NPR's 150 Albums Made by Women

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Ann Powers essay

I can't argue with #1. I can argue with Pretenders scoring so relatively low on the list, but I sense a certain anti-canonical, millennial-pandering slant to this list (which #1 defies, yes). Adele?! Britney?!? Should I just be grateful that Lana Del Rey didn't make the cut?

Anyway, I like the idea behind this list, and I will probably end up checking out a few things based on it, but argue and carp and teeth-gnash away.

some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Monday, 24 July 2017 14:51 (one year ago) Permalink

I'm just reminded of the existence of this:
http://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2011/10/11/141232995/youve-never-heard-joni-mitchells-blue

MarkoP, Monday, 24 July 2017 14:58 (one year ago) Permalink

Looking forward to a bunch of dudes criticizing the list.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 15:41 (one year ago) Permalink

Looking forward to a bunch of dudes criticizing the list.

I was mostly looking forward to a bunch of dudes asserting that other dudes shouldn't criticize the list, and hooray, it's happened twice already!

grawlix (unperson), Monday, 24 July 2017 15:45 (one year ago) Permalink

I said nothing about making the list impervious to criticism, but hooray for joining the chat, unperson.

At any rate: Oumou Sangare made it.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 15:47 (one year ago) Permalink

Would have been nice to see Carla Bley, Doro Pesch (or anyone from the metal world), Maja Ratkje, and Pharmakon. And making it less performer-focused would have made room for Anna Thorvaldsdottir, among many other female composers.

grawlix (unperson), Monday, 24 July 2017 15:56 (one year ago) Permalink

Spiceworld crushes Spice

chr1sb3singer, Monday, 24 July 2017 16:05 (one year ago) Permalink

Why start it in 1964? You're disqualifying great albums from Peggy Lee, Ella's Cole Porter record, Yma Sumac and on and on

Josefa, Monday, 24 July 2017 16:32 (one year ago) Permalink

Many many beloved albums on there, but my efforts to crack Joni Mitchell fail every time.

I thought it was odd to choose Nico's Chelsea Girl rather than one of her own songwriting efforts, as the list doesn't shy away from avant work, and Marble Index and Desert Shore seem better regarded in general. Certainly more breakthrough.

Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Monday, 24 July 2017 16:45 (one year ago) Permalink

I like the choices for Buffy Sainte-Marie, Celia Cruz, Etta James. The '78 collab with Tito Puente wouldn't be my choice for La Lupe, but the write-up makes me want to relisten to it.

Josefa, Monday, 24 July 2017 17:11 (one year ago) Permalink

xp Agreed on Nico. I'm missing Minnie Riperton, Judee Sill, Vashti Bunyan, Linda Perhacs.

Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 24 July 2017 17:34 (one year ago) Permalink

glad to see Reba in there, even though Have I Got A Deal For You would've been a vastly superior pick imo

interesting exclusion of Joan Baez & Judy Collins, not that I'm a fan but they were both hugely popular in their day. Was Grace Slick in there? surely she defined and woman-ized the otherwise-male Jefferson Airplane in much the same way Kim Gordon did Sonic Youth?

busy bee starski (m coleman), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:01 (one year ago) Permalink

yay la lupe is on this list!
i can't bring myself to look at the whole thing rn but i am glad she is on there

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:04 (one year ago) Permalink

The singers and bands are mostly great choices, but the ranking and album choices at times are very peculiar, which is a testament of the subjective quality to compiling a music list.

I have to echo Josefa in that 1964 as a start date seems too arbitrary. Yma Sumac really does deserve to be on this list, as NPR seems to want to have a representative from all parts of the globe.

With that in mind, I can't help but sense some misjudgment in including Astrud Gilberto, whose scope of songs released were limited but with maybe one or two major hit, but deny Elis Regina entry, who in my opinion is vastly superior.

As such, the extent of knowledge of niche styles by its compilers seem to be limited, as is shown by serious omissions of folk singer-songwriters Judee Sill and Vashti Bunyan, as Le Bateau Ivre mentioned.

I would have loved to see inclusion of a fado singer, since they barely touch the surface of it by ranking Astrud Gilberto and her interpretation of saudade.

the sound of space, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:07 (one year ago) Permalink

Elis Regina, hell yeah. And yes, kind of weird no Grace Slick. (Joan Baez is on there for Diamonds and Rust).

My personal list would have Dalida on it and some Italian singers like Mina and Ornella Vanoni.

Josefa, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:13 (one year ago) Permalink

ok i looked
that is not my favorite la lupe album by a longshot & tito puente booted her out of the band iirc (acc to the documentary, when she sang "me botó" over and over?)
kinda weird choice but i am glad she is on there
list seems pretty good so far to me -- have glanced through 150-101
full of inspiration for youngs <3

the extent of knowledge of niche styles by its compilers seem to be limited
seems otm but good for beginners to browse

is shirley collins in there somewhere? i hope?

