(quote in thread title from its 'best new track'-bestowing p4k review)
― dyl, Friday, 12 January 2018 02:00 (one week ago) Permalink
it's ok but i'm convinced there's some recent scandipop? song that's near identical but i can't place it at the moment
― ufo, Friday, 12 January 2018 02:18 (one week ago) Permalink
he's been a publicist's dream irrespective of music (I learned about this single drop today from one of my queer students).
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 12 January 2018 02:50 (one week ago) Permalink
― ufo, Thursday, January 11, 2018 9:18 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
probably because there are about 100
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Friday, 12 January 2018 04:13 (one week ago) Permalink
I mean it's fine and all
Never heard of this guy before today, then all of a sudden i see he's got a p4k bnm, a spot on SNL and an ILX thread. It's a decent song.
― josh az (2011nostalgia), Friday, 12 January 2018 04:16 (one week ago) Permalink
It's a step up from his old stuff.
― self-clowning oven (Murgatroid), Friday, 12 January 2018 04:18 (one week ago) Permalink
Tove Lo's "Cool Girl".
― LeRooLeRoo, Friday, 12 January 2018 04:24 (one week ago) Permalink
the only song i'd heard of his that wasn't in-one-ear-out-the-other for me was "youth", which i thought was okay sometimes and completely execrable at others. so yes it's a step up.
― dyl, Friday, 12 January 2018 04:39 (one week ago) Permalink
yeah i'm passing that up to it just being extremely on-trend to the point of feeling anonymous. i like it more than "cool girl" but it's not anything special
― ufo, Friday, 12 January 2018 04:41 (one week ago) Permalink
Yeah alright but how did the phrase “overpraised twink mediocrity” make it past the workshopping phase here
― You're all losing so many points on your progress bars (Champiness), Friday, 12 January 2018 10:57 (one week ago) Permalink
Troy is not spelt with an 'e', do keep up.
― Shitpost in Opposition (King Boy Pato), Friday, 12 January 2018 12:02 (one week ago) Permalink
― #TeamHailing (imago), Friday, 12 January 2018 12:05 (one week ago) Permalink
tro-ye to spell
― Shitpost in Opposition (King Boy Pato), Friday, 12 January 2018 12:06 (one week ago) Permalink
Meh Meh Meh
― iCloudius (cryptosicko), Friday, 12 January 2018 15:18 (one week ago) Permalink
(strobing effects aside, though, the video is laudable for its unapologetic queerness)
― iCloudius (cryptosicko), Friday, 12 January 2018 15:19 (one week ago) Permalink
i like this song... the video is really funny tho. he looks like 19 year old nick carter had gotten cryogenically unfrozen 5 mins before the video shoot and just started hitting michael jackson poses out of muscle memory
― J0rdan S., Friday, 12 January 2018 17:21 (one week ago) Permalink
His resemblance to Nick Carter (or just any random 90s boy band blonde in general) is a big part of what makes the video so interesting, for the sole reason that I am now imagining the impact that it would have had if any of the 80s or 90s boy band thinks had been this conscious of, and pandering to, their gay audience back then. Impossible to imagine then, the praise that Sivan is receiving now (I just happened to read about it on NPR before I saw that Pitchfork was all over it as well) is a sign of...something.
All of that said, I still hope he has some stronger material in him.
― iCloudius (cryptosicko), Friday, 12 January 2018 18:36 (one week ago) Permalink
this could have been great if the bridge wasn't so nothingy
― ufo, Saturday, 13 January 2018 11:53 (one week ago) Permalink
Troye Sivan is such an interesting character! I first became aware of his existence back in 2010 because my guitarist was giggling about this video that a "boy soprano" made where the lyrics went:
Yesterday I heard the newsThat 4 million Russian children are homelessThey've been abandoned by the people they trustNow their cold and lonely lives are hopeless
Children of the worldAre dyingPeople say they careThey're lyingIf this life was theirsThey'd be cryingIs it really fairWe're not trying?
And so of course I followed him on Twitter. Me and my guitarist sang "For Them" with new lyrics all the time and giggled. "Shrimp of the world / are FRYING / people say they care / they're DINING" lol
At a certain point Troye noticed I'd followed him and DM'd me enthusiastically about it and that was nice. Over the next four years tho his Twitter account kind of.. educated me, I guess? about "teenagers coming up in the 2010s". He seemed so embarrassingly thirsty, tweeting at Cody Simpson and Justin Bieber and whatever. He had a part in a Wolverine movie and some other strange South African-tax rebate John Cleese movie. He posted the occasional song and I listened and thought it was unambitious.
