Pavement vs. Royal Trux

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Including solo careers.

Royal Trux all the way fuiud!

Poll Results

OptionVotes
Pavement 68
Royal Trux 34


you bet, nancy (map), Saturday, 19 May 2018 03:37 (one month ago) Permalink

My two favorite bands! GTFO

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Saturday, 19 May 2018 03:41 (one month ago) Permalink

That’s some Superman vs. Batman shit

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Saturday, 19 May 2018 03:43 (one month ago) Permalink

I'm with map on this. RTX FTW!!

VyrnaKnowlIsAHeadbanger, Saturday, 19 May 2018 03:49 (one month ago) Permalink

this is like bread vs foie gras, if you have to choose one you choose bread

salt sugar fat, that's where it's at (rip van wanko), Saturday, 19 May 2018 04:17 (one month ago) Permalink

In some ways you and I are v different ppl

albvivertine, Saturday, 19 May 2018 05:18 (one month ago) Permalink

It’s heart & soul vs. the cold fire of genius... matter / antimatter; heroes / antiheroes. VU united both registers, the heat & the cold; maybe you could say the Fall did, too, in their heyday. In the ’90s, these forces bifurcated – thank the Elders of the Universe at Drag City for bringing the Infinity Gems together, at least at the inception.

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Saturday, 19 May 2018 05:20 (one month ago) Permalink

I fucking loathe Pavement so deffo RTX, who were quite "out there" and inspired at times. Oh Pavement tho, jesus wept, what is the point to this type of oversubscribed pedestrian indie-rock shit?

calzino, Saturday, 19 May 2018 09:11 (one month ago) Permalink

I like turtles

right brain ringworm (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 19 May 2018 09:15 (one month ago) Permalink

banana question

reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 19 May 2018 11:28 (one month ago) Permalink

trux, easy (i like pavement)

Paul Ponzi, Saturday, 19 May 2018 12:48 (one month ago) Permalink

Teenage me is all like 'wut?' but Trux, easily.

Now I know my ABCs. Next time won't you scream at me? (Old Lunch), Saturday, 19 May 2018 13:18 (one month ago) Permalink

i love pvmnt. and i can't really listen to rltrx. so, an easy one for me.

scott seward, Saturday, 19 May 2018 14:17 (one month ago) Permalink

http://images.45cat.com/royal-trux-hero-zero-1989-3.jpg

Saw them when they toured together in 97 (Brighten The Corners vs. Sweet Sixteen), unfortunately the Trux were still riding the horse pretty hard at the time and their performance suffered. Pavement was probably riding the Amstel Lights pretty hard and equally suffered but not as visibly. Both bands probably hated each other equally at the time.

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 19 May 2018 14:35 (one month ago) Permalink

Both bands probably hated each other equally at the time.

internally and externally

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 19 May 2018 14:36 (one month ago) Permalink

I didn’t know they toured together in ’97... I saw them both separately that year

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Saturday, 19 May 2018 14:43 (one month ago) Permalink

Pavement wrote 'Heaven Is A Truck', and ripped the first part of 'Spike Cyclone' for a few bars of 'Half A Canyon'. Malkmus has waxed poetic on them many times:

When Pavement was going, it was Forced Exposure and Gerard Cosloy's Conflict, and it was real, real small. Little bands like the Royal Trux, they were so important, their first album even though weren't even a band yet. (https://pitchfork.com/features/interview/7592-stephen-malkmus/)

"Rain Ammunition" (from a John Peel session): Malkmus: That was like imagining a Sticky Fingers Stones, minor chord-y kind of Royal Trux-y, Stones-y, melancholy, druggy song. I don't know what [the lyrics] are about. I couldn't even tell you. They're just, like, weird shit. (http://www.newsweek.com/stephen-malkmus-guide-pavements-secret-history-359263)

I like bands that have an aura to them. There's a band I like, Royal Trux. They have more of an evil side to them; they're meaner than us. Like, they don't write "nice" songs. I mean, we are nice suburban boys in the end. We try to have a bit of swagger that comes off a little sexist in some lyrics. That's part of our going for that classic-rock thing. (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/q-a-pavements-stephen-malkmus-on-painting-curbs-thrift-store-shopping-and-selling-out-19970320)

I like the Royal Trux and Guided By Voices, I think they’re particularly gifted. (https://bombmagazine.org/articles/stephen-malkmus/)

