Rolling Global Outernational Non-West Non-English (Some Exceptions) 2018 Thread Once Known as World Music

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed

Separate threads for releases from each and every country won't get many posts, hence this thread. Almost the same title as last year, but new year. You know the drill-

this is the thread for polyrhythmic, funky, bluesy,groove-filled new + reissued music from lots of different places that may include Mauritania, Ghana, Congo, Kenya, Niger, Mali, South Africa, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, and other places that make cool music that doesn't always get enough press in the west. This music may be less "clubby" than on other threads, but its ok to lean in that direction too.I tend to lean towards countries from below the equator.

Plus I like to hear about live music.

curmudgeon, Monday, 1 January 2018 19:43 (eight months ago) Permalink

Still digging through picks on the Afropop Stocking stuffers 2017 list; and also looking to see what's on Said the Gramophone and other lists that I might have missed.

curmudgeon, Monday, 1 January 2018 19:46 (eight months ago) Permalink

Also listened a bit to slightly syrupy and operatic but still powerful veteran Iranian balladeer Ebi who is going to be appearing at the 4000 seat DAR Constitution Hall in Washington DC on January 27th. Don't know about other gigs

curmudgeon, Monday, 1 January 2018 19:56 (eight months ago) Permalink

3MA....I need to give this trio another listen. Supergroup with members from Mali, Morocco & Madagascar

curmudgeon, Thursday, 4 January 2018 04:06 (eight months ago) Permalink

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/04/opinion/beatles-of-vietnam.html?_r=0

As so many rock ’n’ roll stories do, the CBC Band’s began with the purchase of a guitar behind the back of a disapproving father.

When he was a young child in Vietnam, Tung Linh wanted a guitar, so his mother bought one for him. His father, Phan Van Pho, was a cook for French officials in Hanoi, and he wanted his children to become doctors or engineers, not musicians. When he found the guitar, he smashed it.

But his wife, Hoang Thi Nga, nurtured Tung Linh’s interest in American music, which he shared with two of his seven siblings: Bich Loan, a singer, and Tung Van on drums. When their father died in the late 1950s, Ms. Hoang went to work as a custodian on a Republic of Vietnam naval base. The family was poor, and those years were hard, but she wanted her children to be happy, so she nurtured their desire to perform American music.

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 10 January 2018 05:04 (eight months ago) Permalink

Jupiter & Okwess band from the Congo for free 6 to 7 pm est Fri. the 12th at Kennedy Center in W. DC. Video streaming live (k. Ctr website & Facebook live). Video archived too.

Also, heard an advance of new Tal National. First 3 cuts are raucous African funky rocky fun

curmudgeon, Friday, 12 January 2018 15:40 (eight months ago) Permalink

i really love tal national. i can't wait to hear the new one.

Mordy, Friday, 12 January 2018 15:51 (eight months ago) Permalink

goin' to globalfest on sunday

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Friday, 12 January 2018 20:00 (eight months ago) Permalink

Jupiter & Okwess rocking those rumba meets psychedelic rock grooves right now

curmudgeon, Friday, 12 January 2018 23:48 (eight months ago) Permalink

I forget to read this thread but have we talked about 'Sweet As Broken Dates: Lost Somali Tapes from the Horn Of Africa'? Because it's god damn incredible

FREEZE! FYI! (dog latin), Monday, 15 January 2018 10:25 (eight months ago) Permalink

Yes, talked about last year

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 16 January 2018 17:38 (eight months ago) Permalink

also just discovered that and it is amazing!

