"Record Collection Rock" - is there still a need for this? Does it still exist?

A term coined by Simon Reynolds to describe music with multiple influences, chiefly worn on its sleeve. This kind of thing was ubiquitous in the pre-internet era, probably coming to a climax in the mid-late 90s.

I guess it was a way for bands to show off their tastes and curate their sound around their influences. You might not have heard an album by the Byrds or Miles Davis or King Tubby (because CDs are expensive) but your favourite band had, and they were going to make a record with three-part harmonies, trumpet blasts and dubby bass echoes so you didn't have to.

I'm wondering if the era of the 'record collection' album is over now? Now that Spotify and YouTube have levelled the playing field, is there a need for acts to try, say, a token reggae song on their album, or to bang on about how they were really influenced by an obscure Magma record for one particular track?

Obviously the factor of influence has and will always be a thing, but is it fair to say that successful acts like to be seen as consistent innovators within their own sound; hitting upon an idea and sticking to it over the course of 12 songs rather than showing off through broad genre-hopping gestures?

Would Bruno Mars' last two albums count? Or are we looking for something where the influences are little more obscure and "hip".

To answer the thread question no it is v bad and because it's v bad I'm sure it still exists

lots of obscure acts are still not on spotify, so there is still some "credit" to be had within non-mainstream "rock" circles

bands whose tastes encompass a wide range of styles and who particularly like bigger name acts within those genres, i would say it's no longer as common for them to genre-hop within a single album, though on occasion, i see really, really small bands do this, probably because it's still a novel idea to them

What are examples of this? Zorn's Naked City or Mr. Bungle? Or more things like the Magnetic Fields' 69 Love Songs?

This isn't about the music; this is about critics pointing snarky fingers and saying "Ah, you just wrote that song so you can prove you've heard cult album X." (In the process of course proving that they've heard cult album X, too, and they heard it two years before the artist, so there.)

What are examples of this? Zorn's Naked City or Mr. Bungle? Or more things like the Magnetic Fields' 69 Love Songs?

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, January 15, 2018 5:14 PM (forty-eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I can't remember who Reynolds was talking about but I always thought it referred to people like Primal Scream.

Or Stereolab.

LCD Soundsystem?

it wasn't really about genre-hopping, it was more just about bands who constantly gave nods to their hip and sometimes obscure influences

“record collection rock” in my usage has a much more specific application than just "the group has precedents" or "they work within a tradition" or "sounds familiar". R-C-R is music where the listener's knowledge of prior rock music is integral to the full aesthetic appreciation of the record ("full" because the creator put the allusions there for you to spot with a smile). Prime exponents include Jesus & Mary Chain, Spacemen 3, Primal Scream, and--to a lesser degree but still part of the sensibility I think-- Stereolab; there's many many more. Oasis are the paradigm case: you get Beatles deja vu flashbacks from the melodies, the title “Wonderwall” is sampled from a George Harrison album and “What’s the Story Morning Glory”, slightly more esoteric, comes from “Tomorrow Time” on John and Beverley Martyn’s Stormbringer (someone I only realised the other day playing the recent reissue, and imagine my surprise!)

^ from Blissblog, 13 February 2006
http://blissout.blogspot.co.uk/2006/02/

Was about to say if Reynolds wasn't referring to Primal Scream he should have been - and he was!

https://image.ibb.co/cq5xhR/weeboab.jpg

Saint Etienne always struck me as this sort of thing.

the fall were maybe the pioneers in this field, they obviously borrowed from a whole host of cool but also not-so-cool influences, but then again they don't really fit because it never seemed like just a shallow exercise in showing off what hip records they were into

Nah, MES had no interest whatsoever in impressing anyone with his record collection.

^ agreed.

brian jonestown massacre otoh can only be described as RCR

There's Alternative TV, with Mark Perry on the cover of the first album surrounded by 'who'd have thought he liked them?' albums from his record collection. However the obvious precursor of this phenomenon is... Nurse With Wound!

thing is lots of times bands like Stereolab actually sort of hone in on certain immediate and pop elements of their antecedents to the point where they can actually be a more refined, enjoyable and modern version of what they are supposedly "ripping off"

even Oasis, like as much as people say they sound like the Beatles, they honestly sound NOTHING like the Beatles to me, like a song like Cigarettes & Alcohol or Supersonic I mean it's so much heavier and the sound of it puts me in a way different headspace than the Beatles (not a huge Oasis fan)

I call bullshit on this whole idea tbh

what? this definitely exists.

i think every musical artists have references and influences and maybe these bands call attention to it but again read the rest of my post i don't think that they are unique, like why does lcd soundsystem get called out for this and not kacey musgraves or as mentioned bruno mars?