But yeah then he became Youtube-famous. He did that thing where he put out an album and unfollows everybody on Twitter and refollows people to match his brand (I didn't make the cut). He came out of the closet and then was on Ellen. He probably faked some nudes leaking in a thirsty con game. I kind of ruefully read some article a couple years ago in the New York Times (I think) talking about how he did a gig at Le Poisson Rouge that had an audience entirely of teenage girls and John Norris. And then I started hearing him at the gym, and he's bffs with Hari Nef, and now he's got Best New Track on Pitchfork.
So is it really “overpraised twink mediocrity”?
Because I think it's more like he is exactly the ne plus ultra of twink mediocrity, and it's not really his fault, he's just the exact product of the systems that I've spent the last week typing about re: Call Me By Your Name etc., this is the sanitized face of gay male beauty, etc. The song is fine but it doesn't matter
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 13 January 2018 16:33 (one week ago) Permalink
I feel like 2018 is going to be the year of "overpraised twink mediocrity."
― iCloudius (cryptosicko), Saturday, 13 January 2018 17:28 (one week ago) Permalink
It's definitely been the year that I've spent two hours a day typing about it
I think what I’ve been struggling with (for years) is, really, the intersection between “good music” and “a sexy image”. I have never really “got” the appeal of boybands (or in many cases, girlbands) because I watch porn when I want to look at hot bodies and penetration, and I listen to music when I want to be aurally stimulated. Unless there’s a part of the video where Niall literally tops Louis then what is the point of listening to this band, watching their video? Never really understood it.
It’s different obviously with any scenario involving POC because it feels as if the “sexy image” is itself an act of decolonizing typically white-focused notions of sexiness and feels necessary
Or that Peaches video “Rub” which is perfect in every way
But with Troye Sivan— “my youth, my youth, my youth is yours”— I just can’t get past the fact that there is NO thesis here, except to hold the gaze of women and gay men, and to re-affirm that young white male bodies carry such currency that they can and will rule the world of music (Troye’s new track) cinema (Call Me By Your Name— Vogue has even called Timothée Chalemet “this season’s It girl”) and so on
The feeling I have isn’t quite bitterness (though sure I’m bitter) but also more like.. concerned. I didn’t like Ryan McGinley the first time around, and I guess I thought that the vapidity of Tumblr-stardom (I have become a successful artist because I take basic photos of my attractive friends) wouldn’t prevail as weirdly as it seems to be prevailing
And there’s a difference, now, too. Gay white men in North American are in a position now where they are no longer oppressed, and yet we’re still giving them the keys to our safety deposit boxes as if they are oppressed.
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 13 January 2018 17:32 (one week ago) Permalink
I'm not sure if I agree with "no longer oppressed." At the very least, how we define "oppression" needs some unpacking. Certainly, gay white men of a certain age, class, etc are privileged in a way that other queer people will never experience.
I'm currently in the middle of my PhD dissertation on queer characters in Young Adult Fiction, and wouldn't you know it, said characters tend to be overwhelmingly gay white male twinks (with some notable exceptions: Brian Francis' Fruit features an overweight protagonist who is, tellingly, less well adjusted than your typical GWM character; Charles Rice-Gonzales' Chulito is about a Latin American teen in the South Bronx that, thinking back on it, now feels like a bit of a template for Moonlight). But yeah, we are definitely reaching a point where "overpraised twink mediocrity" has the advantage of both being what many gay men want to consume and what many hetero critics feel comfortable praising. Not to keep bringing this back to CMBYN, but the fact that I found it so ordinary really is what surprised me the most about it. It's hard to call Moonlight underrated in comparison, because it was last year's BP winner and all, but the fawning over it from gay circles was nothing compared to what CMBYN, and Timothée Chalamet ("this seasons IT girl," ugh), are receiving.
To bring this thread back to its ostensible subject, it will be interesting to see how Sivan's career plays out during 2018. Like, is this really something that the music press is going to be all over, or is he benefitting from being the first thing to happen in music in 2018 (besides a crap Timberlake single)?
― iCloudius (cryptosicko), Saturday, 13 January 2018 18:06 (one week ago) Permalink
He's playing the L.A. game so he'll do the usual cycle of festival appearances, I think.