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:13 (one year ago) Permalink

No Grouper = list is illegitimate

flappy bird, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:22 (one year ago) Permalink

It's a good list, but no Gal Costa? :(

Frederik B, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:25 (one year ago) Permalink

Why start it in 1964? You're disqualifying great albums from Peggy Lee, Ella's Cole Porter record, Yma Sumac and on and on

― Josefa, Monday, July 24, 2017 12:32 PM (one hour ago)

agreed! and I know it's silly to criticize a greatest albums list for being too album-centric, but 60s pop acts like The Ronettes and The Shangri-Las and The Supremes would have been better represented by hits collections than by the (admittedly decent) albums they selected

90 miles an hour (down a dead end thread) (unregistered), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:29 (one year ago) Permalink

As these things go--I've done enough of them myself--I think the mix is okay. Missing for me (the whole point in responding to a list is to say what you think is missing...): a Dionne Warwick compilation, a Shirelles compilation (they may miss the cut-off; their first greatest hits LP came out in '63), the Jefferson Airplane, Fairport Convention (are they on there? I might have missed them), and Liliput. I don't know how to quantify whether they "relied on women's creativity for their spark," but my four favourite bands this century are all missing: Wussy, Imperial Teen, Magnetic Fields, and Yo La Tengo. Same thing with Chic, not sure if they were deemed female enough. (A friend pointed out the scarcity of disco in general; I'm sure the counter would be that it was a singles genre.)

clemenza, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:29 (one year ago) Permalink

no shirley, oh well
i made it to the end -- this is a total hit parade! it's not a niche fan's list, it's the everybody list.

weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:33 (one year ago) Permalink

Clemenza, now that you mention Fairport Convention, a glaring omission is Sandy Denny.

the sound of space, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:38 (one year ago) Permalink

no Hazel Dickens, no credibility (true of just about every list ever made)

90 miles an hour (down a dead end thread) (unregistered), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:39 (one year ago) Permalink

can someone just post the list plz

Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:40 (one year ago) Permalink

No Mary Lou Williams, no Scrawl, no Crystalized Movements, no Marilyn Crispell...

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:44 (one year ago) Permalink

(xpost) It's click-through and chopped up into 15 x 10 screens--difficult to post unless you spend some time cutting, pasting, and cutting.

clemenza, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:47 (one year ago) Permalink

No Mary Lou Williams

this was my immediate thought

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:48 (one year ago) Permalink

this is a total hit parade! it's not a niche fan's list, it's the everybody list

I love the sound of that!

clemenza, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:48 (one year ago) Permalink

I don't! I hate everybody!

90 miles an hour (down a dead end thread) (unregistered), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:51 (one year ago) Permalink

150. The Roches
The Roches (Warner Bros., 1979)

149. Alicia Keys
Songs In A Minor (J Records, 2001)

148. Terri Lyne Carrington
The Mosaic Project (Concord Jazz, 2011)

147. Meredith Monk
Dolmen Music (ECM, 1981)

146. Patty Griffin
Flaming Red (A&M, 1998)

145. Oumou Sangare
Moussolou (Women) (Kartell/World Circuit, 1989)

144. The Breeders
Last Splash (4AD/Elektra, 1993)

143. Robyn
Body Talk (Konichiwa Records, 2010)

142. Iris DeMent
My Life (Warner Bros., 1993)

141. Joanna Newsom
Ys (Drag City, 2006)

140. Norah Jones
Come Away with Me (Blue Note, 2002)

139. The Bangles
All Over the Place (Columbia, 1984)

138. Cocteau Twins
Heaven or Las Vegas (4AD, 1990)

137. Ofra Haza
50 Gates Of Wisdom (Yemenite Songs) (Shanachie, 1987)

136. Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band
Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band (Apple Records, 1970)