I'm was thinking about starting a thread for the more recent wave of african reissues after listening to strut's fantastic Oté Maloya comp from last year. I kind of checked out of following the reissue market after picking up my nth afro-funk comp, but now that they've started to move into the 80s I think there's likely a bunch of good stuff I've missed (it's sad the reggae reissue market basically died before they got out of the 70s).

rob, Tuesday, 16 January 2018 18:10 (eight months ago) Permalink

Jon Pareles in his NY Times review of GlobalFest 2018 like Congo's Jupiter & Okwess live as much I did:

But the night’s fiercest, most diverse grooves belonged to Jupiter & Okwess: the singer, songwriter and bandleader Jupiter Bokondji and his band, from Kinshasa in the Democratic Republic of Congo, with songs that joyfully carried conscientious messages like “Protect women.” The briskly upbeat rhythm of Congolese soukous, well known worldwide, was only part of the set. Mr. Bokondji traveled extensively in Congo and learned many local, lesser-known styles that infuse his songs, giving them variety and bite. He’s also clearly fond of what a wah-wah pedal can do.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/15/arts/music/globalfest-review.html?_r=0

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 05:02 (eight months ago) Permalink

liked.

He reviewed many of the 12 groups including Paris-based Guadeloupean trio Delgres, Cuban artist La Dame Blanche, Brazilian post-tropicalia singer Ava Rocha and more

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 05:07 (eight months ago) Permalink

hello international music friends -- if you have a little extra time/goodwill, please bookmark my thread:

help me with my class?

you wouldn't have to do anything more than contribute a small portion of your existing knowledge :)

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 17 January 2018 16:38 (eight months ago) Permalink

jupiter and okwess were fine; i loved iberi, jarlath henderson and miramar

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Wednesday, 17 January 2018 17:42 (eight months ago) Permalink

Will give them a listen. Actually I have seen and heard Miramar and like their quiet boleros and ballads. Watched Brazilian singer Ava Rocha and band from their Kennedy Center gig tonight ( via video stream). She’s theatrical and kinda Bjork like at times and the band adds postpunk guitar to the Tropicalia base.

A local promoter near me who was up there visiting, loved the Guadeloupe group with guitar and tuba. The video clip he shared though had a fairly conventional blues-rock sound.

curmudgeon, Thursday, 18 January 2018 03:18 (eight months ago) Permalink

miramar was okay on tape but daaaaaang they were great in person Rocha didn't do much for me live or on tape, but it's very much a matter of taste with her i gather.

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Thursday, 18 January 2018 04:03 (eight months ago) Permalink

Still catching up on 2017 releases- listened for 2nd time to the trio 3MA featuring Mali’s Ballaké Sissoko on kora, Moroccan oud virtuoso Driss El Maloumi, and Madagascar’s valiha player Rajery.

Mellow and pleasant with Sissoko's wonderful harp-like kora work often taking the lead.

Oh, listened to one track from Irish folkie Jarlath Henderson whom Ulysses liked at Globalfest 2018. Not a big fan of the genre, so would have to listen more to make up my mind. But I'm probably not the person to ask re his style.

Haven't listened yet to his other fave Georgian folk Group Iberi Choir.

curmudgeon, Monday, 22 January 2018 19:05 (eight months ago) Permalink

Listening to Blay Ambolley from Ghana's 2017 album Ketan. He's a highlife/hiplife bandleader/musician. Nice old-school sound.

Gyedu-Blay Ambolley was rather unknown outside of West Africa until Soundway Records included his seminal Simigwa-Do, which Ambolley released in 1973, on their first anthology, Ghana Soundz.

That's from Wiki.

curmudgeon, Monday, 22 January 2018 21:07 (eight months ago) Permalink

The album has a kinda Fela feel to it

curmudgeon, Monday, 22 January 2018 21:28 (eight months ago) Permalink

Been reading about the upcoming debut album by this Malian veteran percussionist but I haven't heard it yet--

Hama Sankaré --Ballébé - Calling All Africans

Alpha Ousmane "Hama" Sankaré (aka Pedro) is a legend. He has anchored the bands of many great artists of Mali: Ali Farka Toure, Afel Bocoum, le Troupe Regionale de Niafunké, l'Orchestre de Gao, Songhoy Allstars, and Mamadou Kelly's BanKaiNa, and he can be heard on many of the seminal recordings of Mali's music. He is the master of contemporary calabash percussion and defined it's the playing style. He has toured the world. Hama's influence is unchallenged as composer, arranger, and instrumentalist. Unbelievably, Ballébé - Calling All Africans is the first album in his own name

curmudgeon, Monday, 29 January 2018 19:20 (seven months ago) Permalink

Looks like the Africa Express project is recording again.

