ListAnn Powers essay
I can't argue with #1. I can argue with Pretenders scoring so relatively low on the list, but I sense a certain anti-canonical, millennial-pandering slant to this list (which #1 defies, yes). Adele?! Britney?!? Should I just be grateful that Lana Del Rey didn't make the cut?
Anyway, I like the idea behind this list, and I will probably end up checking out a few things based on it, but argue and carp and teeth-gnash away.
― some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Monday, 24 July 2017 14:51 (one year ago) Permalink
I'm just reminded of the existence of this:http://www.npr.org/sections/allsongs/2011/10/11/141232995/youve-never-heard-joni-mitchells-blue
― MarkoP, Monday, 24 July 2017 14:58 (one year ago) Permalink
Looking forward to a bunch of dudes criticizing the list.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 15:41 (one year ago) Permalink
I was mostly looking forward to a bunch of dudes asserting that other dudes shouldn't criticize the list, and hooray, it's happened twice already!
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 24 July 2017 15:45 (one year ago) Permalink
I said nothing about making the list impervious to criticism, but hooray for joining the chat, unperson.
At any rate: Oumou Sangare made it.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 15:47 (one year ago) Permalink
Would have been nice to see Carla Bley, Doro Pesch (or anyone from the metal world), Maja Ratkje, and Pharmakon. And making it less performer-focused would have made room for Anna Thorvaldsdottir, among many other female composers.
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 24 July 2017 15:56 (one year ago) Permalink
Spiceworld crushes Spice
― chr1sb3singer, Monday, 24 July 2017 16:05 (one year ago) Permalink
Why start it in 1964? You're disqualifying great albums from Peggy Lee, Ella's Cole Porter record, Yma Sumac and on and on
― Josefa, Monday, 24 July 2017 16:32 (one year ago) Permalink
Many many beloved albums on there, but my efforts to crack Joni Mitchell fail every time.
I thought it was odd to choose Nico's Chelsea Girl rather than one of her own songwriting efforts, as the list doesn't shy away from avant work, and Marble Index and Desert Shore seem better regarded in general. Certainly more breakthrough.
― Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Monday, 24 July 2017 16:45 (one year ago) Permalink
I like the choices for Buffy Sainte-Marie, Celia Cruz, Etta James. The '78 collab with Tito Puente wouldn't be my choice for La Lupe, but the write-up makes me want to relisten to it.
― Josefa, Monday, 24 July 2017 17:11 (one year ago) Permalink
xp Agreed on Nico. I'm missing Minnie Riperton, Judee Sill, Vashti Bunyan, Linda Perhacs.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 24 July 2017 17:34 (one year ago) Permalink
glad to see Reba in there, even though Have I Got A Deal For You would've been a vastly superior pick imo
interesting exclusion of Joan Baez & Judy Collins, not that I'm a fan but they were both hugely popular in their day. Was Grace Slick in there? surely she defined and woman-ized the otherwise-male Jefferson Airplane in much the same way Kim Gordon did Sonic Youth?
― busy bee starski (m coleman), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:01 (one year ago) Permalink
yay la lupe is on this list! i can't bring myself to look at the whole thing rn but i am glad she is on there
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:04 (one year ago) Permalink
The singers and bands are mostly great choices, but the ranking and album choices at times are very peculiar, which is a testament of the subjective quality to compiling a music list.
I have to echo Josefa in that 1964 as a start date seems too arbitrary. Yma Sumac really does deserve to be on this list, as NPR seems to want to have a representative from all parts of the globe.
With that in mind, I can't help but sense some misjudgment in including Astrud Gilberto, whose scope of songs released were limited but with maybe one or two major hit, but deny Elis Regina entry, who in my opinion is vastly superior.
As such, the extent of knowledge of niche styles by its compilers seem to be limited, as is shown by serious omissions of folk singer-songwriters Judee Sill and Vashti Bunyan, as Le Bateau Ivre mentioned.
I would have loved to see inclusion of a fado singer, since they barely touch the surface of it by ranking Astrud Gilberto and her interpretation of saudade.
― the sound of space, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:07 (one year ago) Permalink
Elis Regina, hell yeah. And yes, kind of weird no Grace Slick. (Joan Baez is on there for Diamonds and Rust).
My personal list would have Dalida on it and some Italian singers like Mina and Ornella Vanoni.
― Josefa, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:13 (one year ago) Permalink
ok i lookedthat is not my favorite la lupe album by a longshot & tito puente booted her out of the band iirc (acc to the documentary, when she sang "me botó" over and over?) kinda weird choice but i am glad she is on therelist seems pretty good so far to me -- have glanced through 150-101full of inspiration for youngs <3
the extent of knowledge of niche styles by its compilers seem to be limitedseems otm but good for beginners to browse
is shirley collins in there somewhere? i hope?