Prior to new album's release, Malkmus talked a bit about what inspired the music, pointing to some unexpected and refreshing touchstones in newer underground rock, like Sic Alps. "They have, to me, taken some of the trashiness of Royal Trux, which is a band I liked a lot, in the right way," he says now. "Sometimes you'll hear these bands like the Kills and MGMT say, 'We're into the Royal Trux.' And you listen to them and think, 'Where is the Royal Trux in this? I don't hear it.' Okay, maybe you're a duo, and you smoke cigarettes and you're tough. You don't get to call yourself Royal Trux-influenced. (http://www.westword.com/music/stephen-malkmus-and-the-jicks-rock-the-gothic-this-week-5123341)

Bit of a boring question, I’m afraid, but what were the five albums that influenced you most? David Portner (Avey Tare), Animal Collective Malkmus: That’s a tough question! Okay – Ege Bamyasi by Can. Loaded by the Velvets, Hex Enduction Hour by The Fall, Born Innocent by Redd Kross, and Cats And Dogs by Royal Trux. There. That’s five. All classics! (http://www.uncut.co.uk/features/an-audience-with-stephen-malkmus-15465#LGM5eXv032DtXE2E.99)

and this hilarious quote from Mark Ibold:

Malkmus has said that this song “Heaven Is a Truck” is about the singer from Royal Trux, meaning Jennifer Herrema, I guess. You’ve referred to her as Jennifer Trux. Have you toured with them? What are they like?
Mark: Actually, we’re about to go on tour with them. I haven’t seen them yet. They’re a straightedge band from DC, as far as I know. Not a lotta info on their record. They’re a couple, Jennifer and Neil, the former Pussy Galore guitar guy. I dig their single “Strawberry Soda.” (https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/qbz89x/heart-and-soul-of-band-called-pavement-165-v16n10)

In comparison, how often has Trux commented on Pavement:

JJ: I'll have to check it out on the site. So you've known Berman for a while,

then.

JH: Oh, yes. Longlonglonglong time.

JJ: How about do you know the kids of Pavement?

JH: (pause)

JJ: Like Malkmus or any of those cats.

JH: Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. forever and ever. (Interview With Jennifer Herrema, Fabula Magazine, June 2000

Stephen Malkmus: "Jennifer and the Ess-Dog" (Matador)

NMH: Whenever I hear Steve sing, I think, Oh, this dude's British. But this is
cool. It sounds like a cue from a movie. What I like best about his songs is
trying to figure out where all the little pieces come from. What is this?
Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah-nah.

TONY: Do you think this song is about you and Jennifer?

NMH: Probably not. His solo thing is great, cause he can sell as many records as
Pavement did, but he doesn't have to split the money. Doo-dah-doodah-doo. Fuck!

What is this?

TONY: When Pavement and Royal Trux were starting out on Drag City, people always
compared the two bands. Now you both have solo debuts.

NMH: Yeah, the timing is an interesting coincidence, though I don't think
there's ever been too many parallels. (Single File : Former Royal Trux king Neil Michael Hagerty burns rubber on some tunes, Time Out Issue 296, May 2001)

STEREOGUM: I’ve seen you play many times over the years in different bands, but the first time I saw Royal Trux play was in Oklahoma and you were opening for Pavement. I just remember that people in the audience were totally freaked out by it. My friends were like, “What the fuck is going on?”

JH: Especially being with Pavement. Steve liked to think we had so much in common but I think we frightened a lot of their audience, Basically we had Pavement’s dressing room to ourselves every night because they were so freaked out over what we might be doing. I was like “Yeah, just stay on the bus.” (https://www.stereogum.com/953531/progress-report-jennifer-herrema/franchises/progress-report)

whitehallunity, Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:20 (one month ago) Permalink

figured I'd break my post into two to avoid being so long, but basically Pavement created their sound and stayed with it til they quit, whereas Trux were continually re-shaping theirs as they moved along, which for me makes for a more varied and interesting body of work.

whitehallunity, Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:23 (one month ago) Permalink

IS THAT A QUESTION?

albvivertine, Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:32 (one month ago) Permalink

appeal denied

reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:38 (one month ago) Permalink

Neither band here interests me and my taste is pretty indie.

He said captain, I said wot (FlopsyDuck), Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:39 (one month ago) Permalink

I don't remember that being a RTX lyric, but I guess the chances are pretty high xpost

albvivertine, Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:41 (one month ago) Permalink

psyglr -vs- pvmnt would be harder for me cuz i loved pg but i don't really listen to them anymore and i will still play pavement CDs so they win there too i think. plus, i like everything that pavement did pretty much. every album. can't say that about everybody. started on a high note. ended on a high note. more people should do that.

scott seward, Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:43 (one month ago) Permalink

I don't remember that being a RTX lyric, but I guess the chances are pretty high

red light makes me think i'm going the wrong way, hombre

reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 19 May 2018 15:48 (one month ago) Permalink

the point is only rtx made accelerator

albvivertine, Saturday, 19 May 2018 16:05 (one month ago) Permalink

not taken in by all that funky narration

reggie (qualmsley), Saturday, 19 May 2018 16:14 (one month ago) Permalink

So weird to me that anyone finds these two bands all that similar. They do both feature singing and guitars, I guess.