"Are no longer oppressed" is simplifying it, yes. What is interesting to me is hearing that North American teenagers are now identifying so easily with non-straight labels that the GSAs that we were fighting for in Catholic schools eight years ago are now no longer relevant. But: the historical oppression of white gay men seems to be, now, a useful tool for privileged white gay men to create drama or systems of injustice where there are none, idk, it's complicated obv and I'm just typing, something something Sam Smith please stop talking like that
"overpraised twink mediocrity" has the advantage of both being what many gay men want to consume and what many hetero critics feel comfortable praising
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 13 January 2018 18:55 (one week ago) Permalink
fgti your posts in the call me by your name thread (i don't post in ile but read it sometimes) are basically what encouraged me to use the phrase in this thread title. like obviously i was being jokey but only somewhat.
i didn't realize sivan had such a history! that "for them" song is hilarious. i figured he had just gotten famous via tumblr-tweens liking his face enough to make his vlogs popular or something, had no idea he was that intentional about it/thirsty for it. (i don't know what he actually posted on youtube, for all i know he might have gotten famous for surprise egg videos altho i presume it had something to do with singing.)
yes we are definitely at a point where media gatekeepers do seem to really want to see more out-of-the-closet queer people (or representations of queer people) in the spotlight, but where the range of queer people that they are actually comfortable pushing in front of the curtain is still woefully narrow. and we end up with this bizarre climate of excitement around art that is, at least in my view, not quite there? (tangential, but i liked-not-loved call me by your name.)
the p4k review praising this song upthread ends with "'I’m just trying to show people that you can be queer, live your life, and be happy,' Sivan told Teen Vogue last year. Mission accomplished." and i struggle to understand what it is about this song that is supposedly accomplishing this mission. it's like we're meant to feel inspired by his mere existence and the fact that his gayness hasn't prevented him from getting a not-bad song released, pushed to radio, and prominently hyped via spotify billboards. like, is that all? some mission.
― dyl, Saturday, 13 January 2018 21:19 (one week ago) Permalink
oh and to be clear, i think it's bad at all that songs by queer artists can be thematically run-of-the-mill and artistically mediocre and still generate palpable excitement -- it's what straight artists do all the time. in fact, it would truly be lovely if queer artists could routinely make mediocre art and not experience their queerness as a barrier to favorable reception. but so far the scenario seems to be, well, your queerness isn't a barrier and might even be an asset, but only if you tick every single one of these other boxes that have basically been advantages from the dawn of mass media onward.
― dyl, Saturday, 13 January 2018 21:41 (one week ago) Permalink
* don't think it's bad at all lol
― dyl, Saturday, 13 January 2018 21:58 (one week ago) Permalink
OTM, yeah. This all has opened up so many cans of worms for me (and so much unbridled vitriol) that the lesson I learned this week is that I should really channel this anger into fuel for my own work I guess
― flamboyant goon tie included, Saturday, 13 January 2018 22:55 (one week ago) Permalink
i would pay hella USD's for your angry political music
― Men's Scarehouse - "You're gonna like the way you're shook." (m bison), Saturday, 13 January 2018 22:56 (one week ago) Permalink
ha lol I feel like my music is way angrier than people think but anyway thanks
[redacted addendum about how this is the future that Grizzle Bear's "Two Weeks" warned us about: "always / sometimes / easy / time"]
― flamboyant goon tie included, Sunday, 14 January 2018 01:11 (one week ago) Permalink
i had no idea about any of this context but i was pleasantly surprised when i heard this song, felt like something more substantial than everything else i discovered trawling through the generic tropi-pop youtube algorithm playlists
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 15 January 2018 00:22 (six days ago) Permalink
i'll cop to having eventually quite enjoyed Sivan's first album, Blue Neighbourhoods.
in a similar way to the Years & Years album, it initially struck me as middle of the road pop and slowly grew on me until it wormed its way into my head. his voice suits the slick vaguely melancholy pop brooding.
there's also an overwrought ballad that's apparently about grappling with one's queerness in the context of a religious family/Jewish day school etc.?
anyway, 'My My My' is dancier and more upbeat and more anonymous but far more on-trend and more likely to actually be successful. it's a relatively good pop song, and it will probably get more attention than it otherwise would for the video, but i'm not sure if it's really worth handwringing over a la Call Me By Your Name.