It's Day 4 for @africaexpress recording in Joburg....@gruffingtonpost @THEREALGHETTS @Damonalbarn @BombayBicycle @nonkulululu @MahotellaQueens @muziou #pote #otim the productivity is incredible. pic.twitter.com/I86lbFIvEC

— Africa Express (@africaexpress) January 31, 2018

afriendlypioneer, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 15:11 (seven months ago) Permalink

Wow, Mahotella Queens still at it

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 31 January 2018 15:56 (seven months ago) Permalink

kind of amazing, right? I grew up listening to them!

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Wednesday, 31 January 2018 16:10 (seven months ago) Permalink

They formed in 1964 I see on Wiki. In spite of the deaths of Mahlathini, Marks Mankwane and West Nkosi during the late 1990s, the Mahotella Queens continue to perform and record in the 21st century. In 2013, long-serving member Mildred Mangxola retired from the group. She was replaced by a new recruit, Amanda Nkosi.

curmudgeon, Thursday, 1 February 2018 02:44 (seven months ago) Permalink

Not sure where to put this, but I'm currently obsessed by this site where you can see what's the most streamed track on youtube in cities around the world, and listen to said tracks on the site

https://pudding.cool/2018/01/music-map/

mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Thursday, 1 February 2018 17:27 (seven months ago) Permalink

#1 Song in Your City - Interactive, updated map for discovery
i will be curious to see if they update with January; that would make it a regular visit

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Thursday, 1 February 2018 19:05 (seven months ago) Permalink

The mighty Mahotella Queens rehearsing with their new band of @gruffingtonpost @nickzinner @Damonalbarn @Georgiadrumming for tonight’s show #africaexpress pic.twitter.com/fPrWsqLjEa

— Africa Express (@africaexpress) February 2, 2018

They're playing a show tonight.

afriendlypioneer, Friday, 2 February 2018 14:33 (seven months ago) Permalink

#legends

Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Friday, 2 February 2018 16:14 (seven months ago) Permalink

https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/on-hearing-my-fathers-legacy-in-vampire-weekend/

Fanta Sylla, daughter of legendary late producer Ibrahima Sylla , on her initial enjoyment of Vampire Weekend ‘s 1st album and then goes from there to discuss Congolese music and colonialism and more.

She also links to another interesting piece https://www.cairn.info/revue-politique-africaine-2005-4-page-69.html

curmudgeon, Friday, 2 February 2018 16:49 (seven months ago) Permalink

that Sylla piece is excellent, thanks for posting that. It should probably go on that recent tuneyards thread, but maybe that thing is best forgotten

rob, Friday, 2 February 2018 18:37 (seven months ago) Permalink

Ha. I need to listen to that Congolese/Canadian guy Pierre Kwenders you mentioned on another thread

curmudgeon, Saturday, 3 February 2018 15:55 (seven months ago) Permalink

x-post I wonder if any members of the Makgona Tsohle Band who used to back the Mahotella Queens are still alive and able to perform?

curmudgeon, Saturday, 3 February 2018 22:08 (seven months ago) Permalink

Fanta Sylla in Pitchfork Pitch piece linked above:

Growing up, I was ambivalent about what I perceived to be a general indifference towards African music. There was a rich history, a diversity of styles, and countless brilliant artists people didn’t seem to want to explore. It felt like people could only handle African music if it was mixed or filtered with something they recognized. But rather than calling out white artists who appropriate African music, I’ve always been more concerned that the African genres and artists that inspired them were given proper credit and financial support. I’m interested in the inclusion of African music in non-African publications, and in a passionate critical approach by African writers on the sounds that color their lives (look to Cameroonian writer Achille Mbembe’s beautiful piece on Congolese music for a great example).