135. The B-52's
The B-52's (Warner Bros., 1979)

134. Solange
A Seat at the Table (Saint/Columbia 2016)

133. Fanny
Fanny Hill (Reprise, 1972)

132. Shelby Lynne
I Am Shelby Lynne (Island/Mercury, 2000)

131. Shirley Horn
I Thought About You — Live At Vine St. (Verve Records, 1987)

130. Teena Marie
Wild and Peaceful (Motown Records, 1979)

129. Marianne Faithfull
Broken English (Island, 1979)

128. Pauline Oliveros, Stuart Dempster, Panaiotis
Deep Listening (New Albion, 1989)

127. Sonic Youth
Sister (SST, 1987)

126. The Carpenters
A Song for You (A&M Records, 1972)

125. Fiona Apple
Tidal (Work Group/Clean Slate/Columbia, 1996)

124. Carly Simon
No Secrets (Elektra, 1972)

123. Cris Williamson
The Changer and the Changed: A Record of the Times (Olivia Records, 1975)

122. Siouxsie and the Banshees
The Scream (Polydor, 1978)

121. Joni Mitchell
Hejira (Asylum, 1976)

120. Anita Baker
Rapture (Elektra, 1986)

119. The Slits
Cut (Island Records, 1979)

118. Chaka Khan
I Feel for You (Warner Bros., 1984)

117. Joan Jett
I Love Rock 'n' Roll (Boardwalk, 1981)

116. Macy Gray
On How Life Is (Epic, 1999)

115. La Lupe & Tito Puente
La Pareja (Fania/Tico Records, 1978)

114. Reba McEntire
Rumor Has It (MCA, 1990)

113. Aretha Franklin
Young, Gifted and Black (Atlantic Records, 1972)

112. Mercedes Sosa
Mercedes Sosa en Argentina (Universal Distribution/Philips, 1982)

111. Diamanda Galás
The Litanies of Satan (Y, 1982)

110. Miranda Lambert
Platinum (RCA Nashville, 2014)

109. Against Me!
Transgender Dysphoria Blues (Total Treble, 2014)

108. Gladys Knight and the Pips
Imagination (Buddah Records, 1973)

107. The Shangri-Las
Leader of the Pack (Red Bird Records, 1965)

106. No Doubt
Tragic Kingdom (Interscope, 1995)

105. Sheila E.
The Glamorous Life (Warner Bros., 1984)

104. ESG
Come Away With ESG (99 Records, 1983)

103. Umm Kulthum
Enta Omri (You Are My Life) (Sono, 1964)

102. Alabama Shakes
Sound & Color (ATO, 2015)

101. Eurythmics
Touch (RCA, 1983)

100. Buffy Sainte-Marie
It's My Way! (Vanguard Records, 1964)

99. Taylor Swift
Fearless (Big Machine Records, 2008)

98. Bikini Kill
Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah (Kill Rock Stars, 1993)

97. Mariah Carey
Daydream (Columbia Records, 1995)

96. Lil' Kim
Hard Core (Big Beat/Undeas Recordings, 1996)

95. Shakira
¿Dónde Están los Ladrones? (Sony, 1998)

94. Sheryl Crow
Tuesday Night Music Club (A&M, 1993)

93. Britney Spears
...Baby One More Time (Jive Records, 1999)

92. Meshell Ndegeocello
Peace Beyond Passion (Maverick, 1996)

91. Alison Krauss And Union Station
New Favorite (Rounder, 2001)

90. Barbra Streisand
Funny Girl, Broadway Cast Album (Capitol Records, 1964)

89. Shania Twain
Come On Over (Mercury Records, 1997)

88. k. d. lang
Ingénue (Sire, 1992)