― no longer in MTL (Alex in Montreal), Monday, 15 January 2018 02:04 (six days ago) Permalink
like, the white mediocrity of Call Me By Your Name is notable because it's presented as deep, meaningful art with something to say.
'My My My' seems to aspire to be a run of the mill or better than average pop song, you know? it doesn't have a thesis about queerness, but...i'm perfectly fine with Fifth Harmony songs not having a thesis either.
this isn't going to get the sort of critical acclaim that Frank Ocean does, and unless he's getting a much bigger push than I'd expect, he's pretty much going to be a Charli xcx-level pop singer who occasionally hits the pop charts, but mostly is popular on the internet, no? one BNM for a single feels kind of premature as a basis for predicting that the music press is going to be all over him
― no longer in MTL (Alex in Montreal), Monday, 15 January 2018 02:12 (six days ago) Permalink
cf. as a point of comparison Hayley Kiyoko's 'Curious', which similarly is a pretty traditional pop song whose only really notable difference is that the singer is a lesbian.
― no longer in MTL (Alex in Montreal), Monday, 15 January 2018 02:26 (six days ago) Permalink
would I prefer for MNEK to finally blow up into a massive pop star in 2018? absolutely.do I prefer these to 2010's wave of vague inspirational songs dedicated to gay teens by presumptively straight pop stars? also, yes.do I prefer them to 2013's Macklemore raps about marriage equality song? also, yes.
― no longer in MTL (Alex in Montreal), Monday, 15 January 2018 02:31 (six days ago) Permalink
We are definitely in a better place with this than we were with the Great Gay Pander-Offs of 2010 and 2013, yes.
― iCloudius (cryptosicko), Monday, 15 January 2018 02:39 (six days ago) Permalink
also, halsey and kehlani are both queer too, right? i feel like in general we've seen a quiet rise of a bunch of out queer pop singers in the past few years. i'm sure there are a few more i'm forgetting.
― no longer in MTL (Alex in Montreal), Monday, 15 January 2018 02:45 (six days ago) Permalink
i was wondering if the hayley kiyoko song would be brought up! that is another song that, aside from the playful use of the title word, i would also call "not quite there". but alas it too is getting pushed to radio and altho i haven't read it i saw someone post a billboard thinkpiece about how she and troye are 'boldly' normalizing queer affection in the mainstream or something
i would agree that what we are getting now is indeed preferable to the aforementioned phases. also that phase where that awful underwear-model-turned-country-singer steve grand was generating huffpo hype thru his mere ability to release a completely bland song/video centered on same-sex desire (which incidentally was heavy on the thinly-coded white-worship). (at least hopefully that's over now -- wouldn't be surprised if gay media were still talking about him tho lol.)
it's true that neither sivan nor kiyoko is going to receive the level of acclaim of e.g. frank ocean (whose good graces with music media predated his coming out but still). and i actually like quite a few things about this song! it is kinda catchy and the interplay between the production and his vocal lines at the beginning of the second verse is fun and hits the spot. but idk i just get disappointed when i see media takes, in whatever volume, that suggest that some social barrier is finally being destroyed by otherwise unchallenging art's existence.
― dyl, Monday, 15 January 2018 03:07 (six days ago) Permalink
i believe they both are xp, and halsey's latest hit does make it pretty clear. it's my favorite of the few songs i've heard by her, altho it seems a number of ppl here aren't feeling it based on posts in other threads
― dyl, Monday, 15 January 2018 03:10 (six days ago) Permalink
Didn't know about Halsey (not a fan) or Kehlani (don't know enough to have an opinion). I just wish Shura would become a beneficiary of all this.
― iCloudius (cryptosicko), Monday, 15 January 2018 03:12 (six days ago) Permalink
yeah both kehlani & halsey have released songs which are directly queer in their lyrics recentlyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3hjpNuvapQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wVB6pfWwnE
― ufo, Monday, 15 January 2018 03:15 (six days ago) Permalink
i liked that brief period when the internet's "girl" was on r&b and adult r&b radio (not very high up on the playlists but still)
― dyl, Monday, 15 January 2018 03:19 (six days ago) Permalink
I don't mean to be hyperbolic or anything but even just the mention of Frank Ocean in this thread makes me feel so soothed and relaxed like "it's OK the world is full of beautiful things, you don't need to type anything negative this evening"
― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 15 January 2018 04:28 (six days ago) Permalink
but idk i just get disappointed when i see media takes, in whatever volume, that suggest that some social barrier is finally being destroyed by otherwise unchallenging art's existence.