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:13 (one year ago) Permalink
No Grouper = list is illegitimate
― flappy bird, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:22 (one year ago) Permalink
It's a good list, but no Gal Costa? :(
― Frederik B, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:25 (one year ago) Permalink
― Josefa, Monday, July 24, 2017 12:32 PM (one hour ago)
agreed! and I know it's silly to criticize a greatest albums list for being too album-centric, but 60s pop acts like The Ronettes and The Shangri-Las and The Supremes would have been better represented by hits collections than by the (admittedly decent) albums they selected
― 90 miles an hour (down a dead end thread) (unregistered), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:29 (one year ago) Permalink
As these things go--I've done enough of them myself--I think the mix is okay. Missing for me (the whole point in responding to a list is to say what you think is missing...): a Dionne Warwick compilation, a Shirelles compilation (they may miss the cut-off; their first greatest hits LP came out in '63), the Jefferson Airplane, Fairport Convention (are they on there? I might have missed them), and Liliput. I don't know how to quantify whether they "relied on women's creativity for their spark," but my four favourite bands this century are all missing: Wussy, Imperial Teen, Magnetic Fields, and Yo La Tengo. Same thing with Chic, not sure if they were deemed female enough. (A friend pointed out the scarcity of disco in general; I'm sure the counter would be that it was a singles genre.)
― clemenza, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:29 (one year ago) Permalink
no shirley, oh welli made it to the end -- this is a total hit parade! it's not a niche fan's list, it's the everybody list.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:33 (one year ago) Permalink
Clemenza, now that you mention Fairport Convention, a glaring omission is Sandy Denny.
― the sound of space, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:38 (one year ago) Permalink
no Hazel Dickens, no credibility (true of just about every list ever made)
― 90 miles an hour (down a dead end thread) (unregistered), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:39 (one year ago) Permalink
can someone just post the list plz
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:40 (one year ago) Permalink
No Mary Lou Williams, no Scrawl, no Crystalized Movements, no Marilyn Crispell...
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:44 (one year ago) Permalink
(xpost) It's click-through and chopped up into 15 x 10 screens--difficult to post unless you spend some time cutting, pasting, and cutting.
― clemenza, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:47 (one year ago) Permalink
No Mary Lou Williams
this was my immediate thought
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:48 (one year ago) Permalink
this is a total hit parade! it's not a niche fan's list, it's the everybody list
I love the sound of that!
― clemenza, Monday, 24 July 2017 18:48 (one year ago) Permalink
I don't! I hate everybody!
― 90 miles an hour (down a dead end thread) (unregistered), Monday, 24 July 2017 18:51 (one year ago) Permalink
150. The RochesThe Roches (Warner Bros., 1979)
149. Alicia KeysSongs In A Minor (J Records, 2001)
148. Terri Lyne CarringtonThe Mosaic Project (Concord Jazz, 2011)
147. Meredith MonkDolmen Music (ECM, 1981)
146. Patty GriffinFlaming Red (A&M, 1998)
145. Oumou SangareMoussolou (Women) (Kartell/World Circuit, 1989)
144. The BreedersLast Splash (4AD/Elektra, 1993)
143. RobynBody Talk (Konichiwa Records, 2010)
142. Iris DeMentMy Life (Warner Bros., 1993)
141. Joanna NewsomYs (Drag City, 2006)
140. Norah JonesCome Away with Me (Blue Note, 2002)
139. The BanglesAll Over the Place (Columbia, 1984)