It's nice that Pitchfork Pitch posted this, but alas I didn't see a single artist based on the African continent in the Pitchfork best of tracks or albums list for 2017. Periodically over the years they've posted stuff by Deej and others, but nothing consistently.

curmudgeon, Saturday, 3 February 2018 22:46 (seven months ago) Permalink

ANEWAL is the new trio of Alhousseini Anivolla, lead guitarist and singer of internationally renowned desert blues band Etran Finatawa. Formed in 2012

Listened to their 2017 album. They have that sound down.

curmudgeon, Monday, 5 February 2018 15:33 (seven months ago) Permalink

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/petite-noir-accuses-damon-albarn-project-africa-express-of-musician-exploitation/

Seems Africa Express isn't being too well received by some of the involved musicians.

afriendlypioneer, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:18 (seven months ago) Permalink

Ouch. Terrible contract. No comments yet from Albarn or Zimmer or others associated with Africa Express

curmudgeon, Monday, 5 February 2018 22:19 (seven months ago) Permalink

Zinner I mean

curmudgeon, Monday, 5 February 2018 22:19 (seven months ago) Permalink

"As we pay all the travel, accommodation and other costs for Western artists joining us on trips, we ask them to volunteer their time."

So Mr. Blur & Gorillaz's @africaexpress costs get paid for, but he can't afford to pay Africans for anything, or even promise them a specific percentage of any possible profits. Hmm.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 03:46 (seven months ago) Permalink

Seeing complicating and contradictory comments about this Africa Express thing on Facebook . Some insisting this just relates to standard rules when recording a charity benefit album as they were apparently doing in South Africa in addition to the gigs. But the language in the contract seems problematic

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 15:35 (seven months ago) Permalink

well when africa express rolled thru addis 6 or so years ago, the ethiop musicians here were not happy with the way they were treated, felt disrespected in their own clubs by ppl like flea and others general dissatisfaction has been the sense i've gotten over the years, was surprised still going on

H in Addis, Tuesday, 6 February 2018 17:32 (seven months ago) Permalink

Oh. That's not good. I had seen various references to gig appearances in the UK and Africa, but until now did not know of any recordings as they just did in South Africa. Seems like Albarn and Africa Express brought a number of fellow (white) musicians like like Blue May, and Mr. Jukes in addition to YYY's Zinner to South Africa to work with young South African gqom dance folks as well as Mahotella Queens. Blue May's defense of the project on FB makes a few good points and provides a bit more info but overall it isn't that understanding or impressive.

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 7 February 2018 19:15 (seven months ago) Permalink

just bought the Jupiter & Okwess album. nearly put off by the sticker on the front that mentions Damon Albarn.

Badgers (dog latin), Friday, 9 February 2018 09:08 (seven months ago) Permalink

Ignore that sticker.

----------------------------------

Maybe not for this thread but I just read the below articles and haven't listened to these acts yet

http://www.okayafrica.com/congolese-music-artists-new-killing-it/

I don't know any of these Congolese rappers and r'n'b acts-- Maître Gims and others

http://www.okayafrica.com/black-panther-album-south-african-artists/

Sjava and 3 others.

I don't know these folks either

curmudgeon, Sunday, 11 February 2018 05:55 (seven months ago) Permalink

I did watch the video of Ethiopian Jewish musician living in Israel Gili Yalo. Nice blend of funk, pop and Ethiopian grooves

http://www.clashmusic.com/news/premiere-gili-yalo-selam

curmudgeon, Sunday, 11 February 2018 06:05 (seven months ago) Permalink

loving the heck out of that yalo ethiojazz

Mordy, Sunday, 11 February 2018 17:16 (seven months ago) Permalink

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/culture/.premium-how-racism-changed-ethiopian-israeli-singer-1.5423209

Interesting interview with Yalo from 2016

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 15:53 (seven months ago) Permalink

oh hell yeah that's great

niels, Tuesday, 21 August 2018 07:42 (one month ago) Permalink

Saw Innov Gnawa do a special live set awhile back at an old Baltimore synagogue of North African Sephardic-rooted music. Good stuff.

curmudgeon, Sunday, 26 August 2018 01:55 (one month ago) Permalink

Still shocked and sad re Khaira Arby's death at only 59.