Now I know my ABCs. Next time won't you scream at me? (Old Lunch), Saturday, 19 May 2018 16:32 (one month ago) Permalink

these bands are both pretty divisive. It would be fun to do a mega 90s indie poll (GBV, Pavement, Superchunck, etc).
I'd probably take Superchunk over any one.

campreverb, Saturday, 19 May 2018 16:39 (one month ago) Permalink

Both bands have my heart, but one has my undivided attention.

...is that a question?

edges, Saturday, 19 May 2018 16:52 (one month ago) Permalink

Pavement: better songs. tho Hagerty solo & Black Bananas both get play from me. my RTX time is like...I bought those records, I enjoyed them at the time, and that time is gone

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Saturday, 19 May 2018 17:49 (one month ago) Permalink

Probably a point prior to the 2nd s/t RT record and Slanted & Enchanted (so 1992 I guess) where this was might have been a contest, but basically everything RT did from that record on has been great and most of what Pavement has done since has been good to okay.

One bad call from barely losing to (Alex in SF), Saturday, 19 May 2018 19:21 (one month ago) Permalink

Jennifer doesn’t like pavement FYI

Right column Leftist (sunny successor), Saturday, 19 May 2018 22:05 (one month ago) Permalink

Royal trux is the right answer

Ross, Saturday, 19 May 2018 23:15 (one month ago) Permalink

Thinking Fellers is the right answer.

EZ Snappin, Sunday, 20 May 2018 00:55 (one month ago) Permalink

This is rtx so easy I feel kinda mean to Malkmus

albvivertine, Sunday, 20 May 2018 01:01 (one month ago) Permalink

Lol at the idea Joan Crawford's still listening to Pavement records

albvivertine, Sunday, 20 May 2018 01:03 (one month ago) Permalink

I had a Royal Trux album in the '90 - even liked it. I don't know what happened to it. Stoned noisy clatter as I recall. Cool but not particularly distinctive from a bunch of other bands doing stoned noisy clatter at the time. Pavement, well, probably one of the most influential bands of the decade, and one still ripped off by many bands that I like and listen to today. So them.

o. nate, Sunday, 20 May 2018 01:10 (one month ago) Permalink

I remember RT as a noisy band without hooks but it’s been a minute

calstars, Sunday, 20 May 2018 01:55 (one month ago) Permalink

previous two posts describe certain RTX efforts but i think of them as melodical and hooky as shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVlewx88Gr8

salt sugar fat, that's where it's at (rip van wanko), Sunday, 20 May 2018 02:05 (one month ago) Permalink

I remember RT as a noisy band without hooks but it’s been a minute

think of them as more groove than hook though I still get "junkie nurse"'s irritating refrain caught in my head from time to time

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:16 (one month ago) Permalink

not as irritating as juicy juice iirc

salt sugar fat, that's where it's at (rip van wanko), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:23 (one month ago) Permalink

Both of these bands are like classic rock for me. RTX was more difficult / harder to get into, but totally mysterious / badass, and they seemed to lack that suffocating self-awareness that Pavement possessed. Good match up, but I think Royal Trux could beat up Pavement if it came down to it. Love Transmaniacon, NMH's first solo/self-titled album, and a lot of Malk's solo (+ the Jicks) material.

braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:27 (one month ago) Permalink

As for vocal skills, Royal Trux crushes Pavement.

braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:30 (one month ago) Permalink

Don't really listen to Malkmus anymore, but I'm still 'discovering' Royal Trux gems.

braunld (Lowell N. Behold'n), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:32 (one month ago) Permalink

i honestly haven't listened to a whole lot of royal trux but i'll take "xi" by howling hex over anything pavement or malkmus did. hagerty is such an amazing guitar player.

you bet, nancy (map), Sunday, 20 May 2018 03:52 (one month ago) Permalink

weird thread

k3vin k., Sunday, 20 May 2018 04:05 (one month ago) Permalink

youre weird

you bet, nancy (map), Sunday, 20 May 2018 04:17 (one month ago) Permalink

fair

k3vin k., Sunday, 20 May 2018 04:39 (one month ago) Permalink

Trux Trux Trux

bedraggled vorticist (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 20 May 2018 05:15 (one month ago) Permalink

figured I'd break my post into two to avoid being so long, but basically Pavement created their sound and stayed with it til they quit, whereas Trux were continually re-shaping theirs as they moved along, which for me makes for a more varied and interesting body of work.