138. Cocteau TwinsHeaven or Las Vegas (4AD, 1990)
137. Ofra Haza50 Gates Of Wisdom (Yemenite Songs) (Shanachie, 1987)
136. Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono BandYoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band (Apple Records, 1970)
135. The B-52'sThe B-52's (Warner Bros., 1979)
134. SolangeA Seat at the Table (Saint/Columbia 2016)
133. FannyFanny Hill (Reprise, 1972)
132. Shelby LynneI Am Shelby Lynne (Island/Mercury, 2000)
131. Shirley HornI Thought About You — Live At Vine St. (Verve Records, 1987)
130. Teena MarieWild and Peaceful (Motown Records, 1979)
129. Marianne FaithfullBroken English (Island, 1979)
128. Pauline Oliveros, Stuart Dempster, PanaiotisDeep Listening (New Albion, 1989)
127. Sonic YouthSister (SST, 1987)
126. The CarpentersA Song for You (A&M Records, 1972)
125. Fiona AppleTidal (Work Group/Clean Slate/Columbia, 1996)
124. Carly SimonNo Secrets (Elektra, 1972)
123. Cris WilliamsonThe Changer and the Changed: A Record of the Times (Olivia Records, 1975)
122. Siouxsie and the BansheesThe Scream (Polydor, 1978)
121. Joni MitchellHejira (Asylum, 1976)
120. Anita BakerRapture (Elektra, 1986)
119. The SlitsCut (Island Records, 1979)
118. Chaka KhanI Feel for You (Warner Bros., 1984)
117. Joan JettI Love Rock 'n' Roll (Boardwalk, 1981)
116. Macy GrayOn How Life Is (Epic, 1999)
115. La Lupe & Tito PuenteLa Pareja (Fania/Tico Records, 1978)
114. Reba McEntireRumor Has It (MCA, 1990)
113. Aretha FranklinYoung, Gifted and Black (Atlantic Records, 1972)
112. Mercedes SosaMercedes Sosa en Argentina (Universal Distribution/Philips, 1982)
111. Diamanda GalásThe Litanies of Satan (Y, 1982)
110. Miranda LambertPlatinum (RCA Nashville, 2014)
109. Against Me!Transgender Dysphoria Blues (Total Treble, 2014)
108. Gladys Knight and the PipsImagination (Buddah Records, 1973)
107. The Shangri-LasLeader of the Pack (Red Bird Records, 1965)
106. No DoubtTragic Kingdom (Interscope, 1995)
105. Sheila E.The Glamorous Life (Warner Bros., 1984)
104. ESGCome Away With ESG (99 Records, 1983)
103. Umm KulthumEnta Omri (You Are My Life) (Sono, 1964)
102. Alabama ShakesSound & Color (ATO, 2015)
101. EurythmicsTouch (RCA, 1983)
100. Buffy Sainte-MarieIt's My Way! (Vanguard Records, 1964)
99. Taylor SwiftFearless (Big Machine Records, 2008)
98. Bikini KillYeah Yeah Yeah Yeah (Kill Rock Stars, 1993)
97. Mariah CareyDaydream (Columbia Records, 1995)
96. Lil' KimHard Core (Big Beat/Undeas Recordings, 1996)
95. Shakira¿Dónde Están los Ladrones? (Sony, 1998)
94. Sheryl CrowTuesday Night Music Club (A&M, 1993)
93. Britney Spears...Baby One More Time (Jive Records, 1999)
92. Meshell NdegeocelloPeace Beyond Passion (Maverick, 1996)
91. Alison Krauss And Union StationNew Favorite (Rounder, 2001)
90. Barbra StreisandFunny Girl, Broadway Cast Album (Capitol Records, 1964)
89. Shania TwainCome On Over (Mercury Records, 1997)
88. k. d. langIngénue (Sire, 1992)
87. XLos Angeles (Slash/Rhino, 1980)
86. Alice ColtraneJourney in Satchidananda (GRP/Impulse!, 1971)
85. Joan BaezDiamonds & Rust (A&M, 1975)
84. Roberta FlackFirst Take (Atlantic, 1969)
83. Bobbie GentryOde To Billie Joe (Capitol Records, 1967)
82. Laura NyroNew York Tendaberry (Columbia, 1969)
81. Sleater-KinneyDig Me Out (Kill Rock Stars, 1997)
80. Laurie AndersonBig Science (Warner Bros., 1982)
79. PortisheadDummy (Go! Beat, 1994)
78. The Bulgarian State Radio & Television ChoirLe Mystère Des Voix Bulgares (Nonesuch, 1987)
77. AaliyahAaliyah (Blackground/Virgin America 2001)
76. Tammy WynetteStand By Your Man (Epic, 1969)
75. Donna SummerBad Girls (Casablanca, 1979)
74. The RaincoatsThe Raincoats (Rough Trade, 1979)
73. Astrud GilbertoThe Astrud Gilberto Album(Verve Records, 1965)
72. The RunawaysThe Runaways (Mercury, 1976)
71. Salt-N-PepaBlacks' Magic (London, 1990)
70. Stevie NicksBella Donna (Modern, 1981)