i mean, that article sounds tedious and wrong-headed. and yeah, media takes that overstate the impact of this stuff are probably annoying, but breathless overstated coverage of pop music is kind of...de rigeur.
the Kiyoko song is definitely all the way 'there' for me, though. I haven't paid any attention to her since we covered Girls Like Girls over at Singles Jukebox in 2015, which was definitely not quite there, and which made me write her off, but 'Curious' works for me. the beat is post-MustardWave but less minimalist, and the chorus is really smart about building momentum, from that initial touchyatouchyatouchyatouchya to the double-time patter of lines running together 'Did you takehimtothepierinSantaMonica' etc. and then the cleanly punctuated 'I'm just curious / Is it serious?'.
again, it's a completely typical pop song narrative, just written from a lesbian perspective, and...that's all it needs to be? i have plenty of other queer music that's actively political or angry or boundary pushing or experimental. there's nothing wrong with also having a Tinashe-style bop about Kiyoko's feelings when her ex-girlfriend makes out with some dude at a party.
― no longer in MTL (Alex in Montreal), Monday, 15 January 2018 04:30 (six days ago) Permalink
(anyway, sorry for taking us so off-topic)
― no longer in MTL (Alex in Montreal), Monday, 15 January 2018 04:31 (six days ago) Permalink
Years & Years use pop as a trojan horse for songs that capture the mix of shame, tentative fear and consuming lust that's unique to the experience of non-hetero early sexuality, the questioning of who you are and why you feel like that and recognising that it can be enjoyable as much as it can be terrifying. I also think they just write better songs and Olly Alexander is a proper popstar.
on the other hand this came on YouTube autoplay last night while I was tidying up and it just sounded like mediocre pop music from an uncharismatic singer? I played an earlier EP back when I first heard about him and it was just aural candy floss. The video makes it a bit more interesting but at the same time, I've met this guy/seen this aesthetic on Instagram/not replied to on Grindr, this exact archetype of gay man so many times.
Kehlani being on record about "Distraction" being about a woman, then having the video featuring her cavorting with a man, is exactly the kind of intersectional privilege issue that needs unpacked around discussion of queer oppression in pop spheres.
― boxedjoy, Monday, 15 January 2018 11:15 (six days ago) Permalink
for the sole reason that I am now imagining the impact that it would have had if any of the 80s or 90s boy band thinks had been this conscious of, and pandering to, their gay audience back then
in the UK we had Take That, who as far as I understand it only really had one hit single in America, the serious and chaste ballad "Back For Good", which to me has always felt like an outlier in their early narrative. They had a run of hits in the early 90s and were huge to the point that Robbie Williams leaving the group and the band splitting up were both national news stories and there was even a helpline set up. They reformed after about fifteen years apart and have occupied a safe space in pop since, sounding like Scissor Sisters and Coldplay at once.
so what was really interesting about Take That is that they were basically about taking a gay man's view of sexuality - specifically, manager Nigel Martin-Smith - and selling that persepctive to a female audience. Their 1991 debut single "Do What You Like" came with a video which is three minutes of four attractive guys (and Gary Barlow, who can sing but clearly recruited for his voice unlike the others), rolling about in leather and rubbing jelly on each other's shirtless bodies
the single was a flop and even the band treat it as a punchline now. But move forward a few years to something like their number one single "Pray" which recasts "Wicked Game" with five men on a beach.
there's still a shameless fetishism to these men and their bodies and the sexuality of them. The song is better, the video is less cheap, but the intent is still there.
in the UK now this model still lives on. Pop stars and soap actors still do shirtless photoshoots for both gay mags and women's weeklies (at least, the ones that still survive). It's a world away from the 80s model of new romanticism, where Spandeau Ballet and Duran Duran were just as desireable but in a fully-clothed, fashion-and-style, repressed way.
― boxedjoy, Monday, 15 January 2018 11:31 (six days ago) Permalink
Googling 'Simon Le Bon shirt off' will get you LOTS of examples of him posing topless for 1980s pop mags.