87. X
Los Angeles (Slash/Rhino, 1980)

86. Alice Coltrane
Journey in Satchidananda (GRP/Impulse!, 1971)

85. Joan Baez
Diamonds & Rust (A&M, 1975)

84. Roberta Flack
First Take (Atlantic, 1969)

83. Bobbie Gentry
Ode To Billie Joe (Capitol Records, 1967)

82. Laura Nyro
New York Tendaberry (Columbia, 1969)

81. Sleater-Kinney
Dig Me Out (Kill Rock Stars, 1997)

80. Laurie Anderson
Big Science (Warner Bros., 1982)

79. Portishead
Dummy (Go! Beat, 1994)

78. The Bulgarian State Radio & Television Choir
Le Mystère Des Voix Bulgares (Nonesuch, 1987)

77. Aaliyah
Aaliyah (Blackground/Virgin America 2001)

76. Tammy Wynette
Stand By Your Man (Epic, 1969)

75. Donna Summer
Bad Girls (Casablanca, 1979)

74. The Raincoats
The Raincoats (Rough Trade, 1979)

73. Astrud Gilberto
The Astrud Gilberto Album(Verve Records, 1965)

72. The Runaways
The Runaways (Mercury, 1976)

71. Salt-N-Pepa
Blacks' Magic (London, 1990)

70. Stevie Nicks
Bella Donna (Modern, 1981)

69. Cyndi Lauper
She's So Unusual (Portrait/Sony 1983)

68. Rosanne Cash
King's Record Shop (Columbia, 1987)

67. Sinead O'Connor
I Do Not Want What I Haven't Got (Chrysalis Records, 1990)

66. Miriam Makeba
Pata Pata (Reprise, 1967)

65. Cassandra Wilson
Blue Light 'Til Dawn (Blue Note, 1993)

64. Spice Girls
Spice (Virgin, 1996)

63. Madonna
Like a Virgin (Sire, 1984)

62. Dixie Chicks
Wide Open Spaces (BMG/Sony, 1998)

61. Destiny's Child
The Writing's on the Wall (Columbia, 1999)

60. The Pretenders
Pretenders (Sire, 1980)

59. Indigo Girls
Indigo Girls (Epic, 1989)

58. Labelle
Nightbirds (Epic, 1974)

57. Mary J. Blige
What's the 411? (Uptown/MCA, 1992)

56. X-Ray Spex
Germfree Adolescents (EMI, 1978)

55. The Go-Gos
Beauty And The Beat (I.R.S., 1981)

54. Nico
Chelsea Girl (Verve, 1967)

53. Linda Ronstadt
Heart Like A Wheel (Capitol, 1974)

52. Bonnie Raitt
Nick Of Time (Capitol/EMI, 1989)

51. Sarah Vaughan
Sassy Swings Again (Mercury, 1967)

50. Hole
Live Through This (DGC, 1994)

49. Rickie Lee Jones
Pirates (Warner Bros., 1981)

48. Etta James
Rocks The House (Argo, 1964)

47. Celia Cruz
Son con Guaguanco (Emusica/Fania, 1966)

46. Emmylou Harris
Wrecking Ball (Elektra, 1995)

45. Dusty Springfield
Dusty in Memphis (Atlantic, 1969)

44. Heart
Dreamboat Annie (Mushroom, 1976)

43. M.I.A.
Kala (XL/Interscope, 2007)

42. Ella Fitzgerald
Ella Fitzgerald Sings the Johnny Mercer Song Book (Verve, 1964)

41. Tracy Chapman
Tracy Chapman (Elektra, 1988)

40. The Staple Singers
Be Altitude: Respect Yourself (Stax, 1972)

39. Gillian Welch
Time (The Revelator) (Acony Records, 2001)

38. Odetta
It's a Mighty World (RCA Victor, 1964)

37. Kate Bush
Hounds Of Love (EMI, 1985)

36. Grace Jones
Nightclubbing (Island Records, 1981)

35. Blondie
Parallel Lines (Chrysalis, 1978)

34. Tina Turner
Private Dancer (Capitol, 1984)

33. Queen Latifah
All Hail The Queen (Tommy Boy, 1989)

32. Björk
Post (Elektra, 1995)

31. Liz Phair
Exile In Guyville (Capitol/EMI/Matador, 1993)

30. Adele
21 (Columbia/XL, 2011)

29. Alanis Morissette
Jagged Little Pill (Maverick, 1995)

28. Nina Simone
Nina Simone Sings the Blues (RCA Victor, 1967)

27. Tori Amos
Little Earthquakes (Atlantic, 1992)

26. TLC
CrazySexyCool (LaFace, 1994)

25. Ani Difranco
Little Plastic Castle (Righteous Babe Records, 1998)

24. Loretta Lynn
Coal Miner's Daughter (Decca, 1970)

23. Aretha Franklin
Amazing Grace (Atlantic, 1972)

22. Sade
Diamond Life (Sony, 1984)

21. PJ Harvey
Rid Of Me (Island Records, 1993)

20. The Ronettes
Presenting the Fabulous Ronettes Featuring Veronica (Philles Records, 1964)

19. Selena
Amor Prohibido (EMI Latin, 1994)

18. Lucinda Williams
Car Wheels On A Gravel Road (Mercury, 1998)

17. Janet Jackson
Control (A&M, 1986)

16. Fleetwood Mac
Rumours (Warner Bros., 1977)

15. Diana Ross and the Supremes
Where Did Our Love Go (Motown, 1964)

14. Whitney Houston
Whitney Houston (Arista, 1985)

13. Madonna
Like a Prayer (Sire, 1989)

12. Erykah Badu
Baduizm (Universal, 1997)

11. Dolly Parton
Coat Of Many Colors (RCA Records, 1971)

10. Carole King
Tapestry (Ode, 1971)

9. Amy Winehouse
Back To Black (Island, 2006)

8. Janis Joplin
Pearl (Columbia, 1971)

7. Patti Smith
Horses (Arista, 1975)

6. Beyoncé
Lemonade (Parkwood/Columbia, 2016)

5. Missy Elliott
Supa Dupa Fly (The Goldmind/Elektra, 1997)

4. Aretha Franklin
I Never Loved a Man The Way I Loved You (Atlantic, 1967)

3. Nina Simone
I Put A Spell on You (Philips, 1965)

2. Lauryn Hill
The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (Ruffhouse/Columbia, 1998)

1. Joni Mitchell
Blue (Reprise, 1971)

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 24 July 2017 19:18 (one year ago) Permalink

Most annoying omission, for me: Kate and Anna McGarrigle

Surprised/not surprised to see how quickly Aimee Mann fell out of fashion, too (especially for the NPR crowd).

And I don't want to gripe about every millennial-appealing inclusion, but the relatively high ranking of Amy Winehouse, Adele and even Lemonade is premature.

some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Monday, 24 July 2017 19:44 (one year ago) Permalink

Let me add, subjectively, the first Mamas and the Papas LP. Even boring old white guy Greil Marcus wrote them out of history in the intro to the Stranded discography, but that'd be on my list.

clemenza, Monday, 24 July 2017 19:49 (one year ago) Permalink

Anne Power's essay has an insight I'd felt but never been able to articulate:

The Beatles did something important historically. Aretha Franklin did too, but she's more often celebrated as a miracle. (Mea culpa: I've done the same thing within my critical writing, once basing an essay about Franklin around the opening line, "She manifests.")

