They're very open to failure, and that openness takes them to places most other bands wouldn't get to. However, I do find most of the actual failures to be, unsurprisingly, pretty bad. That's why it's easier for me to listen in retrospect, because I can just get the bits where they went somewhere cool. It's sort of like a retrospective version of the editing Holger Czukay would do on Can's endless, aimless jams. For the old-style fans who wanted the actual uncertainty, of course, there's nothing left, that trip is over, but I find that I have enough genuine uncertainty in my life.

milkshake duck george bernard shaw (rushomancy), Saturday, 8 September 2018 16:19 (three months ago) Permalink

Gang I think I’m becoming a deadhead at age 45

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 10 September 2018 18:31 (three months ago) Permalink

hell yeah

the new PNW set (the 3-disc version, I can't afford these huge Dead sets) is a great listen. one of the best "bird song"s ... incredible 40-minute "Playin" ... sick jams.

tylerw, Monday, 10 September 2018 18:51 (three months ago) Permalink

best "Bird Song" ever, I think, though I think the PitB is more long than essential. I can't afford the box either, hoping I can get a rip for someone who can, this is a great period

Paul Ponzi, Monday, 10 September 2018 19:27 (three months ago) Permalink

I passed out last night listening to the Live Dead Dark Star while reading 'Children of Dune' and felt like I was sufficiently living my best life, Sunday Night edition

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 10 September 2018 19:43 (three months ago) Permalink

^^^^

tobo73, Monday, 10 September 2018 20:22 (three months ago) Permalink

the new PNW set (the 3-disc version, I can't afford these huge Dead sets) is a great listen. one of the best "bird song"s ... incredible 40-minute "Playin" ... sick jams.

― tylerw, Monday, 10 September 2018

PNW? I should know this....!

Duke, Monday, 10 September 2018 21:27 (three months ago) Permalink

Pacific
North
West

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 10 September 2018 21:29 (three months ago) Permalink

Aha! Thanks

Duke, Monday, 10 September 2018 21:29 (three months ago) Permalink

my beloved homeland!

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 10 September 2018 21:33 (three months ago) Permalink

Given I own the 9 disc, 1973 Winterland complete recordings set, I can't justify getting that PNW set.

Apart from Cornell 1977 and the 1978 Closing of Winterland, all of my Dead collection is 69-74. Really must check more later stuff.

Duke, Monday, 10 September 2018 21:44 (three months ago) Permalink

Sorry if I'm derailing the discussion here

Duke, Monday, 10 September 2018 21:44 (three months ago) Permalink

Duke I am a big fan of 1985. They were p high-energy, perhaps in honor of the 20th anniversary. Jerry plays hard even if his voice sounds like a croaking frog. I kind of like that!

tobo73, Monday, 10 September 2018 21:54 (three months ago) Permalink

Cheers - I'll have a listen

Duke, Monday, 10 September 2018 22:12 (three months ago) Permalink

If I may derail -- I'm listening to the Cornell 5/8/77 set at the moment... this take of "Row Jimmy" just SNAPS so hard

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Monday, 10 September 2018 22:41 (three months ago) Permalink

"Fire on the Mountain" *kills* on this one, too...

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Monday, 10 September 2018 23:04 (three months ago) Permalink

What other shows are as good as this one??

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Monday, 10 September 2018 23:11 (three months ago) Permalink

best "Bird Song" ever, I think, though I think the PitB is more long than essential.

― Paul Ponzi

god, i feel sorry for those kids up in seattle. first they have to sit through 45 minutes of playin' and then the next year led zeppelin comes through and puts them all to sleep with "dazed and confused" for 45 minutes. what did they ever do to deserve such a fate?

milkshake duck george bernard shaw (rushomancy), Monday, 10 September 2018 23:45 (three months ago) Permalink

What other shows are as good as this one??

― stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Monday, September 10, 2018 7:11 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

see above, but Veneta 72 and Cornell 77 should be your next stops

Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 01:17 (three months ago) Permalink

This is Cornell 77!

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 01:36 (three months ago) Permalink

(The “St. Stephen” that winds it down is surprisingly mushy, btw)

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 01:40 (three months ago) Permalink

I like Dick's Picks #3 (5/22/77) as much as Cornell (maybe more), and it has probably their best "Sugaree."