69. Cyndi LauperShe's So Unusual (Portrait/Sony 1983)
68. Rosanne CashKing's Record Shop (Columbia, 1987)
67. Sinead O'ConnorI Do Not Want What I Haven't Got (Chrysalis Records, 1990)
66. Miriam MakebaPata Pata (Reprise, 1967)
65. Cassandra WilsonBlue Light 'Til Dawn (Blue Note, 1993)
64. Spice GirlsSpice (Virgin, 1996)
63. MadonnaLike a Virgin (Sire, 1984)
62. Dixie ChicksWide Open Spaces (BMG/Sony, 1998)
61. Destiny's ChildThe Writing's on the Wall (Columbia, 1999)
60. The PretendersPretenders (Sire, 1980)
59. Indigo GirlsIndigo Girls (Epic, 1989)
58. LabelleNightbirds (Epic, 1974)
57. Mary J. BligeWhat's the 411? (Uptown/MCA, 1992)
56. X-Ray SpexGermfree Adolescents (EMI, 1978)
55. The Go-GosBeauty And The Beat (I.R.S., 1981)
54. NicoChelsea Girl (Verve, 1967)
53. Linda RonstadtHeart Like A Wheel (Capitol, 1974)
52. Bonnie RaittNick Of Time (Capitol/EMI, 1989)
51. Sarah VaughanSassy Swings Again (Mercury, 1967)
50. HoleLive Through This (DGC, 1994)
49. Rickie Lee JonesPirates (Warner Bros., 1981)
48. Etta JamesRocks The House (Argo, 1964)
47. Celia CruzSon con Guaguanco (Emusica/Fania, 1966)
46. Emmylou HarrisWrecking Ball (Elektra, 1995)
45. Dusty SpringfieldDusty in Memphis (Atlantic, 1969)
44. HeartDreamboat Annie (Mushroom, 1976)
43. M.I.A.Kala (XL/Interscope, 2007)
42. Ella FitzgeraldElla Fitzgerald Sings the Johnny Mercer Song Book (Verve, 1964)
41. Tracy ChapmanTracy Chapman (Elektra, 1988)
40. The Staple SingersBe Altitude: Respect Yourself (Stax, 1972)
39. Gillian WelchTime (The Revelator) (Acony Records, 2001)
38. OdettaIt's a Mighty World (RCA Victor, 1964)
37. Kate BushHounds Of Love (EMI, 1985)
36. Grace JonesNightclubbing (Island Records, 1981)
35. BlondieParallel Lines (Chrysalis, 1978)
34. Tina TurnerPrivate Dancer (Capitol, 1984)
33. Queen LatifahAll Hail The Queen (Tommy Boy, 1989)
32. BjörkPost (Elektra, 1995)
31. Liz PhairExile In Guyville (Capitol/EMI/Matador, 1993)
30. Adele21 (Columbia/XL, 2011)
29. Alanis MorissetteJagged Little Pill (Maverick, 1995)
28. Nina SimoneNina Simone Sings the Blues (RCA Victor, 1967)
27. Tori AmosLittle Earthquakes (Atlantic, 1992)
26. TLCCrazySexyCool (LaFace, 1994)
25. Ani DifrancoLittle Plastic Castle (Righteous Babe Records, 1998)
24. Loretta LynnCoal Miner's Daughter (Decca, 1970)
23. Aretha FranklinAmazing Grace (Atlantic, 1972)
22. SadeDiamond Life (Sony, 1984)
21. PJ HarveyRid Of Me (Island Records, 1993)
20. The RonettesPresenting the Fabulous Ronettes Featuring Veronica (Philles Records, 1964)
19. SelenaAmor Prohibido (EMI Latin, 1994)
18. Lucinda WilliamsCar Wheels On A Gravel Road (Mercury, 1998)
17. Janet JacksonControl (A&M, 1986)
16. Fleetwood MacRumours (Warner Bros., 1977)
15. Diana Ross and the SupremesWhere Did Our Love Go (Motown, 1964)
14. Whitney HoustonWhitney Houston (Arista, 1985)
13. MadonnaLike a Prayer (Sire, 1989)
12. Erykah BaduBaduizm (Universal, 1997)
11. Dolly PartonCoat Of Many Colors (RCA Records, 1971)
10. Carole KingTapestry (Ode, 1971)
9. Amy WinehouseBack To Black (Island, 2006)
8. Janis JoplinPearl (Columbia, 1971)
7. Patti SmithHorses (Arista, 1975)
6. BeyoncéLemonade (Parkwood/Columbia, 2016)
5. Missy ElliottSupa Dupa Fly (The Goldmind/Elektra, 1997)
4. Aretha FranklinI Never Loved a Man The Way I Loved You (Atlantic, 1967)
3. Nina SimoneI Put A Spell on You (Philips, 1965)
2. Lauryn HillThe Miseducation of Lauryn Hill (Ruffhouse/Columbia, 1998)
1. Joni MitchellBlue (Reprise, 1971)
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 24 July 2017 19:18 (one year ago) Permalink
Most annoying omission, for me: Kate and Anna McGarrigle
Surprised/not surprised to see how quickly Aimee Mann fell out of fashion, too (especially for the NPR crowd).
And I don't want to gripe about every millennial-appealing inclusion, but the relatively high ranking of Amy Winehouse, Adele and even Lemonade is premature.