― whitehallunity, Saturday, May 19, 2018 11:23 AM(yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is u&k but I think merits even a little more elaboration. There's a familiar indie metatrope about projects which, initially mired in abrasive outsider/underground aesthetics--entirely listener-unfriendly--manage to pull themselves out of the muck & murk and embrace pop structure. This is a decent if generalized description of RTX's first four albums, but it could also apply to Ariel Pink, or Sonic Youth, or any number of classic indie bands: that's why it's a metatrope. Another metatrope is the band who plays with a specific genre and its well-established tropes but manage to throw in enough anomalous, quirky elements that no one could ever confuse their music for the real thing. Again, this is an okay summation of Trux circa Cats & Dogs/Thank You , where the residual scuzzy noise, spaced out vocals, and lo-fi sound marks the albums as distinctive, 'artistic' takes on Southern rock.

But usually bands and artists who go down this road, once they develop their singular signature modes of offkilter genre deconstruction, they tend to run with it and then run it into the ground. What they don't do--oftentimes because they don't have the real chops to do this--is actually work out a convincing 'straight' version of the genre they're fucking with, the way Trux manage, to an extent, with Sweet Sixteen and then wholly with Pound for Pound . Another thing they don't usually do is stumble upon an entirely distinct, secondary mode of quirky genre dislocation such as the batshit spectrum-analyzer plastique of Accelerator & the first side of Veterans . The higher impression one gets from all of this is not just of a bizarro version of rock but of a finely-calibrated tug of war between rock and bizarro elements that feel like the product of a lot of higher-level thinking about what rock is, and what it can mean.

bedraggled vorticist (Drugs A. Money), Sunday, 20 May 2018 08:14 (one month ago) Permalink

Chances of Pavement covering Money for Nothing seem v low, another point in RTX's favour

albvivertine, Monday, 28 May 2018 06:41 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Just listening to Accelerator and realising a) Reggie was pretty much quoting and b) RTX have some weirdass lyrics

albvivertine, Monday, 28 May 2018 06:53 (three weeks ago) Permalink

The context - the first song of their second to last show ever - is almost beside the point.

i feel just the opposite - to me the context is everything in that video. it's a good performance, but SM looks so over it and ready to be done. he looks like a very tired driver doing anything he/she can think of to stay awake so as not to crash.

alpine static, Tuesday, 29 May 2018 05:52 (three weeks ago) Permalink

All that is evident in the performance itself though imo.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 May 2018 06:21 (three weeks ago) Permalink

qualmsley I didn't know you were a quad cities person

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Tuesday, 29 May 2018 06:23 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Playing guitar swinging around and behind his head at first as a bored joke, turning both times into a graceful trance; the way he sings, quavering and moving from eye rolling ("i know the medical world could knock you out") and belting it (the last "boys are dying on these streets"). Sounds like they're all walking a high wire.

flappy bird, Tuesday, 29 May 2018 06:27 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

System, Thursday, 31 May 2018 00:01 (three weeks ago) Permalink

voted trux one of my alltime faves, both great tho (dont really vibe to later pavement tbh)

sprout god (lag∞n), Thursday, 31 May 2018 17:09 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Chances of Pavement covering Money for Nothing seem v low, another point in RTX's favour

― albvivertine, Monday, May 28, 2018 2:41 AM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I could totally see malk covering DS tbh

k3vin k., Thursday, 31 May 2018 17:21 (three weeks ago) Permalink

they wld do walk of life tho, with implied sports bloopers

sprout god (lag∞n), Thursday, 31 May 2018 17:25 (three weeks ago) Permalink

palace wld go for brothers in arms

sprout god (lag∞n), Thursday, 31 May 2018 17:25 (three weeks ago) Permalink

I've never heard either band, I almost bought a Royal Trux album once though.