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 14:09 (three months ago) Permalink

Thx! I love a good “Franklin’s Tower”

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 14:17 (three months ago) Permalink

dick's picks 3 is the first live dead thing i ever listened to that made me think "huh maybe there's something to this." it was in the middle of that "sugaree"

princess of hell (BradNelson), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 14:25 (three months ago) Permalink

it was just that incredible looseness, they all sound like they're tripping over each other and it creates this critical mass of interweaving melodies and then jerry starts angrily strumming 10 minutes in and boy does it fucking rule

princess of hell (BradNelson), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 14:37 (three months ago) Permalink

Ha, it's been that very show that I've been playing nonstop. I had finally connected with the studio Help/Slipknot/Franklin & wanted to hear what a good live version was, and Dick's Picks 3 was where I landed.

Scam jam, thank you ma’am (Sparkle Motion), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 17:09 (three months ago) Permalink

I’m psyched that I just arrived at work and can listen to it! (It’s not one I own)

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 17:21 (three months ago) Permalink

Best Help>Slip>Franklin imo is the one that kicks off that Great American Music Hall '75 show aka One From the Vault. Check it out, it rules (even the Bill Graham intro is goosebump worthy)

Paul Ponzi, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 19:59 (three months ago) Permalink

Cool, thx! I have Two From the Vault, but never heard One

stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 20:04 (three months ago) Permalink

Yeah, I love how Graham introduces each member and they each come into the mix, that's super cool. xp

Freddy "Boom Boom" QAnon (Dan Peterson), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 20:17 (three months ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Sunday, 30 September 2018 00:01 (two months ago) Permalink

there's some incredible china > riders and and the jam section of playin can go very deep until it gets donna jeaned and long slipknots are beautiful and not fade away, on the right night, is like sunshine through the clouds, but this is dark star, all the way, forever.

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 30 September 2018 11:25 (two months ago) Permalink

Oh shit I totally got donna jeaned the other day - like ten minutes into Playing and suddenly AAAAAHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYEAHYEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH out of nowhere

joygoat, Sunday, 30 September 2018 14:31 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah, that's pretty standard fare for the 70s, not "out of nowhere" at all. It's usually in the same place in the song every time. In fact, when I hear a post-79 PITB and there's no scream, its absence is pretty conspicuous and I kinda miss it

Paul Ponzi, Sunday, 30 September 2018 19:59 (two months ago) Permalink

This took me by surprise cause it had come up on shuffle in the car and I didn’t know what era it was until she came in

joygoat, Sunday, 30 September 2018 20:38 (two months ago) Permalink

Hahahaha

Duke, Sunday, 30 September 2018 20:59 (two months ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Monday, 1 October 2018 00:01 (two months ago) Permalink

Surprised only two votes for PitB.

Feedback/ Seastones lol, forgot I was on ILX for a second, thanks for the reminder

Paul Ponzi, Monday, 1 October 2018 00:28 (two months ago) Permalink

Other One should have ranked higher, it's a contender

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Monday, 1 October 2018 00:37 (two months ago) Permalink

early versions, ya. after the hiatus playin/other one got a little tepid imo

global tetrahedron, Monday, 1 October 2018 01:14 (two months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Today in grateful dead history: truckin>the other one jam>the other one>jam>big river>the other one>eyes of the world>the other one>wharf rat! https://archive.org/details/gd73-11-14.sbd.vernon.5612.sbeok.shnf/gd73-11-14d3t06.shn

BrianB, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 21:55 (one month ago) Permalink

I was listening to GD Radio in the car the other day; there was a casual transition into "Wharf Rat" (from I forget which song) that was just so choice.

too busy or too stoned (morrisp), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 22:02 (one month ago) Permalink

Drums>space got no love in this poll. But it never fails to impress my wife who HATES the dead and rountinely complains when i'm listening to them around her, especially if it's fire on the mountain - "when will this damn song be over?" But when drums>space is on, she's always like, "I like this, what is it?"

BrianB, Wednesday, 14 November 2018 22:11 (one month ago) Permalink

There is no Grateful Dead song that my wife would tolerate for a millisecond!

verlaine & rambo (morrisp), Wednesday, 14 November 2018 22:26 (one month ago) Permalink

two weeks pass...

Another sublime other one today: https://archive.org/details/gd1971-12-01.partial-set2-matrix.vernon.83164.flac16/gd71-12-01matrix03.flac

BrianB, Saturday, 1 December 2018 15:06 (two weeks ago) Permalink

The detour through south Colorado West Texas bound and back onto the bus again is one of those lost in the song moments,wait where are we? What is this?

BrianB, Saturday, 1 December 2018 15:14 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Then not fade away comes up like a cathartic signpost pointing the way down the road where the climate suits my clothes.

BrianB, Saturday, 1 December 2018 15:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink


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