― some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Monday, 24 July 2017 19:44 (one year ago) Permalink
Let me add, subjectively, the first Mamas and the Papas LP. Even boring old white guy Greil Marcus wrote them out of history in the intro to the Stranded discography, but that'd be on my list.
― clemenza, Monday, 24 July 2017 19:49 (one year ago) Permalink
Anne Power's essay has an insight I'd felt but never been able to articulate:
The Beatles did something important historically. Aretha Franklin did too, but she's more often celebrated as a miracle. (Mea culpa: I've done the same thing within my critical writing, once basing an essay about Franklin around the opening line, "She manifests.")
Because the notion that women "be" still influences the way we think about female artists, they've mostly been canonized as personalities or essences, not makers of things.
I think there's still a good amount of that hanging around the mystique of Karen Dalton, Vashti Bunyan, Judee Sill, Denny and other dark, discouraged folkies who've gotten new recognition in the last 20 years or so, even though it's after 90s pop culture got more used to the idea of women as makers of things. Like, the doomed folkie mystique also applies to Nick Drake, Tim Hardin, Basho, Fahey, but they get talked about as creators as much as tragic figures. Composers even, with the last two.
― Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Monday, 24 July 2017 19:50 (one year ago) Permalink
I think Lemonade placing so high is premature but, in terms of it being the piece where Beyoncé cemented her grasp on distilling a bunch of disparate songs into a singular artistic vision, I don't begrudge its presence on the list, particularly when considered in the context of the visual album and how the music and accompanying visuals combine into a coherent, compelling narrative that has had people buzzing like crazy since it debuted. (It also helps that she has settled into a groove vocally that matches her; she's grown as a practitioner of the art of singing at a pace commensurate with her growth as an auteur.)
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:00 (one year ago) Permalink
The go-to for anyone who doesn't actually rate Björk.
― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:06 (one year ago) Permalink
at first i thought that it was a one-work-per-artist list but it's not, which makes the representative pick for certain artists all the more puzzling. like, i owned and listened to ...baby one more time as a 10-year-old -- but it's just not a good album. it is the embodiment of the good-to-incredible singles + execrable filler formula. i listened to it a million times, but almost every time i would listen to the first three tracks (all singles), skip "soda pop", then restart after "born to make you happy" (which wasn't a single in the us, but was obviously better than anything after it on the tracklisting).
like, i get that we wanna convey how influential britney was, both in general and in that moment in time, but it wasn't because this was a great album. most actual britney spears fans consider it one of her worst.
lists of albums are boring and regressive but otherwise i actually thought this was pretty good. will read the essay later.
― dyl, Monday, 24 July 2017 20:07 (one year ago) Permalink
beyoncé's self-titled is as good as or better than lemonade :\
― dyl, Monday, 24 July 2017 20:08 (one year ago) Permalink
Looks like it was pooled nominations, then a winnowing poll, a la ILM.
― Mungolian Jerryset (bendy), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:11 (one year ago) Permalink
beyoncé's 4 is as good as or better than self-titled or lemonade :\― dyl, Monday, July 24, 2017 1:08 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― dyl, Monday, July 24, 2017 1:08 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― down that brown path (Spottie), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:11 (one year ago) Permalink
― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:12 (one year ago) Permalink
And yet still no room for Carla Bley on the list. And if you're gonna pick just one trans person (Against Me! - really?), how about Wendy Carlos? Programming analog synths in the 70s > writing 4/4 punk rock songs.
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:18 (one year ago) Permalink
I disagree vehemently. There are strong arguments as to why any of Post, Homogenic, or Vespertine would be Bjork's best album and it does her career no disservice to pick any of them for a list like this. It would be even better if both Post and Homogenic appeared, IMO.
The difference between s/t and Lemonade is the story; that is what (IMO) elevates Lemonade, particularly in the context of how many people Beyonce collaborated with across both music and video to create it.
beyoncé's 4 is as good as or better than self-titled or lemonade :\
4 is a decent-enough album but I've been listening to it a lot the past few days and the only songs on it where Beyonce doesn't sound flat-out atrocious are "Countdown", "End of Time", and "Love On Top". The rest of the time, she's a smaller-voiced singer trying to sing huge, sort of like the entirety of Ashanti's career, and it really brings down the album overall.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:20 (one year ago) Permalink
OTM. I've cooled on 4, or, rather less prepared to apologize for the crap songs.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:21 (one year ago) Permalink
Basically, Hollertronix Beyonce is the worst Beyonce and she spent most of her career prior to the s/t in that mode, which is partially why the s/t hits like a truck and why I wouldn't actually have been mad if it had been on this list instead of Lemonade.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:24 (one year ago) Permalink
(I will say that 4 is the first time that sustained Hollertronix Beyonce ever worked for me in the context of an entire album, which is what makes it notable in her solo catalog and why I bought it in the first place, but she's come a loooooooong way as a performer since then.)