curmudgeon, Sunday, 26 August 2018 01:56 (one month ago) Permalink

reading about 33 year-old Afghan singer Aryana Sayeed who performs in her home country sometimes even though the Taliban and mullahs have issued death threats against her

http://www.spiegel.de/international/interview-with-afghan-pop-star-aryana-sayeed-on-women-in-afghanistan-a-1220274.html

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 28 August 2018 04:00 (four weeks ago) Permalink

One of Sayeed ‘s most viewed songs on YouTube

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WxbZBbmpr58

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 29 August 2018 23:40 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Oh no I totally missed the news about Arby, that is really sad

rob, Wednesday, 29 August 2018 23:49 (four weeks ago) Permalink

Listening to Emel Mathlouthi, female Tunisian singer who came to fame with the Tunisian revolution in 2010. She's kinda Arabic folky, but sometimes now sings over programmed beats and sounds artsy

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 5 September 2018 04:38 (three weeks ago) Permalink

SOAR by Catrin Finch and Seckou Keita, second collaboration between the harp and kora players. https://open.spotify.com/album/2s5WYOg1fezE42u6X0GqJc?si=9xI9lJXgRwCgqDnIbEIovg
^^this one is great!

niels, Thursday, 6 September 2018 06:42 (two weeks ago) Permalink

World Music Fest in Chicago is about to start -- psyyyyyyyyched!!! https://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/dca/supp_info/world_music_festival.html

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 6 September 2018 15:07 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Here's a very groovy live set by Senegal's Marema, at the Africa Festival in Germany:

- https://www.arte.tv/en/videos/076003-002-A/marema-africa-festival/

(Video is available online until 31 Dec 2019)

sbahnhof, Sunday, 9 September 2018 06:27 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I like Marema’s vocals and some of the songs I have heard, although a few sound influenced by Peter Gabriel sorta — not as crazy about those.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 19:57 (two weeks ago) Permalink

https://m.france24.com/en/20180912-french-based-algerian-singer-rachid-taha-dies-59

Rip Taha. He did a rendition of “Rock the Casbah “ that got some crossover attention

curmudgeon, Wednesday, 12 September 2018 15:18 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Was listening again to the late Rachid Taha's rockin Algerian rai music last night. Sad he's gone too soon.

curmudgeon, Thursday, 13 September 2018 13:41 (one week ago) Permalink

x-post-- that Chicago Fest looks good. If I was out there I would see Jupiter & Okwess from the Congo (again) on the 22nd and/or 23rd.

curmudgeon, Monday, 17 September 2018 16:28 (one week ago) Permalink

From Simon Reynolds piece on Autotune in Pitchfork, discussed on ilm rockism thread:

When it was first embraced by Western audiences in the ’80s, African music tended to be associated with qualities like rootsy, earthy, authentic, natural—in other words, values fundamentally at odds with Auto-Tune. Actually, this was a mistaken—and dare I say, rockist—projection. Most early forms of Afro-pop, such as highlife or juju, were slick, the work of highly professional bands not averse to a little bit of razzle dazzle. There was nothing particular rural about this sound, which was to a large degree associated with an urbane, sophisticated, cosmopolitan audience. Nor was it particularly “pure” in the way that Western world music enthusiasts seemed to crave: It always eagerly incorporated ideas from black America, the Caribbean, and the outside world, from King Sunny Adé’s Shadows-style twangy guitar, to the synths and drum machines in ’80s Ethiopian electro-funk.

So it makes perfect sense that 21st century Afrobeat would embrace the latest in sonic modernity.

curmudgeon, Monday, 17 September 2018 17:57 (one week ago) Permalink

When it was first embraced by Western audiences in the ’80s, African music tended to be associated with qualities like rootsy, earthy, authentic, natural

is this true? who/what is he talking about? putumayo listeners? i feel like african music that could be described that way exists - as field recordings, folk styles, etc - but the same thing applies in the west as well. once music starts to travel, becomes urban, gets radio play it immediately becomes eclectic in its influences. seems like maybe a strawlistener. ppl who listened to african crossover music in the 80s like lizzy mercier descloux or graceland would i think get how cosmopolitan this music was.