Because the notion that women "be" still influences the way we think about female artists, they've mostly been canonized as personalities or essences, not makers of things.

I think there's still a good amount of that hanging around the mystique of Karen Dalton, Vashti Bunyan, Judee Sill, Denny and other dark, discouraged folkies who've gotten new recognition in the last 20 years or so, even though it's after 90s pop culture got more used to the idea of women as makers of things. Like, the doomed folkie mystique also applies to Nick Drake, Tim Hardin, Basho, Fahey, but they get talked about as creators as much as tragic figures. Composers even, with the last two.

Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Monday, 24 July 2017 19:50 (one year ago) Permalink

I think Lemonade placing so high is premature but, in terms of it being the piece where Beyoncé cemented her grasp on distilling a bunch of disparate songs into a singular artistic vision, I don't begrudge its presence on the list, particularly when considered in the context of the visual album and how the music and accompanying visuals combine into a coherent, compelling narrative that has had people buzzing like crazy since it debuted. (It also helps that she has settled into a groove vocally that matches her; she's grown as a practitioner of the art of singing at a pace commensurate with her growth as an auteur.)

this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink

32. Björk
Post (Elektra, 1995)

The go-to for anyone who doesn't actually rate Björk.

Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:06 (one year ago) Permalink

at first i thought that it was a one-work-per-artist list but it's not, which makes the representative pick for certain artists all the more puzzling. like, i owned and listened to ...baby one more time as a 10-year-old -- but it's just not a good album. it is the embodiment of the good-to-incredible singles + execrable filler formula. i listened to it a million times, but almost every time i would listen to the first three tracks (all singles), skip "soda pop", then restart after "born to make you happy" (which wasn't a single in the us, but was obviously better than anything after it on the tracklisting).

like, i get that we wanna convey how influential britney was, both in general and in that moment in time, but it wasn't because this was a great album. most actual britney spears fans consider it one of her worst.

lists of albums are boring and regressive but otherwise i actually thought this was pretty good. will read the essay later.

dyl, Monday, 24 July 2017 20:07 (one year ago) Permalink

beyoncé's self-titled is as good as or better than lemonade :\

dyl, Monday, 24 July 2017 20:08 (one year ago) Permalink

Looks like it was pooled nominations, then a winnowing poll, a la ILM.

Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:11 (one year ago) Permalink

beyoncé's 4 is as good as or better than self-titled or lemonade :\

― dyl, Monday, July 24, 2017 1:08 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fixed

down that brown path (Spottie), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:11 (one year ago) Permalink

^^^^ otm

Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:12 (one year ago) Permalink

Because the notion that women "be" still influences the way we think about female artists, they've mostly been canonized as personalities or essences, not makers of things.

And yet still no room for Carla Bley on the list. And if you're gonna pick just one trans person (Against Me! - really?), how about Wendy Carlos? Programming analog synths in the 70s > writing 4/4 punk rock songs.

grawlix (unperson), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:18 (one year ago) Permalink

The go-to for anyone who doesn't actually rate Björk.

I disagree vehemently. There are strong arguments as to why any of Post, Homogenic, or Vespertine would be Bjork's best album and it does her career no disservice to pick any of them for a list like this. It would be even better if both Post and Homogenic appeared, IMO.

beyoncé's self-titled is as good as or better than lemonade :\

The difference between s/t and Lemonade is the story; that is what (IMO) elevates Lemonade, particularly in the context of how many people Beyonce collaborated with across both music and video to create it.

beyoncé's 4 is as good as or better than self-titled or lemonade :\

4 is a decent-enough album but I've been listening to it a lot the past few days and the only songs on it where Beyonce doesn't sound flat-out atrocious are "Countdown", "End of Time", and "Love On Top". The rest of the time, she's a smaller-voiced singer trying to sing huge, sort of like the entirety of Ashanti's career, and it really brings down the album overall.

this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:20 (one year ago) Permalink

OTM. I've cooled on 4, or, rather less prepared to apologize for the crap songs.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:21 (one year ago) Permalink

Basically, Hollertronix Beyonce is the worst Beyonce and she spent most of her career prior to the s/t in that mode, which is partially why the s/t hits like a truck and why I wouldn't actually have been mad if it had been on this list instead of Lemonade.

this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:24 (one year ago) Permalink

(I will say that 4 is the first time that sustained Hollertronix Beyonce ever worked for me in the context of an entire album, which is what makes it notable in her solo catalog and why I bought it in the first place, but she's come a loooooooong way as a performer since then.)

this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:25 (one year ago) Permalink

DJP, stop being OTM. I'm getting tired of it.

the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:33 (one year ago) Permalink

btw i always include the bonus tracks when I refer to 4.

tbh i wouldve been fine with all three placing.

down that brown path (Spottie), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:34 (one year ago) Permalink

Agree that Beyonce needed to be on here. I'm less partial about which album (every one named has great songs; I probably prefer 4 myself, overall), but I just thought that Lemonade placing that high was a little too much like OK Computer topping that Q poll six months after it's release. She's still at that point in her career, though, where each new album can plausibly be called her greatest. We won't know what her best work is for decades yet.