― Akdov Telmig (Ward Fowler), Monday, 15 January 2018 12:00 (six days ago) Permalink
Good discussion, and, yeah, I'd wondered how Years & Years fit; to my ears they do it right.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 15 January 2018 13:18 (six days ago) Permalink
probably worth noting that halsey's newest single is a terrible duet with her gross boyfriend g-eazy called "him and i"
― maura, Monday, 15 January 2018 14:39 (six days ago) Permalink
they couldn't even get the grammar right!
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 15 January 2018 14:41 (six days ago) Permalink
― maura, Monday, 15 January 2018 14:42 (six days ago) Permalink
who did it better: halsey or zooey
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 15 January 2018 14:56 (six days ago) Permalink
Troye will be on SNL!
― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 15 January 2018 15:14 (six days ago) Permalink
i guess i read troye less as like... part of the "sanitized white gay into the mainstream" conspiracy and more as part of the "let's figure out how to upstream youtubers into mainstream pop culture" conspiracy. there's some crossover b/w those two things (connor franta etc) but frankly i'm more concerned about the second one personally & as such my interest in the "my my my" video is just noting what it might look like when a vlogger really tries to assert himself as society's very traditional understanding of a pop star. i find the video pretty clumsy and hard to watch, he's trying to sell it so hard but needs more practice. but i'm sure for the intended audience it works.
the other thing is that for all the praise about queer representation yada yada whatever i find it funny that troye and the guys in this video (who fwiw are styled acutely well) don't ever touch each other. the men kind of dance in place in the shadows, hovering around troye but never interacting with him. if they were caged the scene would represent a zoo, where foreign species can gaze at each other with interest but no danger. small step for queer kind and all that but i think there you really get a sense for how calculated this all is -- we can expose this audience to shirtless slightly older men, but there can be no touching -- and so i understand where the cynicism would start to creep in.
― J0rdan S., Monday, 15 January 2018 16:43 (six days ago) Permalink
yeah, the ultra-cynical take on this is "Jake/Logan Paul with good production"
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 15 January 2018 17:08 (six days ago) Permalink
I've decided I won't ever make another video without a shot of me sucking dick in it
― flamboyant goon tie included, Monday, 15 January 2018 17:57 (six days ago) Permalink
*at the climactic moment of The Riverbed, a thought bubble appears above the protagonist's head*
― #TeamHailing (imago), Monday, 15 January 2018 18:02 (six days ago) Permalink
yo this song sucks
― billstevejim, Monday, 15 January 2018 20:36 (six days ago) Permalink
Johnny Gill, about whom there are questions about his private life too, already released the superior "My, My, My."
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 15 January 2018 20:56 (six days ago) Permalink
i love that song! (johnny gill's.) the growling and ad libs!
lol omg i didn't know that halsey and g-eazy were dating, how awful
― dyl, Monday, 15 January 2018 23:04 (six days ago) Permalink
A lot of girls I know are thrilled by the video clip for the Troye song. Whereas with all the hype I was surprised by how tentative it then seemed.
I wonder if maybe the way the clip presents a younger, relatively androgynous-looking Troye implicitly objectifying older, rougher-looking dudes who do not much but lurk suggestively without shirts in the background suggests a dynamic that - while incredibly familiar within gay culture, particularly gay clubbing culture, and particularly-particularly over the last five years or so - feels more novel if yr notion of male objectification is effectively split between boy-band twink and, I dunno, Daniel Craig as James Bond emerging out of the sea or something.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 16 January 2018 00:56 (five days ago) Permalink
Sivan appeals to the sort of woman like the one I met a decade ago who boasted about how many gay boys were her friends.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 16 January 2018 01:15 (five days ago) Permalink
Hmm I don't know how true that general archetype is these days, at least in my world of gay-friendly straight people - the kind of women i'm thinking of would not just have more gay male friends than straight male friends but would move in circles where that is totally unremarkable (literally - it would not occur to anyone to remark on it).
The separation really comes down to how people intersect with gay ~culture~ rather than gay guys per se - you can have brunch with a dude every Saturday morning and be pretty close to him while being effectively ignorant of his Saturday night habit of going to parties wearing a jockstrap and harness.
― Tim F, Tuesday, 16 January 2018 01:48 (five days ago) Permalink
that's my life!
As for your first paragraph: it's a musty archetype for sure; the mid 2000s were the last time when a gay man would even allow himself to be subjected to this tokenism.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 16 January 2018 03:14 (five days ago) Permalink
i like this one more, the synths are gorgeous
― ufo, Sunday, 21 January 2018 06:19 (twelve hours ago) Permalink