Poisoned by Johan's pea soup. (Tom D.), Thursday, 31 May 2018 17:27 (three weeks ago) Permalink

theyre good u shd check them out

sprout god (lag∞n), Thursday, 31 May 2018 17:28 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Pavement 4 Life and all that, but voted RTX

Neil S, Thursday, 31 May 2018 17:51 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Love howling hex xi and all night fox records so much

Ross, Thursday, 31 May 2018 18:53 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Pavement will win as they should

nostormo, Thursday, 31 May 2018 21:25 (three weeks ago) Permalink

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

System, Friday, 1 June 2018 00:01 (two weeks ago) Permalink

lol

mookieproof, Friday, 1 June 2018 00:06 (two weeks ago) Permalink

check that expiration date man.

campreverb, Friday, 1 June 2018 00:33 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Ha ha -- Pave fans seem to be the silent majority (I didn't vote!)

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 1 June 2018 00:45 (two weeks ago) Permalink

duh

k3vin k., Friday, 1 June 2018 00:47 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Kinda surprised there are even 102 active people on ILX tbh

Paul Ponzi, Friday, 1 June 2018 00:53 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Yeah that's unexpectedly high participation.

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 1 June 2018 00:57 (two weeks ago) Permalink

margin's closer than it should be

alpine static, Friday, 1 June 2018 01:12 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Jennifer’s gonna be pissed!

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 1 June 2018 01:33 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Lol at this turnout

Οὖτις, Friday, 1 June 2018 01:56 (two weeks ago) Permalink

trux is like loser rock or something thought, right? so they shouldn't win probably. jocks -vs- burnouts.

scott seward, Friday, 1 June 2018 05:07 (two weeks ago) Permalink

id just like to point out for the record this poll had high participation, was fun and educational and not weird

you bet, nancy (map), Friday, 1 June 2018 05:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I hated it. Made me think of people I hate

He said captain, I said wot (FlopsyDuck), Friday, 1 June 2018 13:41 (two weeks ago) Permalink

you should spend less time hating people, probably

alpine static, Friday, 1 June 2018 17:54 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I'm jamming "Cats & Dogs" rn -- one for the underdog!

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 1 June 2018 18:08 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I maintain that Pvmnt is the best indie band in this timestream, while RTX is like something that crossed over from an alternate timestream - or something.

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Friday, 1 June 2018 18:12 (two weeks ago) Permalink

fair

sprout god (lag∞n), Friday, 1 June 2018 19:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink

id just like to point out for the record this poll had high participation, was fun and educational and not weird

― you bet, nancy (map), Friday, June 1, 2018 1:19 AM (fourteen hours ago)

fwiw I commented "weird thread" initially because the commentary was so one-sided in favor of RTX and I found that surprising

k3vin k., Friday, 1 June 2018 19:21 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i voted in this! I felt emboldened by the abortion referendum!

plax (ico), Friday, 1 June 2018 19:25 (two weeks ago) Permalink

pavement suck!

plax (ico), Friday, 1 June 2018 19:25 (two weeks ago) Permalink

it was fun, educational *and* weird imo

mookieproof, Friday, 1 June 2018 19:34 (two weeks ago) Permalink

their throats are filled with (h)(b)ugs

reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 3 June 2018 13:38 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I didn't know, until this thread, how zealous RTX partisans are, makes me wanna do a deep dig to see if I can see things their way

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 3 June 2018 14:22 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Hagerty is top 5 guitarists for me.

Οὖτις, Sunday, 3 June 2018 15:08 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Who are other 4(?)

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Sunday, 3 June 2018 15:21 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I'm gonna guess shakey's other four as Lou, Verlaine, Hazel and...maybe the gang of four guy, how'd I do

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 3 June 2018 17:06 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I'll see your 4 and raise you: Jason Pierce, Sly Stone, Grasshopper & Pops Staples

Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Sunday, 3 June 2018 17:34 (two weeks ago) Permalink

jimmy nolen?

you bet, nancy (map), Sunday, 3 June 2018 17:43 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Other four? Hazel, for sure. Neil Young. Michio Kurihara. Maybe one of the founding metal guys - page or iommi or blackmore - for fifth.

Οὖτις, Sunday, 3 June 2018 18:00 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Love a lot of the others mentioned but wouldnt say they are really virtuosos

Οὖτις, Sunday, 3 June 2018 18:02 (two weeks ago) Permalink

bless you for bringing blackmore in, good call

she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Sunday, 3 June 2018 18:21 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Pavement never shocked me. Good indie rock band but apart from a few songs I never loved anything they did, it was just like ok it's 1994 and yr a teenager hanging in central AK,you have to like Pavement. When I heard RTX it was like wtf is this it's doing many weird unexpected things oh and then putting out a 70's rock record.

albvivertine, Sunday, 3 June 2018 19:15 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Royal Trux obviously the best answer
Wtf

Slippage (Ross), Sunday, 10 June 2018 07:38 (one week ago) Permalink


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