Mordy, Monday, 17 September 2018 18:17 (one week ago) Permalink

crossover influenced

Mordy, Monday, 17 September 2018 18:19 (one week ago) Permalink

Yea, it's all a little more complicated. There are both Putumayo listeners and others who do view this simplistically, and so yes Simon would have been better if he had stated African music tended to be associated BY SOME WESTERNERS

Sometimes I feel a bit defensive with this thread that some people will think we're pushing and embracing "rockist" global sounds rather than the pop modern ones of the Afrobeats thread. I would hope that most people here know that multiple types of sounds exist everywhere (and depending on taste, age, etc.) one can find music inspiring in all camps no matter how its made.

curmudgeon, Monday, 17 September 2018 19:55 (one week ago) Permalink

it's a little weird bc i don't think of world folk music traditions as rockist? but maybe i don't know what rockist means anymore? but like field recordings def don't scan as rockist to me. isn't rockism like canonical western guitar band albums? how would that relate to putumayo listeners who i have complaints about but i don't think of as rockist? when you say "rockist global sounds" do u mean those sounds or do u mean more like stuff that guitar band fans might like like tuareg blues type stuff?

Mordy, Monday, 17 September 2018 20:13 (one week ago) Permalink

Rockist to me simply means here "I like music played on real instruments with real vocalists" not "Programmed computer sounds with autotuned vocals"....

World music fests that include only folks playing sounds on old-school traditional instruments, but not new autotuned vocalists from such countries, might also be a type of rockism to some. Of course, others will say that such fests are highlighting the sounds that don't get the support and recognition that the younger (usually) autuned pop gets.

curmudgeon, Monday, 17 September 2018 20:20 (one week ago) Permalink

Sneering at Congolese rumba and soukous dance records and saying its not authentic like field recordings could also be seen as rockist

curmudgeon, Monday, 17 September 2018 20:23 (one week ago) Permalink

I don't think a recording itself can even be rockist but appreciation of folk recordings can come in the guise of "look at the authentic roots of the music that ended up as Blues/Rock when it came to the US", i.e. framing it only in the context of its influence on Rock (obviously this works better w/ some field recordings than others).

Then there's the impulse to ignore modern Pop coming from Africa and rejecting anything that sounds to o influenced by Western music but I dunno if that's rockism so much as the kind of old school folkie mentality that angered Dylan in the US and the Tropicália bunch in Brazil.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 11:25 (one week ago) Permalink

Conflating traditionalism with rockism is weird to me; not all status quos are the same.

Mordy, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 13:42 (one week ago) Permalink

I think a lot of critics see rockism as the privileging of tropes of a specific genre (or culture?) when analysing music not from that genre, and that genre doesn't have to be Rock (though it usually is). At least that was the answer here some time in the early to mid 00's when someone brought up if there could be "popism", "reggaeism", etc.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 13:50 (one week ago) Permalink

There are lots of reasons someone might privilege folk traditions over popular music that have nothing to do with Rock music (and lots of reasons that such an approach would be anti-Rock in its essence). I think thinking about African music might obscure this for the very reasons that Reynolds claims is afflicting these supposed "rockists." People aren't familiar enough with African folk to know what it is so they're assuming it's just proto-Blues & Rock. If you talked about non-African folk traditions though this distinction would be obvious. No one would accuse a klezmer purist who preferred Dave Tarras (1955 klezmer artist) to Golem (contemporary punk-klezmer outfit) of being a Rockist. Maybe of being misguided in other ways (Klezmer has always had outside influences, Tarras was not himself as genre pure as you'd assume, etc), but Rockism would be a bizarre accusation. I think similarly with African music - if someone loves Mbuti pygmy music and thinks that it's more authentic than Congolese rumba I think that person is missing out but I doubt they're animated by rockism so much as ethnomusicological biases.

Mordy, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 14:22 (one week ago) Permalink

they're all just different ways of esteeming some notion of authenticity

ogmor, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 14:42 (one week ago) Permalink

"not all status quos are the same."