Y'see, there's this guy from Glasgow, Boaby Gillespie, they call him...

but like Oasis is a perfect example to me, people say they "sound" like the Beatles and I don't think they actually sound anything like the Beatles, like the actual *sound* and sonic textures of their music is so different to me

being American in the age of Trump is a living nightmare but at least we still don't have to give a fuck about Primal Scream

Oasis aren't RCR, Simey got that wrong.

Oasis' influences were more Slade/T. Rex, "baggy" and maybe a little bit of the Sex Pistols.

or like I'm listening to Stereolab "Superelectric" and while I can def feel the kraut influences there's so much that's not contained in their influences to me

And Noddy Holder isn't exactly Albert Ayler. (xp)

Yeah, I primarily see this as a bullshit weasely way to criticise a band for having influences you don't like. I do think there is such a thing as originality, but the idea that anyone's favourite records aren't awash with influences is obviously nonsense. Reminds me of the shit the beta band got in the 90s for daring to be into hip hop and dub, and I though we had mercifully moved on from that.

remember when simey used to post on here

good ol' simey

Yeah, I primarily see this as a bullshit weasely way to criticise a band for having influences you don't like.

What, people don't like the names Bobby Gillespie drops?

also you can view this from a critic's pov or a musician's pov

cam you're referring to the critics but sr was looking at it from a musician's standpoint, which is a little more subtle or required the listener to actually absorb the influential bands, something nu ilx probably thinks is beneath them now because of it being too rockist

Christ knows I don't like Primal Scream in their cock rock mode, but it's certainly not because they are "Record Collection Rock"

Is it just a matter of whether they wear it on their sleeves? Think many of the suggestions seem to be just that.

Xp

like why does lcd soundsystem get called out for this and not kacey musgraves or as mentioned bruno mars?

LCD blur that line between homage/cover/plagiarism a bit more

Wear it on their sleeves like they were the only people in the world to have sleeves.

Reynolds recently used this term to describe weird 90s rock bands, like Royal Trux and TFUL282 (though he likes those two)

i think the key thing here is that it's almost less about what the music "actually sounds like" and much more about what the music is "supposed to sound like" -- RCR, in my opinion, has as much to do with the record collection of the listener (actually this is parmount imo) as it does the artist. it's less straight up aping an artist, or even genre hopping, and much more about constructing a constellation of small, sometimes subtle signifiers. and the message, usually not so hard to decode, is: you are cool, your records are cool, we are cool too, you will like this music the first time you hear it and it will not challenge you, and you are cool.

Wear it on their sleeves like they were the only people in the world to have sleeves.

― Whiney Houston (Tom D.), Monday, January 15, 2018 1:17 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also this. it's not about having influences. it's a specific way of curating your "influences" and then presenting them in such a way that knowing who those influences are actually "enhances" (or becomes necessary as a precondition to) your enjoyment of the music

If I recall, the Jesus Jones Liquidizer insert had a long list of props, namechecking every hip influence of 1989; James Brown, Sonic Youth, etc.

xp to cam

well there's that and also intent

imo a blatant genre hop like what bruno mars does is not trying to hone in on listeners' music knowledge, it is instead trying to set up a stereotypical image/sound of a genre that can be easily digested by as many people as possible

endless boogie is also this

p sure Royal Trux probably sold their records to cop junk

I can see this is gonna be basically moving the goalposts in response to any argument

No, I think budo jeru has nailed it. I'm just having some fun with Boaby, who made an ass of himself by seeming to want some kind of award for having exactly the same record collection and musical tastes as every other ageing indie kid from Glasgow - ending up as a figure of fun on internet forums the length and breadth of the land, in the process.

yeah i think everyone is kinda working off different ideas in this thread ... for me, "record collection rock" is maybe something like Ryley Walker (who I like a lot) — his first two records were almost wholly concerned (in sound and visual aesthetic) with a certain strain of Britfolk singer-songwriters. but if done right, it goes beyond being derivative and into its own thing.

And speaking of 1989ers, Neneh Cherry's Cherry Thing totally depends on knowing the original, highly coxal songs she covers, but I still love that record to death.

I do think there is such a thing as originality, but the idea that anyone's favourite records aren't awash with influences is obviously nonsense. Reminds me of the shit the beta band got in the 90s for daring to be into hip hop and dub, and I though we had mercifully moved on from that.

― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Monday, January 15, 2018 1:08 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think this is really missing the point, at least as how i see it. for me RCR is derogatory in a way, sure, in the same way as people sometimes used to (maybe still do) refer to things like the war on drugs as "dad rock." but i think this music thrived, and continues to endure, precisely because of a listenership sold on the notion of "authentic" music as opposed to whatever else. it's here that the canon-forming, or positioning oneself within a tradition of rarefied and far-out sounds, becomes the thing.

i use this label primary to criticize what i consider to be lazy music that somehow gets a pass because it's "supposed" to be good, because how could it not if they like coltrane and sun ra and the monkees' psychedelic period and and and

^^If that's the case, I'd be interested in seeing more specific criticisms of artists. Who are the bands with the Coltrane, Sun Ra, and Monkees psychedelic period albums? I don't remember bands with one token or non-token reggae song, one song where they claimed an obscure reference like Magma, or a bunch of references to such a variety of things like the Byrds/Miles Davis/King Tubby formula. Stereolab maybe. They were really good at it, though! Not so sure about Saint Etienne and think they might be considered just because they are more vocal as fans of things. If Royal Trux and TFUL 282 are record collection rock, I'm wondering what those records are.

These guys? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsylvania_Phoenix

(To be fair, I had no idea they were known as 'Transsylvania Phoenix' outside of Romania.)

Cherry pick from Phoenix and Zoot Woman's first albums, throw the zoot woman remix of "too young" on the end, that would be one fantastic split mini lp

I've no idea why we're talking about Phoenix and Zoot Woman in a thread about "Record Collection Rock", but praise be to them.

ZW remix of Too Young is the best

The Game's whole career

Big K.R.I.T.'s, too.

What about manuscript collection classical

why are all those songs on the burger/ink album named after roxy music songs?

charles ives actually the king of record collection rock.

"However, this symphony is composed in the late-Romantic European tradition, and is believed to contain many paraphrases from famous European pieces such as Tchaikovsky's Pathétique and Schubert's Unfinished symphonies and especially Dvořák's New World Symphony."

busoni has been called 'the most learned composer who has ever lived'
brahms too had read just about everything you could get in the late 19c including early music
you get into postwar postmodernists and then we can really talk about manuscript collection classical

Just passing by to drop off a Stereogum tweet:

Hear "Severed," the first single from a new @TheDecemberists album inspired by @NewOrder and Roxy Music http://gum.to/U2Ycgx

charles ives actually the king of record collection rock.

it really all starts with Ives

Fat White Family band and all their equally useless offshoots like the Moonlandingz strike me as the most obvious contemporary iteration of this trend. The latter group's borderline plagiarism of '90s hipster reference points (Suicide, krautrock, Velvet Underground) is so blatant it's almost admirable, were they not so insultingly mediocre. Add a druggy air and other edgelord trappings and you've got RCR par execrence.

counterpoint: they're great fun and I like them and fuck off

(Moonlandingz, that is - I don't care about FWF)

I mean, the Moonlandingz are an extremely minor concern and a literal spin-off band from an album by a couple of synth weirdos called The Eccentronic Research Council. It's all a fun little game and really it isn't aiming at anything higher than 'tuneful krautpop fuckaround'. I don't know whether any of the members have personally pissed in your cornflakes but singling them out here on this idiot thread is just ridiculous. They're just playing stuff they like

They got second best album of the year on a certain music website, just bursting that hype bubble.

good on you! because it's important where albums place on other people's lists

They got second place because Doran is a fan and he clearly got a couple of other Quietus types to like it too. Their lists have always been extremely particular to his taste. At least they picked the right #1 eh

I'm a tQ contributor and have a lot of respect for those fine gents, but their love of FWFB et al baffles me. Admittedly, Moonlandingz nowhere as bad as FWFB.

It’s a sad day when we can’t even shit on some unknown indie band without some poor soul getting a crick in their brass neck

imo different groups coming to different consensus picks is healthy and helps break the possibility of all RCR bands of the future sounding the same, at least

Hehe, tbf I think LCD Soundsystem are probably the closest to a RCR band it's possible to get these days. As Dog Latin said above, they're the post post-modern version of RCR, self-consciously making fun of the concept in Losing My Edge. But while that was funny once upon a time, it's become their default mode. They're having their cake and eating it on their latest album, combining their pastiche with this jaded air. At least Bobbie Gillespie's name dropping came from a place of genuine enthusiasm.

speaking of bobby gillespie i was playing my 7-inch copy of "upside down" last night and i was thinking it would be cool to own every color variation. that was my record collection rock moment. i only own the yellow cover version. i did not play "vegetable man" though. in honor of this thread.

for the record, i don't understand the point of Fat White Family at all.

my wife used to like a Fat White Family song (presumably she still does although I haven't heard her play it for ages) but she downloaded the album and didn't think much of it. I thought the song she liked was alright though.