I'm OK with Post, which probably says the exact thing about me that Eric suspects it does. I'm only surprised because I thought Homogenic had overtaken it in many people's affections by now (again, I have no agenda here, as I think both albums are great).

I'm clearly allergic to Britney, but I think I would have eye-rolled less hard if they had gone with one of her clubbier albums (In The Zone, Circus, whatever) rather than the debut. As it stands, NPR now has to live with the fact that they included an album that contains a song called "Email My Heart" on a list of best albums of all time.

some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:48 (one year ago) Permalink

Lists and lists so there will always be head scratchers on either side of the line, but surprised to see there's no McGarrigles, and no Sandy Denny. But especially no My Bloody Valentine.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 July 2017 21:18 (one year ago) Permalink

(Lists are lists, that should lead.)

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 July 2017 21:18 (one year ago) Permalink

no wonder the US is a divided country when this is a liberal/progressive take on this list

― niels, Thursday, August 2, 2018 1:11 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the list unquestionably, IMO, and drastically underrates R&B

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:57 (two months ago) Permalink

like i haven't checked but just as an example did any keyshia cole songs make it

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 2 August 2018 12:01 (two months ago) Permalink

most of these seem at least informed by rnb imo:

19. Beyoncé, "Formation" (2016)
15. Nicki Minaj, "Super Bass" (2010)
12. Solange, "Cranes In The Sky" (2016)
11. Janelle Monáe (ft. Big Boi), "Tightrope" (2010)
8. Alicia Keys, "Fallin'" (2001)
7. Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings, "100 Days, 100 Nights" (2007)
6. Lorde, "Royals" (2013)
4. Amy Winehouse, "Back To Black" (2006)
3. Beyoncé, "Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It)" (2008)
1. M.I.A., "Paper Planes" (2007)

anyway, surely some genres/artists are represented as always, just find it... I dunno what word to use... remarkable maybe, that a liberal/progressive reaction to National Radio's attempt at challenging a male dominated canon would be calling it neo liberalist bullshit

I'm not going to spend time hatereading reddit comments about the list, but I'm sure a lot of people find the very concept of a list with no men offensive

niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 12:21 (two months ago) Permalink

underrepresented*

niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 12:22 (two months ago) Permalink

you show those reddit men you just imagined, niels

5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:30 (two months ago) Permalink

you don't think they exist?

niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:42 (two months ago) Permalink

What type of brain disease would I need where I get mad at hypothetical Reddit posts that I invent in my head

5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:53 (two months ago) Permalink

haha that's a bit rich but I gather you think I'm insane for imagining how a list like this would be received in certain forums?

niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:55 (two months ago) Permalink

...yes?

5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:56 (two months ago) Permalink

most of these seem at least informed by rnb imo:

19. Beyoncé, "Formation" (2016)
15. Nicki Minaj, "Super Bass" (2010)
12. Solange, "Cranes In The Sky" (2016)
11. Janelle Monáe (ft. Big Boi), "Tightrope" (2010)
8. Alicia Keys, "Fallin'" (2001)
7. Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings, "100 Days, 100 Nights" (2007)
6. Lorde, "Royals" (2013)
4. Amy Winehouse, "Back To Black" (2006)
3. Beyoncé, "Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It)" (2008)
1. M.I.A., "Paper Planes" (2007)

Lmfaoooooooooooooooo

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:06 (two months ago) Permalink

(from last year's list; this year's list doesn't seem to have as much commentary but https://www.reddit.com/r/indieheads/comments/93253b/npr_list_the_200_greatest_songs_by_21st_century/)

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:07 (two months ago) Permalink

yeah I was just about to link that but the too reddit didn't read is that the list was received basically how it was received here; T_D types generally don't follow music to this degree

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:10 (two months ago) Permalink

It's an interesting list, but the ranking order is all over the place. When you have stuff like Britney Spears' ...Baby One More Time (which aside from the singles is pretty dire, and one of her worst albums honestly) higher than Young, Gifted and Black by Aretha Franklin, your list can't be all that great.

Still, it's refreshing because most other best of albums lists are indeed very male dominated, and even rock-oriented. Whereas there seems to be a lot of diversity in this list.

Wow, the top voted Reddit comment. These absolute savages. These fucking monsters.

