Greta Van Fleet

why is there such a "difference" between this band aping Led Zep vs. the dozen or more popular bands that rip Black Sabbath? Or are there point-making reviews dissing Electric Wizard et al that I've just missed the threads about

Bands ripping Black Sabbath don't usually have major label bucks behind them and aren't touted as "Saviors Of (true) Rock-'n'-Roll" by Rolling Stone etc​.

It might come down to the vocals. Most bands that go the sludgy Sabbath route don't also ape Ozzy.

I'd say these guys show some promise. The singer is fun to watch and has good stage presence. They have some budding song-writing skills. The Plant-alike vocals are no doubt responsible for a lot of their notoriety, but I don't have too much of a problem with them. Probably as they develop they'll start sounding more like themselves and less like a Zep-clone.

would that be an improvement? time may tell. they'll prolly just end up sounding like Kings of Leon.

Maybe. The singer's look is a bit jam band to my eyes, so there's a real possibility they get worse.

Bands ripping Black Sabbath don't usually have major label bucks behind them and aren't touted as "Saviors Of (true) Rock-'n'-Roll" by Rolling Stone etc​.

This is clearly not what RS was saying in that 3-star review, though.

Electric Wizard don't sound like Sabbath though really. They exist on a continuum of course but they're unmistakably different things. If you'd told me that 'Highway Tune' was an In Through The Out Door outtake or demo I probably would have believed you.

John Paul Jones was asked on MTV around 1989 or so about Kingdom Come and other bands who claimed a Zep influence. He said that these bands' rhythm sections were all (in his words) "BOOM. BASH. BOOM. BASH." He stressed that he and Bonham were James Brown fanatics, and that that element was completely missed/missing from the new bands' approach.

These Led Zeppelin comparisons always make me wonder if the listener has ever really heard the band. In musical terms they have more in common with the Meters or Pentangle or Eddie Cochrane or whoever than any of these caterwauling+riffage! bands.

I've been thinking about this on and off since I was 12 or so. I think that basically the thing is that if/when you do get musicians who are both i) as eclectic and voracious in their interests as Zep and ii) at a comparable level of musical skill, they will probably also want to do something fairly original and not just recreate the sound of one of the most-played bands in rock history. A combination of electric blues/English folk/funk/Middle Eastern/noise improv influences is as likely as not to result in the resulting band being classified as something like "jazz" or "folk" or "avant" today. Afaict, Kingdom Come/Whitesnake/Bonham/Wolfmother/GVF aspire/d to the popularity of Zep and so essentially write/wrote pop songs tailored to the rock radio of their (less 'freeform' or 'progressive') day, based on a surface-level imitation of instantly recognizable elements of Zep's sound?

which can sometimes be OK!

One of my fav ilm posts

hard rock/metal is a multi-facted genre, and led zep successfully embodied almost every existing impulse; the guitar god, ersatz bloozmen, thudding knuckledraggers, stoner jamz, proggy wankfest showoffs, 4 on the floor bar rock, hippy dippy flower child folk, pseudo eastern psychobabble, I'm a double-cocked loverman baby, olde english stylee mythology, satanic mysticism. they're like the collective unconscious of rock.

I voted for sabbath.

-- Edward III, Friday, January 18, 2008 3:28 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Link

It’s funny you mention that because when I was a teenager I went through this phase where I said “If I really want to capture Zeppelin’s secret sauce I need to listen to what *they* listened to, and that got me into a bunch of folk and blues and R&B (to the extent I could discern the right things to listen to in the pre internet days,” and honestly that did make me both understand Zeppelin better and a better musician. But also the idea of using that to do nothing but recreate Zeppelin did come to seem very boring.

Tying to sound like Led Zeppelin, the biggest barrier is that those are some pretty singular musicians with pretty singular talents. As is often noted, lots of drummers try to mic their set like John Bonham, or play their set like John Bonham, or use the same equipment as John Bonham, or record in the same rooms as John Bonham. The only problem is they are not John Bonham. Which - not to veer into well trod territory - has always been one of my longtime defenses of accusations of plagiarism against Led Zeppelin. They might have ripped off a whole bunch of stuff, but they didn't sound like that stuff, not really, because of the players involved. In fact, hearing a lot of Zeppelin randomly on the radio for the last few days, I don't think Led Zeppelin really sounded like anybody at all. It's amazing how well those albums have aged, and how unique and singular they remain. Just that strange alchemy, that mix of all those disparate influences plus the particular players involved. Almost like a hard rock stroke of luck ala The Smiths.