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:25 (one year ago) Permalink
DJP, stop being OTM. I'm getting tired of it.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:33 (one year ago) Permalink
btw i always include the bonus tracks when I refer to 4.
tbh i wouldve been fine with all three placing.
― down that brown path (Spottie), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:34 (one year ago) Permalink
Agree that Beyonce needed to be on here. I'm less partial about which album (every one named has great songs; I probably prefer 4 myself, overall), but I just thought that Lemonade placing that high was a little too much like OK Computer topping that Q poll six months after it's release. She's still at that point in her career, though, where each new album can plausibly be called her greatest. We won't know what her best work is for decades yet.
I'm OK with Post, which probably says the exact thing about me that Eric suspects it does. I'm only surprised because I thought Homogenic had overtaken it in many people's affections by now (again, I have no agenda here, as I think both albums are great).
I'm clearly allergic to Britney, but I think I would have eye-rolled less hard if they had gone with one of her clubbier albums (In The Zone, Circus, whatever) rather than the debut. As it stands, NPR now has to live with the fact that they included an album that contains a song called "Email My Heart" on a list of best albums of all time.
― some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:48 (one year ago) Permalink
Lists and lists so there will always be head scratchers on either side of the line, but surprised to see there's no McGarrigles, and no Sandy Denny. But especially no My Bloody Valentine.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 July 2017 21:18 (one year ago) Permalink
(Lists are lists, that should lead.)
no wonder the US is a divided country when this is a liberal/progressive take on this list
― niels, Thursday, August 2, 2018 1:11 AM (five hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the list unquestionably, IMO, and drastically underrates R&B
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 2 August 2018 11:57 (two months ago) Permalink
like i haven't checked but just as an example did any keyshia cole songs make it
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 2 August 2018 12:01 (two months ago) Permalink
most of these seem at least informed by rnb imo:
19. Beyoncé, "Formation" (2016)15. Nicki Minaj, "Super Bass" (2010)12. Solange, "Cranes In The Sky" (2016)11. Janelle Monáe (ft. Big Boi), "Tightrope" (2010)8. Alicia Keys, "Fallin'" (2001)7. Sharon Jones & The Dap-Kings, "100 Days, 100 Nights" (2007)6. Lorde, "Royals" (2013)4. Amy Winehouse, "Back To Black" (2006)3. Beyoncé, "Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It)" (2008)1. M.I.A., "Paper Planes" (2007)
anyway, surely some genres/artists are represented as always, just find it... I dunno what word to use... remarkable maybe, that a liberal/progressive reaction to National Radio's attempt at challenging a male dominated canon would be calling it neo liberalist bullshit
I'm not going to spend time hatereading reddit comments about the list, but I'm sure a lot of people find the very concept of a list with no men offensive
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 12:21 (two months ago) Permalink
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 12:22 (two months ago) Permalink
you show those reddit men you just imagined, niels
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:30 (two months ago) Permalink
you don't think they exist?
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:42 (two months ago) Permalink
What type of brain disease would I need where I get mad at hypothetical Reddit posts that I invent in my head
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:53 (two months ago) Permalink
haha that's a bit rich but I gather you think I'm insane for imagining how a list like this would be received in certain forums?
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:55 (two months ago) Permalink
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 13:56 (two months ago) Permalink
for what it's worth this is the reddit thread
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:06 (two months ago) Permalink
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:06 (two months ago) Permalink
(from last year's list; this year's list doesn't seem to have as much commentary but https://www.reddit.com/r/indieheads/comments/93253b/npr_list_the_200_greatest_songs_by_21st_century/)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:07 (two months ago) Permalink
― how's life, Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:09 (two months ago) Permalink
yeah I was just about to link that but the too reddit didn't read is that the list was received basically how it was received here; T_D types generally don't follow music to this degree
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:10 (two months ago) Permalink
It's an interesting list, but the ranking order is all over the place. When you have stuff like Britney Spears' ...Baby One More Time (which aside from the singles is pretty dire, and one of her worst albums honestly) higher than Young, Gifted and Black by Aretha Franklin, your list can't be all that great.Still, it's refreshing because most other best of albums lists are indeed very male dominated, and even rock-oriented. Whereas there seems to be a lot of diversity in this list.
Still, it's refreshing because most other best of albums lists are indeed very male dominated, and even rock-oriented. Whereas there seems to be a lot of diversity in this list.
Wow, the top voted Reddit comment. These absolute savages. These fucking monsters.
