listening to the albums in the order they were released, tbh I think 36 Chambers is gonna end up towards the bottom of my top 5. Sacrilege, I know.
The arc of RZA's evolution as a producer is really interesting, esp because the first album seems to come out of left-field and bears next to no resemblance to that dominant sounds on the east coast (Puffy/Biggie) and the west coast (Dre/Snoop/2-Pac) at the time that were clearly leading the way through rap's big crossover pop moment. RZA was drawing from a different, very NY-centric tradition though (I think Muggs/Cypress Hill is a notable exception/precedent), and you can hear these echoes of Juice Crew/Marley Marl, Premier, Pete Rock, even the Native Tongues, in the way the beats sound and the way the songs are structured and put together. What's different and sets it apart is the actual content/imagery of all the kung-fu film stuff, and the dusty, gritty, almost tinny sound of it. There is not a ton of low end on this record, but there is tons of distortion, noise, and weirdly chopped samples. And it's all fascinating but tbh I don't think it actually *sounds* as good as a bunch of stuff that came later as he refined his approach. By the time he gets to the Dirty album, something like "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" really bangs - minimalist as it is there's a depth and widescreen-appeal to the sound, everything is carefully placed and panned in the mix for maximum impact, the haze of the first album and Tical (which is muddy as *fuck*, the whole thing sounds underwater) is still deployed but it's more skillful, less sloppy.
And then by the time he gets to Cuban Linx (probably the peak imo) shit is sounding downright shiny and polished.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 October 2017 15:30 (six years ago) link
and oddly I feel like the back half of 36 Chambers - from C.R.E.A.M. on - is where it really hits it's stride
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 October 2017 15:37 (six years ago) link
also jfc getting this down to 36 tracks for my ballot is gonna be a bitch
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 October 2017 16:08 (six years ago) link
my first run through of just the albums I own (a little more than a dozen) yielded 60 tracks, and I've only just started to check out the Spotify playlist.
― bodak horseman (voodoo chili), Thursday, 5 October 2017 16:11 (six years ago) link
Think Rza himself said he stole the most from Prince Paul xps. good post tho.
Tical is pretty great sounding in it's murkiness. The bass is so maxed out and sloppy. Def pushes my sub to extremes.
― Spottie, Thursday, 5 October 2017 18:57 (six years ago) link
yeah iirc he cites Paul in the Wu-Tang Manual and they obviously had a personal connection. I get that Paul paved the way for being "weird" with the skits and samples and RZA ran with that, no doubt. but I don't really hear a lot of De La or Stetsasonic or 3rd Bass (lol) in that first album. the lo-fi grittiness reminds me more Marley Marl or BDP, it's the raw, scratchy loops.
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 October 2017 19:36 (six years ago) link
hear a lotta paul in this first gravediggaz album
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:00 (six years ago) link
cos he produced it
― Spottie, Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:12 (six years ago) link
he was sill credited on their second album too but dont think he had anything to do with it.
― Spottie, Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:25 (six years ago) link
tbrr I never liked either Gravediggaz album
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:27 (six years ago) link
the first one is an all-time classic IMO
― Marcus Hiles Remains Steadfast About Planting Trees.jpg (DJP), Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:28 (six years ago) link
first one is undeniable, 2nd one has a handful of tracks.
― Spottie, Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:32 (six years ago) link
never been a big fan of rza as emcee but love him on that album
― Spottie, Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:33 (six years ago) link
lol so my "shortlist" track ballot is um 150 tracks long
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 October 2017 20:48 (six years ago) link
yeah mine's still around that size atm gonna be tough
― Spottie, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:03 (six years ago) link
I'm committed to my top 5 but past that it gets a little squirrelly
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 5 October 2017 21:30 (six years ago) link
Couple things I noticed on the tracks list:
Gravediggaz - 2 Cups Of BloodGravediggaz - Two Cups of Blood
GZA - Basic Instructions Before Leaving EarthKillah Priest - BIBLE
― cwkiii, Friday, 6 October 2017 00:52 (six years ago) link
thanks, fixed. went with '2 Cups Of Blood' and removed GZAs BIBLE since it's really just a Killah Priest solo track anyway. retitled it to 'Killah Priest - B.I.B.L.E.'
― Spottie, Friday, 6 October 2017 06:46 (six years ago) link
I'm going to vote. I just don't have to anything much to add to the convo other than I think Winter Warz is going to be my number one.