I’m not even a Zep fan really, but once I played a set of Bonham vistalites in a Guitar Center and I remember feeling like “this is how drums are supposed to sound.” I kinda wanna buy some if I ever start playing again!

Good post, Josh. Yeah, my “defense” of Led Zep against plagiarism is along the same lines — let me know who they swiped the bridge of “Ten Years Gone” from, because I gotta hear those guys!

Also makes me wonder, though, if there been any truly great bands that aren’t equally as “singular” as Zep; or (to put it another way) which have been more successfully “imitated.”

Like, to take the example you mentioned, there have been bands which took elements of the Smiths’ sound, but did their own thing with it (e.g., the Sundays). Not a straight-up imitation.

Another (obvious) point is — you can’t “imitate” writing great songs.

Emil Amos (Holy Sons) recounts going into a Chapel Hill record store as a 12 year-old (and in the company of his mother) and nervously asking the clerk "Will there ever be a better band than Led Zeppelin?"

The clerk was Mac McCaughan, who gave it to him straight: "No."

I have not watched much in the way of early Zep live footage (so maybe it's an unfair comparison for a few years) but what strikes me about the costuming is how completely sexless the singer is - if you can't halfway mimic Robert Plant's cock outline, don't wear a vest with no shirt and leather pants.

NEW MUSIC

ON ILM

Xpost part of it is young Plant was just fuckin gorgeous too

if you can't halfway mimic Robert Plant's cock outline, don't wear a vest with no shirt and leather pants

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SnappyAlertJohndory-small.gif

Like, to take the example you mentioned, there have been bands which took elements of the Smiths’ sound, but did their own thing with it (e.g., the Sundays). Not a straight-up imitation.

Reminds me of an interview I heard with Steve Earle once, where he made a distinction between bands that imitated the Beatles and those that were clearly influenced by the Beatles but found their own voice. (Never mind the fact that everyone is influenced by the Beatles). He brought up Neil Finn as an example of a Beatles-esque songwriter that nonetheless rarely sounds like a rip-off.

Anyway, per Zep, I think a good rare example is Jeff Buckley, whose "Grace" is clearly informed by Zeppelin (to his reported chagrin) but whose voice (in every sense) was distinct enough that his/its impact was separate. No doubt because he had similarly disparate, eclectic influences. Genesis and Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan and Leonard Cohen, say, along with the aforementioned Smiths and Zeppelin.

Iirc, Chuck wrote in Stairway to Hell something to the effect that Zeppelin IV deserves credit for inspiring Sonic Youth and Prince as much as blame for Whitesnake and Kingdom Come?

The only problem is they are not John Bonham.

Don Henley complained to Glyn Johns about his drum mix on an early Eagles album, "Why can't you mix it so it sounds like John Bonham?" Glyn replied, "Because you are not John Bonham."

I seem to recall him proudly mic'ing the drums on the first Television album a la Bonham, and when he passed out after drinking too much the band re-mic'ed them the way they wanted them to sound.

Wait, that was Andy:

The first day in the studio came in November 1976. We had a 2pm start. Andy was nowhere in sight. Finally, about 4.30pm, he came traipsing in. He said, “I came in yesterday, to see what the place was like, and… I can’t work here!” He started listing all the technical tools these old studios didn’t have. We tried to calm him down. Finally, grudgingly, Andy said, “Well, I did manage to set the drums up last night. Got a good sound. Wanna hear it?”

He put on this tape he’d made. And, by God, from the speakers came this humongous, pumped-up John Bonham drum sound. Tom started freaking out. “No! No, no, no, no, no! We don’t want that! You need to take that apart!”

Andy was outraged. “Well, why did you hire me? That’s what I’m famous for. Fuck this! I’m getting a flight back!”