It was easier for eg JAMC in the mid 80s, bcs the stuff they were "inspired by" wasn't readily available. Vegetable Man, Subway Sect, Lee Hazlewood, Dr Mix and the Remix - this was some obscure shit at the time. The journos picked up on the Velvets and Ramones thing, but little else.

They seemed kind of naff to me at the time tbh, not musically, just their shtick - the leather jackets, drainpipe jeans, Chelsea boots, Velvets '66 look with the grown out Goth hairstyles and the songs all called Candy this, Honey that, Sugar the other. Everybody had done the Velvets by that stage plus every group in Glasgow - from the ones who were trying to sound like Al Green downwards (or upwards) - had songs with Candy or Honey in the title, it was like, "What another one! Give us a break!" It was a bit, "So where are they from? East Kilbride? Oh that explains it."

pwei had a song taking the piss out that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI_i_GJK46g

busoni has been called 'the most learned composer who has ever lived'
brahms too had read just about everything you could get in the late 19c including early music
you get into postwar postmodernists and then we can really talk about manuscript collection classical

Yeah I was gonna say Luciano Berio to thread.

concept: RCR, but the only records in your collection are by PWEI

surely one modern band who have picked up the baton : the horrors.

mgmt as well

https://static.stereogum.com/uploads/2018/01/YLT-Theres-a-Riot-Going-On-art-1516225003-640x640.jpg

I guess I don't like the idea - the og Reynolds one - bc it seems to imply that a sort of heroic, isolated genius narrative is somehow a more authentic way of making music, which is ... rockist?

I think there's a difference between synthesis and facsimile but tbh it's a fuzzy line

My Husband's Stupid Record Collection Rock Band

i honestly see Sonic Youth as part of this continuum

i wrote this 19 years ago in the village voice newspaper:

"Even though the post-music crowd is already, as I speak, mining other rich veins of lost treasure (Serge Gainsbourg, Lee Hazelwood, Italian vampire movie soundtracks, rare jug band 78s, King Diamond picture discs), Krautrock is still king for those who will not allow themselves to dance. To simplify matters further, I’m just going to blame Thurston Moore."

"In the almost-30-year career of Sonic Youth, if Thurston only told two people a week to buy a Cluster or Achim Reichel LP, I figure that constitutes about half the U.S. sales of Krautrock to date. And if only half of those people formed bands, that would at least explain why Blur threw away their Ian Whitcomb albums and started experimenting with “sound.”

It occurs to me that the entire post-Blur career of Damon Albarn is the most obvious modern example of this.

he even made a record collection band

Do The Cramps figure into this? Avid record collectors who repurposed their love of vintage rock and roll for their own ends.

Also, I don't think most here are much interested in neo-rockabilly/roots rock etc., but guys like Deke Dickerson are always filling their albums with obscure cover tunes by Eddie Noack, or Grandpa Jones, or Lee Dresser and the Krazy Kats. Don't know if this qualifies as RCR exactly, but it's a fun rabbithole of research for me.

Deke Dickerson veers into Guitar Collector rock, with the whole Moserite cult of twang.

The Cramps were defiantly collectors, but I feel like that sort of revivalist attitude is the opposite instinct - here's something discarded that we've scavenged and will make you love. Yacht rock would be a recent manifestation of the same. Record collection rock is more "we are providing you will only the best influences, are you are smart enough to recognize them as the best influences?"

one of my favorite groups of all time could have been called *Ivo's Record Collection*. and i thank him all the time for turning me on to so much cool stuff in the 80s!

nrbq get hepcat points for covering eddie cochran and sun ra on their first album in 1969. terry adams came in the store and gave me a copy of the new nrbq EP where they cover "happy talk" from south pacific and roy orbison's "only the lonely". it's great.

Yeah, Terry also covers Patience and Prudence. He's all about this.

I'm a bit confused by the Damon Albarn thing really, unless I've kind of misunderstood your interpretation of it Matt DC. if anything I'd have said Blur, with their copying of tropes from the Kinks, Syd Barrett, Pavement, Wire etc is far more RCR than Good The Bad And The Queen or Gorillaz?

this video made me think of this thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EG2kcIz2NQ8

(lot's of good recommendations btw)

does Ty Segall constitute RCR?

Re 'MOJO reading lads' Mojo had the first interview before the album came out and the band did a playlist of influences for 'em (Dion, Nino Rota, David Axelrod, Gainsbourg..) so anyone reading Mojo knew before anyone else that the record wasn't a rock album. It's more for 30 and 40-something types Mojo. Lads are more 'LadBible' these days.

― piscesx, Friday, 11 May 2018 15:01 (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Was thinking the exact same thing when I read that post.