5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:12 (two months ago) Permalink

(there's also a /mu/ thread apparently but I'm not clicking it at work)

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:15 (two months ago) Permalink

/mu/ is not talking about this right now

But you can read these threads:

Where's theneedledrop?: Why are Fantano's scores still not appearing in the reception section of album articles in Wikipedia?

The only reason people think Birds in the Trap was bad is because of Fantano's opinion. If he gave it a good score everyone on reddit and /mu/ would think it was good. Fuck Anthony Fantano. And fuck mindless drones. Astroworld is going to be AOTY.

He everyone, VIEWSTHONY WHORETANO here, the internet's most desperate music nerd. And it's time for a review of another imexplicably positive review of a terrible SoundCloud rap album because that's what my underaged fanbase wants to hear.

Hi my name is Frank Zappa and my musuic is garbage

Why are there so many pseuds and contrarians on this board? Do they think they're above others for having an inferior taste in music? Help me out here, /mu/.

Post based and redpilled RYM reviews

5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:28 (two months ago) Permalink

they were as of two days ago https://i.imgur.com/seSvPqF.png

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:32 (two months ago) Permalink

(google search link because, again, I'm not clicking this at work, so for all I know it could be fawningly positive)

aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:33 (two months ago) Permalink

it's not

5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:36 (two months ago) Permalink

but this is a good time as ever to guess which ILXors have soy face

5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:41 (two months ago) Permalink

happy to hear the reddit thread is not bad

still think it's v weird to describe this list as neo liberal

niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 15:13 (two months ago) Permalink

also d40 what's the joke pls

niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 15:14 (two months ago) Permalink

xpost it is “weird” and makes zero sense but I would ignore it

i’m still stanning (morrisp), Thursday, 2 August 2018 15:21 (two months ago) Permalink

discussion piece between 2 of the writer contributors to the list(intro to it below)

As the list took shape, it became impossible not to notice that the songs in this canon share a common backbone. Many of the songs, and more namely the song's creators, owe their catchy, joyous, triumphant, sexy, strong, aching, resilient ethos to black, Latin and Afro Caribbean musical roots. From streaming to radio, the influence of Latin, Caribbean and R&B music is apparent across all modern genres in the new millennium.

To untangle this common thread, NPR Music's Stefanie Fernández and Sidney Madden charted the work of women of color on this list and examined the ways agency and identity have become central in breaking down pop music's barriers.

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/01/634184379/reclaiming-the-rhyme-how-black-women-and-latinas-have-reshaped-pop-music

curmudgeon, Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:02 (two months ago) Permalink

They followed in the footsteps of those who could not choose: Selena Quintanilla, Gloria Estefan, Jenni Rivera, Celia Cruz, and so many others.

FTR, I interviewed Jenni Rivera once and she said she would never want to record in English. That if she ever did, it would be an album of old doo-wop songs and love ballads like you'd hear on Art Laboe's radio show, but she had zero interest in crossing over to a pop audience.

grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:27 (two months ago) Permalink

Also, both these women are bad, clumsy writers who really could have used an editor to teach them how not to sound like marketing executives.

grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:30 (two months ago) Permalink

and with that

https://i.imgur.com/zGHQb4O.gif?2

5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:50 (two months ago) Permalink

What type of brain disease would I need where I get mad at hypothetical Reddit posts that I invent in my head

probably a very similar one to the sort that would make you get mad at hypothetical ILX posters or movie viewers or readers or music listeners or bacon eaters that you invent in your head

16, 35, DCP, Go! (sic), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:58 (two months ago) Permalink

x-post to Unperson--Fernandez does not sound like a "marketing executive" here :

The mainstreaming and whitewashing of reggaeton, a genre born from working class black Panamanians (like La Atrevida) in the late 1980s and pioneered in the 1990s by listmaker Ivy Queen (No. 60 with "Quiero Bailar"), by white or light-skinned Latin pop artists has facilitated the pop transformation of Afro-Caribbean genres to the point where they are barely recognizable. In the early 2000s, genres shaped and fundamentally conceived from poverty and racism like reggaeton and soca were still dismissed as classless and vulgar; the vestiges of this thinking can still be seen in the perceived vulgarity of Latin trap artists like Bad Bunny and the new wave of reguetoneras like Karol G, Natti Natasha and Anitta who seem to have been left behind by the success of their peers more palatable to the American market.