Mordy, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 14:44 (one week ago) Permalink

Re: egregious over- and mis-use of the term 'rockism': ILM gonna ILM.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 14:47 (one week ago) Permalink

not even all rockisms are the same. if anyone's got a better shorthand pls avail us

ogmor, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 14:56 (one week ago) Permalink

prescriptivism?

Mordy, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 14:57 (one week ago) Permalink

Gatekeeping?

pomenitul, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 14:59 (one week ago) Permalink

if someone thinks western art music is the height of music and pop music is all garbage aka a classical music snob are they also "rockists"? i mean acc to the idea that rockism is just emphasizing some forms of music as more authentic than others then definitely but it's v stupid calling someone who hates rock music a rockist.

Mordy, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 15:01 (one week ago) Permalink

Yeah but 'prescriptivism' sounds less like 'racism' so idk.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 15:03 (one week ago) Permalink

It is my understanding that yeah, as the term was used from the get-go it could indeed apply both to yr hypothetical klezmer fan and yer classical music snob. I see why you would think that to not be very helpful as a term but in this particular context I think it's pretty obvious what Reynolds is getting at, anyway.

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 15:07 (one week ago) Permalink

historically informed performance you could call rockist, but snobbery can run in all sorts of directions, likewise gatekeeping could be done on a rockist basis but not necessarily

ogmor, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 15:12 (one week ago) Permalink

Mordy otm

crüt, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 15:21 (one week ago) Permalink

trying to assess folk traditions in terms of the vocabulary of a very specific school of British pop music criticism seems massively short-sighted to me

crüt, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 15:29 (one week ago) Permalink

"rockism" was invented to take Robert Christgau down a peg not to describe African music

crüt, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 15:30 (one week ago) Permalink

i don't love the SR piece but it's not doing that, you guys are v rockist about the usage of the term rockist

ogmor, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 15:31 (one week ago) Permalink

yeah, it's about western perceptions of African music and "world music" as a category, it's got nothing to do with trying to describe any actual music

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 15:35 (one week ago) Permalink

'My coinage is so utterly exemplary that it turns any and all proximate terms into subcategories of it'.

pomenitul, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 15:38 (one week ago) Permalink

prescriptivism is the correct term imo
it is what i was going to post before i decided i didn't want to get into the discussion that far (and then changed my mind)

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 18 September 2018 16:05 (one week ago) Permalink

there is nothing wrong with exploring and appreciating the roots of popular music if it is informative; if it is prescriptive ("this is the greatest music right here") then obviously that is not in the correct spirit of music appreciation

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 18 September 2018 16:06 (one week ago) Permalink

I kind of want to thank this thread for validating every misgiving and suspicion I ever had about the concept of "rockism".

The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r), Tuesday, 18 September 2018 16:06 (one week ago) Permalink

(the term itself, obv, not the nebulous thing it supposedly refers to)

The nexus of the crisis (Sund4r), Tuesday, 18 September 2018 16:07 (one week ago) Permalink

Moving on slightly from the authenticity discussion-

So I saw Malian band BKO Quintet last night in a small DC club. I liked the way the musician on the electrified ngoni uh rocked. Not flashy, but quick fingers that created rhythm and noisey notes. The drummer, percussionist, & kora player added funkiness. But I guess they’re considered roots/ traditional since they don’t rap, or use autotune, or programmed beats.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 18:17 (one week ago) Permalink

I am guessing that in Mali BKO’s audience is different a bit from Malian rappers, but I don’t know; and don’t know how folks of different ages and classes there view traditionalism and pop and authenticity.

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 18 September 2018 18:31 (one week ago) Permalink

BKO Quintet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZNm3dZbGI4

curmudgeon, Friday, 21 September 2018 06:03 (five days ago) Permalink

this looks cool haven't heard it yet

https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a2440170954_16.jpg

Mordy, Friday, 21 September 2018 17:42 (five days ago) Permalink

That does look intriguing. Currently listening though to a more serious Arab world effort-- DC based Palestinian singer/oud player Huda Asfour whom I have touted here before. She's on Spotify and her latest album Kouni is very good.

curmudgeon, Monday, 24 September 2018 04:07 (two days ago) Permalink


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.