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:12 (two months ago) Permalink
(there's also a /mu/ thread apparently but I'm not clicking it at work)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:15 (two months ago) Permalink
/mu/ is not talking about this right now
But you can read these threads:
Where's theneedledrop?: Why are Fantano's scores still not appearing in the reception section of album articles in Wikipedia?
The only reason people think Birds in the Trap was bad is because of Fantano's opinion. If he gave it a good score everyone on reddit and /mu/ would think it was good. Fuck Anthony Fantano. And fuck mindless drones. Astroworld is going to be AOTY.
He everyone, VIEWSTHONY WHORETANO here, the internet's most desperate music nerd. And it's time for a review of another imexplicably positive review of a terrible SoundCloud rap album because that's what my underaged fanbase wants to hear.
Hi my name is Frank Zappa and my musuic is garbage
Why are there so many pseuds and contrarians on this board? Do they think they're above others for having an inferior taste in music? Help me out here, /mu/.
Post based and redpilled RYM reviews
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:28 (two months ago) Permalink
they were as of two days ago https://i.imgur.com/seSvPqF.png
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:32 (two months ago) Permalink
(google search link because, again, I'm not clicking this at work, so for all I know it could be fawningly positive)
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:33 (two months ago) Permalink
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:36 (two months ago) Permalink
but this is a good time as ever to guess which ILXors have soy face
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 14:41 (two months ago) Permalink
happy to hear the reddit thread is not badstill think it's v weird to describe this list as neo liberal
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 15:13 (two months ago) Permalink
also d40 what's the joke pls
― niels, Thursday, 2 August 2018 15:14 (two months ago) Permalink
xpost it is “weird” and makes zero sense but I would ignore it
― i’m still stanning (morrisp), Thursday, 2 August 2018 15:21 (two months ago) Permalink
discussion piece between 2 of the writer contributors to the list(intro to it below)
As the list took shape, it became impossible not to notice that the songs in this canon share a common backbone. Many of the songs, and more namely the song's creators, owe their catchy, joyous, triumphant, sexy, strong, aching, resilient ethos to black, Latin and Afro Caribbean musical roots. From streaming to radio, the influence of Latin, Caribbean and R&B music is apparent across all modern genres in the new millennium.
To untangle this common thread, NPR Music's Stefanie Fernández and Sidney Madden charted the work of women of color on this list and examined the ways agency and identity have become central in breaking down pop music's barriers.
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:02 (two months ago) Permalink
They followed in the footsteps of those who could not choose: Selena Quintanilla, Gloria Estefan, Jenni Rivera, Celia Cruz, and so many others.
FTR, I interviewed Jenni Rivera once and she said she would never want to record in English. That if she ever did, it would be an album of old doo-wop songs and love ballads like you'd hear on Art Laboe's radio show, but she had zero interest in crossing over to a pop audience.
― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:27 (two months ago) Permalink
Also, both these women are bad, clumsy writers who really could have used an editor to teach them how not to sound like marketing executives.
― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:30 (two months ago) Permalink
and with that
― 5th Ward Weeaboo (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 2 August 2018 16:50 (two months ago) Permalink
probably a very similar one to the sort that would make you get mad at hypothetical ILX posters or movie viewers or readers or music listeners or bacon eaters that you invent in your head
― 16, 35, DCP, Go! (sic), Thursday, 2 August 2018 17:58 (two months ago) Permalink
x-post to Unperson--Fernandez does not sound like a "marketing executive" here :
The mainstreaming and whitewashing of reggaeton, a genre born from working class black Panamanians (like La Atrevida) in the late 1980s and pioneered in the 1990s by listmaker Ivy Queen (No. 60 with "Quiero Bailar"), by white or light-skinned Latin pop artists has facilitated the pop transformation of Afro-Caribbean genres to the point where they are barely recognizable. In the early 2000s, genres shaped and fundamentally conceived from poverty and racism like reggaeton and soca were still dismissed as classless and vulgar; the vestiges of this thinking can still be seen in the perceived vulgarity of Latin trap artists like Bad Bunny and the new wave of reguetoneras like Karol G, Natti Natasha and Anitta who seem to have been left behind by the success of their peers more palatable to the American market.
She also acknowledges that "There are no reggae or soca songs on the list..."
― curmudgeon, Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:16 (two months ago) Permalink
Fine, but it's still bad and clumsy writing, based on phony premises, starting (in the excerpt you quoted) with the fact that Ivy Queen is herself light-skinned. We could also talk about the fact that Gloria Estefan had multiple Top 40 English-language hits, and she and her husband Emilio managed Shakira's move into pop. These writers are painting a portrait of victimization and marginalization that just doesn't match the facts. I mean, when you're gonna call Gloria fucking Estefan someone who couldn't choose her own career moves, you really need to stop and rethink. And you know this stuff, probably even better than I do.