She also acknowledges that "There are no reggae or soca songs on the list..."

curmudgeon, Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:16 (two months ago) Permalink

Fine, but it's still bad and clumsy writing, based on phony premises, starting (in the excerpt you quoted) with the fact that Ivy Queen is herself light-skinned. We could also talk about the fact that Gloria Estefan had multiple Top 40 English-language hits, and she and her husband Emilio managed Shakira's move into pop. These writers are painting a portrait of victimization and marginalization that just doesn't match the facts. I mean, when you're gonna call Gloria fucking Estefan someone who couldn't choose her own career moves, you really need to stop and rethink. And you know this stuff, probably even better than I do.

grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:40 (two months ago) Permalink

also d40 what's the joke pls

― niels, Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:14 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the idea that that selection somehow adequately represents or even comprehends R&B's musical contributions this decade is laughable

also you missed Jazmine Sullivan, a rare counterexample to what i'm actually talking about

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:58 (two months ago) Permalink

I didn't say that selection "adequately represents" 21st century R&B

you wrote that "the list unquestionably, IMO, and drastically underrates R&B" and I wanted to make the point that the top 20 was full of R&B-informed songs (I didn't "miss" Sullivan, she's at #137 and I was quoting the top 20)

but I'm no expert on contemporary R&B would love to see your list of 20 representative tracks

niels, Friday, 3 August 2018 06:35 (two months ago) Permalink

Ok, the idea that it’s noteworthy a lot of music would be “r&b-informed” is basically useless—pop music as a whole is r&b infomed

But this canon clearly pushes against the r&b canon, or treats it w oblivious disdain & there’s no real analysis of what’s lost or missing

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 3 August 2018 08:59 (two months ago) Permalink

that was indeed carefully phrased, I'd say Sharon Jones and Amy Winehouse is straight up (revivalist) rhythm and blues, stuff like Solange, Beyoncé and Alicia Keys comfortably contemporary R&B

list has Ciara, King, Jhene Aiko, Tweet, Jill Scott, Kali Uchis, India Arie, Blu Cantrell, Sza but maybe you feel it's missing Cassie, Dawn Richard, Kehlani, Kelela, Tinashe?

Anyway I'm really not looking for an argument here, I just thought the criticism seemed perhaps a bit out of proportion with the offensiveness of the list. I think it'd be great if you would share your idea for a 21st century female rnb canon, maybe there isn't really one?

niels, Friday, 3 August 2018 11:25 (two months ago) Permalink

One last time on my pet peeve--

She also acknowledges that "There are no reggae or soca songs on the list..."

Sorry Faye-Ann Lyons, you don't rate

plus no afropop/afrobeats (programmed beat African music) artists-- Sorry Yemi Alade, you don't rate.

curmudgeon, Friday, 3 August 2018 12:41 (two months ago) Permalink

Anyway I'm really not looking for an argument here, I just thought the criticism seemed perhaps a bit out of proportion with the offensiveness of the list. I think it'd be great if you would share your idea for a 21st century female rnb canon, maybe there isn't really one?

― niels, Friday, August 3, 2018 6:25 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i have to provide my own canon to argue this ignores large portions of the actual R&B canon?

how about destiny's child, brandy, missy, amerie, keyshia cole, mariah carey, mary j blige, erykah badu, aaliyah, keri hilson, jennifer hudson, janet, fantasia, teedra moses, ashanti ... im sure im missing people

the interpretation of "R&B" as portrayed by the list feels limited by critical acclaim & a lack of investment in / immersion in R&B discourse imo...saying "but kali uchis" is a strike against yr point. even your examples of who should have made it hews very close to crit-friendly singing fare (surprised you didn't say FKA twigs?) ignoring the post-church music soul/R&B wing in favor of the kind of stuff that appeals to critics & brits lol

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 3 August 2018 21:47 (two months ago) Permalink

im not counting their 'premiered in the 00s' excused since they break it arbitrarily & because the genre is literally driven by women in their 30s/40s consumer wise so it seems absurd

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 3 August 2018 21:48 (two months ago) Permalink

K Michelle too, surely? Or are you only talking 00’s here?

breastcrawl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:42 (two months ago) Permalink

Not looking at the list I know it’s missing Chavela Vargas and therefore not worth my time.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:50 (two months ago) Permalink

Kudos for Selena in the top 20 though if that’s the list that was copy pasted above.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:51 (two months ago) Permalink

Actually that list is pretty decent.

Still no Chavela Vargas makes me sad. I suspect it’s also missing many afro+latin singers but that could be a separate list.

✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:54 (two months ago) Permalink

1000% k Michelle

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:02 (two months ago) Permalink

Sevyn streeter

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:03 (two months ago) Permalink

“Motivation” by kelly Rowland >>>>

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:12 (two months ago) Permalink

Hell yeah

breastcrawl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:20 (two months ago) Permalink

amerie and fka both on the list

you don't have to argue anything, I accept that this list is missing a lot of rnb I just want to know what it is because I like the genre

motivation is definitely missing!

niels, Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:22 (two months ago) Permalink

I missed Amerie (I don’t consider Fka r&b)

Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:35 (two months ago) Permalink

reggaeton is easily more popular than any other form of latin music in america right now

dyl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 02:04 (two months ago) Permalink

it's great to see I'm With Her finally getting the credit they deserve.

billstevejim, Saturday, 4 August 2018 02:36 (two months ago) Permalink


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