― calumerio, Friday, 6 October 2017 07:09 (six years ago) link
jfc I forgot how bad some of Masta Killah's verses on Wu-Tang Forever are
― Οὖτις, Friday, 6 October 2017 15:05 (six years ago) link
the fact that almost every song on the W is actually like 2-3 songs cut together is making it hard to pick what to vote for (besides "I Can't Go to Sleep", I guess, which is a shoe-in)
― Οὖτις, Friday, 6 October 2017 17:27 (six years ago) link
will anyone be voting for any 8 Diagrams tracks? the only one even close to my ballot is Unpredictable tbh
― Οὖτις, Friday, 6 October 2017 21:15 (six years ago) link
Wolves is p good I guess
I like wolves but not sure it makes my top 36
― Spottie, Friday, 6 October 2017 21:44 (six years ago) link
i'll rep for wolves, gloriously weird
― bodak horseman (voodoo chili), Friday, 6 October 2017 22:32 (six years ago) link
finalizing my ballot, will send either tomorrow or over the weekend
― bodak horseman (voodoo chili), Thursday, 12 October 2017 22:18 (six years ago) link
yeah I think I'm done w mine too
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 12 October 2017 22:19 (six years ago) link
Have a solid top 19, then like 50 songs competing for the remaining slots
― intheblanks, Thursday, 12 October 2017 22:27 (six years ago) link
Havent received any ballots yet. hoping everyone comes through in the clutch
― Spottie, Thursday, 12 October 2017 22:33 (six years ago) link
You didnt get mine?
― Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 02:05 (six years ago) link
Nope not yet
― Spottie, Friday, 13 October 2017 05:56 (six years ago) link
hmm that's weird. I just sent it again
― Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 15:33 (six years ago) link
Got it!
― Spottie, Friday, 13 October 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link
Should note that the new Wu album just got released today
― Spottie, Friday, 13 October 2017 16:11 (six years ago) link
there better be at least one vote for Once Upon a Time in Shaolin
― Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 16:16 (six years ago) link
loving this right nowhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKGsguoVihkhad never heard
― Spottie, Friday, 13 October 2017 21:09 (six years ago) link
hey that is good! new to me too. beat kinda sounds like a chop of Banbarra (not the MSFB part)
― Οὖτις, Friday, 13 October 2017 21:14 (six years ago) link
yuphttps://www.whosampled.com/sample/108252/Cappadonna-Raekwon-Love-Is-the-Message-MFSB-Love-Is-the-Message/
― Spottie, Friday, 13 October 2017 21:19 (six years ago) link
OBFCL2 holds up well. way better than it should have been
― Spottie, Friday, 13 October 2017 21:23 (six years ago) link
sent ballot last night
― bodak horseman (voodoo chili), Saturday, 14 October 2017 13:45 (six years ago) link
Got it
― Spottie, Saturday, 14 October 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
sent!
― I Love You, Fancybear (symsymsym), Saturday, 14 October 2017 19:15 (six years ago) link
Almost done with my ballot, but want to say that I think this is interesting and otm:
The arc of RZA's evolution as a producer is really interesting, esp because the first album seems to come out of left-field and bears next to no resemblance to that dominant sounds on the east coast (Puffy/Biggie) and the west coast (Dre/Snoop/2-Pac) at the time that were clearly leading the way through rap's big crossover pop moment. ... And it's all fascinating but tbh I don't think it actually *sounds* as good as a bunch of stuff that came later as he refined his approach. By the time he gets to the Dirty album, something like "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" really bangs - minimalist as it is there's a depth and widescreen-appeal to the sound, everything is carefully placed and panned in the mix for maximum impact, the haze of the first album and Tical (which is muddy as *fuck*, the whole thing sounds underwater) is still deployed but it's more skillful, less sloppy.
Revisiting the albums in release order has been really interesting in seeing how much the RZA grows as a producer in just a few years, but also how much each of the members develops quickly. Rae is basically yelling throughout the first album, but by Ironman his raps have this great range and each line is just packed with syllables. Meth, too, I don't think he's that all that great on 36 Chambers even with his ample charisma, but by Forever every one of his lines kills me.
― intheblanks, Sunday, 15 October 2017 00:42 (six years ago) link
I will say that Tical has suffered most on relistening, the production feels notably weaker than the other "first four" releases. I don't mind muddiness generally, but it's just not that interesting and it starts to feel like a slog to me. And I don't think they had figured out that they should pack their solo albums with guest appearances, that a record can still project a singular vision without one rapper providing almost every verse
― intheblanks, Sunday, 15 October 2017 00:49 (six years ago) link
"not *as* interesting" is what I meant in that second sentence there; it's still a very good record
― intheblanks, Sunday, 15 October 2017 00:50 (six years ago) link
just sent my ballot! Hopefully others are also coming through this weekend.
― intheblanks, Sunday, 15 October 2017 23:25 (six years ago) link
only have 9 ballots so far. may need to extend a week and see if we can do some recruiting?
― Spottie, Monday, 16 October 2017 02:41 (six years ago) link
I can throw something together I should think, it'll be fairly canon though...
― André Ryu (Neil S), Monday, 16 October 2017 06:25 (six years ago) link
sorry life got in the way. a wee extension would be good if poss
― calumerio, Monday, 16 October 2017 09:01 (six years ago) link
yeah i think we have to. can a mod change the wording to 'deadline extended to Oct. 22' please?
i think we need a minimum of 15 but would like to get 20+
whos missing? flopson, bradnelson, marcos, Frederik B, forks, billstevejim, rogermexico (there was one that was sent and not sure from which user). Anyone else?
― Spottie, Monday, 16 October 2017 17:31 (six years ago) link