― grawlix (unperson), Thursday, 2 August 2018 18:40 (two months ago) Permalink
― niels, Thursday, August 2, 2018 10:14 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
the idea that that selection somehow adequately represents or even comprehends R&B's musical contributions this decade is laughable
also you missed Jazmine Sullivan, a rare counterexample to what i'm actually talking about
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Thursday, 2 August 2018 21:58 (two months ago) Permalink
I didn't say that selection "adequately represents" 21st century R&B
you wrote that "the list unquestionably, IMO, and drastically underrates R&B" and I wanted to make the point that the top 20 was full of R&B-informed songs (I didn't "miss" Sullivan, she's at #137 and I was quoting the top 20)
but I'm no expert on contemporary R&B would love to see your list of 20 representative tracks
― niels, Friday, 3 August 2018 06:35 (two months ago) Permalink
Ok, the idea that it’s noteworthy a lot of music would be “r&b-informed” is basically useless—pop music as a whole is r&b infomed
But this canon clearly pushes against the r&b canon, or treats it w oblivious disdain & there’s no real analysis of what’s lost or missing
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 3 August 2018 08:59 (two months ago) Permalink
that was indeed carefully phrased, I'd say Sharon Jones and Amy Winehouse is straight up (revivalist) rhythm and blues, stuff like Solange, Beyoncé and Alicia Keys comfortably contemporary R&B
list has Ciara, King, Jhene Aiko, Tweet, Jill Scott, Kali Uchis, India Arie, Blu Cantrell, Sza but maybe you feel it's missing Cassie, Dawn Richard, Kehlani, Kelela, Tinashe?
Anyway I'm really not looking for an argument here, I just thought the criticism seemed perhaps a bit out of proportion with the offensiveness of the list. I think it'd be great if you would share your idea for a 21st century female rnb canon, maybe there isn't really one?
― niels, Friday, 3 August 2018 11:25 (two months ago) Permalink
One last time on my pet peeve--
Sorry Faye-Ann Lyons, you don't rate
plus no afropop/afrobeats (programmed beat African music) artists-- Sorry Yemi Alade, you don't rate.
― curmudgeon, Friday, 3 August 2018 12:41 (two months ago) Permalink
― niels, Friday, August 3, 2018 6:25 AM (ten hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i have to provide my own canon to argue this ignores large portions of the actual R&B canon?
how about destiny's child, brandy, missy, amerie, keyshia cole, mariah carey, mary j blige, erykah badu, aaliyah, keri hilson, jennifer hudson, janet, fantasia, teedra moses, ashanti ... im sure im missing people
the interpretation of "R&B" as portrayed by the list feels limited by critical acclaim & a lack of investment in / immersion in R&B discourse imo...saying "but kali uchis" is a strike against yr point. even your examples of who should have made it hews very close to crit-friendly singing fare (surprised you didn't say FKA twigs?) ignoring the post-church music soul/R&B wing in favor of the kind of stuff that appeals to critics & brits lol
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 3 August 2018 21:47 (two months ago) Permalink
im not counting their 'premiered in the 00s' excused since they break it arbitrarily & because the genre is literally driven by women in their 30s/40s consumer wise so it seems absurd
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Friday, 3 August 2018 21:48 (two months ago) Permalink
K Michelle too, surely? Or are you only talking 00’s here?
― breastcrawl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:42 (two months ago) Permalink
Not looking at the list I know it’s missing Chavela Vargas and therefore not worth my time.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:50 (two months ago) Permalink
Kudos for Selena in the top 20 though if that’s the list that was copy pasted above.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:51 (two months ago) Permalink
Actually that list is pretty decent.
Still no Chavela Vargas makes me sad. I suspect it’s also missing many afro+latin singers but that could be a separate list.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:54 (two months ago) Permalink
1000% k Michelle
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:02 (two months ago) Permalink
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:03 (two months ago) Permalink
“Motivation” by kelly Rowland >>>>
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:12 (two months ago) Permalink
― breastcrawl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:20 (two months ago) Permalink
amerie and fka both on the listyou don't have to argue anything, I accept that this list is missing a lot of rnb I just want to know what it is because I like the genremotivation is definitely missing!
― niels, Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:22 (two months ago) Permalink
I missed Amerie (I don’t consider Fka r&b)
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:35 (two months ago) Permalink
reggaeton is easily more popular than any other form of latin music in america right now
― dyl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 02:04 (two months ago) Permalink
it's great to see I'm With Her finally getting the credit they deserve.
― billstevejim, Saturday, 4 August 2018 02:36 (two months ago) Permalink