For the next few days, Andy would mutter, “Oh, right, so, this is some kind of New York thing. You want to sound bad like The Velvet Underground. You want to sound crap like The Stooges. I see…”

I was conflating that story with this one:

One day we came in and Andy was asleep in his chair snoring with a bottle of wine dangling from his left hand and several empty bottles on the floor. He had ordered a case of wine for himself and us—but he drank most of it while I drank some too. He had a burned out cigarette between the first two fingers of his right hand. We didn’t want to wake him so we asked Jim if we could tiptoe around him and record a song because we were eager to get started. That song was “Prove It.” When we felt we had a good take we came in and listened at low-volume so as not to wake up Andy. It felt good so we played it again a little louder, and then again even louder. Suddenly Andy snorted and woke up. As paranoid as he was about producing the record, he looked back and forth and forth and back and then asked, “Did I record this?” We all nodded yes and winked at Jim who told him, “Yes Andy, you recorded that—you don’t remember?” Andy's tension drained away and he proclaimed, “I am very good, aren’t I?”

http://loudwire.com/pitchfork-greta-van-fleet-review-album-rock-fans-respond/

“The rock community”

Counterpoint: anyone that would seriously defend this band probably will listen to and like anything, except rap, since that's not real music.

That's such an obvious strawman that I almost don't even want to reply, but I will seriously defend their right to exist as 19-21 year olds and to make efforts to do creative stuff.

They absolutely have a right to exist, duh. But they're such an unambitious low bar that to defend them is to defend pretty much anything. Nickelback, DMB, whatever. I mean, Greta On Fleek is not incompetent, but so what?

Idg why people think reposting some tweets makes for a news - or any other kind of - story. (Ans: because I clicked on the link)

"It’s funny you mention that because when I was a teenager I went through this phase where I said “If I really want to capture Zeppelin’s secret sauce I need to listen to what *they* listened to, and that got me into a bunch of folk and blues and R&B (to the extent I could discern the right things to listen to in the pre internet days,” and honestly that did make me both understand Zeppelin better and a better musician. But also the idea of using that to do nothing but recreate Zeppelin did come to seem very boring.

― Fedora Dostoyevsky (man alive)"

i don't think it's strictly _necessary_ to be a 12 year old skiffle guitarist to sound like zep, but greta van fleet would probably sound better if their guitarist was playing skiffle at the age of 12. this is more an indictment of greta van fleet than a defense of skiffle.

Any excuse...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVQIWyosEeI

Idg why people think reposting some tweets makes for a news - or any other kind of - story.

Lol, of course I knew it was nonsense myself, but posted it in the spirit of some Saturday night “fun”

Xpost part of it is young Plant was just fuckin gorgeous too

― Greta Van Fleek (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, October 27, 2018 7:16 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

is this a commonly held opinion? i don't really feel this way

The musicologist Susan Fast actually mentioned her youthful attraction to Plant in her (v good) book In the Houses of the Holy.

I don't think I'd complain if I were six foot whatever and looked like this:
http://www.ledzeppelin.com/sites/g/files/g2000006376/f/201807/rp-60-4.jpg

Good post btw, man alive.

I taped a lot of Howlin' Wolf off the radio and got Muddy Waters and Lightning Hopkins tapes for the same reason.

(I mean, "a lot" probably = one side of a C90. It seemed like a lot at the time.)

they're such an unambitious low bar

What a bunch of baloney. Have no idea what to attribute this to if it's not them being targeted because of their genre or the way they look or whatever. They're fairly ambitious for people of their age.

XXX was only 20

Lil Peep was only 21

The whole discussion about their age is kind of a non-starter. Like I grew up the 90s suburbs, which was like nearly 20 years removed from Led Zepplin and teens were still jamming Zep riffs, cf Wayne’s World “No Stairway” joke etc. It’s like the hands-down most basic “I like rock/I play guitar/I read Guitar World” kid music like 30 years running.

There’s probably ... SOMETHING ... that made this set of kids connect with an actual audience and I don’t see anyone trying to really pinpoint it. Maybe the kid just has a good voice?

I think Tim and I were trying to do that, a bit.

Like I grew up the 90s suburbs, which was like nearly 20 years removed from Led Zepplin and teens were still jamming Zep riffs, cf Wayne’s World “No Stairway” joke etc. It’s like the hands-down most basic “I like rock/I play guitar/I read Guitar World” kid music like 30 years running.

What does all of this have to do with whether or not age is relevant to this discussion?

XXX was only 20

― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, October 28, 2018 6:05 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think Greta Van Fleet should stay away from domestic violence

I think Greta Van Fleet should stay away from domestic violence

If you want your music to click with the teens of today (or critics in their late 30s desperate to stay relevant with the teens of today), pound on your girlfriend (especially if she's pregnant) and talk about suicide a lot.